rie39 Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 I really, really need advice from people on loveshack here. You don't know how much this means to me. There is a guy who I was seeing last year who, due to a messy situation that happened between him, me and another girl, I am no longer seeing (I will explain) as I said goodbye. I really miss him though, and I feel the urge to contact him again. I will try and explain what happened clearly. I was seeing him, Jon, for a few months. He made it clear he didn't want a relationship because he wasn't ready because he'd just broken up with his ex, so we were just casually dating. But we held hands, kissed, slept together (we didn't go the whole way though, he was patient and wanted to wait until I was ready) and he asked me to move in with him because he was living alone, he was very affectionate. I really liked him. Then one of my friends, Tim, said a girl he (Tim) had befriended off a dating site said she was also seeing Jon at the same time I was. She said she was having sex with him. We both confronted Jon. I thought it was okay for Jon to be seeing the other girl because he was single and didn't promise me monogamy. I expected him to be seeing other girls after he told me he didn't want a relationship with anyone. Because when men say that they most times mean they don't want to be tied down and want to mingle, right. But I panicked and said I didn't want to see him again. That's what everyone told me to do. I sent him a text wishing him good luck with his future, that I wanted to give closure, but also that he should feel bad for what he'd done. He didn't reply and didn't fight for me, and I heard through Tim (who was being the middleman between me and the girl) that he was trying to sort things out with the other girl. Apparently he told her he wanted her. Tim thinks its because he panicked and was desperate for her because she was the one giving him sex. She said she didn't want him because he was too late (she wanted him earlier but he only just decides to fight for her). I figured he didn't want me as much as her so I let him go. I haven't been able to stop thinking about him since then. I still can't wrap my head around what happened. What do I do. Is it really bad if I contact him (he has a website I can post a private comment on) and ask how he's been? Or is it just too awkward/messy. It feels as if I'm not supposed to. But I really want to. And I forgive him for what he did. I know there'll be people who say "just move on". I can't, I just can't. Trust me I've tried. I feel like if I still want him after months of this happening I should try and fight for him.
Sugarkane Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 If he wasn't over his ex, he shouldn't of been dating anyone at all.
Author rie39 Posted January 22, 2012 Author Posted January 22, 2012 He was over his ex. His ex wasn't over him. She couldn't move on and kept calling him and coming to his house begging for him back.
ditzchic Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Do not throw yourself at this guy. He showed you and even TOLD you he doesn't want a relationship with you. Yes, it's hard and yes, heartbreak sucks but prolonging the heartbreak and realizing you lost your pride while doing so hurts even more. If you throw yourself at him now you will either be put back to square one of rejection by him telling you to buzz off. Or he will take you back out of desperation and this whole thing will happen all over again when the next better thing comes along. I'm not going to say just move on because I've been there and I know it's impossible. Instead I will say just live your life. You're not just going to magically stop thinking about him but time will bring his memory back less and less. For now, go with what you feel. You feel like thinking about him so go ahead and think about him. Analyze it to death if you need to. At some point during all that analyzing it will hit you that you just weren't right for each other. You may not stop thinking about him right away but you will stop caring as much. You will slowly detach and become you again. Do that. 1
USMCHokie Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Let this one go. I don't understand why people choose to fight for someone who doesn't want them. Is it because you can't have him to yourself that makes him so desirable to you...?
thehead Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Go after him and you'll only humiliate yourself. Think you've hit rock bottom? You can go lower and the quickest way is to try and get this joker back.
Author rie39 Posted January 22, 2012 Author Posted January 22, 2012 ditzchic...thankyou, your advice was really insightful. I now know what I have to do. Not force myself to let him go or forget him. But to realise that it takes time and I will get over him slowly. That I was just not the one for him. And that at least I have my pride in having said goodbye when he messed up. USMCHokie...He's always been desirable to me. I think its just that I had gotten attached and used to being physically intimate with him. I feel lonely and long for his touch that I was used to. And I really liked the guy and thought he was genuine, I guess I just haven't 100% come to terms with the fact he's actually a jerk. thehead...True. I'll hold on to my pride and avoid humiliating myself by going after him. I don't want to go lower than this.
