Feelsgoodman Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Except, what you actually typed was: Yeah, because it wasn't just Thieves. Other female posters agreed with her.
Thieves Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 This thread is a perfect example of the differences between male and female logic. Male logic: if you are sexually attracted to the same sex, you are gay or bisexual. Your actions and desires determine your sexual identity. Female logic: if you are sexually attracted to the same sex, you could be gay, bisexual, straight, asexual, zoopheliac or just about anything else. Actions are of no consequence; it's all about how YOU chose to identify yourself. I've noticed women in general are very concerned about maintaining a certain image for themselves...but not necessarily with living up to it. That's why the sluttiest of women will try their hardest to pretend that they are good girls. Each logic has its good and bad points, and it's just a matter of opinion. However, to be honest, what I mostly retrieved from your post is that women seem to be slighlty more open when it comes to allowing other people to define their own sexuality (men or women)... a way of thinking which, again, seems more reasonable. What's so horrible about an individual defining their own sexuality as they go along in their own life? How is that hurting you, or anybody else? And why is it so necessary to have that person fit neatly into a nice little category? I believe that Kaylan was completely right in the opinion that sexuality is not always black and white, and I'm a bit surprised at how unwilling some people are to even look at the grey areas here.
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Anyway, who cares if "most" women are bisexual? Not saying it's true - but all that really matters is if the person YOU are sexually interested in is sexually into the gender that YOU happen to be. Right? Basically, it's none of your business. And, it's stupid to judge the population by a TV show.
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 "SOCIETY" in general thinks that "hawt" lesbians are hot. It's socially acceptable. There is not an implied loss of femininity in women having sex with each other. On the other hand, "SOCIETY" in general does not find male gay sex to be hot. There IS an implication of loss of masculinity when men are having sex with each other. Our society admires lipstick lesbians and presents that kind of sex as "sexy" to heteros. So, no wonder women are not too afraid of being labeled lesbos for life if they decide to mess around sexually with another woman. Personally, I do believe that men would have sex with their own gender much more often just for sexual release if it were not a taboo socially. It happens in prisons and other places where women are not available. That doesn't make the guys who do it definitely gay men.
silvermercy Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 "SOCIETY" in general thinks that "hawt" lesbians are hot. It's socially acceptable. There is not an implied loss of femininity in women having sex with each other. On the other hand, "SOCIETY" in general does not find male gay sex to be hot. There IS an implication of loss of masculinity when men are having sex with each other. Our society admires lipstick lesbians and presents that kind of sex as "sexy" to heteros. So, no wonder women are not too afraid of being labeled lesbos for life if they decide to mess around sexually with another woman. Personally, I do believe that men would have sex with their own gender much more often just for sexual release if it were not a taboo socially. It happens in prisons and other places where women are not available. That doesn't make the guys who do it definitely gay men. Exactly! Basically, to summarize all the above, I think it boils down to these facts: - lesbians are socially acceptable as long as they are feminine and hot. Once they lose their femininity (i.e. "butch" lesbians) they are not hot anymore and, thus, not socially acceptable (especially to those lesbian-loving hetero men). - gay men face greater homophobic behaviour because they are not supposed to lose their "superior" masculine characteristics. And since they adopt the "inferior" and much lower-ranked female characteristics, that's not socially acceptable of course. (God-forbid! lol) - Western media and porn have saturated all types of sexual images and messages with hot females. Images of hot males are scarce and are now usually associated with gay behavior, even if the male models are totally straight. As a result, Western females have subconsciously followed the established male logic: "females and lesbians are OK and hot, but gay men are not." (I'm talking about Western behavior all this time as, fortunately, in Asian countries, many females do what they are supposed to do without being worried if it's socially acceptable: that is, to like hot gay men. Just like men do with hot lesbians in the West.)
Dust Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 A show can't be proof of anything. I've never seen the show and don't know much about it. But my life experiences have shown me most girls are bi some more then others. I'm not saying all girls play with eachothers breasts, kiss sexually on the lips, or just touch a lot and enjoy it. I'm just saying most do. Nothing wrong with being gay or bi. I think more men would be bi if it wasn't for society. The thought of sucking a man's dick is something that never crossed my mind. But had I lived in ancient Greece or Rome or whatever maybe A good oiling up of me and my friends before a big battle would be customary. Our society promotes bi women. I mean look at the difference between a guy sleep over (rare) and female slumber parties...
