Should a Man be a Gentleman to a Woman Who won't Wait on a Man Hand n Foot?

January 21, 2012

Manners are good.

January 21, 2012

Oh geez.

I expect back what I give.

I am not one of the gals who expects a guy to pay for me and stuff, though. What is it that you think women expect and don't return? I'm assuming it's a monetary thing? And how many of these threads do we need? I'm sure there's another on this main page! You're just wording your "question" slightly differently.

My bf and I treat each other pretty much the same. We both do things for each other. Yeah if I expected him to make $$ while I stayed home, I would make sure I did the cleaning and cooking, etc. Obviously.

OP, do you honestly meet in your day to day life women like the hypothetical "American women" you post incessantly about? I'm serious. Have you had a terrible experience where you gave and gave and got nothing in return?

I cosign everrything veggirl has stated. Shes always spot on with her posts regarding these issues.I am a gentleman in the sense that I will treat a woman with repsect. I also expect to be treated the way I treat someone else.

I dont believe in different roles in a relathionship either. The only things id expect to be my job that I woudlnt expect a lady to do would be physical tasks that are more suited to male strength. Everything else Id see as something either of us could do.

Edited January 21, 2012 by kaylan

January 21, 2012

Why don't you stay there and marry a local? Don't think she won't change if you bring her back to the US and adapts to our customs.

Trust me Im doing all I can to be able to stay here. Even when I see an American woman here I feel disgusted.

January 21, 2012

C'mon, guys, y'all are falling to the same troll over and over and over again.

January 21, 2012

Now going on to the gentleman part. I don't expect my date to open the car door for me, or pay for dinner every time we go out, etc. However, if I had to pick between two men who are the exact same with the exception that one always opens all doors for me, pulls out the chair, walks on the street side of the sidewalk and is an overall gentleman - there's no doubt who I would pick. It definitely gives men a leg up.

Of course, people want the best offer they can get. If I had two women of equal beauty but one is cheap while the other is considerate, I would choose the one who is considerate.

Yes, but in most third world countries, it is not a choice for women to act any other way but in a subserviant manner.

And its not a choice for men to act in any other way but in a traditional manner either. In third world countries, the women's parents aren't going to let their daughter marry a guy who doesnt have a good income or doesnt come from a background comparable to their own.

Stop thinking from women's perspective all the time. Think about the opposite as well once in a while. It could make you a lot more considerate person.

Feminism is about choice, and we definitely have that privilege here in the USA.

Yes, a privilege that American men on the other hand do not have.

It is a much different intent here if a woman chooses to make her man dinner or do something nice for him. In other countries, it is male privilege that DEMANDS she does. Her life is ruled by the mercy of men.

And its also a female privilege here to DEMAND a man to do whatever it takes to provide for her and her kids. Over here its common for women to work and keep the money for themselves while the men are the ones responsible with covering the entire expenses of the family.

Woman, your mind is so stuck in one perspective. Broaden it for god's sake.

Muse, you gonna keep a scorecard if you ever get a woman? Tick... tick... tick, oh s.it I did 5 things for her today, she only did 4 for me. B..ch!!!

I can't even imagine you doing one nice thing for a woman.

Do you think you would be able to just...oh, I don't know, selflessly WITHOUT EXPECTING SOMETHING IN RETURN, do something kind for a woman? Just BECAUSE?

Yes, I do keep a scorecard with everyone including myself.

I dont want to get taken advantage of nor do I want to take advantage of someone. If you do something I appreciate, its guaranteed that Im not gonna forget about it and you will have the generosity returned sooner or later.

And yeah, lots of men do expect a woman to do the chores, in addition to working 40 hrs a week. My dad used to come home from work and straight into his man cave. My mom came home from work and cleaned and cooked. Muse, what says you about that? Is my dad completely evil? (and my mom made more money than him! no s.it!)

Yes, he was inconsiderate.

