Is it best for Average people to Date Average people and give up their dreams?

January 19, 2012

Kathy you are a damn hypocrite. You told me last night that I should consider a female whose 6 inches shorter yet within 5 lbs of my weight attractive, but you're going to excuse the fact that 90% of women need you to be a billionaire or lead singer of Green Day to be attracted to a guy whose under 5'10?

You also whine about guys who think hookers are awesome, then admit that you need to fill all this criteria to get a girlfriend if youre a typical dude in America.

You just want to torture men, admit it.

Again, Negative Nancy, Verzhn, Kathy, and XXOO, I Will personally write all of you a great exercise/diet routine that will give you a very beautiful body in 6 months to a year, but only when you write me a guide on how to be tall , rich or famous. What was the suggestion one of you hens made in this thread...I think it was run for president?

Give me a ****ing break, women are more myopic than mr ****ing magoo.

Where did you come up with this? I never said that to you. I don't think I was even on this forum last night, I was doing my homework.

You don't need to fill all this criteria to get a girlfriend in America. I never said you did. But if you have expectations that only 20% of the women in this country can fill, then you had better be prepared that they will have expectations of men as well, and one of those things is height. At least average in height. Don't kill the messenger. And no, I don't want to torture men. I want them to have realistic standards and expectations so that they will have an opportunity for a relationship. And just for the record, I don't need your tips on how to improve my body. My weight is slim.

January 19, 2012

only when you write me a guide on how to be tall , rich or famous

how about a guide on how to be successful with women? you dont need to be tall and rich and famous, xxoo already explained this.

besides, you've admitted in other threads that you used to be very successful with women in the past. so obviously you already know what to do and have IT in you. i dont understand why you dont have success with women, objectively speaking you are good looking, witty, a funny sarcastic sense of humor...and i'm not the first person who has said that.

if you dropped some funny bombs in real life like you do on here, just sans the bitterness, i'm sure you could be successful. i dont know what happened to you in the past years. maybe it's because here you are anonymous, that's why you're letting it all out here and freely show your - yes, dark side, but also your witty and humorous side. and in real life you are too nervous or too bitter to freely live to your true potential, i dont know. i dont know you, after all. just a guess.

January 19, 2012

Oh wow look at this, a Human Resources type, cool beans *pulls out baseball bat with nails sticking out*

Why are you getting emotional? I'm just saying that people, like the OP, often have unrealistic demands.

January 19, 2012

I have never met a woman who had trouble getting a date, I have also never met a "below average in height guy" who struggled as massively with women as the guys on this forum do. That being said though, I try to never negate or invalidate anyone's experiences. I have no doubt that verhzn has it tough, same with Wolf. I don't know either in real life and only know of their histories from this forum so I can't know why this is.

Dating is so difficult. It's difficult to find someone who shares your values, life outlook, religious or political views, lifestyle, geographic realities, and is attractive. You're extremely lucky (or blessed depending on how you look at it) if you find someone who fits all of these. Otherwise you're going to have to compromise somewhere or face being alone. It's a cost benefit analysis.

I have no problem with people having a long list of standards, but don't complain when you have a hard time finding people who meet them. You want a guy who's 6'3", makes $100k plus a year, volunteers at the homeless shelter, loves 19th century poetry, has huge muscles and loves to dance? Good luck with that. Same goes for a guy looking for a hot slim supermodel who loves kids, can cook really well, loves intellectual debates, and loves to watch sports. It's nice to think about our "dream women/men" but let's be honest dreams are never as good as reality.

January 19, 2012

5' 9 is the average height in America for men. Stop shifting blame for failure.

January 19, 2012

But you're looking at this through the lens of a well-adjusted male, whose not taking it personally. verhrzn, on the other hand, is an anxiety-ridden female who takes it personally.

Her tendency to try impose rules viz what other people can do is a defence mechanism that won't result in these guys self-reflecting or her making changes herself that will result in more romance for her. I suspect it is precisely because it won't change squat that she sticks to her rote angry responses, just as the chest hair counters stick to their I want a pony with a pink mane that sh*ts rainbows nonsense.