Frogwife Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 ditzchic...thankyou, your advice was really insightful. I now know what I have to do. Not force myself to let him go or forget him. But to realise that it takes time and I will get over him slowly. That I was just not the one for him. And that at least I have my pride in having said goodbye when he messed up. USMCHokie...He's always been desirable to me. I think its just that I had gotten attached and used to being physically intimate with him. I feel lonely and long for his touch that I was used to. And I really liked the guy and thought he was genuine, I guess I just haven't 100% come to terms with the fact he's actually a jerk. thehead...True. I'll hold on to my pride and avoid humiliating myself by going after him. I don't want to go lower than this. Good lord - why is this guy a "jerk"? Why is he not "genuine"? You were in a non-monogamous, non-exclusive relationship. He was upfront with you about not wanting a relationship and you continued with him after hearing that. He has met someone else that he's interested in and he's pursuing that. I don't see how that makes him a jerk in any way - he was honest with you. In addition, you told him you didn't want to see him again because "everyone told you to do it" - well, maybe he took your word for it and actually assumed you meant what you said. Why would you expect a guy to "fight for you" after you've told him you don't want to see him?? Sometimes there are consequences for our actions - we have all been there and have said things we've regretted. Just take this as a good lesson to not try to play games.
Ninjainpajamas Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Frogwife - that has to be one of the most incompetent analysis of this situation, It makes me wonder If you've been manipulated into thinking that It's ok to be treated this way. I'll tell you why he's a jerk...It's very simple **Warning - brutally honest with no sugar coating...just straight to the point and telling you honestly how it is instead wasting time on pointless theories or irrelevant details for the sake of "hope" and feeling better** - He told you he didn't want to be with you in a relationship, not because he had recently broken up with his ex but because he needed an excuse to bang you without having to make a commitment. Therefore this means he doesn't want a relationship with you...now or ever, the only way he'd take you back is if he was desperate for some attention and companionship - Just because he didn't commit doesn't give him the right to disrespect you by seeing other women while living with a live-in substitute(you) for when he doesn't have anyone more interesting going on. This merely shows that you are a convenience, and that's hes not that into you and doesn't consider you on the level worthy of commitment. - Furthermore he didn't fight for you when you left...why? because you're not worth a fight. You weren't that much of a priority in the first place. Why did he end up with her? probably because he was more interested in her and because by default If you leave he'll just dedicate his time to her. IT doesn't really matter because even if you're on an even playing field he just sticks with the one that's left other because neither one really stands out from the other. Conclusion: The reason he is a jerk is because he played you...pretending to not be a hurry and courteous and caring because he waited patiently (which is easy to do when you have other women on the side) and he wasn't super interested in you so the motivation isn't there. He knew from the get-go that you weren't relationship material which is why he quickly drew that line through the sand and said ok "here's my get out of jail free card so you cannot hold me accountable for my actions" then he gets to have you while continuing to pursue other women. ..................... So I hope that makes sense, yes little variable details that you might know or claim to have "felt" between him and yourself, but I could say very confidently that you're wasting your time and he doesn't want a relationship with you. Which is why I'm even bothering to go into detail at this great of a length to help you put the pieces together, however I know women and if they want to believe or "follow their hearts" their going to do the stupid thing anyway, which is fine since many women tend to be this way. But for your own sake, hopefully you respect yourself more than whatever attachments you had for this guy. So what If he was affectionate and caring, you really think that was exclusive with you? he needed you at the time and you fulfilled a need, therefore he was using you in a great capacity for his own desires...that whole disconnect you feel when you break up with someone and feel lonely and just want that touch...sound familiar? Unlike with women though, many men can fulfill that through strangers much of the of the time...or at least their more willing to. Edited January 22, 2012 by Ninjainpajamas
