kaylan Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) Ive been wondering this for some time, and the other recent marriage thread compelled me to create this thread. I guess this topic is a segway from the other one, but not an attempt to steal its thunder. Check that thread out though:http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t312581/ Anyways, my question is just how many happy marriages or lengthy(several years) long term relationships exist out there. Relationships that have good communication despite any disagreements that may happen. Love despite the hard times that all relationships see. Sex despite things not being as super passionate as in the beginning. I wonder this because marriages and LTRs have a 50% fail rate as we all know. But then out of the people who do stay married, we have either known people, or read about people who just arent happy for whatever reason. Either the fires died out, or theres no communication and connection anymore, or the love just isnt the same. Its not rare that we here stories of people sticking it out because they have a sense of obligation to their spouse and family. But this worries me, as my view of monogamy has very much shifted in the past few years. I used to think life long monogamy was something some people could do, and other could not. But now Im starting to believe that relationships all run a beginning to end course. That eventually things are different, and as serial monogamists, thats not inherently bad, but a part of life. I used to think I was capable of falling in love and staying that way for years and years, but I havent had long relationships like my friends have had, so its not like ive been tested yet to see if it works for me. My best friend dated his first gf for 6 years. Other friends Ive had have had long relationships too, so I wonder if growing apart is something that just happens. I used to think Id be happy to get married in several years and be content with family life, but Im not sure if being romantically tied to one person for the rest of ones life is something I even want anymore. Ive grown to enjoy freedom being single, despite wanting good love. I guess Im starting to accept the fact that some good things come to an end, and when they do, to keep on trucking. Instead of hoping things will last forever if I meet a great girl, I feel ill tell myself to enjoy the good times, and if it ends, find more good times with a new girl. No expectations, ya know? Anyways, back to the main question. How many long partnerships do you think are actually happy relationships that both people want to be in out of desire, not just out of obligation. Edited January 20, 2012 by kaylan
carhill Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 (edited) My small data sample is a mixed bag. The vast majority are second marriages. In fact, the only first marriage of any length is my best friend's daughter, and they've been married 23. Prior, when I was M, that distinction was held by my SIL and her H, who got married at 17 and celebrated their 30th shortly before we split up. They, surprisingly, had one of the better M's I've seen. My parents were married 32 when my dad died but he was sick with cancer for most of my adult life so I really don't have a concrete opinion on their happiness from an adult perspective. The second M's for most of my friends are, IMO, 'real', in that discord and affection and love show transparently. IOW, they don't gloss over the difficulties and put on a fake smile when one isn't forthcoming naturally. Most of those M's are over 20 years now, with my best friend being the longest at 28. He was married 12 years to his first wife. From the outside looking in, and knowing enough of the inside to get me into trouble, I'd rate six out of ten as being demonstrably content and mutually satisfying, with the other four being various levels of happy and unhappy, tipping more to the unhappy side in my view (but not necessarily theirs). I don't really know anyone well who is in a LTR, meaning anyone unmarried who approaches the time lengths of my friend's M's, so can't comment on that. My exW has been with her BF for a couple years now and they seem to be doing OK, according to what my best friend tells me. That's about it. Edited January 20, 2012 by carhill added more
bean1 Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I know of plenty (off the top of my head, 60 years (my grandparents), 40 years (my neighbours), my aunt & uncle (25 years), 12 years (my best friends, which is not "long" but considering they were 15 when they met...) There are consistencies in the failed marriages and the strong ones. Strong marriages: grew old together with a single identity rather than live separate lives and then suddenly became strangers when the nest was empty. They value working on a difficult marriage rather than pissing off to "find their identity". They always put their relationship before their children, which in the end, benefited the child more. They did not engage in "single" behaviours like partying without their spouse, etc. They "dated" when married. The weak marriages I know of (my parents, which ended in my mom leaving for a young man