They all Suck

[Eve]

That's ridiculous.

 

 

One of my friends pulled the same crap with her husband and 2 kids. Last year he worked up North and she cheated with _9_ different guys (and 3 women). I mean, WTF? Then she ran off with one guy and lived with him for six months until he got tired of her sponging off of him, so she hooked up with his friend.

 

And crap like that happens ALL THE TIME.

 

Wow.. that is really shocking! Who has the time to meet with so many different people? What? All in one year? Man..

 

Nothing else to add, except maybe OP, quit worrying about it. Look after the babies and see this as an opportunity to review whatever world view you have.

 

I was a single mummy too back in the day so can relate in some ways to what you are saying. I just didn't doubt that the men I was meeting were idiots. Didn't even let them cross the road to approach me. P'sshhhhh, as if!

 

Review your world view. More than likely what you are contemplating is actually true.

 

Seriously now.

 

Take care,

Eve x

[jobaba]

One of my friends pulled the same crap with her husband and 2 kids. Last year he worked up North and she cheated with _9_ different guys (and 3 women). I mean, WTF? Then she ran off with one guy and lived with him for six months until he got tired of her sponging off of him, so she hooked up with his friend.

 

Seriously, no one saw that coming. We wanted to have an intervention for her. There wasn't a dating history for the husband to have warnings on it either. They were each other's first and had been together off and on since Junior High. Messed right up.

 

Watch who your friends become over the next 5, 10, 20 years. I am quite positive some will truly surprise you.

 

I search for character and heart. In fact the main reason I chose to marry my husband was because of how honest he was. He seemed miles above that compared to other guys I dated and dumped. He held things together really well until the 3rd year of our marriage. Amazingly. He can look you right in the face and he doesn't even have to "convince" you of anything. I think he believes the things he says when he says them. No matter how off orbthe mark they are. It's actually quite scary.

 

Your people picker is off. You're blaming life instead of yourself.

 

I have seen some of the choices my friends have made over the last 20 years (cheating, scheming, being d@ouchebags) and I put them in a lower category for it. Some of them I'm no longer friends with.

 

I know exactly which one of my friends 'will', 'might', or 'will never' cheat on his wife with 9 women if she is away. People don't go completely AWOL from 'never' to 'will' like you say.

[aj22one]

 

I know exactly which one of my friends 'will', 'might', or 'will never' cheat on his wife if she is away. People don't go completely AWOL from 'never' to 'will' like you say.

 

Well, they do when they have a brain tumor or have gotten a lobotomy. But those are probably pretty rare occasions.

[colliejoanie]

Collie,

 

You really, truly believe that you never could have saw any of this coming? I remember distinctly from another one of your posts where you said that you know you are attracted to a man the moment you meet him. And then another post where you are in love with a tall, handsome man who has nothing going for him. Perhaps it is this sense of attraction that has gotten you in trouble in the first place.

 

The guy is a COMPLETE d@uchebag. Not only does he scheme to skip out on child support, he BEAT you. I don't care how low I get in life due to drugs and curveballs, I would never do that to a woman. And there was period where I was drunk quite often (recreationally though) and dating a woman who would get me so angry it'd drive me nuts. And like I said before, I could introduce you to a few guys tomorrow who would never turn into your ex. I guarantee it with my life.

 

We can't just sit back and let life take us where it will and then blame complications on people 'just changing'. One of the reasons my people picker is 'solid' is because I'm a very judgemental person (as evidenced from my posts here). I can name a number of people I would never hang out with in real life that post here just from the way they pick apart their dates. I look for people with character and heart. A guy with character and heart does not scheme creative ways to work under the table so his little daughter does not eat ... no matter how low he is in life.

 

I HAVE dated a woman with children and she admitted her ex-husband was the biggest d@uchbag in the world and put simply she was stupid. You can never say, you'd do it over since the kids are there. But you CAN make sure you don't pick the same kind of guy the next time around. Probably part of the reason she dated me.