Woggle Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 I gotta love the misandrist comments on that Daily Mail article yet people say I am being paranoid.
Dust Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 I gotta love the misandrist comments on that Daily Mail article yet people say I am being paranoid. Of course they're going to tell you you're paranoid. You know reality though. The thing is you're scared. Stop being scared.
Woggle Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Of course they're going to tell you you're paranoid. You know reality though. The thing is you're scared. Stop being scared. I agree. Just read the comments under that article to see how many women really feel about us. They tell me I am hating an entire gender but I am just responding to being the target of hatred.
Dust Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 I agree. Just read the comments under that article to see how many women really feel about us. They tell me I am hating an entire gender but I am just responding to being the target of hatred. It's long been known that women don't see the world the way men do in fact often hate the way we see things. The difference between you and me is I know better then to post the things you post and expect any responses then the ones you're getting. Also how can you be suprised by this you already know all this stuff! What are you afraid of?
Wolf18 Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 A show can't be proof of anything. I've never seen the show and don't know much about it. But my life experiences have shown me most girls are bi some more then others. I'm not saying all girls play with eachothers breasts, kiss sexually on the lips, or just touch a lot and enjoy it. I'm just saying most do. Nothing wrong with being gay or bi. I think more men would be bi if it wasn't for society. The thought of sucking a man's dick is something that never crossed my mind. But had I lived in ancient Greece or Rome or whatever maybe A good oiling up of me and my friends before a big battle would be customary. Our society promotes bi women. I mean look at the difference between a guy sleep over (rare) and female slumber parties... Sorry, I don't care what the society promotes, I would never be sexually attracted to another man. Our society, atleast here in NYC, is pretty big in supporting homosexuality (male and female) and it gives you bonus points in a lot of peoples eyes. Homosocialization is something that occurs when women are not around to provide nurture and affection for men, such as on a battlefield (there is even a word for it: Frontgemeinschaft). That doesn't translate to sex however. I actually enjoy drunkenly having my arm around my male buddies walking down the street, this doesn't mean I want to pound a man's butt. It feels good to be touched and to touch other people, in a completely non-sexual way. The gay stuff is a whole other issue, and if you actually read first hand historical references of people like Plato (such as his work "Symposium") you would see homosexuality was nowhere near as accepted as modern revisionist/liberal 'historians' want it to be. It's mostly based on quotes taken out of context such as stories of two men loving eachother or an older man mentoring a younger man. Just because I like to pet and play with my grandmas cat doesn't mean I tongue its bunghole when nobody's looking.
Woggle Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 It's long been known that women don't see the world the way men do in fact often hate the way we see things. The difference between you and me is I know better then to post the things you post and expect any responses then the ones you're getting. Also how can you be suprised by this you already know all this stuff! What are you afraid of? Because I refuse to be afraid of standing up for myself and my gender. I am male and proud and I plan to hold my head high instead of apologizing for being born with a penis.
Dust Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Sorry, I don't care what the society promotes, I would never be sexually attracted to another man. Our society, atleast here in NYC, is pretty big in supporting homosexuality (male and female) and it gives you bonus points in a lot of peoples eyes. Homosocialization is something that occurs when women are not around to provide nurture and affection for men, such as on a battlefield (there is even a word for it: Frontgemeinschaft). That doesn't translate to sex however. I actually enjoy drunkenly having my arm around my male buddies walking down the street, this doesn't mean I want to pound a man's butt. It feels good to be touched and to touch other people, in a completely non-sexual way. The gay stuff is a whole other issue, and if you actually read first hand historical references of people like Plato (such as his work "Symposium") you would see homosexuality was nowhere near as accepted as modern revisionist/liberal 'historians' want it to be. It's mostly based on quotes taken out of context such as stories of two men loving eachother or an older man mentoring a younger man. Just because I like to pet and play with my grandmas cat doesn't mean I tongue its bunghole when nobody's looking. You see now I'm wondering if you do tongue the cats bunghole. Let that be a lesson to you not to say something like that haha. Bottom line I think women are all very bi and it seems to be part of our culture to see girl friends who are just a little to into each others bodies. If me and a guy enjoyed holding hands a lot, cuddling on the couch togather and making out on ocasion when we get drunk that would be very bi. Thats what most girls these days do. They cuddle and get real touchy with their friends if not mroe.
