EnigmaticClarity Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 *shrugs* I always did find what some people consider to be 'empowering' to women pretty amusing. Sky-high stiletto heels 'empower women' - um, sure, if you like hordes of guys looking at your behind, taking 3 steps to a man's one and not being able to run if required. Having sex with random guys is 'girl power, babe' - really? In what way? Going out with a guy, dressing up to the nines (in ways that conform to all society's expectations of what a woman -should- look like, no less) while he shows up in a tee and khakis, and then insisting to death on footing half the bill is empowering - okay, if you say so. I'm not judging anyone who does any of the above, but I -am- judging people who do the above just because they want to be 'empowered', or do all the above and boast about being 'an empowered, modern female' because of it. Trust me, NONE of the men around you are thinking 'oh, she's such a powerful gal' just because of that. I doubt most of the women are, either. If you feel good about yourself doing all that, by all means do so, but believing that people view you as 'empowered' because you do that is just... being deluded. It could possibly be 'empowering' in the way that women are able to make the choice to do that. But in that case, basically anything a woman chooses to do for herself is empowering - be it sleeping with random guys and dressing scantily, or dressing conservatively and waiting til marriage to have sex. On the contrary, doing all the above just because you feel an 'empowered' woman should, constantly calling yourself that, and judging other women who don't do the same things, is pretty much the antithesis of empowered. Huh? Power need not be recognized to be powerful, it need only be capable of being used at will by the person possessing it. Just because you don't approve of what empowers some women doesn't mean that it isn't power nor that it doesn't improve their self-image. Terribly judgmental post. I'm not at all advocating the behavior you're describing, but your slant on it is horribly subjective.
Emilia Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 *shrugs* I always did find what some people consider to be 'empowering' to women pretty amusing. Sky-high stiletto heels 'empower women' - um, sure, if you like hordes of guys looking at your behind, taking 3 steps to a man's one and not being able to run if required. Having sex with random guys is 'girl power, babe' - really? In what way? Going out with a guy, dressing up to the nines (in ways that conform to all society's expectations of what a woman -should- look like, no less) while he shows up in a tee and khakis, and then insisting to death on footing half the bill is empowering - okay, if you say so. I'm not judging anyone who does any of the above, but I -am- judging people who do the above just because they want to be 'empowered', or do all the above and boast about being 'an empowered, modern female' because of it. Trust me, NONE of the men around you are thinking 'oh, she's such a powerful gal' just because of that. I doubt most of the women are, either. If you feel good about yourself doing all that, by all means do so, but believing that people view you as 'empowered' because you do that is just... being deluded. It could possibly be 'empowering' in the way that women are able to make the choice to do that. But in that case, basically anything a woman chooses to do for herself is empowering - be it sleeping with random guys and dressing scantily, or dressing conservatively and waiting til marriage to have sex. On the contrary, doing all the above just because you feel an 'empowered' woman should, constantly calling yourself that, and judging other women who don't do the same things, is pretty much the antithesis of empowered. Yes being able to do what you want to do is what empowerment is. Not being made to conform to a social or gender stereotype is what empowerment is. I could ridicule you for waiting for full sex until you get married, for many it's a dated concept. People will judge each other, anyone who says judgement should be ruled out is deluded but you should be ALLOWED what you want to do without feeling bad about it. Sky-high stilettos and all that are aspects of someone's sexuality and it's often a fetish. It isn't just about wanting to attract any Tom, Dick and Harry, it's about displaying a certain image - sometimes for voyeuristic reasons No-one should be forced to repress their sexuality in order to make them fit into neat little boxes to make the rest of the world feel better.
Els Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) Huh? Power need not be recognized to be powerful, it need only be capable of being used at will by the person possessing it. Just because you don't approve of what empowers some women doesn't mean that it isn't power nor that it doesn't improve their self-image. Terribly judgmental post. I'm not at all advocating the behavior you're describing, but your slant on it is horribly subjective. I think you missed the entire point of my post. Perhaps the part about 'do it if it makes you feel good' skipped your notice? Or the part about 'not just because you think doing this or that in particular is female-empowering'? Orrr maybe the part about 'judging women who do otherwise as weak un-empowered women'? There is a difference between 'doing all that because you think it empowers women' and 'doing it because it makes you feel good about yourself'. I am all for the latter, and THAT is what self-image is about, not some arbitrary societal viewpoint that changes every 2 months. Yes being able to do what you want to do is what empowerment is. Not being made to conform to a social or gender stereotype is what empowerment is. I could ridicule you for waiting for full sex until you get married, for many it's a dated concept. Ah, Emilia, but you have. You have made many posts calling girls who wished to do so, insecure, young, inexperienced and naive. You have called Cypress many worse things than that because she does not do oral sex. That is not what being an 'empowered' woman is about, is it, ridiculing other women's choices for their own bodies? Sky-high stilettos and all that are aspects of someone's sexuality and it's often a fetish. It isn't just about wanting to attract any Tom, Dick and Harry, it's about displaying a certain image - sometimes for voyeuristic reasons As I said, I totally agree with all that. I think stilettos are pretty awesome-looking, and great for bedroom activities. My point was about women who wear them SOLELY because they think they are a tool of 'empowerment' for women. Edited January 17, 2012 by Elswyth
Jessica45 Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Instead of innocence, I associate "pretty" with being classy. "Hot" leans more to the slutty side. To quote a song lyric "we want a lady in the street, but a freak in the bed" sums it up for me. I want to be pretty and classy in public. Hot is for private times with the SO or appropriate places like the beach when it's acceptable to flaunt it.
