tigressA Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 You meet someone, you like them though there are things about them that bother you, and you have hopes/expectations/desires for them changing to what you would like them to be. This can lead to criticizing your partner fairly often, masked as you wanting them to realize their 'full potential', though they are generally happy with how their life is. Or You meet someone, you like them, and while there are things about them that you aren't a fan of, you accept them for who they are and you don't harbor any hopes, expectations, or desires for change. This doesn't mean you put up with BS thrown your way, of course--you're accepting, but not a pushover. Which of these do you identify with more? Do you think one is better than the other? Do you think you could be in a happy relationship with someone who shares the opposite viewpoint? Discuss. FTR, I am of the latter view, my BF is of the former.
Pizzaman81 Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 tigress tigress... you cannot change people. You have to either a) Overlook the negative quality, think to yourself, can you live with this flaw in your SO b) Look elsewhere People ONLY change if THEY believe it to be right. Forcing changes never last
Author tigressA Posted January 10, 2012 Author Posted January 10, 2012 tigress tigress... you cannot change people. You have to either a) Overlook the negative quality, think to yourself, can you live with this flaw in your SO b) Look elsewhere People ONLY change if THEY believe it to be right. Forcing changes never last Oh I know. I totally agree with you. That's the essence of the second viewpoint in my post, which is what I align myself with. And I don't mean this to be a dissection of my relationship. I just shared what my case is because with some of these threads people don't share if you don't share what your view is in the OP.
Pizzaman81 Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Oh I know. I totally agree with you. That's the essence of the second viewpoint in my post, which is what I align myself with. And I don't mean this to be a dissection of my relationship. I just shared what my case is because with some of these threads people don't share if you don't share what your view is in the OP. I should really read and understand your thread before replying yes I agree, people should do option B. Unless it is extremely unbearable then you two are probably not compatible
Star Gazer Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 You meet someone, you like them, and while there are things about them that you aren't a fan of, you accept them for who they are and you don't harbor any hopes, expectations, or desires for change. This doesn't mean you put up with BS thrown your way, of course--you're accepting, but not a pushover. That's how I handle it....NOW. When I was younger, I was definitely someone who looked at "potential" rather than what "is" (and likely won't ever change). FTR, I am of the latter view, my BF is of the former. This surprises me, based on what I've read in all your threads.
betterdeal Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 The way you phrased the two options is (understandably) biased. How about a third one, i.e. you like each other and you share your feelings, and if there are points of conflict you discuss them, see what you can both compromise on, and work together towards a resolution, being careful to contain such interactions to manageable sessions of, say, 15 minutes so as not to turn the relationship into one long dreary "Serious Conversation". You can let people know how you'd like them to change.
soulm8 Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 You meet someone, you like them, and while there are things about them that you aren't a fan of, you accept them for who they are and you don't harbor any hopes, expectations, or desires for change. This doesn't mean you put up with BS thrown your way, of course--you're accepting, but not a pushover. I've always been like that... and I'm now just realizing that life is too short to be so accepting of others. For some reason, I thought this was more the "norm" but it's not based on my history. I believe it's possible to have a happy relationship with someone opposite as long as you can openly communicate through the differences to an understanding -- however, I haven't experienced it.
Eternal Sunshine Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 I am the latter and my bf is the former. Major source of conflict. Example: when he met me he wanted to change my weight, my hair color, how ambitious I am and even how much sleep I need. He made subtle and no so subtle comments on all of the above CONSTANTLY. Lately he even criticizes me on the way I turn pages in a book. Apparently, turning them by putting your finger in the middle is MUCH better than any other way. Otherwise, I risk destroying the book by ripping a page. (note: I have been reading books for 20+ years and have never damaged a page). I also would have preferred that his body is more toned and tighter, but whenever he expressed any worries, I was quick to reassure him that I find him cute and sexy. Whenever I expressed any worries (and often when I didn't), he would always tell me that I need to lose weight (and a lot more than what is really healthy).
Star Gazer Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Example: when he met me he wanted to change my weight, my hair color, how ambitious I am and even how much sleep I need. He made subtle and no so subtle comments on all of the above CONSTANTLY. Lately he even criticizes me on the way I turn pages in a book. Apparently, turning them by putting your finger in the middle is MUCH better than any other way. Otherwise, I risk destroying the book by ripping a page. (note: I have been reading books for 20+ years and have never damaged a page). He really is a piece of work. Get. rid. of. this. guy. If you don't, I suspect you'll literally kill him someday out of pent up anger at all of his ridiculous criticism.
Eternal Sunshine Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 He really is a piece of work. Get. rid. of. this. guy. If you don't, I suspect you'll literally kill him someday out of pent up anger at all of his ridiculous criticism. Are you being sarcastic?
