Author UmsteadE Posted January 14, 2012 Author Posted January 14, 2012 If you believe the clearest way a woman can show her commitment to you is by having intercourse with you, that is your reality. Own it. Go with it. End this.I believe a relationship has to have everything in order for it to work and sex is an important aspect. Otherwise, it feels like either I'm doing all the work for nothing or we're not on the same page. Afterall, incompatibility is one of the main causes for break-ups or divorces.
phineas Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 That would be very unfortunate. This is probably where the ability to turn a woman on and be attractive and be great in bed will have an effect . In my opinion, this is just one of many things to aspire to what I meant was the women who defend the "make him wait" women don't like sex. I mean why deprive yourself of something you enjoy?
somedude81 Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Yes it was about 2 weeks ago. She didn't told him this from the beginning. I haven't even heard from her today all day long. OK, I was thinking that you haven't talked to her since she refused sex. From your latest posts I was getting the impression that you were going to break up with her because you haven't been able to get a hold of her. And that she could have been avoiding you after what happened. But you just haven't talked to her today right? I think you just chill out for now. Then try to get frisky with her later on.
Author UmsteadE Posted January 14, 2012 Author Posted January 14, 2012 How do you show a woman you are good in bed if she won't even get naked for you?Not only that but she wouldn't do the other things either (not even fingering nor oral sex). All we ever did was deeply making-out on the bed and some caressing but with our clothes.
Author UmsteadE Posted January 14, 2012 Author Posted January 14, 2012 OK, I was thinking that you haven't talked to her since she refused sex. From your latest posts I was getting the impression that you were going to break up with her because you haven't been able to get a hold of her. And that she could have been avoiding you after what happened. But you just haven't talked to her today right?Correct, I still can't get a hold of her.
ThaWholigan Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 what I meant was the women who defend the "make him wait" women don't like sex. I mean why deprive yourself of something you enjoy? Sorry, I was reading some David Deida book that lead me to this belief. I think there are a lot of women who will deprive themselves of sex unless they are firmly attracted to the man and are convinced he will be good in bed. Psychologically if they think the sex will be good with you, they will enjoy it more, then from there the floor (or bed lol) is yours. How do you show a woman you are good in bed if she won't even get naked for you? And honestly, guys that can break through those types of women's force shield are not looking to wife them up so why would I even bother when there are women I can like just as fine who WANT to have sex with me? If you know how to be attractive in the way you carry yourself (emotionally and physically), you are good with words and can be seductive whenever you choose without fear or any other invading entity, it should not be difficult for her to want to get naked for you. This is just what I believe though on a personal level. And yes, you're right, guys who can attract those women would not want to stick around due to so much options, but it really depends on how compatible you think you are to this person. I think your last sentence is crucial to the belief though. Women who want to have sex with you will increase in number and volume once one can increase ones attractiveness, physically and mentally/emotionally.
ThaWholigan Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Not only that but she wouldn't do the other things either (not even fingering nor oral sex). All we ever did was deeply making-out on the bed and some caressing but with our clothes. That doesn't sound too promising. Either she's been burned real bad or she's not attracted to you enough. It's a tough call, but I would probably leave this relationship. If I could not guarantee her attraction to me, I would cease to continue. It's up to you though, I could be wrong.
carhill Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 I believe a relationship has to have everything in order for it to work and sex is an important aspect. Otherwise, it feels like either I'm doing all the work for nothing or we're not on the same page.To break that down, you apparently believe that providing intercourse is most of the woman's 'work' in the relationship and, if unfulfilled, there is marked imbalance in the labor dynamic. As basis for this assertion, I'm using the current dynamic as described, along with your statement that 'otherwise, it feels like I'm doing all the work' or 'we're not on the same page.' The lack of intercourse, absent any other dynamic, causes you to feel you're doing all the work. That's valid. I would definitely agree that you and she are not on the same page. That's clear from the words typed so far. Hypothetically, what do you see as a healthy middle ground, presuming current circumstances and her observable behaviors showing commitment, attention and affection? A middle ground which would make you feel like you're not doing all the work? Perhaps one potential is to use this experience to leverage quicker and more decisive proactive choices in the future. It's good information
Jynxx Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Marrying that chick will either lead to a sexless life or to a life with occasional terrible sex. If you want that then fine, but you might consider staying single as then nobody can take half your assets
snug.bunny Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 that's why I used the money / travel analogy. Kaylan's point opened my mind of reason a bit more, so I was better able to respond to that. I do see your point though and I can see how some guys are a bit hesitant in that regard.