A man should always be a "gentleman," but when he finds himself involved with a woman who has a princess complex he should run - RUN!

Im a gentleman to a gentlewoman because she deserves it.

January 21, 2012

I'm with the person who wonders where the hel.l you're meeting these horrendous women you so often speak of. It's so annoying to see this threads over and over!

The women I know have NEVER had a princess complex with their guys. Every single woman I've ever known has enjoyed being treated well and has enjoyed treating her man well. It's HUMAN FREAKIN NATURE!!! And....common sense.

I just find it really hard to believe that all these men have found all these women to use and abuse them and their wallets. Somethings askew...

I've had many unsuccessful relationships, and for many reasons. But I honestly don't lump each one of those guys into the category of "lazy, cheap, ungrateful bastard". They all have good qualities that I admired and still do. AND it TAKES TWO people to screw up a relationship!!!!

UGH!!

January 21, 2012

I'm with the person who wonders where the hel.l you're meeting these horrendous women you so often speak of. It's so annoying to see this threads over and over!

The women I know have NEVER had a princess complex with their guys. Every single woman I've ever known has enjoyed being treated well and has enjoyed treating her man well. It's HUMAN FREAKIN NATURE!!! And....common sense.

I just find it really hard to believe that all these men have found all these women to use and abuse them and their wallets. Somethings askew...

I've had many unsuccessful relationships, and for many reasons. But I honestly don't lump each one of those guys into the category of "lazy, cheap, ungrateful bastard". They all have good qualities that I admired and still do. AND it TAKES TWO people to screw up a relationship!!!!

UGH!!

There are a few f**ked up women out here in this world just like they are men you may not have come across them but they are out there and they ruin it for men/women that have good intentions.

January 21, 2012

There are a few f**ked up women out here in this world just like they are men you may not have come across them but they are out there and they ruin it for men/women that have good intentions.

I shouldn't have said I've NEVER seen a girl be like this.....I guess I've just NEVER associated myself with someone who has that mentality. As far as letting that person ruin your outlook on future women/men, I think that's ridiculous. Like I said, I've had a lot of unsuccessful relationships, and yes I've thought the guys were A holes at times. But I've learned from each one.....and am hopefully still going to find a good man.

I just think it's so sad to be so bitter.......It does you no good.

January 21, 2012

The point is that no woman actually wants the arrangement described in my previous post (though some end up in it due to life circumstances) and it is certainly not the societal expectation. Likewise, a man should not be expected treat a woman as both a lady and his equal. In fact, the two are incompatible with each other. Either you get to be a lady or a man's equal. Not both.

I'm having a hard time believing that you actually believe this, to be honest. Never have I seen something so blatantly and laughably black-and-white.

First of all, some people on these forums may very well have different ideas of what an actual gentleman is. Some seem to base it more on money and the traditional male/female roles, some base it more on actual character traits that a person embodies.

So, for this instance, let's say that even with the various definitions of what a gentleman may be by individual terms, most will agree upon the main aspects that make any gentleman:

A man who is above all seen and known to be polite, kind, respectful, and considerate not only towards women, but towards the general population as well.

I am a gentleman in the sense that I will treat a woman with repsect. I also expect to be treated the way I treat someone else.

Manners are good.

So, since when did the idea of a woman becoming a man's equal cancel out a person having manners, courtesy, and respect for another person? Why does becoming his equal automatically mean that a woman is no longer a "lady", or can be treated like one? Believe it or not, it doesn't always have to be one or the other. Example being: I can still be a lady and (for the most part) be "independent"; a man can still be a gentleman without having to "clean out his pockets" for a woman.

Most importantly, if you're a man and you wish to take on a more "traditional" role in a relationship/marriage? Fair enough, find a wonderful woman who agrees with that. Plenty of 'em out there. If you want a woman who doesn't mind sharing the roles in the relationship/marriage? Fair enough, find one who agrees with that. Plenty of 'em out there. Simple.

