Author SingVoice Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 No, the overreaction isn't that you're pissed at him--you should be--you're overreacting because you believe this is enough to break up over. So then what do you suggest? Honestly...I'm not trying to be a dick here, but so many other people on this site have been through this situation and thats what they are basing their opinions off of. I'm not saying it's totally black and white...but there are a lot of people who were in this situation, forgave the person, only to find out that down the line they shouldn't have. I still firmly believe he is not a cheater.
PinkInTheLimo Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Ahhh things were going so well. I met this guy on EH about 2 months ago. We clicked right away...and after about 2 weeks we decided we weren't going to see other people. Eventually it progressed into a relationship. Things were wonderful...for both of us. We had JUST had a talk over the weekend about how happy we both were and how great things were progressing. Last night he sent me a couple of updated pictures of himself. (We had this ongoing joke about how his EH pictures were awful compared to how he really looked). So I made a joke asking him if he put the latest pics on EH...and he said jokingly "Yes. Hopefully will get lots of hits." (I know he was kidding). But I had this weird feeling, so I looked on EH (I am not a member anymore) and saw that he HAD uploaded the pictures!!!! I told him I was hurt. He called me immediately and apologized OVER and OVER. He said he had gotten some new pics and was updating all of his pictures (facebook...his professional website...etc). He swore over and over that since he met me he hasn't even talked to another woman...and I believe him about that because he calls me everyday...and he is really busy at work. I am not upset because I think he is seeing other people because I don't. I am upset because we were in an exclusive relationship and I feel like this means that we are definitely not on the same page. I feel like it means that he doesn't value what we have if he is coming up with some kind of "backup" or something. I am having a hard time processing this...so I wanted to get some opinions. I can't seem to come up with a reason that isn't awful why he would do this. He is a very moral and good person...has a good job...is passionate about life. Aside from this things in the relationship were really great...he treated me wonderfully. He apologized about 100 times and asked repeatedly what he could do to make it better...he assured me over and over that I am the only one he wants to be with...and he doesn't even know why he did it...he feels like an idiot and an A**hole...etc. Any thoughts on this? As hard as it is to see him for what he is, he is a disgusting liar. I can understand that one updates one's pictures one social media, on one's website but he should have been gone from that dating site as soon as you told each other you exclusive. Does the guy even know what exclusive means? I think it is pretty clear for everyone what it means so this is not something that has happened by accident (although some men are very good at pretending that these things just happened). This is a huge red flag and gives you a look into how the future with him will look. He will be the kind of guy who does not respect your boundaries and someone who is like that will probably never change. Sorry to hear that you have to go through this.
EnigmaticClarity Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 So then what do you suggest? Well he's already getting raked over the coals, so his punishment has already been meted out. Right now if I'm him, I'm thinking I'm a huge ****ing dick and need to never do this again, but if THIS is enough to break up over, I'm glad this came up now, because when real adversity hits later on, who knows how you'd react. For your security, you need to make it clear to him exactly where he failed in communication (sounds like you already have), get him to a place where you're satisfied that he understands the mistake he made, and keep talking until you see an attitude in him that suggests he'll communicate these sorts of issues as they come up.
ditzchic Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) OP, I really think if you are having trust issues in the relationship this early on it's probably best to just let it go. Once trust is broken and there's room for doubt it's really hard to repair. At this early stage in the game it's unlikely that the relationship is strong enough to have what it takes to get through the repair. This may be one of those situations where it's best to cut your losses, unpack the baggage, move on and hope that if it's really meant to be you will meet again. If you let the distrust fester things can get pretty ugly. Edited January 13, 2012 by ditzchic
PinkInTheLimo Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 WOW. Thanks for all the replies everyone. The situation just got a bit more complicated.... He just told me that he was sensing that I was pulling away from him (I have been really busy the last couple of weeks with work...but I have been still making him a priority)...and he was worried a couple of times that I didn't want to see him again. (Uhhhh....what? we are in a relationship, right?!?!) I think that he is a little insecure. He used to be fat as a kid...and now he is in really good shape, but I always sensed there was some insecurity there. I think that he got insecure....and then did a STUPID AND IMMATURE thing as a defense thing. Still not a good thing....still crappy...but at least there is a reason other than "uhhhh I don't know why I did it." Wow it gets even better. At first he pretends that this was just done while he was updating other things (which is a load of BS of course) and now it turns out there is a reason for this. If he felt that you were pulling away from him, he should have told you. The fact that he acted behind your back shows how immature this is. The beginning of a relationship very often shows how the relationship will be. With this guy you risk to have to constantly check if he did not cross your boundaries. You will never feel secure with him. Dump him, you have hardly known him. If he has some potential, he might learn from it.