 

Sorry. I really am trying to be productive with this post.

 

Jobaba, you'll get no argument from me on the douch baggyness of my ex husband. I live it. I know. And obviously you don't know anything about our relationship....how it began....why it began.......what it was like then. We're not friends, so why would you.

 

If your "people picker" (which I really can't stand that term everyone uses here on LS) were spot on though, I don't think you'd be here. Yes, I'm attracted to tall, handsome guys. I'm a tall girl. I think we've all got certain physical qualities we're attracted to, right? Yes, I liked a tall guy who was a job hopper.....I also liked a short, bald guy with children who was the antithesis of that, a short chubby guy who ended up being a premature sexter ....and the list goes on. Some of these men were jerks, some just weren't for me, but I'll guarantee you NONE of them were like my ex husband. And I didn't date ass holes BEFORE my ex husband either. My first fiancee was short, bald, bad teeth, but the NICEST, FUNNIEST man I'd ever met. (I've posted about him too).

 

If you knew me you'd know how I think about the times I should have left my ex husband, before I had my daughter. And then I feel such utter guilt for having such a thought, because it's like I'm wishing she didn't exist. I also posted about how I wanted he and I to work so badly that I stayed when I shouldn't have. I thought I could fix it.

 

I absolutely have regrets. I know we all do. But pretending there's something special about you that gives you the right to judge people based on their "stats" is quite arrogant. And non productive .

[Feelsgoodman]

Here is what is wrong with the mentality here: basically you are suggesting that this woman should have been in her last relationship preparing to be s single mother the whole time.

No, that's not at all what I am suggesting. No woman should be walking down the isle knowing she would eventually become a single mother. If that's the expectation, you shouldn't be getting married in the first place.

 

The problem with single moms is that they are never willing to take responsibility for marrying the wrong man. When was the last time you heard a woman say "yeah, it's my fault, I was dumb and married the wrong guy"? They never say that. Instead of taking personal responsibility for making a bad choice, they always play the victim and come up with some excuse. I mean, consider the OP's situation. Do you honestly believe that she had no idea that her drug addict/conman/psychopath ex-husband was not the best relationship material? And that he turned from a sweet innocent boy into a monster overnight?? Give me a break

 

Getting married is kind of like going skydiving. There's always an element of risk, but you can minimize it be being prepared. No reasonable person would jump out of a plane without knowing anything about skydiving. Chances are, you wouldn't know how and when to deploy the parachute and end up dead. Before you jump, you take lessons and prepare yourself. Same thing with getting married. No reasonable woman would marry a guy simply because she's in love. That's just dumb. You have to objectively evaluate your boyfriend as to whether he is good husband material. Many women don't do that and end up marrying deadbeats, "bad boys", etc. And you know what? It's their own damn fault for being negligent.

[jobaba]

I absolutely have regrets. I know we all do. But pretending there's something special about you that gives you the right to judge people based on their "stats" is quite arrogant. And non productive .

 

I'm not being arrogant.

 

I'm suggesting that based on your posts you appear to pick men based on initial physical and emotional attraction. And that may have led to some of your problems.

 

If you know that not to be true, then you wouldn't be offended.

[colliejoanie]

I'm not being arrogant.

 

I'm suggesting that based on your posts you appear to pick men based on initial physical and emotional attraction. And that may have led to some of your problems.

 

If you know that not to be true, then you wouldn't be offended.

 

I'm not offended because you're right (as noted in my post). I'm offended because you're spouting off your opinion like it's Gospel.

[jobaba]

I'm not offended because you're right (as noted in my post). I'm offended because you're spouting off your opinion like it's Gospel.

 

OK. Maybe it was a little arrogant. Apologize.

 

Really, it seems as though you pick men for looks and emotion. I don't know you in real life, so I just go off the posts that I've read. If not, then disregard what I said...