No one is making you do anything, or be with anyone who isn't compatible with your beliefs on male-female roles within relationships and marriages.

January 22, 2012

How many women who believe that its the job of a man to be a gentleman and treats a woman like a 'lady' also believe that its the job of a woman to be a good woman and wait on a man hand and foot?

The job of a man to be a gentlemen is countered by the job of a woman to be a lady. To garner the privilege of being waited on requires another equal exchange, whatever that may be, from the male side.

.

January 22, 2012

A woman attracted enough and well invested in the man emotionally will wait on one hand n foot without him being a gentleman because she feels honored and privileged to have a man. In reality men are the prize women just deceive us

January 22, 2012

The job of a man to be a gentlemen is countered by the job of a woman to be a lady. To garner the privilege of being waited on requires another equal exchange, whatever that may be, from the male side.

.

But whats the guarantee that a man will get in return what he gave? I mean American women dont even believe in waiting on a man hand and foot in the first place. They consider that demeaning while on the other hand a man carrying their heavy stuff, giving up their seat, walking on the dangerous side of the street, working like a workhorse to provide for them, driving them around like a chauffeur and paying for their time and attention is not. Very ironic.

January 22, 2012

But whats the guarantee that a man will get in return what he gave? I mean American women dont even believe in waiting on a man hand and foot in the first place. They consider that demeaning while on the other hand a man carrying their heavy stuff, giving up their seat, walking on the dangerous side of the street, working like a workhorse to provide for them, driving them around like a chauffeur and paying for their time and attention is not. Very ironic.

Where the H do you live????? Honestly.......if a woman expects this of you, you will see it right away.....and ABORT. Because you're an intelligent man.

January 22, 2012

Where the H do you live????? Honestly.......if a woman expects this of you, you will see it right away.....and ABORT. Because you're an intelligent man.

What I mentioned are simply the typical behaviors that women demand out of a gentleman. Pay, alleviate, protect.

January 22, 2012

But whats the guarantee that a man will get in return what he gave? I mean American women dont even believe in waiting on a man hand and foot in the first place. They consider that demeaning while on the other hand a man carrying their heavy stuff, giving up their seat, walking on the dangerous side of the street, working like a workhorse to provide for them, driving them around like a chauffeur and paying for their time and attention is not. Very ironic.

Read my previous posts again. With the exception of situations that hilight mans physical superiority to women, I believe things should be equal between men and women. However, you hilighted a few things in that physical category.

I dont need someone to wait on me hand and foot because I am a fully capable adult. The only time I would even allow a woman to wait on me is on special occasions like my birthday if she insisted...or if I was injured and couldnt do everything myself for a little while. I would extend the same treatment to my woman though as well.

Moving on, I would carry a womans stuff because I am naturally stronger than she is and its easier for me to do so. Hell my dads in his 50s and Id carry stuff for him when he needs help, unless he absolutely insisted he's fine. Same goes for younger guy friends if they need help.

About giving up my seat...again, as a young man if someone seems tired or really needs a seat, Ill give it up. Im prolly more inclined to do so for a lady, but again, my body can take much more than the average gal.

Walking on the outside of the street is done for the same reason as the above. I used to do this with my ex because my 5'9 180 lb frame can take more punishment than her 5'2 105 lb frame. And no woman Ive dated hate expected me to be her workhorse. Screw that. Any physical work I do is because I choose to do so and because Im more capable than the average girl. But I still know plenty of gals who take pride in doing things themselves and dont always want a guy to help.

And about the chaffuer thing...where are you meeting these women? I never met a woman who flat out expected me to drive her around and buy her entertainment. Hell, the summer before my junior year I was trasnfering to university from community college. I didnt have my car for a week, so my ex drove me 45 minutes to orientation and 45 minutes back...almost being late for her first day at her new job. She bought me lunch as well.

