Question 4 the betrayed spouse

[SouthernSunshine]

Were there any warning signs, red flags you may have overlooked or even noticed but brushed aside? What was the behavior of your cheating spouse? Did they come home smelling funny, or shower you with gifts? Did they lose interest in sex, or pull new sexual tricks from their sleeves?

[SoMovinOn]

Yes... there were tons of them. I knew when she was on the prowl, I knew when she had hooked up with someone... I knew a lot of things, and I let her know I knew, tried to convince her she was making mistakes, doing the wrong thing.

 

In spite of what I knew, when I looked for evidence, I didn't find anything sufficient to be "proof". The other difficulty was there was a *lot* of time during which she was doing nothing. She'd hook up with a guy once, then there'd be nothing for a couple of months. If I was looking, I'd need to have look at exactly the right moment to see anything.

 

None of the things I saw were the types of things you usually find on a list of possible clues your spouse is cheating. It was all just us being together a long time, me knowing her well... subtle things like they *way* she said something.

 

As an example, her first time, when we went to bed that night, she turned to me and said "I love you" ... and I could hear the guilt to the point where my though was to respond "Yeah? Who did you ****?"

[seibert253]

Hindsight being 20/20, there were signs all over the place. I was too blind or in denial to really realize what was going on.

 

The classics:

• Increased texting
  
• Secrecy with her phone
  
• Increased computer usage, (FWW didn't even know how to turn the computer on, next thing I know she's emailing and FBing all the time)
  
• Running "errands" and being gone hours
  
• Spending more time "out with her friends"
  
• Increased hostility toward me, (all the world's ills were my fault)
  
• Sex dropped to nothing
  

Once my buddy convinced me to pull her phone records and install a keylogger, then reality hit me like a 12lb sledge.

 

The signs are usually always there, we just choose to ignore them.

[PegNosePete]

Same as seibert, hindsight is 20/20. Looking back I can identify all the same red flags that he mentioned but at the time I didn't realize it.

 

I will not get fooled twice.

[beenburned]

My H's personality changed completely when he was cheating.

 

He had always been a loving family man that was very involved in the our daily lives.

 

All of a sudden we couldn't do anything right. We walked on eggshells so not to set him off.

 

He never had time for any family outings, pictures, school events, or kids sports.

 

Our sex life that had always been very good and frequent, went to almost nothing. I begged and begged him to tell me what the problem was. I always got nothing.

[SouthernSunshine]

As an example, her first time, when we went to bed that night, she turned to me and said "I love you" ... and I could hear the guilt to the point where my though was to respond "Yeah? Who did you ****?

 

Dang...

 

 

 

Increased texting

Secrecy with her phone

Increased computer usage, (FWW didn't even know how to turn the computer on, next thing I know she's emailing and FBing all the time)

Running "errands" and being gone hours

Spending more time "out with her friends"

Increased hostility toward me, (all the world's ills were my fault)

Sex dropped to nothing

 

 

Thanks. Good input!

 

My H's personality changed completely when he was cheating.

 

He had always been a loving family man that was very involved in the our daily lives.

 

All of a sudden we couldn't do anything right. We walked on eggshells so not to set him off.

 

He never had time for any family outings, pictures, school events, or kids sports.

 

Our sex life that had always been very good and frequent, went to almost nothing. I begged and begged him to tell me what the problem was. I always got nothing.

 

I'm sorry for the pain you, and your children experienced. Was his negative behavior constant? Or would he be a family man for a few days then turn into someone else for a few days?

[YellowShark]

The classics:

• Increased texting
  
• Secrecy with her phone
  
• Increased computer usage
  

 

The BIG 3.

 

If their phone doesn't leave their side or they have suddenly put a password lock on it, rest assured there is something on it they don't want you to see. People with nothing to hide... hide nothing. And if they are on the computer at times they never used to be... or waaaay more than normal, rest assured there is something going on there too.

 

Any of these signs are signals to you.