Frogwife Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Ha Ninjainpyjamas, you just spent half a page reiterating what I just said! The guy didn't want to be in a relationship with her but she persisted and and now is upset because it didn't work out the way she wanted to. I just didn't take the time in my response to "read his mind" with possible play-by-play scenarios because because I have no way to know what he's thinking. The only thing any of us has to go on in life is what people say and do and act accordingly. If he was lying to her and saying he wanted an exclusive relationship with her and then was seeing other people - yes, he would be a jerk. But he wasn't doing that. Maybe around your parts it's "incompetent analysis" but for me, I don't consider myself "played" and I don't consider men "jerks" if I willingly go into a situation knowing upfront what it is. I don't play house with men who aren't offering me a commitment and then feel sad when they are still not offering me a commitment by dating other people. You can't live your life as a victim - you have to be responsible for the decisions you make. Edited January 22, 2012 by Frogwife typo
Ninjainpajamas Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Ha Ninjainpyjamas, you just spent half a page reiterating what I just said! The guy didn't want to be in a relationship with her but she persisted and and now is upset because it didn't work out the way she wanted to. I just didn't take the time in my response to "read his mind" with possible play-by-play scenarios because because I have no way to know what he's thinking. The only thing any of us has to go on in life is what people say and do and act accordingly. You're really asking why women need everything layed out? They always think their situation is the "exception" or something more "real" has transpired or they deny the fact that this is even remotely the same situation as everyone loves to feel when it's them in a situation and not someone else. Or they simply don't think about it because they want to believe in hope or emotions. The "reading his mind" process is to give clarity to what is actually happening, so that it can be understood. And to also show competency, which obviously you may have some kind of vague answer but not a thorough understanding general at least to a realistic degree. If he was lying to her and saying he wanted an exclusive relationship with her and then was seeing other people - yes, he would be a jerk. But he wasn't doing that. He wasn't being clear, he was lying by omission. He didn't tell her EVERYTHING, which is why she ran off, does that makes sense? Do you really think him asking her to move in wasn't sending her a hint in her mind that he might be willing to have one with her? I mean c'mon! This is common sense. Maybe around your parts it's "incompetent analysis" but for me, I don't consider myself "played" and I don't consider men "jerks" if I willingly go into a situation knowing upfront what it is. I don't play house with men who aren't offering me a commitment and then feel sad when they are still not offering me a commitment by dating other people. You can't live your life as a victim - you have to be responsible for the decisions you make. You know when you've been played? when you don't even think you are being played. Men are not jerks because of what they do If they are being open and truly clear about it, I know that women will bend over for the right kind of man very far...that's no news flash to me as an experienced man. However even I can see when a guy is being a jerk, and he had intentions of manipulation, that's as clear as day to me. However If you can't see that...wow, that's pretty impressive to me! I guess men in your world aren't responsible for the choices they make or responsible for the hurt/mind-**** they inflict when they have the power but abuse it anyway. You are right, you cannot live your life as a victim. But you also cannot place the responsibility on one person alone, she definitely made choices that landed her here obviously for her emotions, but he was fully aware of that I can assure you, he just didn't care.
Author rie39 Posted January 22, 2012 Author Posted January 22, 2012 Frogwife...I don't think he is a jerk just because he pursued the other girl. He wants her, he goes for her, I understand that. But he did this BEFORE I said goodbye to him, not after. I said goodbye because he was chasing after the other girl. From that I got the idea that the best thing for me to do was to leave. Just_A_Poster...It's wishy washy isn't it. He told me he didn't want a relationship but then he asks me to move in with him. Ninjainpajamas...thankyou for going into detail with your answer and being honest, it was so helpful. You've seriously made things clearer for me. It all makes sense - him being patient with sex because he was getting it from the other girl and because he wasn't really that into me, him possibly lying about not wanting a relationship with me not because of his ex but because he didn't want to owe commitment, etc. But when you say "Why did he end up with her? probably because he was more interested in her and because by default If you leave he'll just dedicate his time to her...", as I said to Frogwife above, he did not pursue her because I left, I left AFTER he pursued her. Frogwife (again)...Yes, I persisted with him despite him saying he didn't want a relationship with me, I had expectations. they failed and I got hurt. But don't you think he was a jerk for holding my hand, kissing me on the forehead telling me I was beautiful, asking me to move in with him, while he was having sex with another girl? Why would you lead someone on like that, someone who you don't want a relationship with? That doesn't make him a jerk? And I could not see it coming. Otherwise I wouldn't have pursued him. His actions and words (which were played most probably) led me to believe he was genuine and into me. Are you implying that its my fault for getting hurt from this? And are you saying that I should only get myself involved with men who clearly say that they want commitment?
