Mr_Confused Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Curious on thoughts about what infidelity is, not sexual infidelity give it is clear. Just wondered what others thought as I read this summary one of the points made in Dr. Laura book "Proper Care and Feeding of husbands": " Infidelity by Omission. Brides and grooms make a number of vows, not only of sexual fidelity. Marital vows include and imply words like love, honor, protect, and care for. "[W]hen one breaches those vows by neglect, is that also not a form of infidelity? Perhaps we should start looking at the act of intentionally depriving a spouse of legitimate needs as infidelity, too, because it stems from being unfaithful to the intent of the vows." So, the question - is not doing something in adherence to your vows an act of infidelity or is it only doing something that violates vows an act of marital infidelity? DISCLAIMER - I am a cheater (involved in an affair) and in a ~5 year sexless marriage. My actions are not justified under any conditions. I accept any and all consequences for my actions, etc etc.
beenburned Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 I haven't ever read that book, but I looked up the definition of infidelity in the dictionary. It is a violation of the marriage covenant by committing adultery. So, therefore you haven't committed infidelity until you have sexual intercourse with someone other than your spouse. All the other things you mentioned are betrayals of the things you vowed to when marrying, but are not in the same category as adultery. It is the only sin mentioned in the Bible as a justifiable reason in God's eyes for a divorce. If you are in a marriage where you do not get sex, and you consider it a deal breaker, then be an honest person and get a divorce.
Author Mr_Confused Posted January 14, 2012 Author Posted January 14, 2012 Oh we will, that's for sure. I think your assessment is pretty fair. In my case I surely should have divorced long ago. I wonder in the "olden days" how one divorced. Today it is a legal proceeding. I wonder what made a marriage null and void prior to such establishments.... Anywho...thanks for the reply. Yup I am an indifel....a cheater....sure by the definition and many other accounts. I don't know how to be loyal to something you don't share. How can I love only you when we don't love each other...? How can I only be intimate with you if we are not intimate together....? I surely need to put my marriage into the legal status (divorced) which reflects the physical status we have existed in for way too long. I found the excerpt interesting. I can't save my marriage, but I sure hope to read and learn, live and learn, and do everything I can to not repeat the same mistakes.
carhill Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 In my case I surely should have divorced long ago. I wonder in the "olden days" how one divorced. Today it is a legal proceeding. I wonder what made a marriage null and void prior to such establishments.... I can't speak to what 'olden days' means but can offer up one anecdote, that being how my father processed a 'Dear John' letter he received while in Italy on active duty in WW2. His wife took up with another man, advised him of that, took his children and left him. He filed for divorce through military channels on the grounds of abandonment, received such a dissolution and then, upon return after the war, petitioned the Catholic church for an annulment under the canon of simulated consent and was granted such a request. He continued to pay child support until shortly before I was born, when his children reached majority. As far as I know, his only contact with his children was by letter (I have the letters). I would later meet one of them as a teenager (they were around 20 years older than myself). If infidelity is limited to sexual contact, then I've never had an affair. I feel much better now OP, IMO, and I've been there, you'll feel a thousand times better without the M and without the A. It has been like an enormous weight has lifted. When I regained my sanity, I remembered my father and moved to do the honorable thing. I hope you find your path.
Spark1111 Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Hmmmm....when one breeches the vows of love, cherish, obey and honor through neglect, well that is being neglectful, IMO. And while I think you can neglect fidelity by abandoning sex in a marital relationship, that is not infidelity. neglecting to share your body with your spouse is neglecting your marriage vows. Speak to the pastor, priest, rabbi, shaman, or amir. Sharing your body with someone not your spouse is infidelity. Interestingly, infidelity is the one reason woman can move to divorce, even among very conservative sects in all religions, even 2000 years ago.
Spark1111 Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Oh we will, that's for sure. I think your assessment is pretty fair. In my case I surely should have divorced long ago. I wonder in the "olden days" how one divorced. Today it is a legal proceeding. I wonder what made a marriage null and void prior to such establishments.... Anywho...thanks for the reply. Yup I am an indifel....a cheater....sure by the definition and many other accounts. I don't know how to be loyal to something you don't share. How can I love only you when we don't love each other...? How can I only be intimate with you if we are not intimate together....? I surely need to put my marriage into the legal status (divorced) which reflects the physical status we have existed in for way too long. I found the excerpt interesting. I can't save my marriage, but I sure hope to read and learn, live and learn, and do everything I can to not repeat the same mistakes. So what are you waiting for? Lack of sexual relations in a marriage is often a reason to annul. Even after a child has been born. True for men and women in many religions.
oldshirt Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 So, the question - is not doing something in adherence to your vows an act of infidelity or is it only doing something that violates vows an act of marital infidelity? I don't think omission of love and sex and intimacy is infidelity per se but it is dropping the ball and being a lousy spouse. I am a big fan of Dr Laura and I am familiar with the book you mentioned. Dr Laura is quite upfront with women that when they intentionally withhold intimacy from their husbands that it will directly result in men turning to porn, substance abuse, withdrawing into their own hobbies and personal pursuits or will result in the husband turning to other women or just plain leaving them. She has NEVER condoned the husband's infidelity because of the wife's lack of intimacy. So in other words if a wife refuses to put out and refuses to do anything about it, that is just cause for the husband to leave and she will have noone to blame but herself for being dragge into divorce court, but is not just cause for him to cheat. You are the one engaging in infidelity and is the cheater. she is just a dud.
YellowShark Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Infidelity is *anything* you wouldn't do in front of your spouse. It's not rocket science.