What are you on? I'm imposing rules for other people?? How about just 'double standards, hypocrisy and entitlement piss me off'? I've said over and over that guys are welcome to their standards, but complaining and moaning when women have their own standards is the height of hypocrisy. It's also a sheer entitlement fantasy that a man should GET to have a girlfriend from the top 20% of the female population without being a 20% occupant himself. Heck, without being a 50% occupant.

Lots of other people have pointed out the exact same thing. Me and Dust actually share the same opinion and perspective on this topic, albeit him a little *throws hands up in the air* and me *slams hands down on the table.* Yet Dust is a 'well-adjusted male' and I'm an 'anxiety-ridden female'? What does our genders have to do with our opinions at all? Or is just another ad hominem declaration of yours to demonstrate your superior knowledge of my 'issues' without ever actually taking the time to give advice or understand my perspective while completely excusing the unsuccessful guys' on this threads tendencies to vent their entitled, whiny issues?

I never said there was anything that wrong with your body. Maybe you've got a little extra, but it's within reason IMO, I would date a girl with your body type without a problem.

... You talked explicitly about my, Nancy's, XXOO's and Kathy's bodies. "Again, Negative Nancy, Verzhn, Kathy, and XXOO, I Will personally write all of you a great exercise/diet routine that will give you a very beautiful body in 6 months to a year."

So come on, let's get cracking. Doesn't matter that I have a very good paying job, that I am smart, responsible, have interesting hobbies, keep myself active, am healthy, and empathetic, all that matters is I don't have that beautiful body. A beautiful body is what all of the guys on this thread complain about not having, right?

That's not how it works. Weight is not something set in stone, ask the Ethiopians about how contagious the "disease" of being fat is in their country.

And it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that Ethiopians are almost starving to death. So, is that your exercise plan for me Wolf? Starve myself?

This is my point. Blondie was pretty to me, I'd take him for myself, cute pirate costume and all, if I was doing life in a federal pen along side him. Seriously though, that was a handsome man in any part of the world except maybe this one, what did you say, he was only 5'9? EWWW UGLY OMG IM GOING TO VOMIT I DONT KNOW HOW YOU WERE ABLE TO SETTLE FOR HIM UGH YOURE A SAINT VERZHN.

He was 5'7" as previously stated. And I didn't settle for him. I didn't settle for him. I liked him.... overweight, short, nerdy, and effeminate (his friends all thought he was gay.) I actually liked him more than he liked me, being as he dumped me for someone hotter.

Either way, even if he was the model handsome you make him out to be, it still proves height is not the big issue you and Somedude and other men make it out to be, if my ex was able to overcome such a terrible handicap.

January 19, 2012

If you only gain in your stomach, that is unfortunate.

You'd think you have more empathy for women who have the same problem

Why should I?

When I gain fat it goes straight to my gut. The goal is to not gain fat.

I only get fat when I'm lazy, don't workout and don't care what I eat.

Are women any different?

I wonder if she's caring, loving, funny, or good company?

Would she be a more valuable person if she weighed the same but distributed it differently?

Why does it matter?

Are you saying that a healthy weight woman can't have those things?

January 19, 2012

What are you on? I'm imposing rules for other people?? How about just 'double standards, hypocrisy and entitlement piss me off'? I've said over and over that guys are welcome to their standards, but complaining and moaning when women have their own standards is the height of hypocrisy. It's also a sheer entitlement fantasy that a man should GET to have a girlfriend from the top 20% of the female population without being a 20% occupant himself. Heck, without being a 50% occupant.

Lots of other people have pointed out the exact same thing. Me and Dust actually share the same opinion and perspective on this topic, albeit him a little *throws hands up in the air* and me *slams hands down on the table.* Yet Dust is a 'well-adjusted male' and I'm an 'anxiety-ridden female'? What does our genders have to do with our opinions at all? Or is just another ad hominem declaration of yours to demonstrate your superior knowledge of my 'issues' without ever actually taking the time to give advice or understand my perspective while completely excusing the unsuccessful guys' on this threads tendencies to vent their entitled, whiny issues?

... You talked explicitly about my, Nancy's, XXOO's and Kathy's bodies. "Again, Negative Nancy, Verzhn, Kathy, and XXOO, I Will personally write all of you a great exercise/diet routine that will give you a very beautiful body in 6 months to a year."