[beenburned]

SS,

It was constant during the years he was cheating. He had 3 short term flings with different women in about a 5 year period.(in the early years of our marriage)

 

Looking back with hindsight, I think he felt a lot of responsibilities on his shoulders, and wished he was single and carefree again.

 

We married young, had kids soon after, and bought a new house.

 

One reason it took me so long to catch him was that all of the affairs took place during normal working hours. No missing time, money, or phone calls.

His co-workers were also cheating on their wives. When they got caught, their wives called me and told me what all they had been doing.

[Steen719]

 

 

• Increased texting
  
• Secrecy with her phone
  
• Increased computer usage,
  
• Increased hostility toward me, (all the world's ills were my fault)
  

Some additional ones for me were:

 

• Facebook for 12 hours a day
  
• Ignoring me all of the time
  
• Eating the dinners I cooked in front of the computer in the other room
  
• Anger that I checked the phone records
  
• Telling me that he felt like he had been in prison for years
  
• I love you, but I am not in love with you speech
  

These were all done while I was working very hard to keep us out of debt after his liver transplant. I had cared for him, taken care of everything for 2 years and this POS repaid me with infidelity. What a piece of work. I should have left him after his first affair many years ago. I can't go back, but if I had anything to do over, that would be it. His lips move and he lies and as someone said on some thread somewhere "If you put lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig". Aye, yi, yi

[SouthernSunshine]

One reason it took me so long to catch him was that all of the affairs took place during normal working hours.

 

Yes, work related cheating is more difficult to catch! They have their bases covered.

 

Facebook for 12 hours a day

Ignoring me all of the time

Eating the dinners I cooked in front of the computer in the other room

Anger that I checked the phone records

Telling me that he felt like he had been in prison for years

I love you, but I am not in love with you speech

 

These were all done while I was working very hard to keep us out of debt after his liver transplant. I had cared for him, taken care of everything for 2 years and this POS repaid me with infidelity. What a piece of work. I should have left him after his first affair many years ago. I can't go back, but if I had anything to do over, that would be it. His lips move and he lies and as someone said on some thread somewhere "If you put lipstick on a pig, it is still a pig". Aye, yi, yi

 

I am terribly sorry to hear that (bolded)... wow! It's unfathomable how cold some people can be. The fact that he cheated before is scary. You think the cheater learned from the wrong choices he made by cheating... but is that how they really feel, or what they're trying to get you to buy? Blech

[g450]

Yep, all of the above here as well.

 

In fact Im not sure there was a PA as I could only confirm an EA she was having when I found some emails she sent him. And that was after she divorced me. Took me that long to find evidence.

 

Reading this thread now makes me wonder if she had a PA way before the divorce though as I remember a few years prior, she started showing me all these new moves in the bedroom. I couldnt help but wonder where she learned them from. I chalked it up as her being more experimental in bed due to us being older now and more mature. She was 50. She was going through menapause (sp?) at the time and was a horndog for a short period. I was in heaven for about four months. After that the sex dropped back down to once a month IF I was lucky and IF I begged for it. Not an attractive way to live as a man.

 

In the end trust your gut. I mean that literally. Your gut will have a feeling that something isnt right. It's natures defense mechanism and most people push it aside and dismiss it as I did. I should have listened better to my own intuition.

[DarkPrince]

Tons of red flags. I had to convince myself that she wasnt cheating becuase I did not want to face that reality.

She might as well have screwed him right in front of me, and I would have rationalized it away because I refused to admit that she would cheat on me, and I wasnt ready to accept it, so I ignored it. I blocked it out, and rationalized every red flag I saw.

They (my wife and her lover) saw this as me either being grossly naive, or a coward. Either way they took great pleasure in seeing how far they could push the envelope before Id say something.

I finally did one night when I was drunk, and it all ended just like that.

Now that I realized it was so easy to say something, I live with tremendous regret that I did not accept reality and end it at the first red flag, which was way before it turned sexual.

I am still with my wife, and many years have passed. I am a changed man, and have went to the other end of the spectrum when it comes to other men. I am very over protective, and no man in her life feels at ease when talking to her becuase of me. The strange thing is my wife likes this behavior in me.

