Men: Have fun when dating- don't be so emotional

[Imajerk17]

I would tell you though not to see it as "I wasn't good enough for those women" and instead look at it as "they set the bar way too high and thus keep themselves single".

 

It's impossible for any man or woman to be the "perfection" many dream up.

 

No woman out there is going to have a perfect cover-girl face/body combined with a brain/education/career AND dress well AND has a heart of gold AND goes from lady to pornstar the moment she enters the bedroom AND won't have a high list of qualities her ideal man must have.

 

No man out there is going to look like Bradley Cooper, make big money, be fun, down-to-Earth, kind, sensitive, manly AND will want marriage/kids AND isn't holding out for some young trophy.

 

The point is some hold the bar too high, and one shouldn't feel down because they couldn't be deemed "worthy". They instead should see those folks as too picky and obviously not worth their time.

 

Hey grkBoy, good post. I have some somewhat related thoughts. And I would appreciate your commentary.

 

1. The women I have met online do indeed seem to be prone to (what I think sometimes are) unrealistic expectations not that they expect a guy who is in the top 1% of looks and income, but instead in that they expect "fast chemistry". It is either there on that first meeting or you won't see her again.

 

We men tend to be a lot less prone to this in that our way of being tends to be a lot more linear. As long as we like the girl's pictures and she looks as she did in her pictures, and her hygiene is good and she seems like a good person, we guys will be willing to meet up again for a second date, even if the conversation on the first meet was a little choppy. We tend to not put too much stock in this elusive thing called "chemistry".

 

I often feel that this focus on "chemistry" on the part of women is unrealistic (but then again we guys focus on looks so who are we to talk). Thing is though, "chemistry" just hard for it to develop when you just met someone and besides the "fast chemistry" often fades as fast as it comes. The chemistry thing often gets women to make some horrible decisions--see the threads here on LS.

 

Women who hate the PUA Community would do well to take a good hard look at their gender. It really is the way women date that has given rise to the Community, for better or for worse.

 

2. Stepping back from the process, I am still astounded by how bad women tend to treat men in OLD, and this goes beyond women's fixation with "instant chemistry". As in after we make contact. This is often how it goes: We make contact. We exchange phone numbers. We talk on the phone and make plans to meet up in a few days. Then in the few-day wait, we exchange a bunch of flirty texts. We then meet up. The meet-up goes OK. We (the guys) are gentlemen and pay. And then after that? Well, we would be willing to see her again. See 1. above, and besides our inboxes aren't being full of unsolicited emails from the opposite gender. The girl though, very often either "fades away" or ignores us completely. This, after we guys went through the trouble of planning a first meet, doing most of the driving, and then paying for it.

 

Anyway, she didn't feel "chemistry" so that seems to justify her ignoring you after that first meet. We guys are supposed to take the high road and keep on shrugging off this type of discourteous treatment from women we meet online. But yes it does get old.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Imajerk17

[Mr_Flay]

We then meet up. The meet-up goes OK. We (the guys) are gentlemen and pay. And then after that? Well, we would be willing to see her again. See 1. above, and besides our inboxes aren't being full of unsolicited emails from the opposite gender. The girl though, very often either "fades away" or ignores us completely.

 

Yes, you've nailed it! I've had at least 20 such meet-ups, and it's one of the reasons why I gave up on OLD. I still maintain a profile, but only respond to girls who approach me first. And I ask to meet her quickly, within a week, so I'm not doing endless e-mailing anymore.

 

You know how PUA advocates the "abundance mentality"? Guess what, women practice it too, especially in OLD, and that's why instant chemistry has to happen for them. When I met my ex-girlfriend, there wasn't any love at first sight, but she did go out with me a couple of times, and soon I grew on her. I'm guessing it would be a totally different situation had she been on OLD with dozens of guys asking to meet her.

 

So yeah, this is where we lose. It's not that we're inadequate, it's that we're never given a proper chance. Not everyone is a Don Juan. I wish I knew the magic words and postures that could make a girl's panties wet in 10 minutes, but I don't. I'm a decent, confident guy that takes at least two dates to become really comfortable. No months of acting like a friend, just two dates. And maybe some flirty messages inbetween.

