Thieves Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 The way they spoke was charming, well-paced, effortless delivery in what they said and how they said it, didn't rush. No needless intonations in their voices, never fluctuated and got higher (Leonard in Big Bang Theory comes to mind). Haha! Love that show. The best thing is that a lot of these attributes are not limited to the player alone. Anyone can cultivate them, and not be a player. Exactly. The men who try and cultivate those skills/attributes and, instead of becoming full-blown players who deceive women, use those skills to do well with compatible women for themselves... those are the ones who end up doing the best in the end. Or so I like to think!
ThaWholigan Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Haha! Love that show. So do I . Exactly. The men who try and cultivate those skills/attributes and, instead of becoming full-blown players who deceive women, use those skills to do well with compatible women for themselves... those are the ones who end up doing the best in the end. Or so I like to think! They usually do. It's hard for some of them to turn down girls though when it's so easy, some of them lose respect for women after a while. The ones that do turn it down, tend to have better relationships with women, often of high quality too. But they don't base their worth on the women they date, they validate themselves and pursue their own personal goals. That seems to be very sexy to women and they are always happy to be a part of your journey, even when they are on their own path to personal glory (not at the expense of either path).
Feelsgoodman Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) I spent an evening with a couple friends tonight. One of them is a self described player. He regaled us with some tales of his recent conquests. While listening, I think I came to a definite conclusion about myself. I could never be a player like him. Even though I've been burned in a ton of relationships, I still can't do it. I'm absolutely certain that what stops me is that deep down, I just don't want to hurt anyone. Maybe it's just a variation of that "White Knight Syndrome". That probably makes me a douchebag, but I don't think I can change it. I hear what you're saying. I don't particularly like hurting people either. I don't think it's the "White Knight Syndrome". It really boils down to one's upbringing. If you had a fairly sheltered childhood in a safe and loving environment and were raised to be a "good person", it stays with you for life. Fundamental mental programming. Ever wonder why black males are more likely to exhibit the characteristics of the so-called players than men of other races? It's no coincidence that black men also tend to have pretty sh*tty childhoods, being raised in the ghetto by welfare moms and not knowing their daddies are and all that. You don't become a nice person if the world around you is not a nice place...and likewise, you don't become a "heartless player" if the world around you is a nice place. Edited January 19, 2012 by Feelsgoodman
Anela Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 From what you stated, it sounded like he didn't mistreat you in any way, shape, or form...but he just wouldn't commit. Then he one day just ended it quickly because he found some other girl. No, he used her, plying her with promises the whole time, and making excuses for his not committing 100% to the relationship - and then told her she was unattractive, when he met someone he wanted to be with. Any decent guy would not have done that.
somedude81 Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 How does a player speak in a charming way?
thatone Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 How does a player speak in a charming way? you make mundane conversation humorous or anticipatory, by the way you say things. it's misdirection, encouraging positive response, leading people to say and think what you want them to say and think, and complimenting them in an offhanded way to make them feel comfortable in following you and talking to you. and as i said in another thread it doesn't denote lies and dishonesty. i don't lie to women, i don't need to. all of my stories are true. just have a way of telling them.
somedude81 Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 you make mundane conversation humorous or anticipatory, by the way you say things. it's misdirection, encouraging positive response, leading people to say and think what you want them to say and think, and complimenting them in an offhanded way to make them feel comfortable in following you and talking to you. and as i said in another thread it doesn't denote lies and dishonesty. i don't lie to women, i don't need to. all of my stories are true. just have a way of telling them. Can you provide any examples? I can't really picture what you're talking about from the details given.
MarMarMar Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 From what I've seen, the true players I've seen have a very charming and charismatic personality(at least up from) and like to lay it on thick.