Frogwife Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Frogwife...I don't think he is a jerk just because he pursued the other girl. He wants her, he goes for her, I understand that. But he did this BEFORE I said goodbye to him, not after. I said goodbye because he was chasing after the other girl. From that I got the idea that the best thing for me to do was to leave. Just_A_Poster...It's wishy washy isn't it. He told me he didn't want a relationship but then he asks me to move in with him. Ninjainpajamas...thankyou for going into detail with your answer and being honest, it was so helpful. You've seriously made things clearer for me. It all makes sense - him being patient with sex because he was getting it from the other girl and because he wasn't really that into me, him possibly lying about not wanting a relationship with me not because of his ex but because he didn't want to owe commitment, etc. But when you say "Why did he end up with her? probably because he was more interested in her and because by default If you leave he'll just dedicate his time to her...", as I said to Frogwife above, he did not pursue her because I left, I left AFTER he pursued her. Frogwife (again)...Yes, I persisted with him despite him saying he didn't want a relationship with me, I had expectations. they failed and I got hurt. But don't you think he was a jerk for holding my hand, kissing me on the forehead telling me I was beautiful, asking me to move in with him, while he was having sex with another girl? Why would you lead someone on like that, someone who you don't want a relationship with? That doesn't make him a jerk? And I could not see it coming. Otherwise I wouldn't have pursued him. His actions and words (which were played most probably) led me to believe he was genuine and into me. Are you implying that its my fault for getting hurt from this? And are you saying that I should only get myself involved with men who clearly say that they want commitment? If it were me, I wouldn't move in with a guy who didn't want to be in a committed relationship with me. I think when you are choosing a partner for a committed relationship, you should choose someone who is on the same track and you are. Yes, people can lie and say they want a serious relationship and then do something else. However, when they are saying upfront that they don't want anything serious, you have to listen to that. Anything they do *after* that has to be viewed with those "He doesn't want a relationship" glasses. So when he's kissing you, stroking your hair, telling you you're beautiful but he still hasn't said he wants a committed relationship with you, the niceties really mean nothing. You can listen to stuff about "mindf*cking" and abuse of power, etc etc etc but that puts you in a victim's role. When he said "I don't want a relationship with you" you had that opportunity to say "Ok, well, good luck to you", but you didn't. It's understandable and it's easier said than done - we've ALL be there... I would imagine every person here has not listened to their gut or ignored warning signs/red flags and been hurt as a result, but hopefully you will learn from this situation (and learn from the problems of other people on this forum) and make better decisions in the future.
Ninjainpajamas Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Ninjainpajamas...thankyou for going into detail with your answer and being honest, it was so helpful. You've seriously made things clearer for me. It all makes sense - him being patient with sex because he was getting it from the other girl and because he wasn't really that into me, him possibly lying about not wanting a relationship with me not because of his ex but because he didn't want to owe commitment, etc. But when you say "Why did he end up with her? probably because he was more interested in her and because by default If you leave he'll just dedicate his time to her...", as I said to Frogwife above, he did not pursue her because I left, I left AFTER he pursued her. I'm sorry that that's the way it was, it doesn't make me happy to tell you the way it is like that...in fact it just makes me feel more of like an ******* for understanding how all of that works :S But I'm glad it's helpful to you, these are important things to know and look out for in men. On the second part, we're on the same page I think there was just some miscommunication there. I understand the situation, but I was stating that because you had taken yourself out of the equation, he just reverted to her as a primary target by default. You see this guy probably needs someone to feed off in his life right now, so by you leaving he's obviously going to engage deeper with her, but it could be because he likes her more, or she's just more new or he's having fun...the reason is unknown but irrelevant because you were not enough or what he was looking for. But it's also very likely she's another pawn and he will ultimately try the same thing with her as he did with you. It's going to get really bad for this guy before he figures out what he really wants or works out all the emotional issues and will probably burn through quite a few women before doing so.
