How red of a flag is this?

January 25, 2012

Hi friends,

I've been with my new boyfriend ~2 months now, and things are great, for the most part. A situation happened a little while ago which has had me confused and I can't get it out of my mind, so I want to get some other perspective on it.

Boyfriend and I have a mutual friend, a very pretty girl, who will henceforth be known as prettygirl. Soon after we got together, boyfriend told me that he had been attracted to her when they first met, before finding out she was engaged (she's now married). Okay, whatever. I don't mind that much, because he met her before he met me.

We got in a fight a few weeks ago about a careless comment he had made in front of our friends (including prettygirl) that I thought was disrespectful. We talked about it later that night, and at one point, he said something along the lines of, "You're so uptight, why can't you be cool like [prettygirl], she laughed at my comment and thought it was funny."

I called him out on it, saying it was terrible for him to compare me to another female, especially one he had admitted to being attracted to, and he immediately agreed and apologized. So in that sense it's not an issue, he knows it was wrong. But I'm wondering, what sort of subconscious things are going on in his head for him to think something like that, to measure me negatively against another woman? In my most insecure moments, I feel like he's only with me because he couldn't get her.

January 25, 2012

Why he did was classic shaming. It is a form of abuse (not abuse in the "you are bleeding because your teeth got knocked out and he's a vicious animal" sense.)

Check out shaming and other negative communication patterns.

Usually when one partner has those tendencies, the other one has it too.

If PG wasn't there, he might've compared you to someone else that laughed at his joke to prove his point using the shaming technique.

It's a pretty common communication pattern (I myself am not immune, but I try to monitor what I say and address behaviour instead of "you are really stupid", "that behaviour was crossing a line for me/was unacceptable/sometimes I say "disgusting.")

January 25, 2012

Yeah, that's messed up. Esp considering if it was a few weeks ago, you'd only been dating like a month! Honestly this early in, even a "small" red flag should give you mega pause, this is the time when most people are on their best behavior. If you are noticing negative things now, expect them to grow and grow the more comfortable he feels in the relationship. What he said was extremely rude and meant to hurt.

January 25, 2012

He did something careless. Its not good, but its not a red flag taken as just one incident imo.

Dont over complicate your relationship by trying to second guess whats going on inside his subconcious. I hate it when gfs do that because they usually give it the negative spin in their minds...which is what you are doing. When you get a pattern of negative behaviour then start worrying whats going on in his head.

As for him wanting prettygirl, yeah he did, that does not mean you're a 2nd rate substitute by any means. Probably everyone on this board has missed out on someone they thought was awesome at some point. There was post here recently on 'your ideal partner', with lots of posts on hot celebs, that people will never get someone like, doesnt mean they should chuck in the towel or will never fall crazy in love with someone different. Unfortunately some people will compare aspects of their current bf/gf to exs, its human nature, just as long as it doesn't undermine their current partner. For you so far its a 1 off.

January 25, 2012

'We talked about it later that night'. I bet you mean that 'you' brought this up later. Not knowing what triggered this doesn't justify his remark but it might be in response to being scolded like a child. Some women have this patronizing tone about needing to discuss 'whatever'. What it really means is 'I talk'... and you see the error of your ways and agree with me.

10 to 1 that after you 'discussed this' you didn't agree with his opinion on the subject because you had no intention of 'discussing' anything but imposing your view (what he sees as uptight) on him.

Again, this doesn't justify his remark but learn to bring up issues that really matter in the scheme of the universe and not the petty stuff.

Oh boys and thinking that they shouldn't have to talk about issues or hear us talk about them. Hey listen, females want to talk and females are emotional. Men are apathetic about emotional stuff by nature. Women are not. If your woman starts acting apathetic towards issues with you that is a big waving red flag that she doesn't give a damn about you. At all. Is that really what you want?

Sure you don't like dealing with the emotional side of women. Ya know what, if you dislike it that much stop dating women. Go celibate or go gay. There are plenty of things that men do that we don't always understand as well. But most women are smart enough to realize that men will be men and we deal accordingly.

January 25, 2012

"You're so uptight, why can't you be cool like [prettygirl], she laughed at my comment and thought it was funny."

He seeks approval for his disrespectful comment and undermines your disapproval by making you jealous. It's childish and yes, it is a red flag.

I called him out on it, saying it was terrible for him to compare me to another female, especially one he had admitted to being attracted to, and he immediately agreed and apologized.

That's good! I would get over it if I were you.