Dust Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Because I refuse to be afraid of standing up for myself and my gender. I am male and proud and I plan to hold my head high instead of apologizing for being born with a penis. Please I don't apologize either but I know better then to make the coments you do and expect anything productive. You can't explain something that is so obvious you can't miss it even if you tried. It's not like you're teaching any one anything. You know what you know, and you know it's true. Thing is also no that there is nothing to be afraid of. Nothing.
Anela Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Of course they're going to tell you you're paranoid. You know reality though. The thing is you're scared. Stop being scared. I know you're trying to help him, but sometimes it IS paranoia. It sounds like Woggle, more than other guys, has reason to be paranoid because of his past (not his present - but I know how that goes with certain things in my own life). I hate that in another thread, he's believing strange women (who are most likely not feeling so good themselves, for whatever reason) and letting them speak for his wife. He's believing them over his own wife, who as far as we know, has given him no reason to worry. I'm ducking out now, but I just had to say that.
kaylan Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 A show can't be proof of anything. I've never seen the show and don't know much about it. But my life experiences have shown me most girls are bi some more then others. I'm not saying all girls play with eachothers breasts, kiss sexually on the lips, or just touch a lot and enjoy it. I'm just saying most do. Nothing wrong with being gay or bi. I think more men would be bi if it wasn't for society. The thought of sucking a man's dick is something that never crossed my mind. But had I lived in ancient Greece or Rome or whatever maybe A good oiling up of me and my friends before a big battle would be customary. Our society promotes bi women. I mean look at the difference between a guy sleep over (rare) and female slumber parties... You are very right about society's influence on sexuality. It really does promote and encourage women to experiment. However, most women I have met are straight. While a decent amount of girls in some areas are bi...this isnt the norm for most women at all.
Author quietGuy13 Posted January 15, 2012 Author Posted January 15, 2012 You see now I'm wondering if you do tongue the cats bunghole. Let that be a lesson to you not to say something like that haha. Bottom line I think women are all very bi and it seems to be part of our culture to see girl friends who are just a little to into each others bodies. If me and a guy enjoyed holding hands a lot, cuddling on the couch togather and making out on ocasion when we get drunk that would be very bi. Thats what most girls these days do. They cuddle and get real touchy with their friends if not mroe. Mmmmm....You seem to say it like if it wasn't for Society, you would like to do that. Well me and other men don't even if it was accepted.
Feelsgoodman Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Personally, I do believe that men would have sex with their own gender much more often just for sexual release if it were not a taboo socially. It happens in prisons and other places where women are not available. That doesn't make the guys who do it definitely gay men. You have no idea what the hell you are talking about. In jail, men get raped...they don't have sex for "sexual release". Prison sex is about humiliating and debasing the victim (and sadistically getting off on that). not about passion and sexual enjoyment. You are not a man, so you have no idea how unsettling the thought of homosexual intercourse is to a straight man. That's why it's such a taboo...it is literally one of the most repulsive things I can think of.
dasein Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 You are not a man, so you have no idea how unsettling the thought of homosexual intercourse is to a straight man. That's why it's such a taboo...it is literally one of the most repulsive things I can think of. Agreed, opening up the other side of the street would increase sexual options for a man by 100%, according to everything we hear about male sexuality, men should be lining up for that, right? We aren't though.
Titania22 Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Another reading comprehension fail. I was responding to Thieves, who stated that a woman could have sex with other females (what she calls "experimenting") and still be straight. Only a woman could say something like that. A man would never say "yeah, I like to suck cock and take it up the bum but I'm not gay at all!" Actually I have heard a man (apparently straight) say something very similar to that. Not so much "he likes to", but that he experiemented.
