FitChick Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 I think most of these problems could be avoided by marrying the man, then waiting five years before getting pregnant. By then the red flags should be waving, if any are to be waved. Too many women try to hold onto a man by getting pregnant when in actuality it drives them away.
Feelsgoodman Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 Blame the victim much? The only real victims in these situations are the kids. They had no choice when their moms decided to conceive them with deadbeats/drug addicts/criminals.
Woggle Posted January 24, 2012 Posted January 24, 2012 If I were still single I would not say that single mothers were a dealbreaker but it would be a red flag and I would have to dig deeper. It would all depend on why she was a single mother because those issues that lead to those circumstances would not go away when we were dating.
Author misssmartypants Posted January 24, 2012 Author Posted January 24, 2012 How would you all LIKE to see me and other single moms "take responsibility"? Not dating ever (I've been single aside from casual dating for six years) Supporting my kids (I do that, no state help, no child support) Wearing a scarlet letter( how about M )
Author misssmartypants Posted January 24, 2012 Author Posted January 24, 2012 I don't want just casual dating. And this thread wasn't even about being a single mother. It was about the apparent quality of the men in my area. I am aware that there are many guys who would just rather not date a woman with kids. But I don't need the judgment. Looking back , yeah there were things that should have told me he was bad news. It's easy to look back and see all the clues fall into place. Why does that mean I'm a bad person, unworthy of being loved?
Feelsgoodman Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 How would you all LIKE to see me and other single moms "take responsibility"? 1. Stop whining. 2. Change the subject line of this thread from 'They all suck' to 'I suck'. As other posters said, blaming men for your self-orchestrated predicament is hugely unattractive. You are a victim of your own bad judgment first and foremost.
Author misssmartypants Posted January 25, 2012 Author Posted January 25, 2012 You should never settle for not being loved. You're value is never less that that of anyone else. Yet...get rid of the baggage as in 'They All Suck' 'Then' you can advance directly to 'Go'. Start fresh. Be positive. There's a nice guy out there for you. Smile. My gal is the best catch I ever made and is a single mother. What? Isn't starting fresh the point of dating? The premis of the post was that I can't even be introduced to a non- asshat. How is being disappointed all part of why I'm a single mom? I didn't bring all this up other than to say I won't date an irresponsible man and that I dont get how my irresponsible ex can find romance when I can't.
somedude81 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 I think most of these problems could be avoided by marrying the man, then waiting five years before getting pregnant. By then the red flags should be waving, if any are to be waved. Very good advice. Unless you are like 35 and haven't had your first child, there is no need to hurry. Too many women try to hold onto a man by getting pregnant when in actuality it drives them away. I've never understood why some women do that. Some form of blackmail?
iris219 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 What? Isn't starting fresh the point of dating? The premis of the post was that I can't even be introduced to a non- asshat. How is being disappointed all part of why I'm a single mom? I didn't bring all this up other than to say I won't date an irresponsible man and that I dont get how my irresponsible ex can find romance when I can't. If you're over 30, and I assume you are, it's the age group. There are simply fewer quality men (and women) left. So, yes, many of the ones left suck. I've found the divorced ones are more promising; the never married ones are often undateable. Your ex found someone because it's slim pickins and his GF was probably in the same frustrating situation you are now. Not everyone has the same standards, so being irresponsible isn't a dealbreaker for her, especially when there are so few men out there.
soserious1 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 How would you all LIKE to see me and other single moms "take responsibility"? Not dating ever (I've been single aside from casual dating for six years) Supporting my kids (I do that, no state help, no child support) Wearing a scarlet letter( how about M ) You're only earning 40K a year,instead of thinking about dating, why not focus on building your earning power? you're going to need the money to put those kids through college.
soserious1 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 What? Isn't starting fresh the point of dating? The premis of the post was that I can't even be introduced to a non- asshat. How is being disappointed all part of why I'm a single mom? I didn't bring all this up other than to say I won't date an irresponsible man and that I dont get how my irresponsible ex can find romance when I can't. That's easy to answer.. your ex found "romance" for 2 reasons.. he's not lugging three children & all the work,worry & expense that comes with that, he's also managed to find himself a female loser of poor moral character, who will harbor him & help him to avoid his obligation to care for his kids. Seriously, why would you envy that romance?
Author misssmartypants Posted January 25, 2012 Author Posted January 25, 2012 I'm thirty. I'm a teacher I work with special needs kids. I have three sons. My oldest is 13 my youngest is 5. I was married when I was young and nieve. I wished up, got out and got tough. Now the rest of my life is in order I've been dating. Or attempting to. I am frustrated with it. I meet charming men who want to stay entirely casual or turn out to be living with their parents or otherwise not suitable. I do not allow men I go on dates with to come to my home or be around my kids. I don't understand why I'm the one being attacked.