She wasnt the best girl in the world, but she sure knew how to make a guy feel good when she wanted to...and knew how to be a friend. You should find some better gals...because these repetitive threads are too much dude.

Edited January 22, 2012 by kaylan

January 22, 2012

But whats the guarantee that a man will get in return what he gave? I mean American women dont even believe in waiting on a man hand and foot in the first place. They consider that demeaning while on the other hand a man carrying their heavy stuff, giving up their seat, walking on the dangerous side of the street, working like a workhorse to provide for them, driving them around like a chauffeur and paying for their time and attention is not. Very ironic.

I'm pretty strong, so I can lift things myself. Of course, if something is too heavy, I will ask if he can lift it for me since men are naturally stronger physically.

Giving up a seat for someone else is nice, but not expected. I'd give up my seat for an older person, someone who is disabled, or a small child, it's just common courtesy.

I wouldn't want either of us walking on the "dangerous side of the street".

I work, so I can provide for myself.

I prefer to drive my own vehicle, by myself.

Paying me for my time and attention, would make me an escort/hooker.

Would you like me to make you a nice juicy t-bone steak with some eggs?

January 22, 2012

I was a traditional "housewife." My husband worked all day at his office. I worked all day cooking, cleaning, taking care of all the domestic chores, as well as the children. It was a fair division of work.

Night and weekends, we shared other household duties.

Believe me, I got a lot crap from people who said I should be out working since I had a college degree. When I said feminism is about choice, I meant on BOTH sides. It's a choice to stay home and be more "traditional," as well a choice about working outside the home.

Men and women ARE equal partners, whatever their arrangement is. There is reciprocity. If a woman is cooking for her man, and taking care of him in those way, I will guarantee you he is doing something on the other side to take care of her.

Choice is the bottom line. It's a choice if a man wants to be a gentleman and a traditional financial provider (as a generalization). It's a choice if a woman wants to be more traditionally female.

I love it when a man opens doors for me. Plain and simple. I love it when a man treats me like a lady. I also enjoy cooking for him and taking care of him. It's important for me to partner with someone who values that, as well as reciprocates in whatever way makes me feel special and cared about.

What isn't okay, is the sense of entitlement on either side. A woman can't expect some guy to pay for everything while she sits back and takes. I get that. And a man can't expect to be waited on hand and foot by a woman simply because he feels she is beneath him and not his equal.

It goes to intent, as I said before. Kindness, respect and caring needs to be the spark of these actions.

If I'm a starving student and a rich man takes me out and pays for every date, then he is simply being generous and understands the context of the relationship, and that I can't give monetarily at the same rate. Of course, I will cook for him, run errands for him when he's too busy, and reciprocate the generosity in all I can give to make his life easier.

If I'm dating a guy who has also has little money, then we cook in all the time, and he might bring me daisies for a gift. I would love, that, too. It's about generosity and kindness. We share our resources. If I was the one with more money, I would pay for more. He might fix my car.

It's about giving what we have to each other, and taking care of each other. Not keeping score.

Rigid rules create rigid people. All situations and people are different. Look for a kind woman who will take care of you in the ways that are important to you, and you take care of her in the ways that are important to her.

And, yes, she is your equal partner, always.

Edited January 22, 2012 by blueskyday

January 22, 2012

When I said feminism is about choice, I meant on BOTH sides. It's a choice to stay home and be more "traditional," as well a choice about working outside the home.

Men and women ARE equal partners, whatever their arrangement is. There is reciprocity. If a woman is cooking for her man, and taking care of him in those way, I will guarantee you he is doing something on the other side to take care of her.

Choice is the bottom line. It's a choice if a man wants to be a gentleman and a traditional financial provider (as a generalization). It's a choice if a woman wants to be more traditionally female.

I love it when a man opens doors for me. Plain and simple. I love it when a man treats me like a lady. I also enjoy cooking for him and taking care of him. It's important for me to partner with someone who values that, as well as reciprocates in whatever way makes me feel special and cared about.

