ThaWholigan Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 OK my point is that lots of women compare PUA techniques, such as a guy learning palm reading, as insincere if not outright dishonest, while those same women engage in appearance enhancement that is at least as insincere. I have no problem with women enhancing their appearance to increase their attractiveness, why do men who enhance their charm and "interestingness" in an effort to increase their attractiveness receive such ire? True or False? Women have been asking men to be more romantic and charming for a long long time? Once men start to learn ways to be more romantic and charming, more seductive, women complain that they are fake, and using women. The men who don't learn to be more romantic and charming are boring though, and women complain about this, or rather simply ignore boring men in favor of more charming, seductive ones. Contrary to what many say, I believe women do know what they want... they want to complain about men. @ Bolded... Surely the solution then would be to ignore it and continue to be charming and seductive. At least that's what I would do. Sometimes it's just not a good idea to take stock of women's complaints, sometimes they need to vent about stuff. At least that's what my dad told me . My dad has a lot of well known lines (see line in sig from steven seagal movie), but this is my favorite of his... "Son.......Women are to be loved......not to be understood" Still cracks me up to this day. Not sure I completely believe it, but I seem to be getting proven wrong a lot.
dasein Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 the thread that comes to mind recently is a younger girl who typed out half a bible lamenting some guy who didn't call her, Oh yeah, I remember that one, what a huge OP that was for something so obvious. Want to qualify about the women complaining and being inconsistent, and in response to wholigan, there are a bunch, a majority even of the female posters on LS who aren't like this in any way. Won't list them because they know who they are. My "complaining" comment was addressed to the "PUA haters" who don't let any opportunity pass to rant about PUA despite that they haven't taken the time to understand what it actually is. And also want to add, I'm NOT a PUA, but someone who believes that men should take the time to improve their seduction skills with women. You can call this "romance" or you can call it "PUA" depending on what preconceived opinion you have LOL.
dasein Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 when I do wear makeup, i tend to attract men who think i am easy and when I don't wear makeup, I attract no-one (obviously doesn't include men who never make there interest known) This is interesting because the same applies to many men. The average guy, until he learns to standardize his approach to meeting women, is in a precarious situation of being 100% sincere, but also 100% vulnerable to rejection. Rejection snowballs and breeds further rejection, loss of confidence, bad attitude. When he applies his "makeup," standardized approaches to meeting and charming women, not only are women more open to getting to know him, the pain of rejection reduces as the process is somewhat depersonalized, so he suffers less risk of losing confidence or developing a bad attitude. So in a way, men are subject to the same "makeup/no makeup" dilemma you experience.
ThaWholigan Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Oh yeah, I remember that one, what a huge OP that was for something so obvious. Want to qualify about the women complaining and being inconsistent, and in response to wholigan, there are a bunch, a majority even of the female posters on LS who aren't like this in any way. Won't list them because they know who they are. My "complaining" comment was addressed to the "PUA haters" who don't let any opportunity pass to rant about PUA despite that they haven't taken the time to understand what it actually is. And also want to add, I'm NOT a PUA, but someone who believes that men should take the time to improve their seduction skills with women. You can call this "romance" or you can call it "PUA" depending on what preconceived opinion you have LOL. Absolutely 100% agree. Sometimes I find women's advice for men on how to attract women is quite poor. All the improvements I made were stuff I read that could easily be construed as PUA and thus politically incorrect in the eyes of a lot of women. Now, I'm not a PUA either, and I don't agree with all of it (peacocking and all that garbage), but there are lessons to be had that all men should do their best to fully understand and appreciate. So women will hate on PUA and some of their concerns might be valid, but their alternatives just don't match up IMO (The ineffective "Just Be Yourself" comes to mind, in and of itself, good advice, but never elaborated on properly)
dasein Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Yep, if men didn't get such terrifically awful advice from well-meaning sources about how to attract women, dating and relationships, PUA wouldn't exist. It's kind of a cultural level of "cult deprogramming," an escape from the cult of how NOT to attract women so many of us are indoctrinated into early in life.