Whenever I see her laughing with some guy at the gym, I come up and introduce myself and give him the 'get lost' mssg without words. Then in the car on the way home I chastise her about talking to men like that because of what happened years ago. We always end up having the hottest sex for the next few days. I havent quite figured that one out yet.

Maybe she just needed an over protective guy all along. ??? sorry I got a little off topic

[Steen719]

 

I am terribly sorry to hear that (bolded)... wow! It's unfathomable how cold some people can be. The fact that he cheated before is scary. You think the cheater learned from the wrong choices he made by cheating... but is that how they really feel, or what they're trying to get you to buy? Blech

 

Yes, Southern Sunshine, as I said, he is a POS. You know, I know that some people on here manage to make their marriage work, but when my XH had his first affair (also an old gf), my decision was to leave the marriage. I was really naive and had no idea of what was going on until the attorney asked me where the OW was. I could not believe it. I thought we were happy, good sex life, good work, good life. The fact that we were not unhappy bothered me because I felt in my gut that this man had the capability of doing this in good times and what would happen in those dark times? I told him to leave & I meant it. He cried, asked me please to stay with him, he was sorry, wanted our family together, blah, blah, blah. Those who knew me well were shocked I stayed. I was too. I always felt that I loved my son more than I hated what he had done to me. I believe I had good instincts and I went against them. I know people make mistakes, but in my case, I knew what he was capable of and convinced myself otherwise. Now, if he was unhappy with our marriage last year (did not seem to be until the newest..well not the newest old gf, but the second old gf.as he is now dating a third old gf (while still pining for the 2nd old gf, as I guess my discovery put the kibosh on that), then IMO, he could have told me before I put myself in horrible debt, cared for his sorry a** and will soon be in bankruptcy. He wonders..just asked me..why I don't want to see him anymore when I move in February. Really! Clueless idiot.

 

Anyway, this time around, I knew pretty soon what was going on since I had been through it before with him. I don't think I will ever trust another man. The woman I am renting from (soon) told me today her H cheated on her after 20 years and left her 3 months after her 15 year old son died (illness), her sister's H cheated on her and her neighbor who was married for 33 years (happily) found out after her husband started being hostile toward her, that he was cheating and she divorced him. I have very little faith in marriage.

[SidLyon]

Were there any warning signs, red flags you may have overlooked or even noticed but brushed aside? What was the behavior of your cheating spouse? Did they come home smelling funny, or shower you with gifts? Did they lose interest in sex, or pull new sexual tricks from their sleeves?

 

I had none of the usual signs that others have mentioned.

 

My fWH didn't have a mobile/cell phone and was not on Facebook or anything like that. He never used the fixed-line home phone. We both used the computer a lot so there was no change there, although he did communicate with the OW using a "secret" hotmail account.

 

Other contact was through their work's e-mail system.

 

The affair was conducted 99% at lunchtime when I wouldn't normally see him. There were no increased costs as they came to my house while I was at work. With hindsight there would have been a high risk that either I or someone else caught them at home during lunchtime but it seems nobody ever noticed.

 

The only thing that might have been clues were that our bathroom shelf would sometimes have water(?) on it when I got home from work. Another time I found an unfamiliar key which he said was to his work but was actually to a post office box. On one other occasion I discovered he'd lied about his reason for taking the car to work on a particular day when he usually caught the bus. He explained it and I accepted it not realising that the real reason he took the car was so he could easily get home quickly during his lunch time. He also had a secret bank account ,so on the odd occasion he did spend money on her I didn't notice. This was using funds from before we were married so I never even knew.

 

Our sex life remained unchanged but he was quite cold and distant which I never understood but now realise it was due to him investing all his emotional energy in the OW.

 

Apart form the riskiness in coming to our home and also having sex at work, he covered/disguised his tracks very well. Considering it was years of infidelity it's amazing that I only caught him in lies a couple of times and they were easily explained away.