[Radu]

Quick thread before I go studio.....

 

Was talking to my brother and one of his (many) female friends yesterday (very good looking). It struck me that his demeanor has always been one of fun and outright cheekiness. My brother is naturally very cocky at times, but at the heart of it, lies someone who literally doesn't put much stock in his encounters with women.

 

I am learning to do the same, and I have noticed I'm having much more fun talking to women, and it's serving me well so far, and will get better.

 

So guys, lets make a more concerted effort to have more fun and relax instead of building up all this madness in our heads leading up to "asking her out", making it a straight yes or no thing. Let's just make it fun!

 

O u t c o m e

I n d e p e n d e n t

[Radu]

 

So yeah, this is where we lose. It's not that we're inadequate, it's that we're never given a proper chance. Not everyone is a Don Juan. I wish I knew the magic words and postures that could make a girl's panties wet in 10 minutes, but I don't. I'm a decent, confident guy that takes at least two dates to become really comfortable. No months of acting like a friend, just two dates. And maybe some flirty messages inbetween.

 

This is basically my problem.

 

I'm the type of guy who does not talk much when you meet him.

I will sit in the corner at parties and watch ppl, or listen to them.

I always do that, no matter if it's a party, or just meeting someone new.

Becoming a little outcome independent has helped me here, enough to keep trying.

 

Instant chemistry is ... impossible for me, i have literally never had a girl check me out with those eyes that say 'OMG'.

It's only happened after repeated exposures and often after finally starting to open my mouth.

 

This is why i don't do online dating [that and a horrible experience ... my first date ever was with someone i met online].

[TheGuard13]

I don't think it's about not being emotional, or not taking it seriously.

 

Getting involved with people is a serious thing. People without emotions, people who are apathetic and who act like they don't care tend to be kind of boring. Women want men with confidence. Not caring about losing her is one thing. Not caring at all? Something else entirely.

 

I think the lesson to learn is to enjoy people you are interacting with, regardless of whether it will go anywhere. Truth is, you never know what the future holds.

[StanMusial]

O u t c o m e

I n d e p e n d e n t

 

This is a concept some sports psychologists and coaches teach. So it applies to more than dating. Important to understand to deal with fear of failure/rejection.

[grkBoy]

1. The women I have met online do indeed seem to be prone to (what I think sometimes are) unrealistic expectations not that they expect a guy who is in the top 1% of looks and income, but instead in that they expect "fast chemistry". It is either there on that first meeting or you won't see her again.

 

We men tend to be a lot less prone to this in that our way of being tends to be a lot more linear. As long as we like the girl's pictures and she looks as she did in her pictures, and her hygiene is good and she seems like a good person, we guys will be willing to meet up again for a second date, even if the conversation on the first meet was a little choppy. We tend to not put too much stock in this elusive thing called "chemistry".

 

I often feel that this focus on "chemistry" on the part of women is unrealistic (but then again we guys focus on looks so who are we to talk). Thing is though, "chemistry" just hard for it to develop when you just met someone and besides the "fast chemistry" often fades as fast as it comes. The chemistry thing often gets women to make some horrible decisions--see the threads here on LS.

 

Women who hate the PUA Community would do well to take a good hard look at their gender. It really is the way women date that has given rise to the Community, for better or for worse.

 

I'd agree in a lot of this. I think the problem though is many women (and even men) still look at OLD as a "step down", so they're online figuring the only way they'll even fathom dating someone is if they're some over-the-top amazing man or woman.

 

I also sometimes wonder if they purposely set themselves up to fail in OLD. If they still see it as this "step down" and tell themselves they'll try it for a few months and then quit. Thus they do everything they can to fail so they simply can say "OLD never worked for me...waste of time".

 

The chemistry part I've seen even offline. In actuality, women are creatures of emotion over logic. This isn't a pot shot at them, but a stated truth in how the genders differ. Men will think more logically and thus feel if she looks good on paper then most likely she'll be ideal. Women still need "butterflies" in the stomach, pangs of excitement, and other emotional reactions to get into a guy.