But I'm wondering, what sort of subconscious things are going on in his head for him to think something like that, to measure me negatively against another woman?

He is insecure and wants to make you jealous to feel morein control over you. Don't react and he will stop. I know, you care about the red flag...well, guess what, everybody has some crap in their character, the question is what kind of crap can you live with. Don't get into fights with him - fights kill relationships.

In my most insecure moments, I feel like he's only with me because he couldn't get her.

His purpose is to make you feel insecure because he is insecure. Be strong. He might be just brutally honest or he might be a passive-aggressive jerk. You'll find out soon. You do your part and be a good, respectful GF but also show some self-respect. Present your hurt feelings in a calm, mature manner and without too many words or painful criticism. If you play your part well, he will either have to be a good BF or he will show you that he's an ass, in which case you will know what to do.

January 25, 2012

Actually the above poster is 100% correct about the emotionality of women and the verbal nature of us.

A woman who is curiosly silent on emotional matters is the #1 warning sign that she is about to leave or cheating on you. In fact, it is often OM she'll nail because "he listens."

Her talking about her feelings to be heard is often interpreted by men as "controlling behaviour" and often (younger males especially) will respond in kind, thus destroying excellent chances to connect with their partner.

It is a woman's duty to share her feelings without harshness and a man's to make the best effort to consider what she is saying.

Otherwise what ensues is madness lol.

January 25, 2012

"You're so uptight, why can't you be cool like [prettygirl], she laughed at my comment and thought it was funny."

He seeks approval for his disrespectful comment and undermines your disapproval by making you jealous. It's childish and yes, it is a red flag.

I called him out on it, saying it was terrible for him to compare me to another female, especially one he had admitted to being attracted to, and he immediately agreed and apologized.

That's good! I would get over it if I were you.

But I'm wondering, what sort of subconscious things are going on in his head for him to think something like that, to measure me negatively against another woman?

He is insecure and wants to make you jealous to feel morein control over you. Don't react and he will stop. I know, you care about the red flag...well, guess what, everybody has some crap in their character, the question is what kind of crap can you live with. Don't get into fights with him - fights kill relationships.

In my most insecure moments, I feel like he's only with me because he couldn't get her.

His purpose is to make you feel insecure because he is insecure. Be strong. He might be just brutally honest or he might be a passive-aggressive jerk. You'll find out soon. You do your part and be a good, respectful GF but also show some self-respect. Present your hurt feelings in a calm, mature manner and without too many words or painful criticism. If you play your part well, he will either have to be a good BF or he will show you that he's an ass, in which case you will know what to do.

January 25, 2012

Hi friends,

Hello friend.

I've been with my new boyfriend ~2 months now' date=' and things are great, for the most part. A situation happened a little while ago which has had me confused and I can't get it out of my mind, so I want to get some other perspective on it. [/quote']

I'm very wise and would enjoy sharing my perspective with you if only to entertain.

Boyfriend and I have a mutual friend' date=' a very pretty girl, who will henceforth be known as prettygirl. Soon after we got together, boyfriend told me that he had been attracted to her when they first met, before finding out she was engaged (she's now married). Okay, whatever. I don't mind that much, because he met her before he met me. [/quote']

He's kind of a moron to say this to a girl he's dating. I don't think anythings wrong with finding your gf's pretty friends attractive or having wanted dating them. To flat out right and say it. I don't believe in red flags. I just believe in the law of attraction. There would be a good chance a girl telling me my guy friend is very attractive and she wants to date him would make me lose attraction in her.

We got in a fight a few weeks ago about a careless comment he had made in front of our friends (including prettygirl) that I thought was disrespectful. We talked about it later that night' date=' and at one point, he said something along the lines of, "You're so uptight, why can't you be cool like [prettygirl'], she laughed at my comment and thought it was funny."

What did he say. Regardless he's really laying it on think with this girl. You obviously still like him... but why?

Maybe give him one last chance haha.

I called him out on it' date=' saying it was terrible for him to compare me to another female, especially one he had admitted to being attracted to, and he immediately agreed and apologized. So in that sense it's not an issue, he knows it was wrong. But I'm wondering, what sort of subconscious things are going on in his head for him to think something like that, to measure me negatively against another woman? In my most insecure moments, I feel like he's only with me because he couldn't get her.[/quote']

Don't worry about his subconcsious this guy is actively bringing up this girl every chance he gets. First to let you know he finds her pretty and now to wish you were more like her... His only saving grace was admitting he was wrong in those respects. You seem to be giving him another chance. I'd question yourself if you don't lose respect and attraction for him if he keeps this up... not really a red flag issue... this is an issue... I mean unless the red flag is expecting more of this crap.