2sunny Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 He obviously isn't the mature man you thought he COULD be: He didn't honor the idea of what "exclusive" means to you. He didn't communicate when you got busy and he "felt insecure". What does he intend to DO differently next time you get busy? Are you expected to hold his hand so it insures he won't consider cheating? How can you rely on him to be honest - speak his truth? IF you are assuming he is responsible and mature - you will learn that he's not... At least NOT in the emotional arena. You can't MAKe him be emotionally aware - its exhausting! Now that he knows - what has he offered to change things? What is his plan IF you stay together - and he "feels you pulling away"? Can he talk about it with you instead of just going behind your back and causing harmful feelings?
shayla Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 A manupulative and passive aggressive man gets caught, he can and will turn it around to where it's all your fault and you are apologizing to him! My ex was this way. Even now, after all that happened, to hear him tell it (and he tells these lies every chance he gets) I'm the angry black woman that nagged him and was mean to him and blah blah blah...not that he was the lying cheater that treated me like dirt for 3 years, oh, 2 years, we broke up loooong before he met the other woman he married....right! I will tell you this. If I had stopped and dumped him the first time something didn't feel right, I could have avoided all this mess, and it's a big mess believe me. Right after I met him, he lied to me about his name. Small thing,sure. But that led to bigger and bigger things. This sounds like the same kind of thing to me. Good luck.
salparadise Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Overreacting because my BOYFRIEND is updating his online dating profile?? Should I have just said "ok no honey it's totally fine that you are updating your DATING profile"? [..] I think I am allowed to have a reaction to that. I'm pretty level headed and I don't fly off the handle about things...but I know I am allowed to have a reaction to that. I don't think you should've said, "ok no honey it's totally that you are updating your dating profile," obviously. But all of this controversy is based in the ASSUMPTION that his intent was to cheat. I remain unconvinced and don't see how you can logically make that leap. A bonehead mistake, obviously. I see the fact that he updated the same pics on several sites all at once as a significant mitigating factor in that he may very well have been only thinking about replacing all of his old pics with the new ones and didn't give it much consideration beyond that. This is not the same as if he was giving the profile a complete renovation, which would indicate the intent that most people are ascribing. In fact, I am amazed at how quickly people jump to the worst possible conclusion. The majority of posters on this site, as seen throughout many threads, are predisposed to advising others to "dump him." Also consider that when it came up in conversation, before you checked the site, that he actually told you he had replaced the pics. That is not something a person would do if his motive was disingenuous and he was afraid of getting caught. You may find this hard to believe, but he has actually been very respectful with regard to the sex thing. He told me that before we ever had sex we would have to have the exclusivity talk. And even when we were getting close to that point, he said "Well of course I have thought about it, but I'm totally fine with waiting too." And I believe him. I don't find it hard to believe at all. People are inherently fallible. Sometimes people with the best of intentions screw up. If we demand perfection, attribute motive, rush to judgment, and are willing to crucify someone for the tiniest perceived slight then we are destined to spend our lives alone because we will only see the flaws and not the good in people. This statement indicates that you are starting to look at the big picture rather than continuing to focus on this single detail, and that is a much more rational and mature way to assess the situation. I think you must step back from your own emotional reaction, realize that updating pics across several web sites all at once could very well have been an innocuous endeavor, and try to understand whether he is essentially a sincere or disingenuous person. This action was, in all probability, not inconsistent with his overall nature in this regard. All of the negativity in this thread is based on knee-jerk attribution of motive to this man. The meaning that is being generally assigned (that he's a bad man trying to cheat) has more to do with fears, pain, and egoic selves doing the interpreting than it does to objective reality. SingVoice, we are all familiar with the adage, 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder.' I am certain that the same is true of meaning. "Our subjective experience is just that. The problem is that too often we forget that we are assigning meaning to things. We assign labels to experience and call them ‘good’ or ‘bad’. Language was developed by us to help assign meaning. It has tremendous value, but the true essence of things exists beyond the labels we give them. The great philosopher poet Rumi said, “Stop the words now. Open the window in the center of your chest, and let the spirits fly in and out.” It seems paradoxical, but often times a change in our lives for the better, can actually temporarily cause us to feel worse. The mirror of self as we understand it will tell us that we are small, that we are not ready to inhabit this larger energetic space with all the pleasures and wisdom that come with it. This can show up as resistance. And the mirror of the universe will reflect back to exactly what we are feeling and thinking while we resist change. Often, this resistance to change becomes so intense, that we forget completely that we are helping to create the play unfolding before our eyes."
