Els Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Might aswell go to a trailer park and draw conclusions about the worldwide table etiquette. This. (10 ch)
LadyGrey Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Woggles wife probably wonders why he is distant and moody sometimes. She probably wonders what she has done wrong. She probably wonders why he spends all that time on the computer and then seems in a bad mood. She probably feels like she is fighting a losing battle, that no matter what she does, she is never going to convince him that she isn't those other women that he hates. She probably feels it is a battle that she can't win. She probably wonders why you don't love her enough to stop tormenting yourself and her. You are hurting her every time you do this and you are chopping away at the love she has for you. She may get fed up with you and your stuff one day Woggle and she may hit the door. Will that satisfy your need to view women as evil? It would be a self fulfilling fear, wouldn't it? Sadly, if it happens, you will put if all off on her and tell yourself she is just like all the other women, you won't be able to admit that you drove her away. Don't be a fool, trust your wife, you say she deserves that trust, then act like it and stop waiting for the other shoe to fall. If you don't it's gonna be a boot up your own ass by your own design.
Author Woggle Posted January 14, 2012 Author Posted January 14, 2012 Because most men who are married like being married and love their wife. Most women who are married wishes they were single. This right here. Deep down I believe most married women want a divorce. I wish I could be proven wrong.
johan Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 It's amazing how you are insecure on behalf of all men. As if what other women do to other men has something to do with you.
carhill Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 This right here. Deep down I believe most married women want a divorce. I wish I could be proven wrong. "The National Center for Health Statistics reports that from 1975 to 1988 in the U.S., in families with children present, wives file for divorce in approximately two-thirds of cases. In 1975, 71.4% of the cases were filed by women, and in 1988, 65% were filed by women.[31] It is estimated that upwards of 95% of divorces in the U.S. are "uncontested", because the two parties are able to come to an agreement without a hearing (either with or without lawyers/mediators/collaborative counsel) about the property, children and support issues." ------------------- So, it appears, when a divorce is filed, women are filing (as petitioner) for divorce at a lower rate (in the late 80's anyway) than when I was a teenager back in the 70's. Perhaps there are more current statistics which could support or refute that trend. From personal experience and going through the process, there can be a substantial potential for women who earn less (or nothing at all) to file, simply because their status can entitle them to free legal aid and for relief from filing fees. It's possible, even if the man is the initiator or the D was mutually agreed, that the couple will have the woman file to save them money on the process. When I visited the courthouse with my exW, there were few to no men waiting in line at the filing window or self-help desk. Predominantly it was women, often with children in tow.
Casablanca Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 that relationships between the genders are just not working anymore? I was reading some article on a website and the comments show how much bitterness and animosity there is between men and women. We still have sexual desire so why not just find a sex partner and then go home afterwards? Stop trying to force love and commitment between men and women because it is clearly not working anymore. Men and women pretty much hate each other for the most part and I see no softening of the bitterness so why try and make it happen in this kind of climate? If people believe things are not this bad go to any site like Daily Mail or Huffington Post or any of them and read the comments. Look at how many truly happy couples you know. Romance is dead and people need to face it. The internet is not the best place to get the pulse of men and women...I know plenty of people in happy relationships and I've had my share of them too Deep down I believe most married women want a divorce. I wish I could be proven wrong. A horrible thing to believe, not sure why you would think or believe this, but there is no way to prove this right or wrong...if someone wants a divorce, it is pretty easy to get now a days and it is not frowned upon.