So come on, let's get cracking. Doesn't matter that I have a very good paying job, that I am smart, responsible, have interesting hobbies, keep myself active, am healthy, and empathetic, all that matters is I don't have that beautiful body. A beautiful body is what all of the guys on this thread complain about not having, right?

And it couldn't possibly have anything to do with the fact that Ethiopians are almost starving to death. So, is that your exercise plan for me Wolf? Starve myself?

He was 5'7" as previously stated. And I didn't settle for him. I didn't settle for him. I liked him.... overweight, short, nerdy, and effeminate (his friends all thought he was gay.) I actually liked him more than he liked me, being as he dumped me for someone hotter.

Either way, even if he was the model handsome you make him out to be, it still proves height is not the big issue you and Somedude and other men make it out to be, if my ex was able to overcome such a terrible handicap.

lol at this rubbish.. where do you come up with top 20% and how d oyou judge if a women is i nthe top 20%?

Just being thin and not facially hideous does that put a women i nthe top 20% havign all her teeth? what?

January 19, 2012

Forums are EXTREMELY niche, the percentage of the population who have ever used one is in the single digits. I've gone out with at LEAST half a dozen women from online dating sites who fit the demographic you described, ones who "finally gave in" and tried them. Most people won't try online dating even if they're lonely either because they think it makes them seem desperate, although I firmly believe the unspoken truth of it is usually that they're just afraid of being wounded by putting themselves out there and getting negative response.

Two of my three long-term relationships have been with women exactly as you describe, including my current one. One of my ex's had a twin sister who was single from 25 until her current age of 42 who just avoided social situations. My current girlfriend hadn't been in a long-term relationship until she was with me at the age of 34. She wanted one that whole time but was just afraid to put herself into situations where she'd meet men. I'm pretty sure she also wouldn't respond to signals, either, nor send any of her own. Her body is a HUGE threat to guys as well so I know that contributes to it. I was very surprised at first she hadn't been asked out a lot more, but it makes sense to me now that I've had a year of seeing how often men are intimidated by her in public.

There are just butt-tons of the women you described out there, although I'm sure the great majority of them are homely in various ways and wouldn't meet your requirements.

You've pretty much described me, because I need to know someone for a while - feel them out - before I'll trust them with anything. Once I've known you for a while, I can be more open, trusting, more "aggressive"... in a good way. More fun. But just six years ago, I was afraid to go to a dancing class, because I didn't want to be in that close proximity to someone I'd never met before.

I'm extremely protective of my personal space body-wise, and in my living situation. People have told me that I'm very pretty, and too pretty to hide, but that's only part of it. (Due to PTSD, from the insane men from my childhood.)

Edited January 19, 2012 by Anela

January 19, 2012

Why should I?

When I gain fat it goes straight to my gut. The goal is to not gain fat.

I only get fat when I'm lazy, don't workout and don't care what I eat.

Are women any different?

What do you think boobs are?

What do you think makes the curve of hips in an hourglass figure?

It's fat! Fat that is in the right places to be attractive to men, but fat nonetheless. NOt all women are lucky enough to gain in the "right" places. Some men, too, aren't lucky enough to gain in a flattering way.

And yes, women especially can hold onto weight when they are very active.

Why does it matter?

Are you saying that a healthy weight woman can't have those things?

Of course they can.

I just can't see any good reason to critique that young woman's body on a message board, so I focused on other things.

January 19, 2012

For what it's worth, I liked a girl who usually only liked ripped guys with cornrows. I didn't care. I nearly got her but my own insecurities and naivety got in the way. Just goes to show that for a lot of guys, it's not usually her. You could have been in there, but somewhere along the way (either at the beginning or towards the end) you messed up. Not making the move on her = messing up too. I did that many times. Didn't try. Could have got them. Own fault.

January 19, 2012

What are you on? I'm imposing rules for other people?? How about just 'double standards, hypocrisy and entitlement piss me off'? I've said over and over that guys are welcome to their standards, but complaining and moaning when women have their own standards is the height of hypocrisy. It's also a sheer entitlement fantasy that a man should GET to have a girlfriend from the top 20% of the female population without being a 20% occupant himself. Heck, without being a 50% occupant.