Author Mr_Confused Posted January 15, 2012 Author Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Yup. I agree with the general consensus here. Oh the clarity of hindsight... I could have left long ago with my head held high, now I will leave staring at the ground.... As they say, and per the book - All I need to Know I learned in Kindergarten - two wrongs don't make a right.... Life lessons are a lot cheaper on the soul and wallet when learned through listening than through experience. Damn....can't move in any direction but forward....so I will. Edited January 15, 2012 by Mr_Confused
FelicityShot Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 Yup. I agree with the general consensus here. Oh the clarity of hindsight... I could have left long ago with my head held high, now I will leave staring at the ground.... As they say, and per the book - All I need to Know I learned in Kindergarten - two wrongs don't make a right.... Life lessons are a lot cheaper on the soul and wallet when learned through listening than through experience. Damn....can't move in any direction but forward....so I will. I agree with the consensus too. Can we really learn a life lesson through listening? I suppose so, but it's a different way to learn. But I would add to the consensus, if a person who is unhappy in a M because their MP has violated any variety of M vows on an ongoing basis, then infidelity is more understandable. Someone with a great and loving spouse who chose that course would make me question their integrity. Some people are too weak to understand fully that they are being treated badly, until they experience some form of being treated well. This seems to me a home truth, and one which resonates through many tales here on LS. Infidelity is a particular type of disloyalty. I suspect that most non sex addicts who embark on it have one foot out of the M, while the other foot remains with the love and/or security of the spouse. But the betrayal of neglect is a painful and insidious monster. I would rather be cheated on than neglected. Really. It is easier and quicker to put a stop to cheating.
SoMovinOn Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 It's interesting to look at things from a different perspective, to look at the how and why. In this case, there is a label which has remained much the same over the centuries. It speaks to the concept of EA's, in that, fidelity in M has historically always been tied to having sex with someone outside the M, which would mean EA's are not A's at all, but obviously, break the marriage vows in some manner. To question the meaning of infidelity, I would think one would start by looking at what fidelity is. fi·del·i·ty [fi-del-i-tee, fahy-] noun, plural -ties. 1. strict observance of promises, duties, etc.: a servant's fidelity. 2. loyalty: fidelity to one's country. 3. conjugal faithfulness. 4. adherence to fact or detail. 5. accuracy; exactness: The speech was transcribed with great fidelity. Looking at the first definition, anything which breaks the observance of the marriage vows is, technically speaking, infidelity. However, I suppose however one comes about looking to define it, there would seem to be something going wrong in the M. No matter what one calls it or how it's labeled, it's a problem. In that case, the answers are the same; you either live with it, ignore it, fix it, or get out of the M.
whichwayisup Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 there would seem to be something going wrong in the M. Hmm, not always. Sometimes it's just one person who's broken and something going on wrong within that person. Just sayin'.
FelicityShot Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 It's interesting to look at things from a different perspective, to look at the how and why. In this case, there is a label which has remained much the same over the centuries. It speaks to the concept of EA's, in that, fidelity in M has historically always been tied to having sex with someone outside the M, which would mean EA's are not A's at all, but obviously, break the marriage vows in some manner. To question the meaning of infidelity, I would think one would start by looking at what fidelity is. fi·del·i·ty [fi-del-i-tee, fahy-] noun, plural -ties. 1. strict observance of promises, duties, etc.: a servant's fidelity. 2. loyalty: fidelity to one's country. 3. conjugal faithfulness. 4. adherence to fact or detail. 5. accuracy; exactness: The speech was transcribed with great fidelity. Looking at the first definition, anything which breaks the observance of the marriage vows is, technically speaking, infidelity. However, I suppose however one comes about looking to define it, there would seem to be something going wrong in the M. No matter what one calls it or how it's labeled, it's a problem. In that case, the answers are the same; you either live with it, ignore it, fix it, or get out of the M.[/QUOTE] Blimey SMO. I think that says it all. I think what you said in this post actually says everthing that can be said about it. And LS can now draw a line under its infidelity forum. I simply loved your post.
ThinkBelieve Posted January 16, 2012 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Curious on thoughts about what infidelity is, not sexual infidelity give it is clear. Just wondered what others thought as I read this summary one of the points made in Dr. Laura book "Proper Care and Feeding of husbands": " Infidelity by Omission. Brides and grooms make a number of vows, not only of sexual fidelity. Marital vows include and imply words like love, honor, protect, and care for. "[W]hen one breaches those vows by neglect, is that also not a form of infidelity? Perhaps we should start looking at the act of intentionally depriving a spouse of legitimate needs as infidelity, too, because it stems from being unfaithful to the intent of the vows." So, the question - is not doing something in adherence to your vows an act of infidelity or is it only doing something that violates vows an act of marital infidelity? Mr_Confused, thank you for posting the excerpt. I greatly appreciate this perspective. I agree with the consensus too. Can we really learn a life lesson through listening? I suppose so, but it's a different way to learn. I agree with this too...Maybe it is better to have lived and learned than never to have learned at all. It appears hindsight is 20/20, or even "high-definition", but, IMHO, without experiencing some of life's important lessons, where would one be today? Perhaps some of life's lessons were meant to be experienced? Perhaps it is what one does with the knowledge gained. To question the meaning of infidelity' date=' I would think one would start by looking at what fidelity is.[/i'] fi·del·i·ty [fi-del-i-tee, fahy-] noun, plural -ties. 1. strict observance of promises, duties, etc.: a servant's fidelity. 2. loyalty: fidelity to one's country. 3. conjugal faithfulness. 4. adherence to fact or detail. 5. accuracy; exactness: The speech was transcribed with great fidelity. I agree with FelicityShot on commending your post, thank you for sharing this. [Quote=Mr_Confused; 3801745] ....can't move in any direction except forward....so I will. Mr_Confused...I most sincerely wish you the best. Thank you for sharing all that you've shared. Edited January 16, 2012 by ThinkBelieve
Recommended Posts