snug.bunny Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 "The National Center for Health Statistics reports that from 1975 to 1988 in the U.S., in families with children present, wives file for divorce in approximately two-thirds of cases. In 1975, 71.4% of the cases were filed by women, and in 1988, 65% were filed by women.[31] It is estimated that upwards of 95% of divorces in the U.S. are "uncontested", because the two parties are able to come to an agreement without a hearing (either with or without lawyers/mediators/collaborative counsel) about the property, children and support issues." ------------------- So, it appears, when a divorce is filed, women are filing (as petitioner) for divorce at a lower rate (in the late 80's anyway) than when I was a teenager back in the 70's. Perhaps there are more current statistics which could support or refute that trend. From personal experience and going through the process, there can be a substantial potential for women who earn less (or nothing at all) to file, simply because their status can entitle them to free legal aid and for relief from filing fees. It's possible, even if the man is the initiator or the D was mutually agreed, that the couple will have the woman file to save them money on the process. When I visited the courthouse with my exW, there were few to no men waiting in line at the filing window or self-help desk. Predominantly it was women, often with children in tow. Oops, don't forget to include causes sited: Adultery; Extramarital sex; Infidelity - 27%Domestic violence - 17%Midlife crisis - 13%Addictions, e.g. alcoholism and gambling - 6%Workaholism - 6% According to this survey, husbands engaged in extramarital affairs in 75% of cases; wives in 25%. In cases of family strain, wives' families were the primary source of strain in 78%, compared to 22% of husbands' families. Emotional and physical abuse were more evenly split, with wives affected in 60% and husbands in 40% of cases. In 70% of workaholism-related divorces it was husbands who were the cause, and in 30%, wives. The 2004 survey found that 93% of divorce cases were petitioned by wives, very few of which were contested. 53% of divorces were of marriages that had lasted 10 to 15 years, with 40% ending after 5 to 10 years. The first 5 years are relatively divorce-free, and if a marriage survives more than 20 years it is unlikely to end in divorce. The age at which a person gets married is also believed to influence the likelihood of divorce; delaying marriage may provide more opportunity or experience in choosing a compatible partner.[29]
snug.bunny Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 But what about the causes of divorce cited? Adultery/Infidelity ----> 27% Domestic Violence ----> 17% Midlife Crisis ---> 13% Addictions ----> 6% Workaholism ----> 6% According to this survey, husbands engaged in extramarital affairs in 75% of cases; wives in 25%. In cases of family strain, wives' families were the primary source of strain in 78%, compared to 22% of husbands' families. Emotional and physical abuse were more evenly split, with wives affected in 60% and husbands in 40% of cases. In 70% of workaholism-related divorces it was husbands who were the cause, and in 30%, wives. The 2004 survey found that 93% of divorce cases were petitioned by wives, very few of which were contested. 53% of divorces were of marriages that had lasted 10 to 15 years, with 40% ending after 5 to 10 years. The first 5 years are relatively divorce-free, and if a marriage survives more than 20 years it is unlikely to end in divorce. The age at which a person gets married is also believed to influence the likelihood of divorce; delaying marriage may provide more opportunity or experience in choosing a compatible partner.
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Deep down I believe most married women want a divorce. I wish I could be proven wrong. That's pretty lame. Anybody who wants a divorce can easily get one; the desire does not have to be submerged. Plus, you yourself are always posting about "walk away wives" and how mindlessly all of us scummy, immoral, sleazebag, materialistic, hateful, man - hating women bail on our marriages without giving it any thought at all. It's so nice to come here and feel all the hate from you and your boyz, Woggle.
PlumPrincess Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 When I visited the courthouse with my exW, there were few to no men waiting in line at the filing window or self-help desk. Predominantly it was women, often with children in tow. A woman with children who files for divorce makes me think that her husband must have been really crappy. Most people don't want to get divorced and those with children must be even more reluctantly, because that would mean breaking the family apart. And if dating is not hard enough, imagine being single and having children.
whichwayisup Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 This right here. Deep down I believe most married women want a divorce. I wish I could be proven wrong. Aka your wife..So you think that pretty much every.single.woman who is married secretly wants a divorce and is waiting for something better to come along so she can just up and leave, divorce, start a new life with someone else. And, because you're letting such 'out there' thoughts, worries and fears continue to upset you, make you doubt your own marriage, now you're worried your wife secretly feels this way and is going to drop the D bomb on you one day.. Here's the kicker Woggle --> And you STILL don't get ---> Your wife would have DIVORCED you already if she wanted out of the marriage. She wouldn't have stuck around after your crazy ex came after you both, she wouldn't have stuck around after having to deal with your mom and those issues.. Fact is, your wife is BY YOUR SIDE, has your back and has proven herself to you over and over and over and over again and you still think she wants out.. You don't trust her, don't have faith in her, nor do you see that she DOES love you.. For who you are and all your baggage. Wake up and live for today, open your eyes, have faith and trust that the woman you married - Your wife - Has no plans on leaving you.