Dust Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Very good points! I honestly think the last reason is almost 60% of the reason why players are so damn dangerous, yet addictive to some women out there (who don't know better until it's obviously too late and their hearts are in shreds.) It's how, although these players have ulterior motives in their actions and underlying intentions in most of the words they spew out to these women, they can make a woman feel like she is understood. For them, that may have been something lacking in their past relationships. Understand this I want to see you naked and do perverted things your female brain could never understand like sniffing your panties should the urge arise... sniffing everything else too! No ulterior motives! They can also be very good at creating 'nice distractions'. But at the very least' date=' players are able to imitate a good connection really well. They are very adept at giving the woman a lot of good 'attention' that she almost forgets if she's [i']actually[/i] being treated well in the relationship, as she is so caught up with how he makes her feel. I feel like player is this word girls just throw out. The guys who are players are so fricken obvious. I mean what are they imitating guys who date lots of girls... Also girls will just call any guy a player. Its like stalker the word has lost meaning. It's how they make them feel' date=' which is usually "liked", irresistable, fun, sexy, exceptionally interesting, and valued. They [i']seem[/i] to listen to everything you say, remember things about you, observe common body language in women and play off that. They know how to tease you in a way that keeps you thinking about them, which is why they are able to string many girls along. That is lethal with some women, especially if they're insecure or have had their heart broken more than a few times... Yes we all love insecure heart broken women, they'll do anything! Except you Thieves now show us what you look like! I mean what kind of world is it comming to when we all know what Woggle, Wolf, and Somedude (with out his shirt) look like but we can't see you! haha
Anela Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Yes we all love insecure heart broken women, they'll do anything! Please tell me you're joking. I may be feeling better, but even at my lowest, I wasn't out screwing players.
Dust Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Please tell me you're joking. I may be feeling better, but even at my lowest, I wasn't out screwing players. I'm not a player Anela and you're smiling so you enjoyed that!
oren ish Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Women "fall" for players because frankly...they are "hot" or have money. I don't get why people think there is some complex science behind it...there just isn't. I overhear players talking to women here and there at school or grocery shopping, and I just cannot believe women don't see through the thinly veiled BS. I know for a fact if I talked or behaved like a lot of these so called players do, I'd be even less attractive to women than i am now. Good looking guy with the personality of Dana Carvey in Wayne's World : Player. Ugly/short/balding/poor guy with the personality of Dana Carvey in Wayne's World: Dana Carvey. i don't agree with this... Sure its feathers in their cap and a strong minded woman will know what she wants but even they can be bamboozled down in to curiosity... the thing about it is the mystery/slash confidence... I have a few mates that heatseek strong women because its to easy some of the time... what works probably shouldnt be allowed but it does... men are mechanical women are emotional, its the basic root of the differences in attraction... a player gets hurt if he ever falls for a women and she turns it back on him... seen it happen quite a bit...
Sanman Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Women "fall" for players because frankly...they are "hot" or have money. I don't get why people think there is some complex science behind it...there just isn't. I overhear players talking to women here and there at school or grocery shopping, and I just cannot believe women don't see through the thinly veiled BS. I know for a fact if I talked or behaved like a lot of these so called players do, I'd be even less attractive to women than i am now. Good looking guy with the personality of Dana Carvey in Wayne's World : Player. Ugly/short/balding/poor guy with the personality of Dana Carvey in Wayne's World: Dana Carvey. It is not just money that does it. Many players know that flash/sizzle are often more effective than substance. For example, one of the richest friends I have makes ~175k a year and drives a Honda accord hand me down from his parents and shops at Sears, Kohls, and Target. He owns his own home and has money in savings/investments for retirement. Some the poorest friends I have drive Acuras and BMWs but often cannot pay the repair bill and are carless. They also wear the nicest clothes, but they live at home and hate paying their fair share at dinner when the bill comes. Guess who gets more women? I was out with friends at a bar. I met some girls and they joined at our table. A good friend of mine talked with one of them for two hours about economics and other things (they were both in the field). I talked to her for all of 10 minutes when we were drunk about masturbation, vibrators, and SATC. Guess which one of us she gave her number to at the end of the night and got a 3 am booty call from her? Then again, I was dressed in cooler clothes, in better shape, and have the fancy title in front of my name. However, that is all flash (I was a resident at the time and made less money than my friend). My bet is this. Any guy that can make six figures in the sales game can probably also be a player.