 

I look back at this time in our lives and wonder what I could have done differently. I was not deliberately turning a blind eye, but genuinely had so few clues and none pointed directly at cheating. In my mind I replay a fictional scenario in which I come home early from work and catch them, but it never actually happened.

 

Despite all this I now have a heightened awareness of him and expect I would notice the emotional coldness very quickly if it happens again.

 

We are now reconciled 3.5 years after d-day.

[SoMovinOn]

I look back at this time in our lives and wonder what I could have done differently. I was not deliberately turning a blind eye, but genuinely had so few clues and none pointed directly at cheating. In my mind I replay a fictional scenario in which I come home early from work and catch them, but it never actually happened.

 

That would be extremely difficult to catch. One of the only risks they took was in coming to your house. Had they spent their lunch time elsewhere, you'd have pretty much no possible clues at all.

 

One of my W's A's was the exact opposite, and as difficult to detect. She had an A for a couple of months with my best friend. The three of us always spent time together. He was always at our house, we were always at his house. The three of us spent most of our evenings and weekends together. Wanting to leave as soon as I got home, I'd often call him (or have my W call him) to tell him to be at the house when I got there. That made it easy enough for him to be here during the day while I was at work.

 

They pretty much did almost everything right in front of me - because it was normal for us.

[Breezy Trousers]

I had none of the usual signs that others have mentioned.

 

My fWH didn't have a mobile/cell phone and was not on Facebook or anything like that. He never used the fixed-line home phone. We both used the computer a lot so there was no change there, although he did communicate with the OW using a "secret" hotmail account.

 

Other contact was through their work's e-mail system.

 

The affair was conducted 99% at lunchtime when I wouldn't normally see him. There were no increased costs as they came to my house while I was at work. With hindsight there would have been a high risk that either I or someone else caught them at home during lunchtime but it seems nobody ever noticed.

 

The only thing that might have been clues were that our bathroom shelf would sometimes have water(?) on it when I got home from work. Another time I found an unfamiliar key which he said was to his work but was actually to a post office box. On one other occasion I discovered he'd lied about his reason for taking the car to work on a particular day when he usually caught the bus. He explained it and I accepted it not realising that the real reason he took the car was so he could easily get home quickly during his lunch time. He also had a secret bank account ,so on the odd occasion he did spend money on her I didn't notice. This was using funds from before we were married so I never even knew.

 

Our sex life remained unchanged but he was quite cold and distant which I never understood but now realise it was due to him investing all his emotional energy in the OW.

 

Apart form the riskiness in coming to our home and also having sex at work, he covered/disguised his tracks very well. Considering it was years of infidelity it's amazing that I only caught him in lies a couple of times and they were easily explained away.

 

I look back at this time in our lives and wonder what I could have done differently. I was not deliberately turning a blind eye, but genuinely had so few clues and none pointed directly at cheating. In my mind I replay a fictional scenario in which I come home early from work and catch them, but it never actually happened.

 

Despite all this I now have a heightened awareness of him and expect I would notice the emotional coldness very quickly if it happens again.

 

We are now reconciled 3.5 years after d-day.

 

DH's affair lasted about two months in 2001.

 

I, too, only experienced an ABRUPTLY sudden and noticeable coldness. DH also wasn't in the mood to have sex, which I attributed to him being mad at me for some reason but not being able to express why. At one point, over brunch, DH casually broached the possibility of divorce, shocking me into (very rare, not to mention public) tears. He quickly backpedaled and joked it away.

 

Otherwise, there were no signs. I never suspected an affair. I thought DH was mad at me for two months, couldn't figure it out, and was checking out marriage books from the library to figure out how to get our marriage back to normal again. When D-Day arrived, I was only too happy to throw him to his OW. He thew her under the bus.

 

People still tell me, "You must have KNOWN." (It's interesting that some outsiders assume they have a far better assessment of my experience, my feelings and my thoughts than I do. ) ... But, no. I didn't know. I have no problem admitting my shortcomings, but, in this instance, I honestly didn't see this coming and didn't suspect anything. I trusted my husband because he has always been good and kind toward me throughout our long marriage, short of those two dark months. I now see that these people who accuse BS's of "knowing" are, in fact, comforting themselves with the notion, "I'll know -- so I'll be in control."