Eternal Sunshine Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 BTW the way I peel the potatoes, the way I cut the meat, the way I use the broom, the way I hold my laptop, the way I style the fringe etc etc is ALL wrong Sorry to threadjack Tigressa.
Star Gazer Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Are you being sarcastic? Not at all. I can't imagine being with someone who'd criticize everything about me, right down to how I turn an effing page in a book. It almost angers me just thinking about it. In fact, if he said something like that to me, I'm pretty certain my response would be: "[A 4 second glare] You have 3 options: (1) Get me a Kindle; (2) Shut the f**k up; or, (3) Get a new girlfriend." And then I'd immediately turn the page the way I see fit, perhaps even intentionally ripping a page. That's a somewhat b*tchy way to respond to him, but he's being an ass. But that's really how I'd respond, if I even let it get to that point, which I'm fairly certain I wouldn't.
Star Gazer Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 BTW the way I peel the potatoes, the way I cut the meat, the way I use the broom, the way I hold my laptop, the way I style the fringe etc etc is ALL wrong Sorry to threadjack Tigressa. Are you a pet project, or his PARTNER? How is it that you're not telling him to get lost!?? I'd probably have gotten violent by now! I kid, but... really. How can you even THINK about marrying this guy? Can you imagine his criticism of your body while pregnant? Or how you feed the baby? Or change his/her diapers? Ugh. PUNT. NOW.
Els Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 You meet someone, you like them though there are things about them that bother you, and you have hopes/expectations/desires for them changing to what you would like them to be. This can lead to criticizing your partner fairly often, masked as you wanting them to realize their 'full potential', though they are generally happy with how their life is. Or You meet someone, you like them, and while there are things about them that you aren't a fan of, you accept them for who they are and you don't harbor any hopes, expectations, or desires for change. This doesn't mean you put up with BS thrown your way, of course--you're accepting, but not a pushover. Which of these do you identify with more? Do you think one is better than the other? Do you think you could be in a happy relationship with someone who shares the opposite viewpoint? Discuss. FTR, I am of the latter view, my BF is of the former. I think a balance between the two is often beneficial. I don't think you should change core things about them - their hobbies, mindsets, beliefs, etc. On the other hand, compromise is ALWAYS necessary when you live together, so sometimes it is necessary to request change of small habits. I agree that it's pretty wrong to constantly criticize 'for his/her own good' though. I generally take a laissez-faire approach - he is an adult and capable of managing his own life. It is up to me to be supportive, but not up to me to 'pressure him to achieve his full potential'.
Eternal Sunshine Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Are you a pet project, or his PARTNER? How is it that you're not telling him to get lost!?? I'd probably have gotten violent by now! I kid, but... really. How can you even THINK about marrying this guy? Can you imagine his criticism of your body while pregnant? Or how you feed the baby? Or change his/her diapers? Ugh. PUNT. NOW. I told him off number of times. But more in a general sense like "you criticize me too much and I don't like it". He would then apologize and not do it anymore for a certain period of time and then it would come back. His brother criticizes him constantly and he never speaks back to him so I imagine he is taking it out on me or something. Actually he did say something like "imagine how big you would get when you get pregnant" I feel like a doormat and when I told him so he said that I am as for from a "doormat" as one can get. I imagine that he would do better with a more aggressive/assertive woman who would put him in his place and he would be too afraid to speak up. I even suggested it to him and he started to cry "nooooooo, I want you"
Emilia Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 FTR, I am of the latter view, my BF is of the former. It was exactly the same with me and my last ex and we didn't last because it got annoying pretty fast and I ended it. He would text me about what I was having for dinner out of concern or bigger things like trying to change my whole outlook on life to turn me into someone softer. Ironic since he is a liberal and I'm more conservative, yet he kept trying to change me and I did my best to try to accept him. So much for liberalism, eh? Incidentally, he is from India too just like your boyfriend. Maybe patronising women is a national pass time there (being a paternal society and that)?
A O Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 If you like someone, really like them then you like em warts and all unless they cross some kick-arse no-go boundaries. I don't like smoking but I've had a smoker in my time and it wasn't a case of acceptance, it became a case of I wouldn't want you any other way. The common belief is that you can't change someone - not their core selves anyway. So you may be able to influence minor change, maybe a change of fashion (fashion is minor to us men!), a change of interests - tv, music, art things like that but their core selves no show. So an arsehole will always be an arsehole, a sloppy unreilaibe person will always be so. A vegan a vegan for life and so on. I don't particularly like the word acceptance. Understand compromise, but acceptance - can't say I'm a fan of that term. Dunno why, just is. .