musemaj11 Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Nah, just one woman who can be both, at the appropriate time. Just like every woman wants a stand up kind of guy on the streets, and a bad boy in the sheets. Gotta be versatile to keep a mate happy! Well, men arent women. Its hard for a man to see a woman as both a Madonna and a whore. Its either one or the other. But that's assuming those pretty/above average girls (as apparently average are not good enough) would WANT to hangout with, date, sleep with, and possibly be in a R with you, after messing around with the "hot" girls all this time. Times have changed. I know many modern women who would find that notion insulting, me included. I'd rather date a guy who is not a hypocrite and who I won't feel like he's actually settling with a non-hot girl. Why would I want such a man in the first place? You are assuming that a pretty girl is worse than a hot girl. For a man, the pretty girl and the hot girl serve different purposes. One for emotional fulfillment while the other for sexual satisfaction. Both are equally important.
Els Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Well, men arent women. Its hard for a man to see a woman as both a Madonna and a whore. Its either one or the other. You are assuming that a pretty girl is worse than a hot girl. For a man, the pretty girl and the hot girl serve different purposes. One for emotional fulfillment while the other for sexual satisfaction. Both are equally important. Errrrrr...no. That's just you. Trust me.
musemaj11 Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Errrrrr...no. That's just you. Trust me. Why should I trust you more than I trust myself when Im the one with a penis dangling between my legs?
silvermercy Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) You are assuming that a pretty girl is worse than a hot girl. For a man, the pretty girl and the hot girl serve different purposes. One for emotional fulfillment while the other for sexual satisfaction. Both are equally important. No, IMO I personally think the "pretty" girl is actually better for reasons I explained earlier (and more, but then I'll need a whole essay). As for the rest, you HAVE to be kidding, right? But I don't think I'll even bother trying to explain the fallacy of your logic and the leaps you're making as I can see it's kinda late now and you're obviously way too far into the deep sea. But long story short what you're actually saying is the emotionally-fulfilling women are in general not sexually satisfying. Now what is wrong with this picture?? (Not to mention that in a single sentence you perfectly managed to separate women into two categories, just like objects, all for the male gender's consumption of course. What can I say... Bravo!) Edited January 17, 2012 by silvermercy
xxoo Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 Why should I trust you more than I trust myself when Im the one with a penis dangling between my legs? Having a penis doesn't make your view representative of all men. If I want to know what kind of partner makes a man happy, I'll ask a happily partnered man.
Eve Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 H'mmm.. being a bit off both is nice. Obviously there is a time and place for these things. Get that wrong and I suppose that is where the whole name calling thing comes into focus. Take care, Eve x
hydorclops Posted January 17, 2012 Posted January 17, 2012 (edited) There's another spin you could put on it. Your article suggests that being pretty has something to do with innocence, to 'inspiring' 'better' qualities in men. But these 'better' qualities all have a veneer of paternalism. Men want to protect and defend the 'innocence,' put it on a pedestal and treasure it. And of course, let's not ignore the cultural linkage between 'innocence' and 'virginity.' In other words, being this particular definition of pretty (innocent) is all about putting the woman on a pedestal and creating a dominant-submissive relationship between the man and the woman (man as the protector and rescuer, woman as the weak and naive damsel.) Hot, on the other hand, could be a form of empowerment. 'Hot' recognizes a woman's natural sexuality and sensuality, and gives the woman the upper hand... by calling a woman 'hot' the culture is subscribing her an amount of sexual power. 'Hot' also comes, fairly or not, with some connotation of knowing what she's doing... that a woman is sexually experienced, or at least aware OF her power. The woman is not necessarily an object to be worshiped by men, but has control over her interactions (being as she is aware of her power.) That at least puts her on more of an equal footing with men than her 'pretty/innocent' sister. I like the way you think and write. Your analysis made that annoying article more interesting. Edited January 17, 2012 by hydorclops
FL Lady Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Every man wants a Taylor Swift at home to provide for and who will take care of him and his kids and a Megan Fox on the side with whom he can unleash all his carnal desires. Nothing new. Ideally every man needs to have at least two women. One as his protege and another as his lover. You're an idiot. You don't think we want a Bradley Cooper in the sheets and a George Clooney on the red carpet (or both?). Actually, I would like a hot Navy Seal or US Marine in the sheets!
Michael30 Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Girls can be both you know..... Word........