ThaWholigan Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 This is interesting because the same applies to many men. The average guy, until he learns to standardize his approach to meeting women, is in a precarious situation of being 100% sincere, but also 100% vulnerable to rejection. Rejection snowballs and breeds further rejection, loss of confidence, bad attitude. When he applies his "makeup," standardized approaches to meeting and charming women, not only are women more open to getting to know him, the pain of rejection reduces as the process is somewhat depersonalized, so he suffers less risk of losing confidence or developing a bad attitude. So in a way, men are subject to the same "makeup/no makeup" dilemma you experience. This I agree upon. Your "innocence" counts against you, something my hot female friend inadvertently pointed out to me when I took some survey thing: "It says I look like a boo or a booty call guy..." "Yeah, but I think you're more like a husband or a provider type person. Because if I wanted to get my back blown out I wouldn't call you, if I sexed you I'd be your first. And I'm not good for it..." ".....:lmao:" Yep, if men didn't get such terrifically awful advice from well-meaning sources about how to attract women, dating and relationships, PUA wouldn't exist. It's kind of a cultural level of "cult deprogramming," an escape from the cult of how NOT to attract women so many of us are indoctrinated into early in life. Absolutely agree. I'm just lucky my mum wasn't one of those mums who always told me to be nice 100% of the time. She told me to be a gentleman, but never to be a pussy or a doormat. I love her for that. All the advice I got from guys served me well to understand women a bit more, I generally understood less about women the more I listened intently to them about what they wanted. Sounds bad, and I'm sure some women may have something to say about that but that's been my experience. I'd hope things will change as I progress.
thatone Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Absolutely 100% agree. Sometimes I find women's advice for men on how to attract women is quite poor. All the improvements I made were stuff I read that could easily be construed as PUA and thus politically incorrect in the eyes of a lot of women. Now, I'm not a PUA either, and I don't agree with all of it (peacocking and all that garbage), but there are lessons to be had that all men should do their best to fully understand and appreciate. So women will hate on PUA and some of their concerns might be valid, but their alternatives just don't match up IMO (The ineffective "Just Be Yourself" comes to mind, in and of itself, good advice, but never elaborated on properly) because women won't tell you what you should do, that's not how their minds typically work. if you ask them for advice about women they'll tell you what they want but don't get from their husband/boyfriend/whatever. which could be completely different from what the next woman wants. and all of that PUA stuff that men try to learn i think is also bullsh*t. look at their videos on youtube, look at the guys who show up to those things and pay for them. is it any wonder that they don't have much success with women? rocking a 3 day neck beard, dirty jeans and tennis shoes, bad haircut, quiet and awkward even around other men. duh, of course they're going to struggle with women. did none of them ever stop to think that maybe they're just not very interesting people, so are not going to attract very interesting women?
ThaWholigan Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 because women won't tell you what you should do, that's not how their minds typically work. if you ask them for advice about women they'll tell you what they want but don't get from their husband/boyfriend/whatever. which could be completely different from what the next woman wants. and all of that PUA stuff that men try to learn i think is also bullsh*t. look at their videos on youtube, look at the guys who show up to those things and pay for them. is it any wonder that they don't have much success with women? rocking a 3 day neck beard, dirty jeans and tennis shoes, bad haircut, quiet and awkward even around other men. duh, of course they're going to struggle with women. did none of them ever stop to think that maybe they're just not very interesting people, so are not going to attract very interesting women? Surprisingly, they probably didn't. That's why they needed to spend thousands of pounds/dollars to go to a PUA bootcamp to be told that they need to shape up and augment their personality and character. And of course, a sizeable chunk of them don't even heed the full message properly. Like i said, I think a lot of it is bs too, but I found a lot of useful stuff in the material. Some guys literally have no idea, that's why PUA is important, especially if their father isn't helping and giving them advice. I know my problem was that I was too afraid of my own individuality, I was well aware I was an interesting character, just didn't know how to convey that without seeming a complete nutjob. Good news is I am growing out of it. Bad news is, people occasionally think I am a complete nutjob .
