singlelife Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Having men think you are too independent? That from being this way you have a hard time keeping a good man? Do you feel misunderstood or what?
soulm8 Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Having men think you are too independent? That from being this way you have a hard time keeping a good man? Do you feel misunderstood or what? I have an issue with this. I was raised to be independent so it comes fairly naturally to me to take care of myself. I appreciate and love it when a man comes into my life and wants to help me but I try very hard not to depend on it. I remain long time friends with one of my first boyfriends, and he's told me that he still loves me from afar (lives in a different province) and loves that I'm such a strong woman. I can only speak for myself, but I'm only "strong" because I have to be... I have no one to share the burden with. I'm also very conscious of how I might come across to men -- I'd be mortified to be mistaken for a damsel in distress or gold digger. I'm just a girl who'd love to share her life with the right boy.
Pizzaman81 Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 I do not have a problem with independent women. In fact, I welcome it. As long as you are compassionate towards others when in the time of need and don't mind others depending on your during tough times, it is fine. I find some independent women think just because they are independent, this means they shouldn't take care of the sick and the weak. BULLL SHIIIIAT
Emilia Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Having men think you are too independent? That from being this way you have a hard time keeping a good man? Do you feel misunderstood or what? To a degree. Englishmen in my experience like independent women so that's good. Men from other cultures struggled with that more, however I see it as their problem, not mine.
Els Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Case of different strokes for different folks. Some men love independent - by independent I assume you mean not needing anyone for anything - women. Some men prefer women that rely on them a bit for certain things, there is something about being 'needed' instead of just 'liked' that strokes the male ego. Just find one you're compatible with.
azsinglegal Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Yes, it's been a huge issue. I don't allow men to do anything for me, take care of me, pay for me, etc. It ends up being seen as I don't need them and therefore, why do they stick around - which they normally don't for very long. I'm working in it, but I've been on my own since I was 18 and went to college so it's tough for me to let my guard down and allow someone to help me even if I need it - I won't EVER ask for help from a man I'm dating. My fear is I'll look like one of those women who wants a man to pay for everything and "take care of her". I might go a wee bit too far in the opposite direction though.
Els Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Yes, it's been a huge issue. I don't allow men to do anything for me, take care of me, pay for me, etc. It ends up being seen as I don't need them and therefore, why do they stick around - which they normally don't for very long. I'm working in it, but I've been on my own since I was 18 and went to college so it's tough for me to let my guard down and allow someone to help me even if I need it - I won't EVER ask for help from a man I'm dating. My fear is I'll look like one of those women who wants a man to pay for everything and "take care of her". I might go a wee bit too far in the opposite direction though. I think there's a huge spectrum between the two. Personally I find that a good balance is to be ABLE to take care of yourself when needed, but to also allow a man to take care of you if he wishes (not require it). Either of the above are easier said than done (it differs by the individual as to which part is the more difficult one), but I think that is what many men like.
azsinglegal Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 I think there's a huge spectrum between the two. Personally I find that a good balance is to be ABLE to take care of yourself when needed, but to also allow a man to take care of you if he wishes (not require it). Either of the above are easier said than done (it differs by the individual as to which part is the more difficult one), but I think that is what many men like. Oh, I agree. I fully admit I've gone to the way other side of the spectrum. I REFUSE to allow a man to buy me ANYTHING, even if it's something I need and can't afford. I'll just go without. When I left my BF last weekend, he gave me $20 for gas as he knows I'm struggling a bit with money - and it took everything I had not to explode on him and refuse. I feel so guilty for taking that money still that I'll find a way to give it back to him. Seriously...over 20 bucks!?! My independent stubborn streak goes way deep. But I've been taking care of myself for SO LONG that to have someone help me is beyond my comprehension. It's as if I'm mentally unable to accept anyone's help even if I'm in trouble and need it. I only rely on myself for anything.