 

Women can hate on the PUA thing, but I mainly look at it as a reaction to this. However, the one problem with PUA is it shows guys how to get the girl, but not on how to keep her. Some will then decide to stay single and enjoy picking up different women. Others will want the RL, but fail in it because they simply cannot fathom how to be a boyfriend...and I'm not speaking of being dumped because of something trivial like you didn't lower the toilet seat, but bigger things that become major red flags.

 

 

2. Stepping back from the process, I am still astounded by how bad women tend to treat men in OLD, and this goes beyond women's fixation with "instant chemistry". As in after we make contact. This is often how it goes: We make contact. We exchange phone numbers. We talk on the phone and make plans to meet up in a few days. Then in the few-day wait, we exchange a bunch of flirty texts. We then meet up. The meet-up goes OK. We (the guys) are gentlemen and pay. And then after that? Well, we would be willing to see her again. See 1. above, and besides our inboxes aren't being full of unsolicited emails from the opposite gender. The girl though, very often either "fades away" or ignores us completely. This, after we guys went through the trouble of planning a first meet, doing most of the driving, and then paying for it.

 

Anyway, she didn't feel "chemistry" so that seems to justify her ignoring you after that first meet. We guys are supposed to take the high road and keep on shrugging off this type of discourteous treatment from women we meet online. But yes it does get old.

 

That's dating in general. I've only been out on one date from OLD in my life...and yet I've seen this "no chemistry" thing happen many times to me. I admit it. I'm not the kind of guy who makes women hot and wet within a short period. Most of my exes were women who knew me for a year or so, and thus fell for my personality.

 

As for the OLD behavior, there's a couple of different angles to this.

 

Some of these women are the types IRC333 likes to point out. Where they've been on OLD for a year or more, and yet are chronically single. It seems she's never satisfied and always is seeking some insanely high echelon of male that never comes. That or they're the ones looking to fail in OLD so they can dismiss it whenever someone tells them to make a profile.

 

Many women who "spell it out" on their profiles are doing this on a reactionary level. Maybe they started talking to a guy online, and then he's quickly trying to get her out on a date that week. Some women have spoken how the guy tried to kiss her or make inklings of sex on first dates. Many of course have dealt with guys who have fragile egos...so when she's not feeling it and politely rejects him, the guy becomes a crazy whiny lunatic.

 

Then of course, there's the ones who seem to use OLD more as therapy. The ones who write paragraphs about the liar who broke her heart, or the losers who message her and become drama queens.

 

 

 

I honestly wish chemistry wasn't such a big factor. In the "old days", women picked men who could take care of them and such. Chemistry was nice, but not as high a priority. Now with women's lib and sexual revolution, women have no need for men other than sexual. So chemistry has become everything.

[Mr_Flay]

I honestly wish chemistry wasn't such a big factor. In the "old days", women picked men who could take care of them and such. Chemistry was nice, but not as high a priority. Now with women's lib and sexual revolution, women have no need for men other than sexual. So chemistry has become everything.

 

Oh, I think all genders are entitled to great chemistry, people only need to learn to wait for it. Like tango, this takes two people. Nobody can expect to go on a date, and then just sit there and be swept of his/her feet. It's a process between two people that has to be developed through conversation and doing activities together. I like to compare romance with cooking – nobody has patience for healthy slow food these days; most want fast food. And fast food is usually junk. Still, everybody complains about obesity.

[somedude81]

Oh, I think all genders are entitled to great chemistry, people only need to learn to wait for it. Like tango, this takes two people. Nobody can expect to go on a date, and then just sit there and be swept of his/her feet. It's a process between two people that has to be developed through conversation and doing activities together. I like to compare romance with cooking – nobody has patience for healthy slow food these days; most want fast food. And fast food is usually junk. Still, everybody complains about obesity.

Do you seriously expect women to wait for chemistry?

[Mr_Flay]

No, I don't expect it as such, I've no right to expect anything from anyone, but it'd be nice. And it'd solve a lot of problems all three or four genders face.