after 31 years, all my other divorced aunts & uncles, etc... either grew apart and didn't know each other after the kids left (ie parents) or put their career ahead of their family (this IMO is going to be a huge reason for a surge in divorces with young married couples in the next little while... valuing money over family time, big mistake and will cost them in the end), or engaging in single behaviours (ie. going out to bars without their spouse on weekends). Marriage Builders talks about "affair proofing" your marriage, one major aspect being "UA" time (undivided attention, ie. DATING) during the week, not engaging in inappropriate relationships, etc And most of all, I think one major problem is always putting the individual above the family unit. No, I'm not saying to stay when your partner beats you - but there are people who would rather break up a marriage with 3 kids than work on it, because "YOUR (singular) happiness is always more important" in our western context. No surprise the divorce rate is horrendous. Sorry, we parents at least owe it to our children to make a real effort first
make me believe Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I wonder if growing apart is something that just happens. Growing apart doesn't just happen, it's something that people allow to happen to their marriage with the examples that bean cited. Not forming a single familial identity with their spouse, spending too much time with other people, putting work ahead of family, basically prioritizing ANYTHING above your marriage and not actively working on preserving/growing a bond with your spouse will cause you to "grow apart" from your spouse. And mostly I think people just act selfishly sometimes. I am so sick of hearing about married people who want to "find themselves" again and "live for themselves" or whatever. I also think that people expect marriage to be sunshine & roses all the time, and they don't put in the necessary work to get through the bad times. Additionally, some people get married hoping or assuming their spouse will change, or they ignore obvious red flags because they feel they've already put in too much time or money to pull out now. So they go ahead with the wedding, and a few years later when they can't stand it anymore they divorce, crying "woe is me" even though they willingly entered into the marriage with their eyes closed. Anyway, my in-laws are the inspiration for what my husband and I want our marriage to be like. They've been married for 44 years and seem genuinely happy, content, and in love with each other. My FIL still treats MIL like a lady - holding doors for her, opening her car door, carrying things for her, etc. They regularly take little trips away with each other, they are affectionate (holding hands, a hand rested on the leg, a hand on the small of the back, etc), they have fun & laugh, and they are just extremely loving and make it obvious that their marriage is their #1 priority. They're an amazing couple.
Stung Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 The 50% failure statistic is actually heavily debated and has been vastly misrepresented and oversimplified, btw. I don't have time to dig up all the articles discussing it at the moment, but if it's something that genuinely concerns you I suggest you look into it more deeply for yourself. There are many variables that most people don't understand when they start throwing around the 50% failure rate that "everyone knows about". Also, I should mention that while the majority of threads on the Marriage section of this site are big downers--because the majority of people who come to a relationship forum will come to it seeking help for a problem, naturally--it's pretty easy to run some searches on it and dig up plenty of happy threads, created solely to share the joys of some of the functional relationships that do exist on LS. You'll see my input in a lot of those threads, if you choose to go looking for them. I think I might have seen some similar threads in the Water Cooler section as well. Anyway, I'm happily married. My parents are happily married, over 40 years. I know way more about their sex life than I care to--let's just say they're happy empty nesters. They're best friends, they're retired, they travel the world, they take classes and docent at museums--it's a pretty sweet gig. Of course I know several people who have run the course of their relationships and reached the end, sometimes bitterly, sometimes more bittersweet--but most of the people in my circles are also fairly happily partnered up. I only know of one couple that stays together out of a sense of obligation, and literally everyone who knows about it thinks they're crazy. He cheated, she's been mentally punishing him ever since, everyone understands it's a hard situation all the way around but they've been sniping at each other and sleeping in separate rooms for seven years "for the kids" and everybody else in the world that I'm aware of--including all the married folks-- think they should just divorce and give their kid a break from all that tension.
FitChick Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 Everything depends on the two people involved. Period.