[Mme. Chaucer]

To the OP:

 

I agree with those who have said that you probably need to take a break from dating. When you feel ready to go back, I suggest that you take it VERY slowly. Approach dating as an experience in itself, rather than a search for your next serious relationship, for a while.

 

I DO NOT think it's your "fault" that you are in this situation. I will say that some of your posts lead me to believe that you need to remove yourself from the "pool" that contains many losers, and that you are not doing so. The post in particular that stands out is the one where you say your friend tried to set you up with a loser who would not "allow" you to take him out even though he had no money.

 

This guy should not even have been on your radar at all. Guys like this need to be immediately passed over.

 

It sounds like your self esteem is damaged, even though you describe yourself as if you have confidence.

 

All guys DO NOT suck, I promise. We are responsible for choosing the people we let into our lives. That said, some people change a lot, and some people actively and skillfully mislead others.

 

My ex husband and I were both drug abusers in youth and I got clean. I never saw him or allowed him to see our daughter for 4 years, as he was still using. Finally, he got clean too. We were married when she was 5 years old. We had 14 wonderful years - and he went back on drugs, became abusive, stole from our company and lost it and our home for us with his dishonest dealings.

 

I don't blame myself for any of that, but I did take a big risk getting back together with him. Of course, I was a risk myself. And, any serious relationship involves risk and a leap of faith.

 

Also, please don't take the guys seriously who say things like having children is a deal breaker for 90% of single men. It's false. I'm sure we all know more than 10 women with kids who ended up remarried. It's very common. Of course, there are some men for whom it IS a deal breaker, and that's perfectly fine. You DO have kids, and when you are in a relationship again it needs to be with a man who will be able to embrace them.

 

Take care of yourself and remove yourself completely from the pool that contains the losers!

[jobaba]

I feel kind of bad for dredging up past ghosts and regret in this thread. I should never have submitted that first post.

 

Sorry if I caused anybody any painful feelings.

 

I just see so many good guys get passed up, sometimes I try and get women to change their sense of attraction, but...

 

For what it's worth, I apologize.

[stillafool]

OP, I agree with the others who said that maybe you need to take a break from dating and just worry about raising your kids at this point in your life. I'm sure they must keep you awfully busy.

[make me believe]

OP, you said that two ways you commonly meet guys are at bars and through friends. What kind of bar are you going to that attracts the losers you described? Go somewhere more upscale if you're trying to find a decent guy.

 

And, really, your friends are friends with guys who never see their kids, don't have jobs, and live with their parents? Well, we tend to hang out with people who are similar to us, so I can see why you are attracting these guys then. Friends of friends are usually a pretty safe bet when dating because they are 'pre-screened.' But if these are the types of guys that YOUR FRIENDS are hanging out with, then honestly that says a lot about the social circle you're in and the kind of people who you will attract to your life.

 

I also don't think that people "just change" in the drastic ways thats some of the posters have described here. People claim this kind of crap way too often for me to believe that it's true in every situation. Additionally, you had THREE kids with your ex . So either he hid his 'true' self from you VERY effectively for a LONG time, or you showed extremely poor & dangerous judgment by continuing to have kids with a guy who was throwing up red flags.

 

Also, it's extremely unattractive when people try to blame others, or their circumstances, for what has gone wrong in their life. If you present your backround as a huge 'woe is me' tale, and immediately start rattling off everything that your ex did wrong & all the ways he deceived you, it just comes across as you not taking responsibility for your own life. Most people will be turned off by that, and it will deter quality men.