2sunny Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) I agree - the smaller issue is him playing "ignorance" (I'm sorry - I didn't know)! The bigger issue is the way he has tried to make it your fault!!! This IS totally a move that abusive men pull!!! Making YOU responsible for his bad behavior - there's NO excuse for this type of action - except abuse! It WILL make YOU question yourself... It's designed perfectly that way - that's why it's abuse. A real man won't make you question a thing! Never settle! Edited January 13, 2012 by 2sunny
EnigmaticClarity Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 The majority of posters on this site, as seen throughout many threads, are predisposed to advising others to "dump him." I'm beginning to agree with you. I hadn't noticed it before this week, but yea, I'm seeing quite a few people posting here who have been around awful men who project those far worse experiences onto comparatively minor situations posted in these threads.
ditzchic Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I'm beginning to agree with you. I hadn't noticed it before this week, but yea, I'm seeing quite a few people posting here who have been around awful men who project those far worse experiences onto comparatively minor situations posted in these threads. Hindsight is 20/20. Lots of little things often add up to be big things. People come on forums like this to ask questions of people who have already been through similar situations. People that have dealt with these types of things know to see this as a sign. She's getting the answers she sought. And really, people don't usually post questions to anonymous internet strangers unless it is really eating at them. This early on in a relationship if something is eating at you that bad ending it is probably for the best, wouldn't you agree?
Author SingVoice Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 Sal- I really enjoy your responses. I think you have a way of seeing both sides of the issue rationally. I think you are exactly right, the reason I haven't out and dumped him yet is because I am starting to look at the bigger picture. Everyone on here can (and probably will) call me a fool....but up until this event, he has NEVER EVER EVER been shady about dating. I have ALWAYS known where I stood. From the day we met...he has always replied to or initiated text conversation. He has called consistently. He has tried to plan thoughtful dates for us. He always asks me out ahead of time for dates. I have not once felt like he was playing some kind of "game" with me. And while many of you may scoff at that, I have done a lot of online dating, and I have experienced a LOT of that kind of behavior that left me wondering, "what the heck is going on here?" I think that is why this came as SUCH a shock to me because he hadn't exhibited ANY of this kind of behavior. (And I truly mean that...most of the time when something like this happens you look back and go...yeah well he was kind of shady about this in the beginning or he was kind of playing this game...). And I think that I was really quick to categorize him into that category based on this one event. This is why I am taking time to think about this. I know a lot of you have been in situations like this before, and believe me, I HAVE TOO. That's why I want to make sure I look at the whole picture before making a decision. For those of you who have gone through this...I want to ask you HONESTLY...when you ended it...didn't you look back and see other signs? Can you blame me for being unsure about what to do when there literally were no other bad character signs? I'm not naive...I've dated a lot, and aside from this thing (which is big I know), he has been a complete gentleman, he has respected me, supported my ambitions, been trustworthy and has continued to show signs of interest and caring without playing and silly games. Yes he made a really stupid immature mistake...but I believe (based on what I have experienced in the past) that he TRULY is sorry. He owned up to everything, and didn't get defensive, or mean, or upset with me, or just ignore me, or try to make me to blame. He accepted that he had made a stupid mistake and apologized. I don't know who y'all have been dating....but for me, that is a HUGE change from what I am used to. I have a lot of respect for people who can accept responsibility for their actions.
FitChick Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Right now if I'm him, I'm thinking I'm a huge ****ing dick and need to never do this again, but if THIS is enough to break up over, I'm glad this came up now, because when real adversity hits later on, who knows how you'd react. I totally agree. If the OP likes this guy, gets along with him in every other respect, it's worth another try. We all know hard it is to even find someone worth dating in the first place. The OP wasn't engaged nor dating this guy for a year, which would make a difference. Someone who will bail out at any bump in the road is not someone I'd want to be with long term. I'd want someone who is willing to work things out because The Relationship was more important than either individual. Of course, there must be an understanding that a second mistake would not be tolerated!
Imajerk17 Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 If he truly owned up to his mistakes and apologized, AND if he has taken his profile down, then I say he gets one more chance for good behavior, if you really want to give him that chance. You played the "sticking up for myself" card. I'm wondering if you moved too quickly though. You became exclusive after 2 weeks and now a few months later one of you might be wondering if that is the right choice. Something to consider...