Why he did was classic shaming. It is a form of abuse (not abuse in the "you are bleeding because your teeth got knocked out and he's a vicious animal" sense.)

Check out shaming and other negative communication patterns.

Usually when one partner has those tendencies, the other one has it too.

If PG wasn't there, he might've compared you to someone else that laughed at his joke to prove his point using the shaming technique.

It's a pretty common communication pattern (I myself am not immune, but I try to monitor what I say and address behaviour instead of "you are really stupid", "that behaviour was crossing a line for me/was unacceptable/sometimes I say "disgusting.")

I read that book you told me too a while back.

But still this is making me think of the movie drag me to hell. The old woman was like "you sham me!"

Oh boys and thinking that they shouldn't have to talk about issues or hear us talk about them. Hey listen, females want to talk and females are emotional. Men are apathetic about emotional stuff by nature. Women are not. If your woman starts acting apathetic towards issues with you that is a big waving red flag that she doesn't give a damn about you. At all. Is that really what you want?

Sure you don't like dealing with the emotional side of women. Ya know what, if you dislike it that much stop dating women. Go celibate or go gay. There are plenty of things that men do that we don't always understand as well. But most women are smart enough to realize that men will be men and we deal accordingly.

We have emotions just like women we just think its a pain in the ass to talk about.

Also try to have a tinge less anger in your posts or we'll have to spank you.

His purpose is to make you feel insecure because he is insecure. Be strong. He might be just brutally honest or he might be a passive-aggressive jerk. You'll find out soon. You do your part and be a good, respectful GF but also show some self-respect. Present your hurt feelings in a calm, mature manner and without too many words or painful criticism. If you play your part well, he will either have to be a good BF or he will show you that he's an ass, in which case you will know what to do.

Time will tell.

January 25, 2012

Well, of course there are but everyone, including all men have particular and peculiar sensitivities. If one decides they their partner is repeatedly making a 'big deal out of nothing and would they just stop it,' then they can count on them eventually finding a partner that does care about their 'nothing.'

Typically, anyhow.

Cleanliness standards are one of those broad-ranging, funny things where he might want the house 'clean and dust-free' and she might be quite content with it 'tidy.' She acts like she doesn't care about it and he heavily values it, badda boom badda bing... Conflict.

How that conflict is handled can grow into other parts of the relationship etc. He misconstrues it as 'laziness and slovenliness' she says he's being an 'uptight prick' and shares her 'other evidence' of that. No one is 'right' and everyone loses.

January 25, 2012

I see this another way. If he is saying youre uptight in passing, that might be a big incompatibility issue that will rear its ugly head soon. Has he said that before? If he thinks youre uptight, theres your red flag, not that hes comparing you to her. You might want to explore why he thinks youre uptight.

January 25, 2012

Yeah, I'd say he is with you because he couldn't get w PrettyGirl. Someone had to say this.

January 25, 2012

'We talked about it later that night'. I bet you mean that 'you' brought this up later. Not knowing what triggered this doesn't justify his remark but it might be in response to being scolded like a child. Some women have this patronizing tone about needing to discuss 'whatever'. What it really means is 'I talk'... and you see the error of your ways and agree with me.

10 to 1 that after you 'discussed this' you didn't agree with his opinion on the subject because you had no intention of 'discussing' anything but imposing your view (what he sees as uptight) on him.

Again, this doesn't justify his remark but learn to bring up issues that really matter in the scheme of the universe and not the petty stuff.

Man, this guy is good. If he writes a book on dating I can see it being a bestseller.

Incidentally, I think the OP should just drop it. He apologized so she should let it go. If she keeps thinking about it she will be more insecure and it will damage the relationship.

January 25, 2012

Incidentally, I think the OP should just drop it. He apologized so she should let it go. If she keeps thinking about it she will be more insecure and it will damage the relationship.

Okay, this is actually a very good point.

OP, you need to just decide if you are going to be okay with this incident or not. If you are going to dwell on it or it's going to be in the back of your mind when you guys are around prettygirl, etc, then you need to move on. If you can accept he meant his apology and that it was a one-off dumb comment, then carry on and let it go. You know him better than we do.