 

I realize this is no small comfort, but trust me: People can be completely blindsided by infidelity. I was. Infidelity has taught me that we can NEVER know the truth about people -- anyone! As Byron Katie teaches, we can only know our story about people .... It doesn't matter how intelligent or saavy you are, either. My longtime friends think I'm extremely intuitive -- even psychic -- about people. That's why they were shocked that the two-month affair didn't pop up on my radar. It didn't. I was trusting and naive in ways I'm not anymore. Infidelity has been one of my greatest life teachers.

 

Researchers say there is such a thing as hindsight bias. We look back and say, "I should have known! See? There it was! I must have been in denial!" They say that's not necessarily true. Just because you can see something very clearly in hindsight, doesn't mean you would have seen it at all at the time .... Who isn't a genius in hindsight?

[beenburned]

steen,

You mentioned all of your H's affairs were with old girlfriends. Did he have contact with them in his daily life, or did he look them up on the internet?

 

How many old girlfriends did he have?

[Steen719]

steen,

You mentioned all of your H's affairs were with old girlfriends. Did he have contact with them in his daily life, or did he look them up on the internet?

 

How many old girlfriends did he have?

 

Beenburned,

His first affair (to my knowledge) was with an old girlfriend that he "saw" at a family get-together her brother gave in the city we live. She lived (s) in their hometown, about 4 hours from here and was down to see him. I don't remember how he got invited to the family thing...maybe he worked with the brother at the hospital. I did not know who she was and that she would be there..he just said it was the brother. We bought a house, moved in July 1st and by the end of July, he was wanting to sell the house and move to hometown. This was when I was oblivious.

 

The second one, he found on FB and off they went. She is also from hometown and they met up at least once, but professed love for each other and they are still in touch with each other, but she is not leaving her husband and is worried that I will tell her husband. He has it bad for her.

 

The one he is seeing now is also from the hometown and they started talking on FB as well.

 

I don't know how many old gfs there are, but evidently, there are many, many. He also tried to hook up with a 34 year old who has 3 kids..youngest is 9 (he is almost 58), but she got smart and quit talking to him online.

 

He also friends friends of friends on FB and then tries to work something up. UGH He also (I think) is planning to move back to hometown (sounds like it might help his love life). Bad for his relationship with his son, but he told me last night that "he might not have much of a relationship with XXXX, but he couldn't do anything about that and it would just have to be that way". He is a selfish man, and I use the word man in the loosest sense of the word and only because he has a ...well...you know. 23 days and I can leave.

[beenburned]

BT,

Your post triggered a long buried memory.

 

During H's cheating years, he always deliberately provoked arguments over small unimportant things, then would say "If you feel that way I guess we should just get a divorce". It hurt me deeply as I was always the same person he loved enough to marry. I, like others here, was blaming myself for his unhappiness. I also checked out many books on fixing marital problems.

 

Looking back with hindsight, it was because he didn't want to appear to anyone(me/kids/parents/friends/etc) as being the BAD GUY if he did decide to divorce me.This was all before our d-day, and I couldn't understand why he had a completely changed personality.

 

Sh**, isn't it bad enough to cheat on your spouse without adding insult to injury, by not even owning the pile of sh** they personally created!

 

Sorry for the small vent.

[beenburned]

Steen,

Wishing you the best as you start a new and happy life without the STB XH.

[Steen719]

Steen,

Wishing you the best as you start a new and happy life without the STB XH.

 

Thank you, BB. He is an XH (Oct. 2011) and I do not recommend living with an X..not good for the psyche.

[Breezy Trousers]

BT,

Your post triggered a long buried memory.

 

During H's cheating years, he always deliberately provoked arguments over small unimportant things, then would say "If you feel that way I guess we should just get a divorce". It hurt me deeply as I was always the same person he loved enough to marry. I, like others here, was blaming myself for his unhappiness. I also checked out many books on fixing marital problems.