thatone Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 furthermore, i would add that if you wait another couple of months you'll find out that this girl isn't really all that interesting. sure, you want to have sex with her now, but what happens when that's a regular thing? i'll also apply the stereotype that women who dangle sex like a carrot asking for marriage or long term commitment just don't have much to offer but sex.
FredRutherford Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Not only that but she wouldn't do the other things either (not even fingering nor oral sex). All we ever did was deeply making-out on the bed and some caressing but with our clothes. Let me give you some perspective. An older woman I dated in my late 20s for 1.5 yrs. or so, she was a never-married non-virgin who only had sex 1-2X or so, but was a woman of faith as well. She and I did a lot of "everything... but" which got so close but knowing her stance, I didn't always press her (though of course, I wanted to:D). She wasn't a virgin of course but wanted to make sure her feelings were right before we consummated, which I totally respected, as I could see her as marriage material. I know right it's so weird. To make it even weirder she's actually an atheist but according to her, she just chose this path because she now wants to make it meaningful. :confused: There are 20-something old virgin agnostic women on this board who have standards and want to wait until things feel right, so waiting isn't necessarily a religious thing. The only case where I would see myself possibly marrying a virgin woman is if she didn't really tell me about it and I love her. If it was that, then I would be willing to sacrifice sex to be with her. If you're not comfortable with her stance, then you're not compatible, like others have posted. I know right it's so weird. To make it even weirder she's actually an atheist but according to her, she just chose this path because she now wants to make it meaningful. :confused: One other thought on the waiting until marriage stance, perhaps she really is wanting to wait until marriage.. but with the right person. You've only dated her for 2 mos. That's not a lot of time. Give her some time to "clarify" her feelings. Her stance is her "boundary" and is entirely legitimate, as is any partner's boundaries. If you like her enough and consider this woman marriage material, then waiting won't hurt.
FredRutherford Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 I think though, if I really and truly loved him and I knew with all my heart that he wanted to wait because it would be more special, I could happily wait until marriage for him. I'm not sure though, that is realistic. Are there a lot of guys who are non-virgins who want it "to be special"? I'm sure not seeing it on these boards... Not so sure about your skepticism. I know a man who was a big partier and womanizer during his teenage and college years. He met this sweet virgin Christian woman and really fell for her. He straightened his ways, is clean and sober, and today, you'd never know about his past (I didn't know him then, just going on what he's told me). So it is possible for non-virgin guys -- esp. those with limited experience (like I was) -- to be willing to wait and gamble on a potentially great relationship. Could see myself doing that....
Disenchantedly Yours Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Its not competition but it is unfair to punish this guy for the what happened in previous relationships. She got issues she needs to deal with so this guy needs to send her on her way. Its a symptom of something bigger who knows what else she might do because of previous bad relationships. Umm...who said he was being "punished". it's her body and she can do with it what she wants. Just because she has had sex with other men, and now wants to approach her relationships differently, doesn't mean she has issues. There is nothing wrong with waiting for sex until marriage if that's what you want to do. It's not any less healthy then people who jump into bed together quickly. It doesn't mean the OP is wrong either if he is not okay with this. They are simply not compatabile.