carhill Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 (edited) A woman with children who files for divorce makes me think that her husband must have been really crappy. Most people don't want to get divorced and those with children must be even more reluctantly, because that would mean breaking the family apart. And if dating is not hard enough, imagine being single and having children. Most people with means, at least in my neck of the woods, use lawyers who have couriers to do the filings, so I presume the people I saw in our multiple visits were low income or, like ourselves, agreed and preferred to be frugal about the process and the women were SAHM's and the men were at work. The court clerk who granted me access during self-help, something not normally done for a potential respondent, said that such a dynamic (cooperative self-help) was quite rare in her two decades of service. I also saw the advantage of being petitioner in that the petitioner gets 'first shot' at the process and this can result in them 'driving' the process, even though the legalities are ostensibly blind to who files and who responds. It's more of an emotional advantage IME. As an example, (not in fact), my exW could have made a number of motions in her FL100 which would have forced me to do a formal legal contest which could have cost a lot of money, not to mention emotional toll. I would have been on the defense from some simple checks and numbers on a form which cost next to nothing to put on the court record. That's an emotional advantage. She alluded to that advantage when she told my best friend that she 'could have taken him for more than she did'. That's real. IIRC, all the women I've dated have been divorced and the vast majority had children and some grandchildren. Most, of those who discussed marital history, said they filed for divorce. I did not check the court filings to verify that. Now that it's easier to do, I'll experiment Wrt children, IME it's been a mixed bag. Some women had great parental partnerships with their ex'es and others a nightmare. IMO, it all comes down to choice. People can accept that the M or LTR is done and part amicably and with respect for their former partner and co-parent, or not. Just like with the synergy which impels a relationship, synergy of a different type is necessary to co-parent effectively after it ends. IMO, the OP still has an emotional tape running from the time he was abused and abandoned and it will color his perspective on matters which trigger that tape. Hopefully, life experience and having a healthy marriage will put that tape back into the vault and its location will be forgotten. As few of us have had perfect lives, nearly all of us have tapes of some sort filed away which can be triggered. It's up to us to make healthy choices in the present to put those tapes into the perspective they deserve. Edited January 14, 2012 by carhill
Author Woggle Posted January 14, 2012 Author Posted January 14, 2012 Why do you think I like reading those happy relationship threads. It lets me know that at least some women are capable of being in a long term committed relationship without getting antsy and resenting the hell out of their men.
bean1 Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Cliffs: Us happily married women exist, we don't ask for much advice on LS, many guys here will never meet potentials like us because we avoid men with misogynist attitudes. You know what, I am a happily married woman. I first came here (in 2008 I think?) just for some advice while still dating him. Years later, married, kid, etc, and I am still very happily married. Participate from time to time, after all, I found this helpful when I needed it, so why not give back? But you'll never see me really write a thread about him, how great our married life is, etc. because what's the point? I *know* it's solid and I don't need to. Besides, it would be a bit redundant and I'll get some guy going in it and claiming I'm just wanting money/will get a divorce/cheat/or whatever. So us "happily married" women won't speak up particularly when we're facing men who are borderline misogynists. Those men DRIVE WOMEN AWAY. Yes, they seem to drive off those "harpies" that they detest, but they drive away those of us who are good potential wives and mothers. I know one guy who did just this years before I met my husband, I refused to date him because he had been burned in the past yet tarnished all women with the same feather. I'm sure he lumped me in with all other women for whatever reason, but the truth was that his attitude about dating was what turned me off. If a person deserves to be treated like an individual and a clean slate, without the garbage of your past being imposed on them, then you need to do that in return. Despite being cheated on in the relationship before I met my husband, I assumed he would be an honest person until proven otherwise and so far has not given me a single reason to worry. I expect to be treated in the same manner. You know, do unto others and all that yadda yadda....