[/i]

Either way, even if he was the model handsome you make him out to be, it still proves height is not the big issue you and Somedude and other men make it out to be, if my ex was able to overcome such a terrible handicap.

So should i ask a women if shes in the top 20 percentile before i approach and if she says yes run away?

Edited January 19, 2012 by PJKino

January 19, 2012

It's actually an interesting analogy. A few weeks ago I was looking through the jobs in the paper and found you HR types demanding 15 years of experience for a janitor job , masters degree to work for the parks department reading lawyer contracts over for grammatical errors, or obligatory "Library Sciences" masters degree to work at a damn library.

I think the example illustrates the typical "I deserve" mentality that is seen both in dating and employment.

An incompetent applicant with no relevant experience and spelling errors in his half a$$ed cover letter will not be considered for a cushy, 6 figure position. This has nothing to do with 'HR types' that's the reality of life. No matter how special his mommy insists he is, he's not getting a job from me.

Same as the fact that an ugly girl with 2 baby daddies and back tits isn't getting some great catch.

And, for what it's worth:

1)I think your janitor example is far fetched.

2) My company treats their employees well and I'm thankful for my job, I take pride in bringing in hard working, cool people.

3) Calling someone to present them with a job offer is my favorite part of my job.

January 19, 2012

It is hilarious how a a Man to be a desirable has to be hot tall have status be sucessful in shape a women has to be not fat to be a prize:rolleyes:

It is hilarious how you guys just don't listen to what you're being told by actual women here on the forum.

January 19, 2012

You put women on the pedestal every time you act like they're so dificult to get. I've traveled to a great many places around the world myself and it's amazing that you do see a higher quantity of beautiful women then you do walking the streets here. That seems like a fact. They also seem a lot more friendly and aproachable... BUT the even if you have to look a little harder there is no doubt many beautiful women in the US who come from all over the world. And yes its like the second they start living here something in them changes... but they are still very easy to get.

Getting a woman isn't like performing sucessful brain surgery. Any one can do it and it isn't that fricken hard.

It's not hard!

The only thing that really changed for me, was the size of the homes (although I lived in a tiny flat that was the corner of a house, with my family, at the age of 19). People love to visit here, from England, because of the garden - the size of it - other than visiting with us, of course. This house, and its garden (and setting) if it were in England, would be a lot more expensive. An old school friend of mine over there, was really annoyed by an American woman on a home-buyers show in the UK, who complained that everything was too small and too expensive. She wanted a huge home.

My Dad, when he was in the Air Force (that's how he met my mother), was congratulated on snagging a British woman, because we're hard workers, and wouldn't have had huge expectations, like a kitchen with a dishwasher (this was 1969, but still - that's hardly the Hope diamond).

Also, when I was home-schooled in California, I could take my school work with me, and travel with visiting friends and relatives. We were stuck in Sacramento, but could visit Monterey, or Southern California (although we never made it as far as San Diego). Move a little further North, to a tiny coastal town, and you can live not far from the ocean - walk on a sandy beach every morning and evening. My dad lived there for ten years, and went jogging every morning, alongside the ocean.

Some people still come here to chase The American Dream. I've never liked how this country has been so pumped up (from the inside) to be the best, when there are great things about other countries - you get good and bad in each one. I guess we shouldn't be surprised that both men and women can have a sense of entitlement, when they're brought up around that.

January 19, 2012

Who cares?

If your standards were really that basic, you wouldn't be single, unless you live in the Belgian Congo or something. Enough to support yourself is defined very differently by men and women. I make enough to support myself, but I'm also pretty simple, women think "enough to support yourself" = enough to go to Dorsia's every thursday and take vacations to hot parts of the world to sit out the winter.

She's already stated her own problems, and been called a liar, or talked down to over it.

January 19, 2012

Yet Dust is a 'well-adjusted male'

Where did I say that?

January 19, 2012

So Men under a certain height should not expect an attractive women regardless of what kind of shape their in or what they look like facially?

depends on the amount of ca$h they have on hand

January 19, 2012

So get yourself a Russian bride or an Asian bride or move to Brazil.