dasein Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 did none of them ever stop to think that maybe they're just not very interesting people, so are not going to attract very interesting women? No, I don't think they do, but IMO it's not all their fault. Do we live in a culture that tells every child they are some special perfect little angel bundle of light? or one that trains children in the realities of human society? This cultural lie children are told today is another reason PUA exists. You can see it here in threads from time to time, "I don't want to change myself and be fake to attract women." What this translates into is "mama already told me I was golden, now I just have to find my special someone who loves me like mama does." Yet you never see on a bodybuilding forum, "where are the awards for nice looking natural bodies? I don't want to change myself in the gym and be fake just to win a bodybuilding trophy!" PUA is an easy target because the stuff that gets clipped to youtube is usually laughable and the average forum participants are teenagers with no sexual experience who are enjoying the bounty of internet anonymity to bolster their barely post pubescent suffering egos. Don't judge the elephant by the flies and birds swarming around it though. PUA actually -prevents- deception. Every guy knows that one way to get at least fair results in one's sex life is to lie to women. It's epidemic. "Oh, I'm a LEO, we would be a great match!" "I love 'Friends!'" "I'm a feminist!" "I really am a cat person!" "I used to work for Greenpeace!" "I'm going to med school next year!" "I have a $5 million trust fund!" "I LOVE Coldplay!" "Twilight is really a cool concept!" "I'm a one woman man!" "Im all about having my own family!" on and on. PUA, for its warts, doesn't teach men to do ANY of that, in fact teaches against it specifically, and that's a big reason why I've always had a baseline level of respect for practitioners of it. Another thing is that the "Inner game" part of PUA isn't really PUA but simply self-improvement through reflection and action, something beneficial for all of us.
ThaWholigan Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 No, I don't think they do, but IMO it's not all their fault. Do we live in a culture that tells every child they are some special perfect little angel bundle of light? or one that trains children in the realities of human society? This cultural lie children are told today is another reason PUA exists. You can see it here in threads from time to time, "I don't want to change myself and be fake to attract women." What this translates into is "mama already told me I was golden, now I just have to find my special someone who loves me like mama does." Yet you never see on a bodybuilding forum, "where are the awards for nice looking natural bodies? I don't want to change myself in the gym and be fake just to win a bodybuilding trophy!" PUA is an easy target because the stuff that gets clipped to youtube is usually laughable and the average forum participants are teenagers with no sexual experience who are enjoying the bounty of internet anonymity to bolster their barely post pubescent suffering egos. Don't judge the elephant by the flies and birds swarming around it though. PUA actually -prevents- deception. Every guy knows that one way to get at least fair results in one's sex life is to lie to women. It's epidemic. "Oh, I'm a LEO, we would be a great match!" "I love 'Friends!'" "I'm a feminist!" "I really am a cat person!" "I used to work for Greenpeace!" "I'm going to med school next year!" "I have a $5 million trust fund!" "I LOVE Coldplay!" "Twilight is really a cool concept!" "I'm a one woman man!" "Im all about having my own family!" on and on. PUA, for its warts, doesn't teach men to do ANY of that, in fact teaches against it specifically, and that's a big reason why I've always had a baseline level of respect for practitioners of it. Another thing is that the "Inner game" part of PUA isn't really PUA but simply self-improvement through reflection and action, something beneficial for all of us. I couldn't have put it better myself . Apart from the Leo part, I used to study Natal Astrology privately . But it's exactly my view of PUA, and the creeps that women talk about that practice PUA are usually not even good at it anyway. The concept of what the PUA does is what every guy who wants a woman should know how to do IMO, it's not about making it a lifestyle, it's about making it a figment, a part of your lifestyle IMO.
PlumPrincess Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) PUA actually -prevents- deception. Every guy knows that one way to get at least fair results in one's sex life is to lie to women. It's epidemic. "Oh, I'm a LEO, we would be a great match!" "I love 'Friends!'" "I'm a feminist!" "I really am a cat person!" "I used to work for Greenpeace!" "I'm going to med school next year!" "I have a $5 million trust fund!" "I LOVE Coldplay!" "Twilight is really a cool concept!" "I'm a one woman man!" "Im all about having my own family!" on and on. Damn it, those bastards! Honestly, if men had the possibility to learn to be a bit more charming and to dress better, I wouldn't mind. Sometimes I'm really bored. Sometimes I tell guys who surely are not having success with women things they could do to improve. They always tell me they don't want to change for anybody. I once had this guy who looked like a younger version of Rasputin contact me. I told him (nicely, I may say) that in the other pictures where he had shaved and had a nice haircut, he looked better. He was kind of offended. Well, if you want to look like a weirdo, then don't go for a woman who looks really average and definitely not weirdo. You can look however you want to look, but then going for people who have adapted a more common look themselves may not yield the most successful results. Edited January 15, 2012 by PlumPrincess
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