OliveOyl Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Woggle, For the benefit of your healing, I think you should go NC (No Contact) on relationship threads and forums. You are caught in an endless loop and you need to break the cycle. You will only draw to yourself those things you expect to see, so the more you believe in bad relationships, the more negative articles and "confirming" posts you will find. It's like a drug for you but it has a very bad hangover effect. Really. Go No contact. Delete the LS and all other similar forums from your browser bookmarks. Refocus your energies elsewhere. That's my advice.
Pyro Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Woggle forgets he has a disorder. And then his negative thoughts become real for him. He gets upset by them and posts about it. People here respond and tell him he's not thinking straight, reminding him he has a disorder. So he processes that and waits a couple days for the impact of all the negative emotions to subside. Then he feels better, until Woggle forgets he has a disorder. And then his negative thoughts become real for him. He gets upset by them and posts about it. People here respond and tell him he's not thinking straight, reminding him he has a disorder. So he processes that and waits a couple days for the impact of all the negative emotions to subside. Then he feels better, until Woggle forgets he has a disorder. And then his negative thoughts become real for him. He gets upset by them and posts about it. People here respond and tell him he's not thinking straight, reminding him he has a disorder. So he processes that and waits a couple days for the impact of all the negative emotions to subside. Then he feels better, until Woggle forgets he has a disorder. And then his negative thoughts become real for him. He gets upset by them and posts about it. People here respond and tell him he's not thinking straight, reminding him he has a disorder. So he processes that and waits a couple days for the impact of all the negative emotions to subside. Then he feels better, until Woggle forgets he has a disorder. And then his negative thoughts become real for him. He gets upset by them and posts about it. People here respond and tell him he's not thinking straight, reminding him he has a disorder. So he processes that and waits a couple days for the impact of all the negative emotions to subside. Then he feels better, until Woggle forgets he has a disorder. And then his negative thoughts become real for him. He gets upset by them and posts about it. People here respond and tell him he's not thinking straight, reminding him he has a disorder. So he processes that and waits a couple days for the impact of all the negative emotions to subside. Then he feels better, until Woggle forgets he has a disorder. And then his negative thoughts become real for him. He gets upset by them and posts about it. People here respond and tell him he's not thinking straight, reminding him he has a disorder. So he processes that and waits a couple days for the impact of all the negative emotions to subside. Then he feels better, until ... for all the newer posters or those who forgot, this is an accurate description of Woggle and is why his threads need to be ignored completely. There is nothing that we can do for him. For his sake of sanity and for his wife I do hope that she stumbles across what he reads and posts online.
dasein Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 The "people here respond and tell him he's not thinking straight" seems to repeat 7-9 times in that passage also. Interesting. What frequency of repeated behavior without obtaining satisfactory results indicates disorder? I don't know the exact answer... maybe somewhere in the neigborhood of 7-9? Just an estimate.