[Lonely Ronin]

Oh, I think all genders are entitled to great chemistry, people only need to learn to wait for it. Like tango, this takes two people. Nobody can expect to go on a date, and then just sit there and be swept of his/her feet. It's a process between two people that has to be developed through conversation and doing activities together. I like to compare romance with cooking – nobody has patience for healthy slow food these days; most want fast food. And fast food is usually junk. Still, everybody complains about obesity.

 

I completely disagree, great chemistry can happen on the first date. I have had this happen twice in the last 6 months, and several other times during my dating life as well.

[Mr_Flay]

I completely disagree, great chemistry can happen on the first date. I have had this happen twice in the last 6 months, and several other times during my dating life as well.

 

It's great when it happens and it's certainly possible, but I was talking about the situations in which it doesn't. The dilemma is: should you continue seeing a person with whom you've got no immediate chemistry, but who has some attractive qualities, or should you immediately dump them and move on to the next person, in search for that ever elusive chemistry.

[Imajerk17]

@grkBoy:

 

1) Yes indeed women are emotional creatures. The "chemistry" thing is what women are looking for. For better or for worse.

 

For what it is worth, many dating coaches for women in their late 30's and beyond who want to get married, are advising these women to rachet down their focus on chemistry somewhat and give it more of a chance to develop (a few dates instead of only one).

 

2) Interesting analysis on the women in irc333's posts. I agree with this. I sometimes also suspect though, that the women whom irc333 posts about don't take responsibility for their dating lives--as in the following: These women made their choices due to "chemistry" even when "logic" was saying it was a bad decision. And when the choices made due to "chemistry" indeed show to be bad decisions, these women, instead of taking responsibility, have their guard up towards men, PARTICULARLY the "nice guys" like irc333 who might not have the charm to break through their defenses (as did the last bad boy they dated did).

 

That's not to say that I think irc333's threads are serving him though. I don't. And in general, the pool of "datable" people in a small town/rural area is just really small. Most people stick to their social circle. I just don't think irc's fortunes are going to change unless he moves.

 

3) Yes indeed. Many women do feel justified to do the fade-away/poof. Both from OLD and off. One such reason is because of the grief they took when they were forthright with someone. It's just easier for them to vanish. It has been discussed on this very forum. However I still don't feel that it justifies it. Especially with all the avenues for written communication available.

 

 

@Mr_Flay: I agree.

 

And getting back to the OP, a relaxed casual attitude is great at generating attraction. Easier said than done often but I agree with his premise.

Edited April 5, 2013 by Imajerk17

[Radu]

This is a concept some sports psychologists and coaches teach. So it applies to more than dating. Important to understand to deal with fear of failure/rejection.

 

Exactly ... or in simple terms 'don't give a sh*t'.

Go and try to have fun, and see what happens.

 

I have tried to apply it first to my normal life, in all interactions because i had anxiety when dealing with ppl ... lots of anxiety [think avoidant personality disorder].

I used it to learn to care less about the 'losses'.

 

I did not apply it romantically since i'm celibate atm, but becoming more outcome independent has actually boosted the attention i'm getting from women.

[Radu]

 

Women can hate on the PUA thing, but I mainly look at it as a reaction to this. However, the one problem with PUA is it shows guys how to get the girl, but not on how to keep her. Some will then decide to stay single and enjoy picking up different women. Others will want the RL, but fail in it because they simply cannot fathom how to be a boyfriend...and I'm not speaking of being dumped because of something trivial like you didn't lower the toilet seat, but bigger things that become major red flags.

I wish i came up with this paragraph, because it is the defining flaw i see in PUA.

The fact that most [99%] of the ones who get into it go with expectations of being handed the magic pill/word/phrase/motion that will get them hot and bothered.

Sure, copy Mystery and you might get a lot of ONS ... but don't cry when any woman you try to have a LTR with runs for the hills because she saw under your cloak.

 

 

I honestly wish chemistry wasn't such a big factor. In the "old days", women picked men who could take care of them and such. Chemistry was nice, but not as high a priority. Now with women's lib and sexual revolution, women have no need for men other than sexual. So chemistry has become everything.

You know what this translates into ?

 

Making big bucks as a therapist.

I should look into it, maybe i can become a therapist with just a Master+PhD in Psychology.