Because he would not have success with Asian women, due to his bitterness, 'women-have-it-so-good', 'screw this gentlemanly crap I have to do' mentality. Coming from an Asian country, 90% of the guys I know over there would probably be better picks than he and a lot of the others here are - NOT because of height (the guys I know are like 5'5" on average), NOT because of career (they're all students), but simply because of their mentality. They still like girls and want to make them happy, and don't have a laundry list of entitled requirements. Huge bonus.

He probably would not have success with the Russians and Brazilians either, but I can't speak for those because I don't know many.

January 19, 2012

Well, I kinda doubt Russian women would be interested either. I know a lot of Russian women. I worked with some, I go to school with some, I socialize with some, and some have dated and/or married my relatives. Russian women are looking for stable men, with good jobs, money, and willing to marry early on. Doesn't sound like a match for these guys. And for those of you guys saying American women are so inferior in attitude, here's a piece that compares American women to Russian women:

this post is a celebration of the positive attribute of American women. And it’s a big one.

Dimitri writes:

I see not americans women as the problem but these females in general.

I’

m

from russia and you americans men who think

our women better and to make you more happy

, this is not true. I think russians women are worse for wanting you for your money and yelling at you if you do not meet her wants for material things. Many russians here have little

so

these women demand much, maybe because they see what you americans have on tv. I hate russia women and would be glad to have a women like you americans have who do not flirt or offer sex

so

they can marry my money. Russias women are manipulative i think like any other women. I have seen many women of all different backgrounds who conspire to meet an end.

Even though Dimitri’s English is choppy, I think we all understand what he’s saying. And I agree with him. While my experiences with Russian women have been blessedly free of craven materialistic concerns, I have heard plenty of stories from other men attesting to the coldly calculating mindset that Russian women tend to bring to the dating market. Dimitri is in the thick of it with Russian women, and he is thus able to gain a clearer third party perspective of American women. And to him, an outsider, it looks as if American women are loose sluts who happily give it up on the basis of fleeting emotion instead of crass materialistic reasons. It’s easy to see how foreign men like Dimitri would find that American female attitude a breath of fresh air compared to their devious compatriot women.

Edited January 19, 2012 by KathyM

January 19, 2012

This whole thread cracks me up. If no one ever let go of their dreams, we would all be rock stars, baseball players, and astronauts. Some people get to fulfill their dreams and many others have to settle. If you happen to be blessed with great looks or some other trait women want you will get the hot ones. The rest of us do the best we can with what we have. Same with employment I know people with grad degrees making minimum wage and guys who couldn't figure out how to crack open a walnut making $100k. That is life. The sooner you realize that it is not fair and figure out how to end up on top, the better your life will be.

January 19, 2012

Even though Dimitri’s English is choppy, I think we all understand what he’s saying.

Yes, he's saying that the "American women" he sees in American movies and TV are really great. Of course he's right, and of course they don't depict real life.

January 19, 2012

Yes, he's saying that the "American women" he sees in American movies and TV are really great. Of course he's right, and of course they don't depict real life.

Actually, he said he's met women from many countries, and they all seem pretty much alike, except that American women want a relationship for the purpose of an emotional connection and freely give of themselves because of that. Russian women are cold and calculating, according to him, and only in it for the money. They marry your money, not you, and if you don't have it, you are not of interest to them.

January 19, 2012

Actually, he said he's met women from many countries, and they all seem pretty much alike ....

So we're taking this guys word as an expert? Interesting - here's some more from your link:

"Underneath the chilly exterior she harbors an uncontrollable desire to submit to a worthy man. If you are that man, she’ll transform from bitchy ice queen to sultry seductress in a flash. Sex with them will be like nothing you’ve ever experienced with an American woman. They are ravenous in the sack and love to be dominated. Their submissive posturing and obvious delight at servicing your sexual ()perversions() needs will make you feel like a man who missed the memo on the feminist revolution. When she gives knob jobs, which is often, you will sense right away that she enjoys every minute of it and is not just doing it out of obligation — your dick may as well be a vodka popsicle. "

Sounds terrible. Really.

January 19, 2012

When you think about it, men have a lot more avenues to being highly desirable!

Women seemingly have only one: have the right body.

No, most of the same attributes (charm, money, etc) make women far more desirable than ones who lack them. Height may be the only major difference, but that's somewhat helpful to women as well.

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