EnigmaticClarity Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 (edited) Hindsight is 20/20. Lots of little things often add up to be big things. People come on forums like this to ask questions of people who have already been through similar situations. People that have dealt with these types of things know to see this as a sign. She's getting the answers she sought. Oh yea, lots of little things would form a pattern that is unmistakable, but that's not what we have here. We have one moderate thing. No pattern is visible unless you project a "most men are pigs, so this is just the beginning" pattern onto this event. Mistake...but apparently a common one based upon the burnout "OMG HE'S A DICK DUMP HIM" advice I'm seeing. This early on in a relationship if something is eating at you that bad ending it is probably for the best, wouldn't you agree? I generally agree that it probably is best for them both if she splits up if she feels so strongly about this event, but I don't really understand why she's reacting based upon this one situation, so I disagree from the perspective that she's likely to face much harder things in the future than this that she'll be forced to react more moderately to. Edited January 13, 2012 by EnigmaticClarity
ditzchic Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 For those of you who have gone through this...I want to ask you HONESTLY...when you ended it...didn't you look back and see other signs? Can you blame me for being unsure about what to do when there literally were no other bad character signs? I'm not naive...I've dated a lot, and aside from this thing (which is big I know), he has been a complete gentleman, he has respected me, supported my ambitions, been trustworthy and has continued to show signs of interest and caring without playing and silly games. Yes he made a really stupid immature mistake...but I believe (based on what I have experienced in the past) that he TRULY is sorry. He owned up to everything, and didn't get defensive, or mean, or upset with me, or just ignore me, or try to make me to blame. He accepted that he had made a stupid mistake and apologized. I don't know who y'all have been dating....but for me, that is a HUGE change from what I am used to. I have a lot of respect for people who can accept responsibility for their actions. Sing, let me tell you a little story. I've been where you are. I met a guy online who, ironically, was a former fatty as well who was just coming into his own on the dating scene. He was very insecure and needy but so sweet and attentive and just thought the world of me. He also had really unattractive pics of himself posted on his profile (which I'm taking now as it's own sign of insecurity). We hit it off great and started dating seriously. He did all the pursuing all the pushing for exclusivity. He just seemed so into me. Then he started pushing boundaries. It started out small at first just little pokes. But through all of that still backed up enough that I felt ok with it. Then he started to get a little more bold about it. When I called him out the first time there were insane amounts of apologizing even begging to not leave him. He wanted me and only me and would never try and hurt or manipulate me ever again blah blah blah. Then came the white lies, then the big lies. And when called out on him he would apologize but point out that he was just so scared and used to girls that check up on his stories that he felt he had to lie (another big red flag, apparently he made up lots of stories for other girls as well). Then the apologies became less and less frequent to the point where I felt like a doormat and just didn't even care anymore. I checked out. He checked out. A big fiery crash ensued. I'm not saying definitively if you should dump him or not. Different people are worth different amounts of bull**** and it's up to you to decide how much he is worth. But I will leave you with this. This type of behavior isn't usually just a fluke type of thing. This behavior is generally characteristic of a certain personality type. If you think he is worth it, ok. But realize that this could be the thing you look back on after the crash and say 'Hawt damn, I should have realized from that very second who he was and I could have saved myself a world of hurt.'. I hope everything works out in the best way for you.
shayla Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I'm one of those that advised that this was the beginning of a pattern of passive agressive manipulation, and I can assure you, I know that all men aren't pigs. I know that all men aren't the way my ex was....I had never been treated like that in my entire life, that is one reason I was so stunned over the end of our relationship. I am seeing someone now that is everything my ex was not. He is honest. Respectful. He takes full responsibility for his issues and I do the same. Good luck with your decision. I'm sure you will do what is right for you.