zlatnapolja Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 You meet someone, you like them though there are things about them that bother you, and you have hopes/expectations/desires for them changing to what you would like them to be. This can lead to criticizing your partner fairly often, masked as you wanting them to realize their 'full potential', though they are generally happy with how their life is. Or You meet someone, you like them, and while there are things about them that you aren't a fan of, you accept them for who they are and you don't harbor any hopes, expectations, or desires for change. This doesn't mean you put up with BS thrown your way, of course--you're accepting, but not a pushover. Which of these do you identify with more? Do you think one is better than the other? Do you think you could be in a happy relationship with someone who shares the opposite viewpoint? Discuss. FTR, I am of the latter view, my BF is of the former. The first one is also known as: being hooked on a potential. You'll end up puting all of your energy in trying to change the other person into who you think they could/should be. Of course this is undoable since, noone will change unless they actually want it themselves. It's like a bottomless well, you try to fill the well with water, but because theres no bottom it's never get full. It doesnt work. You'll just end up losing all of your water/energy in the process. I dont really agree with the second either. Idealy you should get to know the person on some levels first, learn about the way they view life, before getting into a serious relationship. If there's ANYTHING that is a dealbreaker for you then, then dont expect this charactaristic to change or dissappear. Thats what I've learned from my experiences..
Emilia Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 I dont really agree with the second either. Idealy you should get to know the person on some levels first, learn about the way they view life, before getting into a serious relationship. If there's ANYTHING that is a dealbreaker for you then, then dont expect this charactaristic to change or dissappear. Thats what I've learned from my experiences.. Ideally yes but it's very different being friends with someone and dating them. People don't try to change their friends because there isn't that sort of emotional investment, they don't show their true colours until in a relationship.
Woggle Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 The latter. Trying to change somebody is an exercise in futility.
Eternal Sunshine Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 My bf didn't try to change/criticize me until we started living together.
Kamille Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 When I look back on my relationships, I tend to fall into the first description. I've improved a lot, but my parents are extremely blunt with each other and in each other's business all the time, so I guess I assumed that's how relationships are done. (Parents were also big proponents of helping me "realize my full potential" as I grew up, criticizing everything, from the way I walked to how I poured drinks, to how I responded to criticism, etc). I've since realized how harmful this can be for relationships (and know the parenting style explains why I suffer from anxiety). I'm not 100% "all-acceptance" in my relationships though. When I'm tired or overwhelmed, I tend to start nitpicking my partners, then realize it's my issue not theirs, feel extremely guilty and apologize. Also, in relationships where I was unhappy, I spent an incredible amount of time over-analyzing my partners and trying to "fix" the relationship by somehow hoping they would change (if only partner did X then I would be happy). I've fortunately come to realize that that is a futile endeavor. But I agree with Betterdeal. There is a third way, which is respectful compromise. Say partner is disorganized: it's ok for me to speak up and seek compromises when it affects me.
zengirl Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 I think I'm closer to betterdeal's third way. It really depends what we mean by changing---in terms of WHO hubby is, I am 100% totally fine and accepting of him. There are, occasionally, some behaviors or attitudes that bum me out, and I say so. And we talk about it. And we fight about it, maybe, briefly. And we both come out happier. That's how good fights work: they find happy resolutions. Conflict that is left alone to fester seems. . . terrifying to me. But so does conflict that is constantly out there and on-going. It needs to be resolved, but not in terms of creating someone in your own image. tigress: It really depends on what the issues are, and circumstances are, whether change can be expected. I think we can expect our partners to prioritize us more and such as we get deeper into a relationship. And we can expect them to accommodate us on certain things. So, it's hard to say in the broad strokes. ES: However, no one should fuss about how you cut a carrot or turn a page in a book or whatnot. If your BF really is like that, why are you with him? Why do some of your posts say how "happy" you are? Does he go back and forth on whether he does it? At any rate, that is a really unhealthy dynamic. As I remember, you have a hyper-critical mother too, so you may feel immune to it, but I'm sure it'll eat away at you.
Eternal Sunshine Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Zengirl: he goes back and forth. My emotions towards him fluctuate according to how much he is criticizing me, how much sex we are having etc. When we have a good run, I'm happy. It never lasts though. Since his parents left, he has been distant. He is physically present but we barely talk and he is less affectionate. In some ways, it would be easier for me if he were to end things.
xxoo Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 There were some fundamental issues that H and I had to work through (meet in the middle) before we combined our lives, money, home. There is a "wearing of the sharp edges" that happens in the first few years of a relationship. Now that the sharp edges have worn down, and there is more "we" than "he and me", acceptance of differences is much easier. . Lately he even criticizes me on the way I turn pages in a book. Apparently, turning them by putting your finger in the middle is MUCH better than any other way. Otherwise, I risk destroying the book by ripping a page. (note: I have been reading books for 20+ years and have never damaged a page). Sorry, but this is insanely funny! You need a witty come-back to respond to this kind of stuff. "Thanks, Martha" in reference to Martha Stewart, or some other annoying perfectionist. It doesn't deserve any more attention than that.
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