Taramere Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 I like to think of the characters in Reservoir Dogs when I'm thinking of players. Mr Blonde. Psychopath. Handsome and capable of projecting a laid back demeanour when it serves his interests. Getting played by him means you're co-operating fully and therefore have his approval. Getting raped/abused by him means you aren't, and don't. Mr Pink. Miserly, highly strung monstrosity who doesn't see why his shortcomings should be any barrier to success with women. Doesn't believe in chivalry - particularly where it costs money. Uses PUA theory as an excuse for not standing his round in the pub. "I'm not being miserly, I'm 'gaming' my friends". Nice Guy Eddie. If you could overlook the obesity, bad dress sense and criminal thug aspects, would possibly be a relatively loyal and generous partner. Might feel some level of guilt about cheating on, lying to and occasionally beating up his girlfriend/wife...but would be able to rationalise it without too much problem. Aided and abetted by his father and Mr Blonde. Nice Guy Eddie's father. Too old to be a player, but likes to play vicariously through younger men, dispensing out of date advice as he tries to keep them in line. Possesses a set of old fashioned ethics about women, which he preaches in a noisy and gruff manner...but could depart from quite easily if ever opportunity knocks (which, realistically, it probably won't). Mr Orange. Nice Guy who tries to be a player and then feels dreadful about it. Lets the side down by getting "oneitis" Mr White. Compassionate player who is also prone to oneitis but nonetheless cheats and lies to his one, and even hits her when he gets overly tired and emotional. When he gets caught cheating by his devastated one, tries to play all uncaring hard man, telling her "you're going to be okay-ay, you're going to be okay-ay". Then empathy gets the better of him, and he dissolves into tears. Mr Brown. Talks a good game, and is convinced he knows all about women...but is "AMOGd" before he's even started. Nonetheless, continues to direct other men from the sidelines.
betterdeal Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) The ladies (and especially you - you know who you are ) have all made fascinating observations on this thread. It's not just what you say, but how you frame it; your skill with words; how you make them cascade like shards of sound gently and magnificently around, in careful disarray, only to coalesce at the last moment into the perfect, intricate, shape. Ideas explained and presented like the greatest of snowflakes. Okay, so whose turn is to lavish compliments now? Maybe that would be more fun than bickering. Change is as good as a rest... Edited January 19, 2012 by betterdeal
zengirl Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 I think a lot of people assume women who fall for players are stupid and just like bad boys. Going from my own experiences, I think it's more likely that a woman is naive (not the same thing as stupid) and perhaps a little too trusting... ironically, the exact thing you're supposed to be to land a relationship. This is why I said many girls might get involved with a player when they are young. But the ones who are relatively healthy grow out of it, because they see what's happening. Also, there are different types of "players." Some have said that players love women, and some have said that players really don't like women --- there really are different types out there. I have a friend who is a major player who is really kind, generous, and not a bit misogynistic. He just isn't looking for anything serious, he's very attractive to women, and he's very upfront with them. Some still get played, but they 'play' themselves by thinking he's just looking for the right girl and not believing his very upfront and obvious truths that he isn't BF material. Then, there are players who lie, cheat, and everything else just to drop some panties, and they don't even think of the women as people but just pleasure-centers. And there's a whole spectrum in between. Most guys who are not players permanently but in a player-phase are rebounding hard, so they're just a general psychological minefield. Why anyone wants to deal with that, seems weird to me. But it's the special thing and the self-destructive thing I detailed.
thatone Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Can you provide any examples? I can't really picture what you're talking about from the details given. any and everything can be turned around into an offhand flirtatious comment. "what did you do today?" "i did xyz, but didn't get done, was kinda tired, been flirting with this girl on the phone too much and didn't get a lot of sleep" ...with her knowing full well that she's the girl in question. there's little/no pressure in misdirecting comments in the third person, it's suggestive but there's no pressure to reply in any way, she can respond however she wants and then you can demonstrate that you like how she responded. if she's shy you like shy, if she's sarcastic you like sarcastic, etc. and laughing at her jokes, laughing at her stories. the non-funny stories agreeing with her, and telling her you have EXACTLY the same opinion, then joking about it..."are you reading my mind? stop pulling words out of my head, those are my words". and then mimicking her crutch phrases. if she says "here's the thing" or "i don't know about you but" to preface her thoughts then you start using that crutch phrase, it suggests compatibility. when telling your own stories, drawing them out, taking pauses at high points and adding a little eloquence to how you say them, and when you present an opinion prefacing it with "i'm sure you already know this but..." and inviting her to agree with you. creating little inside jokes that only the two of you know about. with the last girl i've been talking to it's the analogy of "showing cards" as in revealing your hand too soon. i'll reveal some sort of attraction to her and then say "oops i'm showing another card". and you can save those references and bring them up anytime to conjure that mood. doesn't matter whether it's a day later or a week later i can answer the question of "what are you up to?" with "playing cards with you", and without saying more than one sentence the flirtatious mood of the last conversation is back. some better suited to the phone, some better suited in person, but you get the idea. it's subtlety, suggestion, offhanded compliments, and showing genuine interest in what she has to say. i'm sure everyone has their own methods but the above are mine.