snug.bunny Posted January 14, 2012 Posted January 14, 2012 Not so sure about your skepticism. I know a man who was a big partier and womanizer during his teenage and college years. He met this sweet virgin Christian woman and really fell for her. He straightened his ways, is clean and sober, and today, you'd never know about his past (I didn't know him then, just going on what he's told me). When I hear the term "womanizer" I think of men like Russell Brand. That's an extreme example, and it sounds like your friend was able to overcome his prior "addiction". That's good to hear. So it is possible for non-virgin guys -- esp. those with limited experience (like I was) -- to be willing to wait and gamble on a potentially great relationship. Could see myself doing that.... Well that is why I questioned whether or not a non-virgin male, who wanted to abstain from sex until marriage, was realistic because I haven't seen too many examples in this thread. Did your friend and his girlfriend end up abstaining from sex until they were married?
thatone Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Umm...who said he was being "punished". it's her body and she can do with it what she wants. Just because she has had sex with other men, and now wants to approach her relationships differently, doesn't mean she has issues. There is nothing wrong with waiting for sex until marriage if that's what you want to do. It's not any less healthy then people who jump into bed together quickly. It doesn't mean the OP is wrong either if he is not okay with this. They are simply not compatabile. umm, yes she does. people who make drastic changes in their behavior and think everyone else is supposed to magically accept and accommodate them have serious issues. either that or she's lying. pick one.
FredRutherford Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 (edited) Originally Posted by FredRutherford So it is possible for non-virgin guys -- esp. those with limited experience (like I was) -- to be willing to wait and gamble on a potentially great relationship. Well that is why I questioned whether or not a non-virgin male, who wanted to abstain from sex until marriage, was realistic because I haven't seen too many examples in this thread. Did your friend and his girlfriend end up abstaining from sex until they were married? Haven't asked them directly about that (and don't plan to , too sensitive of a topic), but from what others say, they did wait and yes, she likely remained a virgin until marriage, though he wasn't, but I think he regrets his past, like some of us did as well. From what I know about them, I think it was clear she was a Christian woman at the time... On my earlier statement... Originally Posted by FredRutherford So it is possible for non-virgin guys -- esp. those with limited experience (like I was) -- to be willing to wait and gamble on a potentially great relationship. Could see myself doing that.... Understand waiting was hard in the 70s and hard now, just as it's always hard. I didn't wait ( a regret ). Didn't really realize I had a choice and just pressed my HS GF.... Honestly, with my future wife, I only wanted to do some "everything...but" like I'd done with a couple of other women in my late 20s... but she gave me the green light. After years of relationship failures, when I met her in my early 30s, she didn't resist my advances and it all seemed so natural... This was 4 mos. into our dating. A never-married non-virgin (she only had 1 partner -- a former fiance -- years before me), if she told me she wanted to wait, to make sure she had feelings for me and to make our experience more special.... ....honestly, I wouldn't had any problem with that and wouldn't try to persuade her otherwise.... ....nor threaten to leave if I didn't "get some..." Yes, it would have been hard, but in my heart, I am confident I would have patiently waited for her as I could see a long-wanted life partner coming out of this... And I was ready for some romance...... Edited January 15, 2012 by FredRutherford
Lovelybird Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 some of male posters said too cold things here. Who said if she made mistakes in the past, then she cannot change it in the future? why should she continue to be hurt if she was in the past? If you value her as a person, then you would see what kind of woman she is now. rather than see if she "put out" or not.
FredRutherford Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 A never-married non-virgin (she only had 1 partner -- a former fiance -- years before me), if she told me she wanted to wait, to make sure she had feelings for me and to make our experience more special.... ....honestly, I wouldn't had any problem with that and wouldn't try to persuade her otherwise.... ....nor threaten to leave if I didn't "get some..." Yes, it would have been hard, but in my heart, I am confident I would have patiently waited for her as I could see a long-wanted life partner coming out of this... And I was ready for some romance...... As can't edit-in this, want to add: Of course, she's no longer a "virgin," but that doesn't mean she doesn't have a say on if or when we ML. I wouldn't think it hypocritical on her part if she wanted to wait, despite her not being virginal anymore.... Now, if she lectured me on how important it is to wait (when she didn't with another guy, neither did I), that'd be something else.... Didn't "expect" her to give me sex. It wasn't "assumed" we'd have sex merely bec. we'd dated for X amount of time.. I couldn't force myself on her and wouldn't want to. I wanted a willing partner. And I believe I would have been patient with her. It's always up to the other partner and that other person's boundaries anyway.