 

The problem with single moms is that they are never willing to take responsibility for marrying the wrong man. When was the last time you heard a woman say "yeah, it's my fault, I was dumb and married the wrong guy"? They never say that. Instead of taking personal responsibility for making a bad choice, they always play the victim and come up with some excuse. I mean, consider the OP's situation. Do you honestly believe that she had no idea that her drug addict/conman/psychopath ex-husband was not the best relationship material? And that he turned from a sweet innocent boy into a monster overnight?? Give me a break

 

Getting married is kind of like going skydiving. There's always an element of risk, but you can minimize it be being prepared. No reasonable person would jump out of a plane without knowing anything about skydiving. Chances are, you wouldn't know how and when to deploy the parachute and end up dead. Before you jump, you take lessons and prepare yourself. Same thing with getting married. No reasonable woman would marry a guy simply because she's in love. That's just dumb. You have to objectively evaluate your boyfriend as to whether he is good husband material. Many women don't do that and end up marrying deadbeats, "bad boys", etc. And you know what? It's their own damn fault for being negligent.

 

Totally agree. This is the kind of victim playing and poor judgment that will turn off a lot of decent guys. NOT just the fact that a woman has kids, but the way she takes responsibility, or refuses to, for her circumstances.

[FitChick]

The OP's desperation makes her a prime target for pedophiles who target single mothers. Those lonely women are so happy to find a man who not only doesn't mind that she has kids, he really wants to spend time with them!.

 

Have your tubes tied before you get involved with anyone else. Focus on the kids and make them the center of your life until they are teenagers and more independent. Otherwise you are teaching them that a woman can't be happy without a man and any man will do.

[dreamingoftigers]

Your people picker is off. You're blaming life instead of yourself.

 

I have seen some of the choices my friends have made over the last 20 years (cheating, scheming, being d@ouchebags) and I put them in a lower category for it. Some of them I'm no longer friends with.

 

I know exactly which one of my friends 'will', 'might', or 'will never' cheat on his wife with 9 women if she is away. People don't go completely AWOL from 'never' to 'will' like you say.

 

Some people just snap. Decide that they missed something in youth etc.

 

She is not someone I view as trustworthy anymore but all accounts. But she was someone in my youth that I would have trusted.

 

How many people have you heard of that were squeaky clean that turned out to be anything but?

 

I would expect to come across at least a few in the course of a lifetime. The important thing is that when it becomes known to see if it is an aberration or if it is something that requires the immediate removal from your life.

 

You yourself have seen your friends periodically be douchebags. Did you know that they were from Day One? Probably not or you wouldn't have become friends with them.

 

Most people have a skeleton or two in the closet. Some are much better at dressing them up.

 

I was pretty shocked about the numbers myself. And that's just the ones I know about for sure. I guess she's, um, capable of a lot of things.

 

My husband's skeletons in particular were the ones I was the most careful to sniff out an avoid. The ones I was the most fearful of. He must've picked up on that very early on.

[dreamingoftigers]

Well, they do when they have a brain tumor or have gotten a lobotomy. But those are probably pretty rare occasions.

 

Or when it turns out they are unbalanced in some way, which can be found to be over time. Some traits are sociopathic as well.

[dreamingoftigers]

The OP's desperation makes her a prime target for pedophiles who target single mothers. Those lonely women are so happy to find a man who not only doesn't mind that she has kids, he really wants to spend time with them!.

 

Have your tubes tied before you get involved with anyone else. Focus on the kids and make them the center of your life until they are teenagers and more independent. Otherwise you are teaching them that a woman can't be happy without a man and any man will do.

 

How disgustingly judgmental. Read for comprehension. The OP is clearly stating that she IS NOT impressed with the quality of men she has encouraged thus far and is choosing to be discerning with who she dates. Somehow that means she is no longer fit to breed and as well makes her a prime target for pedophiles!

 

Disagree completely and hopefully other posts are of far more value. How shaming, unhelpful and blatantly rude.

[dreamingoftigers]

Furthermore. In our youth, it is quite possible that we were in fact naive to the effects of certain traits of our mates.

 

Naive does not make us vain, shallow, disloyal or otherwise terrible.

 

Nor does it makes any of us deserving of a life alone (or not to have any more children should we so choose in the future, good God!).

 

Often with single mothers they split into quite a few different choices. One of those choices was probably to stay with an abusive douchebag and continue to take his crap forever and expose our kids to that. In essence our people pucker rejected an very unhealthy mate when we became less naive and more discerning. What else would you suggest once we are in the situation?