Feelsgoodman Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Actually I have heard a man (apparently straight) say something very similar to that. Not so much "he likes to", but that he experiemented. There's a big difference between being "apparently" straight and actually straight. Ted Haggard was apparently straight. He was an evangelical minister, had a wife and five kids, talked about family values a lot and was opposed to gay marriage. Then it turned out that he also liked to get high on meth and have sex with male escorts. Things aren't always what they appear.
Titania22 Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 There's a big difference between being "apparently" straight and actually straight. Ted Haggard was apparently straight. He was an evangelical minister, had a wife and five kids, talked about family values a lot and was opposed to gay marriage. Then it turned out that he also liked to get high on meth and have sex with male escorts. Things aren't always what they appear. Well I only used the word apparently, because the guy in question swears he is straight. That under the influence of alcohol and some drug (i don't know which one), "it seemed like a good idea at the time". I was only asserting evidence against against your claim that "a man would never say..." And to everyone else, television plays a huge role in determining how some people perceive they are expected to be in the world. It wasn't until some television shows showed women kissing (about a decade ago, i can't remember exactly what year it started springing up), that I started thinking i was supposed to be kissing girls now. There even was a feeling that guys wanted girls who would kiss other girls, and a fear that i would not get a guy, because obviously guys are going to choose girls that would kiss other girls (to fulfill his own vicarious pleasure) over one who won't. Laughable and rediculous isn't it, but that is the message television was giving me, and if i got that message i am sure other girls younger than me picked up the same message at that time. So as a result I made myself kiss another girl, it wasn't so bad and i could do it again, for the pleasure of some guy who gets off on such a thing. But I would never do anything more with a girl, I am completely heterosexual. If anything the experience answered the question once and for all. And in this city I sometime wish I was lesbian or bi, there are beautiful single women everywhere, and where are the men. It would certainly make my life easier and less lonely. But unfortunately wishing it or even watching a tv show, isn't going to make it happen.
kaylan Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) You have no idea what the hell you are talking about. In jail, men get raped...they don't have sex for "sexual release". Prison sex is about humiliating and debasing the victim (and sadistically getting off on that). not about passion and sexual enjoyment. You are not a man, so you have no idea how unsettling the thought of homosexual intercourse is to a straight man. That's why it's such a taboo...it is literally one of the most repulsive things I can think of. My uncle has been in prison and he can tell you for a fact that men in there will date and have sex with guys for emotional and physical companionship. Its not always rape and control situations. Some people long for companionship and make due with their surroundings. Dont speak about what you do not know. Homosexual acts do nothing for me because I am straight, but im not repulsed by it, male or female. People will do what they do. Guys who need to over exaggerate just how repulsed they are by it are over compensating usually and trying to prove how straight they are. Same way women who act weird about lesbians. I have met some ladies like that and its stupid. The black community in general is very homophobic, and even more so if youre from the Caribbean. Im above the socialization that demonizes gay men but praises lesbian women. Its just people having sex at the end of the day and I dont give a crap what they do. Edited January 15, 2012 by kaylan
ThaWholigan Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 The black community in general is very homophobic, and even more so if youre from the Caribbean. Im above the socialization that demonizes gay men but praises lesbian women. Its just people having sex at the end of the day and I dont give a crap what they do. Yep, I was raised as a rasta for many years, and about 85% of the people I know are very homophobic. I am personally not bothered about gay people (I think there is a bit too much gayness on TV but easily avoidable), but I am always a little stunned at the completely hatred of homosexuals by my peers and family. As far as I'm concerned, it's nothing to do with me. It comes from the Christian thing though, Judaism dictates that it's a sin, hence the rage against it. I personally don't know whether it is or isn't so it's not my place to judge or hate them, they are just people at the end of the day.
Thieves Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 If having female homosexual tendencies required getting sodomized you'd magically see the number of bi women plummet Somehow, I doubt it. They'd probably be more subtle with it, or hide their bisexuality much more, but that doesn't mean that the number of bisexual women would 'plummet'. It just wouldn't be as visible to society as a whole, like the way it sadly still is now with closeted homosexual men.
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