Frank13 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 And yet . . . these guys. They just . . . suck. Unemployed. Don't visit their kids but want to know all about mine. Live with their parents. Are broke, but wont go out with me until they can pay for everything. I bet if the guys spent time with their kids and weren't interested in yours, and went out with you and let you pay, you would be complaining about that too. Not interested in your kids and too cheap to pay when you go out is what you would be saying.
Author misssmartypants Posted January 25, 2012 Author Posted January 25, 2012 You're only earning 40K a year,instead of thinking about dating, why not focus on building your earning power? you're going to need the money to put those kids through college. I'm a teacher. I make way above the average for my community.
soserious1 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 I'm a teacher. I make way above the average for my community. I'm not trying to give you a bad time here but you need to consider how you're going to get 3 kids through college & manage to fund your own retirement..
Author misssmartypants Posted January 25, 2012 Author Posted January 25, 2012 I'm not trying to give you a bad time here but you need to consider how you're going to get 3 kids through college & manage to fund your own retirement.. It's called KPRS. your welcome to look it up. I wasn't aware that teaching was an irresponsible profession. Like band drummer. Or freelance writing.
soserious1 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 I'm thirty. I'm a teacher I work with special needs kids. I have three sons. My oldest is 13 my youngest is 5. I was married when I was young and nieve. I wished up, got out and got tough. Now the rest of my life is in order I've been dating. Or attempting to. I am frustrated with it. I meet charming men who want to stay entirely casual or turn out to be living with their parents or otherwise not suitable. I do not allow men I go on dates with to come to my home or be around my kids. I don't understand why I'm the one being attacked. In 13 short years your youngest will be 18 & you will only be 43 yrs old, why not focus on your kids & building your savings? Worry about serious relationship building later?
dreamingoftigers Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 The only real victims in these situations are the kids. They had no choice when their moms decided to conceive them with deadbeats/drug addicts/criminals. I didn't conceive child with a deadbeat/drug addict/criminal. I conceived a chil with a man who had a bright future that I created a stable home with. His choices changed that, not who I was or who I had my child with. Virtually everyone around me was very impressed with him and his nature etc. (except for my father who is a classic NPD case who literally can't stand ANYONE, except for my mother, periodically.) There was quite a bit of praise for my choice of mate and quite a bit of shock over the results. We were married 3 years when I got pregnant.
Woggle Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 If a woman had one bad man or bad marriage that is one thing but you see these women who get involved with the wrong men over and over again and after a while they become the common denominator. The same goes for men as well. I had one awful marriage and I made a much better choice the second time around. I didn't keep dating women like my ex over and over again wondering why I can't find somebody good.
soserious1 Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 It's called KPRS. your welcome to look it up. I wasn't aware that teaching was an irresponsible profession. Like band drummer. Or freelance writing. No, teaching isn't an "irresponsible profession" trouble is that you've got 3 kids and just one 40K per year income coming into the house, instead of 2. One other thought, you can set all the requirements you want when it comes to dating, you can decide you want a certain type of man, trouble is they also have the right to decide that they don't want you.
dreamingoftigers Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 1. Stop whining. 2. Change the subject line of this thread from 'They all suck' to 'I suck'. As other posters said, blaming men for your self-orchestrated predicament is hugely unattractive. You are a victim of your own bad judgment first and foremost. Now that she has good enough judgment to have left the loser behind, taken the strength to raise three children on her own without help and not subject her children to a series of loser step-fathers, she has shown that she has 'earned' her good judgment through life experience. Therefore she can now see that these other men 'suck.' Thread makes sense to me.
dreamingoftigers Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 If a woman had one bad man or bad marriage that is one thing but you see these women who get involved with the wrong men over and over again and after a while they become the common denominator. The same goes for men as well. I had one awful marriage and I made a much better choice the second time around. I didn't keep dating women like my ex over and over again wondering why I can't find somebody good. There's no telling how much one learned from a past relationship circumstance without getting to know them either. I wish more guys would stop chasing younger single women that have options coming out their ears, getting obviously rejected simply because of supply and demand. Complaining about how women have these "sky-high, off the wall" expectations, expecting this "perfect mate girl" with no baggage to automatically appear for them etc. Instead of just finding a woman with a similar amount of baggage, similar in age, more understanding and a better long -term potential. There would be many happier men and women if this were the case. That sounds heavily like man-bashing, but I swear it isn't and I am not sure how to better articulate it.