 

Some of those men may have been very naive to marriage, family etc. Believing that perhaps the woman would take care of everything and becoming embittered and explosive when things didn't go his way. Men can change drastically from pre-marriage to post-marriage as well. (anyone can).

 

So often you see things like the woman decides after marriage that she is now going to stay home instead of work etc. Some men believe that once the marriage happens they can relax and treat their wives however they want.

 

For me, everything was pretty much fine until fatherhood came into play. I never could have gauged my husband's response to fatherhood. No sane person would have guessed that the guy who wanted kids. The happy, well-adjusted guy would completely come apart during his wife's pregnancy.

 

As well, I suspect quite a serious mental illness which seems to be getting worse with time. Quite another factor altogether.

[colliejoanie]

 

Disagree completely and hopefully other posts are of far more value. How shaming, unhelpful and blatantly rude.

 

There enlies the problem with so many posts on LS. People come here for advice. You don't think we ALL know we've made mistakes? That's why we'd like advice. Not judgment.

 

Your judgments are just that.....YOURS.

 

There is no reason to mean, bitter, and nasty, unless that's truly the person you are.....and if so, THAT SUCKS!!!

[dreamingoftigers]

There enlies the problem with so many posts on LS. People come here for advice. You don't think we ALL know we've made mistakes? That's why we'd like advice. Not judgment.

 

Your judgments are just that.....YOURS.

 

There is no reason to mean, bitter, and nasty, unless that's truly the person you are.....and if so, THAT SUCKS!!!

 

I am guessing that even though you quoted me, you aren't talking to me

[colliejoanie]

I am guessing that even though you quoted me, you aren't talking to me

 

Oh Lord, NO!! Sorry if it looked that way. The "you" is a general one. The ones who have been especially mean, like they just NEED to say something hurtful to SHOW THAT DUMB OP how she deserves what she got.

[musemaj11]

You are so bitter.

[dreamingoftigers]

You are so bitter.

 

Based on what? And how is that helpful in any way to anyone, anywhere?

[Quiet Storm]

I think many women choose their partners based on emotion and chemistry.

 

I think that this is naturally our "default" way of thinking about love and romance. Basing these choices on emotion and chemistry can create some of the most passionate, exciting romantic and sexual experiences of our lives. On the flip side, basing these choices on emotion and chemistry can create heartache and misfortune, especially in long relationships with children involved.

 

For many women, especially when it comes to love, emotion trumps logic. Limerance and new love feelings can cause women to downplay or even ignore her love object's flaws. Women (and men, too) often ignore glaring red flags in the name of love. I've seen women fall in love with married men, and they are genuinely shocked & devasted when she catches him in a lie. This is because many women often view a man's bad traits (like cheating & lying) as circumstancial, and not as core character issues.

 

It is very easy for women to get caught up in their feelings, and many men know this and take advantage of it. For many women, it often takes a conscious effort to make relationship choices based in logic. When you meet someone that you feel emotionally connected to, it's natural to want to give them the benefit of the doubt and trust them. It's just not smart.

 

I think that that most bad characters do give red flags along the way. Especially bad coping skills. They may be subtle and not obvious. Little lies and incidents were probably downplayed and brushed under the rug, because we naturally want to have faith in the ones we love.

 

The best way to judge someone's character is to see how they act in times of stress & crisis. When there are no conflicts and life is good, it is easy for a weak charactered individual to cruise through life like a normal and well balanced individual. However, once they are put under stress, they are unable to keep it together because they don't have the coping skills to deal with life. This is when their true colors come out. This is when you will see a quick temper. This is when they will drink away the pain. This is when they will steal to avoid facing their consequences. They don't have the coping skills to deal when things get rough.