 

Looking back with hindsight, it was because he didn't want to appear to anyone(me/kids/parents/friends/etc) as being the BAD GUY if he did decide to divorce me.This was all before our d-day, and I couldn't understand why he had a completely changed personality.

 

Sh**, isn't it bad enough to cheat on your spouse without adding insult to injury, by not even owning the pile of sh** they personally created!

 

Sorry for the small vent.

 

Vent understood! Totally understand and agree, BB! ... A lot of it is projection, too. WS feels guilty but denies it and assigns the guilt/horns to the betrayed spouse and assigns halos to themselves and their "innocent" affair partners. (Spark pointed it out.)

[g450]

Yes, Southern Sunshine, as I said, he is a POS. You know, I know that some people on here manage to make their marriage work, but when my XH had his first affair (also an old gf), my decision was to leave the marriage. I was really naive and had no idea of what was going on until the attorney asked me where the OW was. I could not believe it. I thought we were happy, good sex life, good work, good life. The fact that we were not unhappy bothered me because I felt in my gut that this man had the capability of doing this in good times and what would happen in those dark times? I told him to leave & I meant it. He cried, asked me please to stay with him, he was sorry, wanted our family together, blah, blah, blah. Those who knew me well were shocked I stayed. I was too. I always felt that I loved my son more than I hated what he had done to me. I believe I had good instincts and I went against them. I know people make mistakes, but in my case, I knew what he was capable of and convinced myself otherwise. Now, if he was unhappy with our marriage last year (did not seem to be until the newest..well not the newest old gf, but the second old gf.as he is now dating a third old gf (while still pining for the 2nd old gf, as I guess my discovery put the kibosh on that), then IMO, he could have told me before I put myself in horrible debt, cared for his sorry a** and will soon be in bankruptcy. He wonders..just asked me..why I don't want to see him anymore when I move in February. Really! Clueless idiot.

 

Anyway, this time around, I knew pretty soon what was going on since I had been through it before with him. I don't think I will ever trust another man. The woman I am renting from (soon) told me today her H cheated on her after 20 years and left her 3 months after her 15 year old son died (illness), her sister's H cheated on her and her neighbor who was married for 33 years (happily) found out after her husband started being hostile toward her, that he was cheating and she divorced him. I have very little faith in marriage.

 

That is so sad to hear. But you should have faith in marriage. I still do. You just had faith in the wrong man. Simple as that. Dont blame the institute of marriage. It's the weak among us that do not respect it's boundries.

[g450]

Vent understood! Totally understand and agree, BB! ... A lot of it is projection, too. WS feels guilty but denies it and assigns the guilt/horns to the betrayed spouse and assigns halos to themselves and their "innocent" affair partners. (Spark pointed it out.)

 

Yep, reading this thread was a bit painful for me as well. Man I was nieve and also probably in denial. You never suspect somebody you have been with for 20+ years would ever do that to you so you walk around with blinders on.

 

Sadly this has caused some friction in my current relationship as I am on the opposite side of being paranoid now with my current girl. But not without reason, there is a history with her I am reminded of constantly.

 

One thing is for certain, I will NEVER be so blind ever again. I dont like living like that but getting my heart broken twice will make you that way.

 

Life makes you that way sometimes. But thankfully I keep my jealosy and insecurity in check very well. It does however have it's uses and benefits.

I pray to never have that feeling in my gut ever again. But if that familiar and sickening feeling ever comes again, I will know what to do.

[YellowShark]

 

The second one, he found on FB and off they went.

 

The one he is seeing now is also from the hometown and they started talking on FB as well.

 

He also friends friends of friends on FB and then tries to work something up.

 

Yup. Good old Facebook. The relationship killer. You can dig up old flames, connect with them, chat with them, scheme with them, and creep through their pictures... all from the comfort of your couch at home... even while your partner sits oblivious next to you watching TV.

 

ETA

 

Facebook is a godsend for cheaters. No more leg work or effort other than a few quick mouse clicks.

Edited January 15, 2012 by YellowShark