Author rie39 Posted January 22, 2012 Author Posted January 22, 2012 I'm sorry that that's the way it was, it doesn't make me happy to tell you the way it is like that...in fact it just makes me feel more of like an ******* for understanding how all of that works :S But I'm glad it's helpful to you, these are important things to know and look out for in men. On the second part, we're on the same page I think there was just some miscommunication there. I understand the situation, but I was stating that because you had taken yourself out of the equation, he just reverted to her as a primary target by default. You see this guy probably needs someone to feed off in his life right now, so by you leaving he's obviously going to engage deeper with her, but it could be because he likes her more, or she's just more new or he's having fun...the reason is unknown but irrelevant because you were not enough or what he was looking for. But it's also very likely she's another pawn and he will ultimately try the same thing with her as he did with you. It's going to get really bad for this guy before he figures out what he really wants or works out all the emotional issues and will probably burn through quite a few women before doing so. Yes, he focused on her because he was desperate and she was the best choice to him at the time. And with the whole "feeding off" thing, I agree. He probably did all of this to me because he was desperate, wanted to use me for his sexual needs or to make him feel worthy for the time being. That's interesting. I wouldn't have thought Jon would go for the other girl because I left, but for me because I would be the one that rejected him/the one he can't have that he consequently wants more...I've found a few guys I don't like have gone after me (usually for sex) because (as I don't like them) I've been cold to them, they are just so persistent. Am I right in thinking thats how the male mind works a lot of the time?
carhill Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Am I right in thinking thats how the male mind works a lot of the time? The minds of the men you are apparently attracting, yes. Bottom line is you ignored your canaries with this guy, they died and now you are feeling the effects of the toxic fumes in the mine. Get out (let him go).
Ninjainpajamas Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 There are two phases for men; First phase; He hasn't had you yet. Therefore your rejection provokes persistent as men want to basically "conquer" what is a challenge or difficult, it makes the victory sweeter. Keep in my mind, for some men it's just your body while for others it can be your body, mind, and heart. It just depends on when that guy is satisfied with draining you for what he needs. Typically the more competent/seasoned man will take more from you as the sex is easy enough to come by and doesn't provide that much of a challenge. Second phase; He already had you. Therefore "rejection" in your case is void because he has already taken from you what he wanted and was essentially just draining you, there is not more that he desires at this time. It's kinda like a snake survives off a kill for a while, except with men he still desires to eat other prey. Yes it is provoking that you were the one that left him (which honestly is the perspective because you left because of his actions - entirely different and correctable by a man, you left a window open so there's no rush) but that typically doesn't have an immediate effect. Therefore If it doesn't work out with this other girl he'll then come after you claiming that you were really the one and he was just done with her. When in fact she probably left him for the same reasons you had, but he's just spinning the story to make you feel more valuable. Furthermore; You also need to keep in mind there are different types of men. Some men are more likely to chase, where as some men will not and have other methods of pulling you in. Bottom line; Don't buy into the bull****, follow your gut and be persistent for a clear answer until you are satisfied with it.
Author rie39 Posted January 23, 2012 Author Posted January 23, 2012 There are two phases for men; First phase; He hasn't had you yet. Therefore your rejection provokes persistent as men want to basically "conquer" what is a challenge or difficult, it makes the victory sweeter. Keep in my mind, for some men it's just your body while for others it can be your body, mind, and heart. It just depends on when that guy is satisfied with draining you for what he needs. Typically the more competent/seasoned man will take more from you as the sex is easy enough to come by and doesn't provide that much of a challenge. Second phase; He already had you. Therefore "rejection" in your case is void because he has already taken from you what he wanted and was essentially just draining you, there is not more that he desires at this time. It's kinda like a snake survives off a kill for a while, except with men he still desires to eat other prey. That makes so much sense! I see now. Yes it is provoking that you were the one that left him (which honestly is the perspective because you left because of his actions - entirely different and correctable by a man, you left a window open so there's no rush) but that typically doesn't have an immediate effect. Therefore If it doesn't work out with this other girl he'll then come after you claiming that you were really the one and he was just done with her. When in fact she probably left him for the same reasons you had, but he's just spinning the story to make you feel more valuable. I doubt that he'll come running to me after trying with the other girl. We haven't been in contact for a few months. I have heard no sign from him since. Furthermore; You also need to keep in mind there are different types of men. Some men are more likely to chase, where as some men will not and have other methods of pulling you in. Bottom line; Don't buy into the bull****, follow your gut and be persistent for a clear answer until you are satisfied with it. I will take that advice thanks.
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