January 25, 2012

Considering the very recent trauma suffered, outlined in this thread from October, and the reality of that trauma resulting from the actions of a person whom was a five-year lover and former fiance, perhaps things need a lighter touch and slower pace. I offer this perspective because of this:

But I'm wondering, what sort of subconscious things are going on in his head for him to think something like that, to measure me negatively against another woman? In my most insecure moments, I feel like he's only with me because he couldn't get her.

Boundaries are good. Communicating them is good. You may still be experiencing residual effects from your most recent past relationship and its aftermath which could be affecting your perspective. There may be 'hair triggers'. That's OK. It's part of the process of moving on.

What was the 'careless comment'?

Also, what is your opinion of his friends?

January 25, 2012

I see this another way. If he is saying youre uptight in passing, that might be a big incompatibility issue that will rear its ugly head soon. Has he said that before? If he thinks youre uptight, theres your red flag, not that hes comparing you to her. You might want to explore why he thinks youre uptight.

Hm... interesting point.

Yeah, I'd say he is with you because he couldn't get w PrettyGirl. Someone had to say this.

Whileyou're at it, stay helpful and go get the gun for her. Oh, and be so kind to load it, too.

OP, what was the disrespectful thing he said in front of his friends?

January 25, 2012

Oh boys and thinking that they shouldn't have to talk about issues or hear us talk about them. Hey listen, females want to talk and females are emotional. Men are apathetic about emotional stuff by nature. Women are not. If your woman starts acting apathetic towards issues with you that is a big waving red flag that she doesn't give a damn about you. At all. Is that really what you want?

If we boys are "apathetic by nature", why are you girls are so keen to unload your emotional diarrhea on us? It's not like were are paying attention to what you're saying. It just goes in one ear and comes out of the other! So you are not even making any sense...but being an emotional/irrational female creature, I guess you are not supposed to

Sure you don't like dealing with the emotional side of women. Ya know what, if you dislike it that much stop dating women. Go celibate or go gay.

Actually, gays tend to be more emotional and sensitive than us apathetic straight guys. If you want a boyfriend who will appreciate your emotional side, maybe you should do the whole sex change thing and start dating a gay man!

January 25, 2012

I agree with Eddie. Him thinking you're uptight is a way bigger issue than his comparing you to another girl.

Especially given how uptightly you've responded to being compared to another girl

Suggest you reward his apology for comparing you with some sort of promise/commitment to be less uptight about things, if you really want him to appreciate you and for things to work out.

January 25, 2012

If we boys are "apathetic by nature", why are you girls are so keen to unload your emotional diarrhea on us? It's not like were are paying attention to what you're saying. It just goes in one ear and comes out of the other!

:laugh:

January 25, 2012

If we boys are "apathetic by nature", why are you girls are so keen to unload your emotional diarrhea on us? It's not like were are paying attention to what you're saying. It just goes in one ear and comes out of the other! So you are not even making any sense...but being an emotional/irrational female creature, I guess you are not supposed to

In case you were seriously asking why this oddity exists:

1. women are very oxytocin-receptive creatures. Men have it too, but they are sensitive to cortisol and testosterone. it makes you quicker to react and protect you young, woman, village etc.

2. Women are optimized for child-bearing and mate attraction. Part of that is mating with a male who will protect us and our young during vulnerable times (i.e. pregnancy).

3. to achieve this optimally, the woman has to have the emotional drivers to stay as close to the man as necessary. any time she feels insecure about her situation, she will test his responsiveness.

4. our oxytocin levels raise significantly through sharing and bonding behaviours such as touch etc. but verbal is very much a biggie for an instant raise. when a guy listens without judgment or criticism, her oxytocin levels spike. if he tries to shut her down, they falter, sharply. when they do, she will most often try to raise them up immediately again by getting him to listen. hello...argument.

if a guy is smart, he'll set some communication boundaries with a spunky gf (i.e. no shaming, name-calling, yelling) and listen to her then get laid because she'll feel "close" with him. if he is one super-smart cookie then he will thank her for sharing with him the things that are troubling her and show interest in the positive things she shares. She will actually rant to him considerably over time because her oxy levels will be fairly consistent when she feels secure with him.

this doesn't mean become her 'bitch' or let her push you around. it means accepting the fact that she is human with a different set of needs then your own. a lot of times we are mystified by the stuff guys do. (Especially some of the stuff they think that they can get away with.)

in a relationship, however, one cannot expect the accommodating to be all one way.