What isn't okay, is the sense of entitlement on either side. A woman can't expect some guy to pay for everything while she sits back and takes. I get that. And a man can't expect to be waited on hand and foot by a woman simply because he feels she is beneath him and not his equal.

Lovely post, and I echo it completely. Too bad it'll just go over the OP's head, as everything said to him over the past 2 years has, but hopefully some others will read it and appreciate the insight as I have.

January 22, 2012

Of course not all women are like this but too often you hear women going on and on about how much they hate men and how they don't need us and that they are better off without us then in the next breath ask where all the gentlemen went.

Why would any man want to be a gentlemen towards a woman who has that kind of attitude towards gender. For even the most loving woman dealing with a man that hates her does not bring out the loving instinct so why should it be different for a man. Why should men go out of our way to be polite and have manners towards women when so many have told us clearly how they really feel about us?

I

January 22, 2012

Being a "gentleman" or a "lady" is not conditional upon what some other people are doing or how they behave. I hope that most of us have established our own standards of how to be a stand-up, admirable person and try to act that way whether we're surrounded by raving asshats or acolytes of Mother Theresa.

January 22, 2012

I was married to a guy who expected me to do more than 50% of the chores while also paying 100% of the bills. It was expected that i would bring my paycheck home and place it next to his plate at dinner.

Now I live my life as a slut, it's a lot better lifestyle than being a faithful,mealy mouthed little wife ever was, lol, so you can take the "gentlemen and lady" crap and toss it in the garbage as far as I'm concerned,

Hey to each their own.

Edited January 22, 2012 by Michael30

January 22, 2012

Of course not all women are like this but too often you hear women going on and on about how much they hate men and how they don't need us and that they are better off without us then in the next breath ask where all the gentlemen went.

Why would any man want to be a gentlemen towards a woman who has that kind of attitude towards gender. For even the most loving woman dealing with a man that hates her does not bring out the loving instinct so why should it be different for a man. Why should men go out of our way to be polite and have manners towards women when so many have told us clearly how they really feel about us?

Quite frankly, I feel that about the only thing men have going for them hangs between their legs & as nice as the penis is, even it isn't worth the sacrifices required to be in a relationship with a guy. Having said that, let me also say that I don't expect men to be polite or "have manners" or anything else for that matter. Personally I prefer the out and out open contempt that a lot of men hold towards women.Why? because it's honest, it's the truth that lurks beneath that thin veneer of politeness & manners.

I'm self supporting, I pay cash money to have my driveway shoveled, my car serviced & any other task requiring physical strength, I also pay cash money to wine & dine men to get my Vjay serviced & to make sure the guy goes away afterwards... that's about as "loving" as it's ever going to get.

A guy wants warmth, back rubs, home cooking,laundry, a mealy mouthed lil'l step in fetch who'll serve him dinner and wait on him? let him go talk to his mother because frankly, I'm not interested.

January 22, 2012

I also pay cash money to wine & dine men to get my Vjay serviced & to make sure the guy goes away afterwards... that's about as "loving" as it's ever going to get.

Now that's some serious stuff...

Eek!

January 22, 2012

But whats the guarantee that a man will get in return what he gave?

No guarantees in the relationship world. If you want someone to wait on you then being a gentlemen simply isn't enough given that a "lady" will be fulfilling this requirement.

I mean American women dont even believe in waiting on a man hand and foot in the first place.

When put like this you are correct. But that's on you because there actually are women who do this depending on whether the man is worth putting in the effort for. You want this, then you can easily get this - but you need to prove yourself worthy!

.

January 22, 2012

Now that's some serious stuff...

Eek!

ah, no, what's "serious stuff" is marrying a penis & then being stuck supporting it to the tune of $2,750 per month plus add on's for the rest of your ilfe. Thanks but I'll rent my pricks from here on out.

Edited January 22, 2012 by soserious1

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