Michael30 Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 You're an idiot. Nice introduction to someone you don't even know. You don't think we want a Bradley Cooper That guy's a fag. in the sheets and a George Clooney on the red carpet (or both?). Well actually Clooney runs through women like no tomorrow, so if you want a man in the sheets, it should be him. Actually, I would like a hot Navy Seal or US Marine in the sheets! Most of them are married so it's unlikely that will happen.
D-Lish Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I thought it was quite dreadful. Cherishing "pretty" over "hot" doesn't commodify women any less. It simply places a higher value on lack of sexual experience....and I think most women (and men who spend any time around women) are well aware that the same woman can be hot and sexy one moment, sweet and "pretty" the next depending on her mood, circumstances, clothing and make-up. I agree with your sentiments on this one T. Sometimes the difference between hot and pretty are a push up bra and some flase eye-lashes. Sometimes the difference between a pretty girl and a hot girl is confidence (not to be confused with conceit).
Feelin Frisky Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I think it's a subjective distinction that really doesn't hold that much substance either way. Who doesn't want their wife or g/f to be good-looking and/or sexy ("pretty" and/or "hot")? I've had more than one SO who qualified as both. Who they were are persons made long term happiness impossible however. So, as a mature (ish) man, I think more in terms of who is she and then is she acceptable (if not good-looking or so-called "hot")? (And btw, I happen to have hit quite a delightful jackpot these past several months in these regards.)
Anela Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I thought it was quite dreadful. Cherishing "pretty" over "hot" doesn't commodify women any less. It simply places a higher value on lack of sexual experience....and I think most women (and men who spend any time around women) are well aware that the same woman can be hot and sexy one moment, sweet and "pretty" the next depending on her mood, circumstances, clothing and make-up. Definitely. A sweet, pretty woman can be just as "hot" as other women, she just doesn't broadcast it.
Anela Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 But that's assuming those pretty/above average girls (as apparently average are not good enough) would WANT to hangout with, date, sleep with, and possibly be in a R with you, after messing around with the "hot" girls all this time. Times have changed. I know many modern women who would find that notion insulting, me included. I'd rather date a guy who is not a hypocrite and who I won't feel like he's actually settling with a non-hot girl. Why would I want such a man in the first place? I totally agree.
xxoo Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I sure don't want two women. I want my gal to be Marion the Librarian to the world and then when we''re alone to take off her glasses, shake the hair loose and .... However, I do like knowing that other guys wonder what my Marion the Librarian is like that behind closed doors. Guys (well, at least non-adolescents) rarely envy guys with seductively hot babe girlfriends. most of us have 'been there' and don't need the anxiety. We envy guys with 'nice girls' who we can fantasize about being hot in the bedroom. You sound JUST like my husband! It's always the quiet ones, according to him......
Feelin Frisky Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 I think it's a subjective distinction that really doesn't hold that much substance either way. Who doesn't want their wife or g/f to be good-looking and/or sexy ("pretty" and/or "hot")? I've had more than one SO who qualified as both. Who they were are persons made long term happiness impossible however. So, as a mature (ish) man, I think more in terms of who is she and then is she acceptable (if not good-looking or so-called "hot")? (And btw, I happen to have hit quite a delightful jackpot these past several months in these regards.)
Anela Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 (And btw, I happen to have hit quite a delightful jackpot these past several months in these regards.) Congratulations!
Els Posted January 18, 2012 Posted January 18, 2012 Having a penis doesn't make your view representative of all men. If I want to know what kind of partner makes a man happy, I'll ask a happily partnered man. Precisely.
musemaj11 Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 (edited) No, IMO I personally think the "pretty" girl is actually better for reasons I explained earlier (and more, but then I'll need a whole essay). Then why do you feel offended if you think the pretty girl is better anyway? For example from your physical appearance and your personality based on your posts here, I could tell that you are the nice, pretty girl type. You are the sweetheart kind I would want for emotional fulfillment, for cuddling, for going on fun dates with, for me to treasure and take care of, for me to keep at home to care for my kids and myself, etc. But you are not the kind of girl who the moment I take a glance at you, I get a sudden testosterone surge and I just want to ravage you and have a hot, passionate, nasty sex on the spot. You are the Madonna, not the whore. Personally though, if I were a woman, I would rather be the pretty girl instead of the hot girl because although a man can't resist the unbearable desire to have sex with the hot girl, but he sees her as nothing but a sex object while on the other hand he invests his emotion in the pretty girl and invests in her for long term plan. Having a penis doesn't make your view representative of all men. If I want to know what kind of partner makes a man happy, I'll ask a happily partnered man. Of course my opinion doesnt represent all penis owners. But I certainly know better than someone who doesnt even have a penis at all. Savvy? Edited January 19, 2012 by musemaj11
Els Posted January 19, 2012 Posted January 19, 2012 No, your individual viewpoint is pretty much on par with a woman's. A woman has never been in a happy relationship with a woman; you have never been in a happy relationship with a woman. A lifelong-vegetarian man and a rabbit both have the same idea what meat tastes like. On the other hand, xxoo and I know, intimately, men who have indeed been in happy LTRs with women. Judging from the responses of most of the esteemed male posters here, we appear to be about right.
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