Many studies have been done comparing the logic and reasoning abilities of both genders. Both have been shown to be on par. We just prioritize things differently. We are more similar than anything.

January 25, 2012

I see two things here: 1) you are feeling insecure about PG because, he, like a doe doe told you he wanted her. Your feelings are valid. 2) he devalued your feeliings by calling you uptight.

Your feelings are totally valid, but you need to sit him down and tell him exactly how you are feeling in a non-confrontational manner. Let him know that telling you he wanted to date her has brought up feelings of insecurity about how he feels about you. It makes you wonder if he is always going to long for her while he is with you or has he gotten over it. Then tell him that calling you uptight devalued your feelings. Don't be accusatory, just merely point out why you reacted the way you did because he may not be aware he set it up by telling you he was attracted to her. Keep it about what he told you and don't make it about women in general because then you will appear uptight. Once you give him the info, the ball is in his court. Give him a honest chance to redeem himself. If he devalues your feelings again after knowing how you feel, THEN view it as a red flag.

With that said, you need to really work on getting over this insecurity. Yes, your feelings are valid, but why let it devalue who you are as a person. Think of yourself as the fabulous person you are and don't jump to the negative and put yourself down. So what he was attracted to her; he is with you now and that means he finds you attractive too! See the difference here? Then go about being YOU and start enjoying your life.

January 25, 2012

Don't take it to heart. I did the same thing to an ex once without thinking. I said "so and so treats his girlfriend this way, why can't you be like that?" It was stupid and immature but it was said out of hurt to something he had done.

I wouldn't hold it against your ex or worry about it.

January 25, 2012

In case you were seriously asking why this oddity exists:

1. women are very oxytocin-receptive creatures. Men have it too, but they are sensitive to cortisol and testosterone. it makes you quicker to react and protect you young, woman, village etc.

2. Women are optimized for child-bearing and mate attraction. Part of that is mating with a male who will protect us and our young during vulnerable times (i.e. pregnancy).

3. to achieve this optimally, the woman has to have the emotional drivers to stay as close to the man as necessary. any time she feels insecure about her situation, she will test his responsiveness.

4. our oxytocin levels raise significantly through sharing and bonding behaviours such as touch etc. but verbal is very much a biggie for an instant raise. when a guy listens without judgment or criticism, her oxytocin levels spike. if he tries to shut her down, they falter, sharply. when they do, she will most often try to raise them up immediately again by getting him to listen. hello...argument.

if a guy is smart, he'll set some communication boundaries with a spunky gf (i.e. no shaming, name-calling, yelling) and listen to her then get laid because she'll feel "close" with him. if he is one super-smart cookie then he will thank her for sharing with him the things that are troubling her and show interest in the positive things she shares. She will actually rant to him considerably over time because her oxy levels will be fairly consistent when she feels secure with him.

this doesn't mean become her 'bitch' or let her push you around. it means accepting the fact that she is human with a different set of needs then your own. a lot of times we are mystified by the stuff guys do. (Especially some of the stuff they think that they can get away with.)

in a relationship, however, one cannot expect the accommodating to be all one way.

Many studies have been done comparing the logic and reasoning abilities of both genders. Both have been shown to be on par. We just prioritize things differently. We are more similar than anything.

Science nerd to science nerd. I love you

January 25, 2012

OP, a few things:

1.) Technically, if he was into prettygirl and didn't get her, it's the same as any girl he was into that didn't want to date him/didn't work out. Yes, he's only still available to date you because those circumstances did not work out, and some of them he wished would work out. There's no way to tell -- from this anecdote -- whether he still carries a torch for PG that would be an issue. So, yes, he's only with you because he couldn't get her. . . but that's just a matter of life and timing, just as you're only with him because your other relationships or crushes didn't work out.

2.) The shaming aspect of the anecdote was a problem, but if he copped to it and got where he was wrong and apologized, I'd let it drop. If the comparison to PG or ANYONE else continues, or there is more shaming even without name-dropping PG, then that's by far the redder flag.

3.) The fact that he TOLD you he thought PG was attractive probably is a good sign. Either that or he's a total jerk. But it likely means he's well over it.

All in all, I wouldn't let it get in your head if things are otherwise good. Depends, of course, on what the insulting comment and such was and what his overall character is like, which I can't get a sense of at all from this post.

January 25, 2012

Science nerd to science nerd. I love you

ha ha, my year's goal is to get into Neuroscience at U of C, I can't help myself.

If you love some brain science, The Brain that Changes Itself is one of my faves.

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