2sunny Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Decide for yourself! You know what you will or won't tolerate... That being said - you can only say to yourself "now I know what he's capable of" - as long as you ALLOW certain things for yourself... It's up to you. ;-)
azsinglegal Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 Sing, let me tell you a little story. I've been where you are. I met a guy online who, ironically, was a former fatty as well who was just coming into his own on the dating scene. He was very insecure and needy but so sweet and attentive and just thought the world of me. He also had really unattractive pics of himself posted on his profile (which I'm taking now as it's own sign of insecurity). We hit it off great and started dating seriously. He did all the pursuing all the pushing for exclusivity. He just seemed so into me. Then he started pushing boundaries. It started out small at first just little pokes. But through all of that still backed up enough that I felt ok with it. Then he started to get a little more bold about it. When I called him out the first time there were insane amounts of apologizing even begging to not leave him. He wanted me and only me and would never try and hurt or manipulate me ever again blah blah blah. Then came the white lies, then the big lies. And when called out on him he would apologize but point out that he was just so scared and used to girls that check up on his stories that he felt he had to lie (another big red flag, apparently he made up lots of stories for other girls as well). Then the apologies became less and less frequent to the point where I felt like a doormat and just didn't even care anymore. I checked out. He checked out. A big fiery crash ensued. I'm not saying definitively if you should dump him or not. Different people are worth different amounts of bull**** and it's up to you to decide how much he is worth. But I will leave you with this. This type of behavior isn't usually just a fluke type of thing. This behavior is generally characteristic of a certain personality type. If you think he is worth it, ok. But realize that this could be the thing you look back on after the crash and say 'Hawt damn, I should have realized from that very second who he was and I could have saved myself a world of hurt.'. I hope everything works out in the best way for you. ^^ This. I dated a guy who kept a bunch of dating profiles on sites and I had no idea (we didn't meet that way). His nickname was "lothario" which means womanizer (I found out months later). He told me he had changed. Um, no he didn't change. He was still that same guy running around, chasing women and trying to stick his dick in anything that spread their legs. Then laying next to me, living in my house, saying he loved ME and chatting it up with several other woman at the same time. This is probably an extreme case - however. Leopards don't change their spots. People don't change. This guy is shopping. I simply don't understand how you can't see that.
Author SingVoice Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 I'm wondering if you moved too quickly though. You became exclusive after 2 weeks and now a few months later one of you might be wondering if that is the right choice. Something to consider... It wasn't that we moved too fast. He said from the beginning that he isn't the type to multi-date...and at that time I wasn't really talking to anyone else online either. May sound weird...but it was more like "we aren't going to put energy into meeting other people because we want to see what will happen with this." We weren't in an "official relationship" though. That came later.
Author SingVoice Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 Of course, there must be an understanding that a second mistake would not be tolerated! I told him that last night.
Author SingVoice Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 I generally agree that it probably is best for them both if she splits up if she feels so strongly about this event, but I don't really understand why she's reacting based upon this one situation, so I disagree from the perspective that she's likely to face much harder things in the future than this that she'll be forced to react more moderately to. I am a sane person and understand that sometimes an initial reaction isn't always the best to go off of. When it first happened, believe me, I was DONE. But now that I am looking at the bigger picture, I'm seeing things clearer. Like I said before, it was such a shock because this ISN'T a pattern for him. I'm actually really impressed with the way he has handled the situation. And I'll admit, in the past I have allowed myself to be a doormat (we all have). So I wanted to think things through and decide if this was "doormat" or if it was "ok we can work through this."
ditzchic Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I told him that last night. YOU NEVER TELL THEM THAT!!!! That's when they decide to lie about all possible "mistakes" just in case it might piss you off.
Author SingVoice Posted January 13, 2012 Author Posted January 13, 2012 But I will leave you with this. This type of behavior isn't usually just a fluke type of thing. This behavior is generally characteristic of a certain personality type. If you think he is worth it, ok. But realize that this could be the thing you look back on after the crash and say 'Hawt damn, I should have realized from that very second who he was and I could have saved myself a world of hurt.'. I hope everything works out in the best way for you. Wow. Thanks for that. Yeah I have been in situations with boundary pushers before as well. I am feeling now more like because this was a first offense, I owe it to myself to find out if this will be a pattern. I did care about him, and like I said, aside from this one event, there were no other red flags or even yellow flags. If anything happens again, then I'll know, and I can come back here and y'all can tell me "I told ya so!!!" Haha. He's somewhat insecure, yes, but he is not needy. He is not clingy or anything like that. One of the reasons I liked him in the beginning is because he is HOT, successful, funny, (really good on paper) but that he does have insecurities. A lot of times when you meet guys who "have it all" they are dicks because they CAN be. I liked that he was humble.
2sunny Posted January 13, 2012 Posted January 13, 2012 I told him that last night. So what's to "decide?" with this statement you have given him the clear indication that you will be back with him. No one states what the "second chance" will or won't look like unless they plan to go back. Stop playing games with him. Just tell him that you plan to go back - you don't like what he did - but it's not as bad as what some of your other guys have pulled- so you're willing to overlook it - meanwhile you will hold it against him though, in the future. You know he has an abusive undertone - albeit emotional abuse - keep an eye out for his passive aggressive tendency - its a sneaky one.
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