ascendotum Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 I think many women choose their partners based on emotion and chemistry. I think that this is naturally our "default" way of thinking about love and romance. Basing these choices on emotion and chemistry can create some of the most passionate, exciting romantic and sexual experiences of our lives. On the flip side, basing these choices on emotion and chemistry can create heartache and misfortune, especially in long relationships with children involved. For many women, especially when it comes to love, emotion trumps logic. Limerance and new love feelings can cause women to downplay or even ignore her love object's flaws. Women (and men, too) often ignore glaring red flags in the name of love. I've seen women fall in love with married men, and they are genuinely shocked & devasted when she catches him in a lie. This is because many women often view a man's bad traits (like cheating & lying) as circumstancial, and not as core character issues. It is very easy for women to get caught up in their feelings, and many men know this and take advantage of it. For many women, it often takes a conscious effort to make relationship choices based in logic. When you meet someone that you feel emotionally connected to, it's natural to want to give them the benefit of the doubt and trust them. It's just not smart. I think that that most bad characters do give red flags along the way. Especially bad coping skills. They may be subtle and not obvious. Little lies and incidents were probably downplayed and brushed under the rug, because we naturally want to have faith in the ones we love. The best way to judge someone's character is to see how they act in times of stress & crisis. When there are no conflicts and life is good, it is easy for a weak charactered individual to cruise through life like a normal and well balanced individual. However, once they are put under stress, they are unable to keep it together because they don't have the coping skills to deal with life. This is when their true colors come out. This is when you will see a quick temper. This is when they will drink away the pain. This is when they will steal to avoid facing their consequences. They don't have the coping skills to deal when things get rough. I believe that most people like this will give hints of their true nature. It's just that most people we never given the skills by their own parents to recognize these hints. Parents, it is up to us to teach our kids the skills to recognize people like this. Kids don't grow up in a sheltered environment, surrounded by people that love, protect them and have their best interests at heart....and then magically develop the skills to recognize personality issues in others. This is something that we must instill in them, or they will be naive and too trusting. How many times do we hear parents say "I didn't trust that guy! I didn't want her to marry him but she didn't listen". The parents recognized the flags because they have a lifetime of experience. The girl was probably protected from shady characters and thinks most everyone has a good heart and tells the truth. We need to teach our kids about liars and narcissists and borderlines and addicts EARLY. This way, they will have the tools to recognize red flags. By the time they are ready to marry, the ability to judge character will be instilled in them and they'll make good choices on their own. As for the online poster, you will have trouble dating because having three children will lessen your value in the eyes of most men. This will feel unfair to you, but it's reality. However, don't base your self worth on your value to men- know that you are a great person regardless of a man's perception. Fill your life with people and activities that you love, and if you meet a man that can fit in your life...great. But don't depend on it. You do need to be realistic about your expectations. $40K may be an adequate salary for a single person, but it's not a selling point when you have four people to support. Attractive and fun to hang out with are positives, but most men aren't going to think of you as "long term" because of those kids. Most men will be reluctant to get close, because they don't want you to become attached or to depend on them. You will be able to find superficial FWB type relationships, but it is going to be very difficult to find a strong charactered, financially stable, non addicted man to be in a long term relationship with. Why? Because strong charactered, financially stable, non addicted men usually have a strong sense of self worth. They want the best for themselves, and although you have a lot to offer, most are not going to view you as long term relationship material. This isn't fair, but just the way it is. The ones without kids (who eventually want their own) will be looking for single women without kids. The men that have kids, usually don't want more and have no desire to be a father figure to someone else's kids. Even if you say you don't expect them to be a father figure, that will be their fear and they won't get close. Same for men that never want kids. So you have to be realistic and look at what you have to offer from the other person's point of view, while thinking logically about the other options that are available to them. We are all judged by our choices. Fair or not, that's just the way people are. I chose to marry a black guy, and no matter how great of a husband he is to me, some people assume I must be fat, trashy, ugly and on welfare because of that one choice. What's important is that we don't let other people's lapses in judgement affect our own self worth. Good post. Just one point on the 'Parents, it is up to us to teach our kids the skills ' paragraph...giving them the advice is one thing, having them wise up to it is another. I know a number of women who complain their daughters or step daughters don't listen to their advice on men, they think they know better...'what do you know about young guys now, he's different, no he's really a sweetheart if you knew the real him, blah blah'. (though you only hear from the ones that complain) Some people need to learn themselves and as you said emotion trumps logic for many girls. Parents at least need to do their best. OP. Your friends are a bit misguided if they they set you up with deadbeats and think they are doing you a favour. Since they do that I don’t see any harm in recommending - you might be better off being upfront to an FWB relationship with a better quality man if you want some decent man time in your life as opposed to the ignorant losers which have been the parade so far …otherwise move to a new city but don’t think its just your town where a single mom + 3 doesn't have it easy.
dreamingoftigers Posted January 25, 2012 Posted January 25, 2012 I think it is sad where the one responsible parent gets the shaft (or doesn't as it were). The other parent gets to just walk off and play house with someone new.
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