Quiet Storm Posted January 20, 2012 Posted January 20, 2012 I've been with my husband since 1991 and we are still happy. We still kiss, have sex, hold hands. We've had ups and downs through the years, but we both have the mindset that we are forever, so we always work it out. I think all marriages ebb & flow. The difference is that now, people are quick to pull the plug during the bad times. I think for many marriages, if you wait it out, the bad times will turn good again, and the low points will be a distant memory. Also, people have this idea that the limerance that happens in the first two years of a relationship should last forever, and get restless when those feelings start to fade. You have to realize that you may not always think about him 24/7 or want to rip his clothes off every night...and that's okay. New love may be urgent and uncertain, but mature love is steady, comfortable and constant. I love being married. I always have a partner and a companion. I have someone that lays in bed with me every night laughing at Letterman, someone to cry with when we grieve, someone to worry with now that our oldest has his learners permit, someone that knows every inch of me, inside & out lol, someone that jumped as high as me with pride when our youngest scored a hat trick & ran circles around the field, beaming. Someone to share in the joy & stress of raising these three awesome kids that we have.
GoodOnPaper Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Anyways, my question is just how many happy marriages or lengthy(several years) long term relationships exist out there. Relationships that have good communication despite any disagreements that may happen. Love despite the hard times that all relationships see. Sex despite things not being as super passionate as in the beginning. Don't underestimate beginnings . . . and I'm not sure that it's a valid assumption that both parties in every couple are equally crazy in love and passionate at the beginning. My wife was way more into me than I was into her -- you'd think that I would have embraced this considering how terrible I was/am at attracting women but I learned that having a woman approach you is only a good thing if you would have wanted to approach her in the first place. Once, a counselor told me that everyone thinks that everyone else's sex life is better but that's not actually the case. Likewise, most LTRs and marriages are probably not as bump-free as they seem on the surface -- likely only VERY close friends are privy to the bumps. It's interesting that on LS, most of the married women vehemently insist on the perfection of their marriages and husbands while men seem to express a lot more doubts. Personally, I think that most marriage problems are not actually "marriage" problems -- they are "single-person" problems brought in. Minimize those and I'd think that you would have just as much of a chance of having a fulfilling LTR as anyone.
Els Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Personally, in one for 4 and counting - not as long as some, but I'd probably consider anything above 2 a LTR. We had our share of rocky times but I wouldn't trade it for the world. As for others, I have seen seemingly happy couples who have been together for much longer, up to 30 years or so. I think it's difficult to comment on a relationship that you're not in, though, because many seem great on the surface but have pressurized cracks inside just waiting to implode.
make me believe Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 The 50% failure statistic is actually heavily debated and has been vastly misrepresented and oversimplified, btw. I don't have time to dig up all the articles discussing it at the moment, but if it's something that genuinely concerns you I suggest you look into it more deeply for yourself. There are many variables that most people don't understand when they start throwing around the 50% failure rate that "everyone knows about". THANK YOU for mentioning that! I was thinking of it when I read the OP, but I didn't want to get hounded by people demanding sources and stuff. I hate how everybody throws around "50% of marriages end in divorce" so casually. It normalizes divorce and failed marriages in a way that isn't even accurate.
Yamaha Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 FYI.... Married adults now divorce two-and-a-half times as often as adults did 20 years ago and four times as often as they did 50 years ago... between 40% and 60% of new marriages will eventually end in divorce. The probability within... the first five years is 20%, and the probability of its ending within the first 10 years is 33%... Perhaps 25% of children ages 16 and under live with a stepparent. ” —Brian K. Williams, Stacy C. Sawyer, Carl M. Wahlstrom, Marriages, Families & Intimate Relationships, 2005 copied from Wikipedia web site.
xxoo Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 We are very happy, and very in love We've been together 20+ years. Our sex life has stayed fun and satisfying, and has even surged in recent years since the kids are a bit older It's interesting that on LS, most of the married women vehemently insist on the perfection of their marriages and husbands while men seem to express a lot more doubts. That is interesting. I wonder if that has something to do with how men and women tend to use a message board like Loveshack? Would a man tend to spend time here if he was very happy and satisfied, or would a man only spend time here if he was looking to improve something? Our marriage isn't perfect, but we don't have any doubts, either. We are thoroughly enjoying our imperfect marriage, imperfect kids, imperfect life
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