SincereOnlineGuy Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 People what would you think if your nonvirgin bf or gf came up with that thing? I've been dating this woman for 2 months and I'm sure if whether to continue dating her or break it off. Part of me tells me this is really BS. I would understand if she was a virgin and would wait but she's not. She has been with 6 men in the past. As a man I careless about a woman's past or inexperience but the leading me on and pretending to be or acting like something you're not is what bothers me. Why would a nonvirgin all of the sudden wanted to wait till marriage? What difference does it makes? She did it with the other 6 men so what's the big deal about it? Your criteria and general statements are absurd. You write as if you're totally unaware of just how many NON-virgins there are who qualify as such through no CHOICE of their own. I suggest you not approach some deeply religious, regular church-going 16-year-old girl who was a recent rape victim with your thoughtless generalizations. I can just envision you grilling such a person with: ""Why would a nonvirgin all of the sudden wanted to wait till marriage?"" <sic>
thatone Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 As can't edit-in this, want to add: Of course, she's no longer a "virgin," but that doesn't mean she doesn't have a say on if or when we ML. I wouldn't think it hypocritical on her part if she wanted to wait, despite her not being virginal anymore.... Now, if she lectured me on how important it is to wait (when she didn't with another guy, neither did I), that'd be something else.... Didn't "expect" her to give me sex. It wasn't "assumed" we'd have sex merely bec. we'd dated for X amount of time.. I couldn't force myself on her and wouldn't want to. I wanted a willing partner. And I believe I would have been patient with her. It's always up to the other partner and that other person's boundaries anyway. and i'm gonna guess that she's the one who initiated the break up, right?
Disenchantedly Yours Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 umm, yes she does. people who make drastic changes in their behavior and think everyone else is supposed to magically accept and accommodate them have serious issues. either that or she's lying. pick one. Excuse me but it wasn't like they were having sex for a year, and then she just decided that she didn't want to have sex anymore until marriage. (Even if that was the situation, she is still allowed to make it. Again, it's her body.) Not all "drastic" (although I wouldn't call this "drastic) changes are bad. And it's not like she is throwing some kind of "tantrum" of childishness where everyone else is "supposed to magically accept and accomdate her". She is making a choice about her body and her relationships and how she wants to conduct them. This is what adults do. He either can agree respect her choice and continue his relationship with her to get to know her better, or he is free to move on to a woman that will have sex in the timeline he wants. She is free to do what she wants with her body and he is free to do what he wants with his. He is free to accept her choice, or not.
Feelsgoodman Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Excuse me but it wasn't like they were having sex for a year, and then she just decided that she didn't want to have sex anymore until marriage. (Even if that was the situation, she is still allowed to make it. Again, it's her body.) Not all "drastic" (although I wouldn't call this "drastic) changes are bad. And it's not like she is throwing some kind of "tantrum" of childishness where everyone else is "supposed to magically accept and accomdate her". She is making a choice about her body and her relationships and how she wants to conduct them. This is what adults do. He either can agree respect her choice and continue his relationship with her to get to know her better, or he is free to move on to a woman that will have sex in the timeline he wants. She is free to do what she wants with her body and he is free to do what he wants with his. He is free to accept her choice, or not. Sure, she's making a choice about her body. Someone who gets a big hairy penis tattooed on their forehead is also making a choice about their body. Just because you are "making a choice about your body" does not mean you can not be ridiculed for it.
FredRutherford Posted January 15, 2012 Posted January 15, 2012 Sure, she's making a choice about her body. Someone who gets a big hairy penis tattooed on their forehead is also making a choice about their body. Just because you are "making a choice about your body" does not mean you can not be ridiculed for it. Lifestyle choices, like not drinking to excess or not having sex with everyone you date, that's a world of difference compared to a stupid tatoo or music or car preferences...
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