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 What makes you think none of us have experiences comparable to Woggle's? I would argue that in fact many of us do. It has actually been called to his attention repeatedly that many of the women who try to help him over and over and over on these boards, women who he regularly thanks for helping him see light--and then turns around and insults and trashes days later in another fit of pique over something he read on a rag site--have also been burned badly in life, are also survivors of betrayal rape, molestation, domestic abuse, years of systematic misogyny. Perhaps your own horse is a bit higher than you'd like to believe. Everyone deals with their issues in a different way. So long as Woggle keeps this stuff out of his real life, who does it hurt? Are you hurt by this? Additionally, Woggle's issues begin with the relationship he has with his mother. Who else has had someone with similar issues to his/her mother emotionally abuse and attempt to murder them? Not me for sure. I'm defending Woggle here, not because I think what he is saying here is correct, but because what other posters are doing is flat out immoral and wrong. I'm guilty being a jerk sometimes... and I've actually appreciated it when you point that out to me. YOU personally have talked me back to reality on more than one occasion. Guess what... It's helped... and stuck. I've broken many of the negative patterns. It would have been much faster had people like you been the only ones to respond. Being attacked just entrenches the bad thought processes. So basically, you're defending "Propaganda"? Good to know... I do notice a slight difference though between you and OP. You seem to have the ability of reason, whereas, I don't see that in the OP's posts. All-in-all, thread propaganda is not fact, but rather based on one's perception shaped by his/her own experiences. Taking time to deliberately seek out the same negative perceptions to support his claim, and then taking the time to create a thread about it, is a problem. How about starting a thread, over in the "Self Improvement" section? I wasn't able to see reason 1 year ago. I just had so much negative feelings and nowhere to put them. I'm sorry but in many regards I just don't feel like people in my life are willing to accept my negative thoughts and feelings. I've sat and listened to negative rants by GF's or female friends... or sometimes even male friends, but I don't feel I can express those. I think Woggle may have a similar issue.
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 I think everybody has negative thoughts and feelings, and they do require a reasonable outlet. But wallowing, indulging, and focussing on them to the exclusion of all the positive is … sick. If Woggle's wife finds out how much disgust and loathing her husband carries for all women, including her, I don't see how she will be able to find him trustworthy. There is no way that a person can hate every member of an entire gender except for one. That would be like a person of color marrying a vehement racist, who claimed that the person of color was the single exception to all of their prejudiced ideas. Would NOT work. Prejudice is prejudice. Woggle, keep it up and you will succeed in creating a self fulfilled prophesy. Your wife will be very unhappy when she understands that you hate much of what she is - because she happens to be a woman.
Author Woggle Posted January 14, 2012 Author Posted January 14, 2012 I don't hate all women except one. There are plenty of good women but the state of gender relations just depresses me sometimes. Read the comments on those sites and you will see what I mean.
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 I don't hate all women except one. There are plenty of good women but the state of gender relations just depresses me sometimes. Read the comments on those sites and you will see what I mean. But that's not what your thread here is about. Your thread is calling for all of us to "face the fact" that we hate each other. We don't. YOU do, and a few other very virulent posters here on LS hate women too, but it's just a handful of you. I don't seek out the opinions of sick people in order to justify sick thoughts of my own. If I find myself wallowing in self pity and negativity, what I need to do is look for something positive and affirming to get me out of that bad place. I like the Huffington Post.
SincereOnlineGuy Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Will men and women just face the fact that relationships between the genders are just not working anymore Such a foolish position would make sense if your written prose were destined for a bulletin board backstage at Jerry Springer. For the truly healthy vast majority of society, relationships are working fine. Besides, you're living long ago if you recognize only "relationships between the genders".
Author Woggle Posted January 15, 2012 Author Posted January 15, 2012 Maybe you guys are right but reading comments like that just puts me in an us against them state of mind. When I hear hatred being thrown at my gender I want to fight back.
carhill Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 That's the emotional tape Wogs. Fight. I call it 'red time'.
neowulf Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Maybe you guys are right but reading comments like that just puts me in an us against them state of mind. When I hear hatred being thrown at my gender I want to fight back. So stop going looking for it Woggle. Seriously.. if you go looking for evil in this world, I *promise* you, you'll find it. As a long term sufferer of depression I can tell you.. you have to train yourself away from this. Its no different to an alcoholic. You're *addicted* feeding this negative perception of the world. It's poison Woggle. You can't change the world. You can't change the fact that some people, men and women, are going to be bitter and hateful. That doesn't mean they *all* are. Your perception is robbing you of happiness. I stopped watching the news for a month.. The world didn't end and I felt better not constantly focusing on all the **** that is wrong with the world. Be *grateful* for what you have.. because it can be taken away any time Woggle. I suspect you know that better than a lot of people.
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