GoodOnPaper Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Some have said that players love women, and some have said that players really don't like women --- there really are different types out there. I have a friend who is a major player who is really kind, generous, and not a bit misogynistic. He just isn't looking for anything serious, he's very attractive to women, and he's very upfront with them. Some still get played, but they 'play' themselves by thinking he's just looking for the right girl and not believing his very upfront and obvious truths that he isn't BF material. Hence the paradox that trying to make yourself into good "BF material" has the opposite effect on women than what you intend. It seems to be pretty hopeless if you can't master that elusive attraction quality -- even an LTR or marriage ends up just as unsatisfying as being single.
thatone Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 The ladies (and especially you - you know who you are ) have all made fascinating observations on this thread. It's not just what you say, but how you frame it; your skill with words; how you make them cascade like shards of sound gently and magnificently around, in careful disarray, only to coalesce at the last moment into the perfect, intricate, shape. Ideas explained and presented like the greatest of snowflakes. Okay, so whose turn is to lavish compliments now? Maybe that would be more fun than bickering. Change is as good as a rest... yes, precisely, the above. you know how some books are boring and mundane because they're just descriptions, and others are entertaining despite the subject matter because things are detailed with passion and clever word arrangement? that's it, making yourself seem truly passionate and knowledgeable about the subject, whatever the subject is.
betterdeal Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 And be animate, and react. If you aren't animate and you don't react, if you're not playful in other words, well, where's the fun in that? Why would they want to do that? Why would you want to do that? And you can develop passion by acting passionately, just as you can develop happiness or sadness or laughter or confidence by physically acting it out and, before you know it, your subconscious catches up with your conscious mind and starts being passionate / confident / unhappy / happy / fearful / playful / whatever you set your mind to being. Practice the things you want to be, and you will become them.
thatone Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 and how do you do that... you experience things. bullsh*t only goes so far. do things, learn things, in detail. whatever those things are, doesn't matter. be a more interesting person and the opposite sex will find you more...interesting. it's not rocket science.
zengirl Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 Hence the paradox that trying to make yourself into good "BF material" has the opposite effect on women than what you intend. It seems to be pretty hopeless if you can't master that elusive attraction quality -- even an LTR or marriage ends up just as unsatisfying as being single. Not really. As I said, while young women who won't follow the pattern can sometimes fall into a player situation once or twice in their late teens/early twenties, it is a very particular subset of women and/or women who are just as much in a phase where they aren't ready for a relationship either who perpetually date players or get involved in that drama. So, men who are truly seeking LTRs are not hindered in finding healthy women who seek the same --- maybe in HS or a little bit in college, sure, but many shy women struggle with dating in that time as well --- unless they are unable to spot those women (the inverse of the player, I suppose) for who they are. Many "nice" (not truly nice but the guys with the "nice guy" complex, which is also an issue) chase such women with some kind of entitlement complex, like just because the woman perpetually is either treated badly or sets herself up for disappointment (as I said, some ladies 'play' themselves by delusion) that treating her nice and lavishing her with positive attention would attract her; some even feel entitled to date such women! That's. . . silly, since it's the opposite of what she generally seeks. And it's equally as much of an issue to chase after those wrong girls as those girls have in dating players. There's no Catch-22. There are just an array of different psychological states and dating goals involved. It's not that players do "better" with women than other men; they simply have different goals. Plenty of men who seek a LTR find a LTR without any of the player or player-bait drama.
betterdeal Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 and how do you do that... you experience things. bullsh*t only goes so far. do things, learn things, in detail. whatever those things are, doesn't matter. be a more interesting person and the opposite sex will find you more...interesting. it's not rocket science. Rocket surgery, I think you mean. Bull**** can get the ball rolling. Then you have to run with it.
thatone Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 yes, rocket surgery, exactly. so go forth somedude, and practice your rocket surgery, and brain mechanic'ing, and bullsh*tting of the truth, then you'll be getting laid so often that you bore of women and need new hobbies. at which point you will have more bullsh*t to talk about and thus become even more interesting, creating an alternate downward spiral. then join the priesthood, but don't touch the little boys, they frown on that sort of thing.
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