 

I believe that most people like this will give hints of their true nature. It's just that most people we never given the skills by their own parents to recognize these hints. Parents, it is up to us to teach our kids the skills to recognize people like this. Kids don't grow up in a sheltered environment, surrounded by people that love, protect them and have their best interests at heart....and then magically develop the skills to recognize personality issues in others. This is something that we must instill in them, or they will be naive and too trusting.

 

How many times do we hear parents say "I didn't trust that guy! I didn't want her to marry him but she didn't listen". The parents recognized the flags because they have a lifetime of experience. The girl was probably protected from shady characters and thinks most everyone has a good heart and tells the truth. We need to teach our kids about liars and narcissists and borderlines and addicts EARLY. This way, they will have the tools to recognize red flags. By the time they are ready to marry, the ability to judge character will be instilled in them and they'll make good choices on their own.

 

As for the online poster, you will have trouble dating because having three children will lessen your value in the eyes of most men. This will feel unfair to you, but it's reality. However, don't base your self worth on your value to men- know that you are a great person regardless of a man's perception. Fill your life with people and activities that you love, and if you meet a man that can fit in your life...great. But don't depend on it.

 

You do need to be realistic about your expectations. $40K may be an adequate salary for a single person, but it's not a selling point when you have four people to support. Attractive and fun to hang out with are positives, but most men aren't going to think of you as "long term" because of those kids. Most men will be reluctant to get close, because they don't want you to become attached or to depend on them. You will be able to find superficial FWB type relationships, but it is going to be very difficult to find a strong charactered, financially stable, non addicted man to be in a long term relationship with. Why? Because strong charactered, financially stable, non addicted men usually have a strong sense of self worth. They want the best for themselves, and although you have a lot to offer, most are not going to view you as long term relationship material. This isn't fair, but just the way it is. The ones without kids (who eventually want their own) will be looking for single women without kids. The men that have kids, usually don't want more and have no desire to be a father figure to someone else's kids. Even if you say you don't expect them to be a father figure, that will be their fear and they won't get close. Same for men that never want kids. So you have to be realistic and look at what you have to offer from the other person's point of view, while thinking logically about the other options that are available to them.

 

We are all judged by our choices. Fair or not, that's just the way people are. I chose to marry a black guy, and no matter how great of a husband he is to me, some people assume I must be fat, trashy, ugly and on welfare because of that one choice. What's important is that we don't let other people's lapses in judgement affect our own self worth.

[DepressedinDenver]

Some of these posts I have read in this thread are not judgmental though.

 

You can all get mad at the posters all you want but some of is are the facts in American Society. Single moms especially if more than one kid are veryyy low on the desire scale for most men. Is it unfair? Maybe. But its the truth and You cannot blame guys for not wanting to have to raise another mans children or pay for another mans children or have to trust that a mother is not just looking for a paycheck because some single moms are.

 

So its a place not a lot of men like to walk. Its all just realistic.

[carhill]

Insightful posting, Quiet Storm. Thank you.

 

We need to teach our kids about liars and narcissists and borderlines and addicts EARLY.

 

Yes, as I opined in another thread, had my father sat me down at a young age, back when I was forming elemental emotional memories and aspects of socialization, and merely told me the story of his first wife and how she left him while he was at war and took his children, I would have seen the pain on his face and in his words and balanced that marked reality against the safety and protection and positive role models he and my mother provided. I would have seen women (girls back then) more clearly and completely. He never did that, choosing to keep his past pain to himself and not even educate in a general way. I can clearly see how I would have done things differently, as a parent, in that regard. Balance is healthy.

 

Most of my dating experience during my 20 or so single years prior to getting married was with single mothers since single childless women were/are very rare where I live and I saw a lot of the dynamics which perhaps other men prefer not to deal with or outright fear. I understood the risks and took them anyway. Though none of the situations worked out, I wouldn't opine that they 'sucked'. They were life experiences. They solidified the precept that I did enjoy and love children and made me aware of the realities of being a parent. All positive things.

 

Hopefully, the OP will weather this frustrating period and perhaps meet such a like-minded man. Anything is possible.