Emilia Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Oh, I agree. I fully admit I've gone to the way other side of the spectrum. I REFUSE to allow a man to buy me ANYTHING, even if it's something I need and can't afford. I'll just go without. When I left my BF last weekend, he gave me $20 for gas as he knows I'm struggling a bit with money - and it took everything I had not to explode on him and refuse. I feel so guilty for taking that money still that I'll find a way to give it back to him. Seriously...over 20 bucks!?! My independent stubborn streak goes way deep. But I've been taking care of myself for SO LONG that to have someone help me is beyond my comprehension. It's as if I'm mentally unable to accept anyone's help even if I'm in trouble and need it. I only rely on myself for anything. It's misplaced pride - I understand since I struggle with the same thing. It's also being a bit competitive too, I always think I can do the same that anyone else can within reason and don't need help.
azsinglegal Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 It's misplaced pride - I understand since I struggle with the same thing. It's also being a bit competitive too, I always think I can do the same that anyone else can within reason and don't need help. You might be right. Allowing someone to help me to ME means I can't do it myself and I'm inferior to them. The older I get, the worse I become about it too...
Els Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 You might be right. Allowing someone to help me to ME means I can't do it myself and I'm inferior to them. The older I get, the worse I become about it too... Really? I never thought about it that way. When you help other people instead, do you think that you're superior to them? I don't mean this in a sarcastic manner, genuinely curious. Are you this way about all forms of help is it just the money that strikes you so deeply?
Emilia Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Really? I never thought about it that way. When you help other people instead, do you think that you're superior to them? I don't mean this in a sarcastic manner, genuinely curious. Are you this way about all forms of help is it just the money that strikes you so deeply? If I had to keep helping someone over and over again with different things then I would probably think they were a bit useless. As one-offs it wouldn't bother me the slightest.
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 You might be right. Allowing someone to help me to ME means I can't do it myself and I'm inferior to them. The older I get, the worse I become about it too... Just an FYI. Lot's of people, especially guys see it this way too. In some ways help = control. All relationships have some kind of power dynamic.
Emilia Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Just an FYI. Lot's of people, especially guys see it this way too. In some ways help = control. All relationships have some kind of power dynamic. Yes I have seen this, with younger men too while when it comes to women we usually develop it at a later stage.
azsinglegal Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Really? I never thought about it that way. When you help other people instead, do you think that you're superior to them? I don't mean this in a sarcastic manner, genuinely curious. Are you this way about all forms of help is it just the money that strikes you so deeply? It depends on what kind of help I'm giving them. But I think it's safe to say the reason we help others is for our egos to feel good or "feel good about ourselves" which can be interpreted as "feeling superior" to them. I sometimes like helping others because I know I can and it makes me feel good. Doesn't always mean I feel better then them, but thinking about it, sometimes it does. Whereas, I interpret someone helping ME as them having control over me. Interesting how things are all about perspective.
Els Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 If I had to keep helping someone over and over again with different things then I would probably think they were a bit useless. As one-offs it wouldn't bother me the slightest. I don't mean someone asking for help. I mean when you offer to help them on your own accord (since we are talking about 'allowing' someone to help you, here, not about asking for it). You HAVE offered to help people unasked before, right? Especially an SO? It depends on what kind of help I'm giving them. But I think it's safe to say the reason we help others is for our egos to feel good or "feel good about ourselves" which can be interpreted as "feeling superior" to them. I sometimes like helping others because I know I can and it makes me feel good. Doesn't always mean I feel better then them, but thinking about it, sometimes it does. Whereas, I interpret someone helping ME as them having control over me. Interesting how things are all about perspective. Hmm, interesting. I think my way of treating relationships is different - I don't see them as control and who's superior, but rather 'we each have our own strengths and weaknesses so we help each other out'. I like to help my guy in various ways and I think he likes taking care of me too.
carhill Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 When a lady's desire and focus on independence supersedes her desire/focus on relationship interdependence, I know we're on separate paths. There's no meeting of the minds. I won't speak for other men, but the generosity of mine women have experienced comes from a socialized concept of 'giving back' of the gifts I was blessed with. That they were/are women is incidental to that process. Sure, if they abuse my generosity, or otherwise treat me poorly, I withdraw it, as I would with any human being. I've done precisely that in a number of cases right here on LS. The process is a mirror of the role modeling an independent woman who later committed to the interdependence of a life-long marriage provided for me. TBH, I think most women I meet these days are independent. Some might feign ignorance or neediness to gain some particular benefit but I've seen enough examples that they, in general, have no problem surviving and thriving on their own. Good for them.
Emilia Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 I don't mean someone asking for help. I mean when you offer to help them on your own accord (since we are talking about 'allowing' someone to help you, here, not about asking for it). You HAVE offered to help people unasked before, right? Especially an SO? All the time. Last night was one example as an ex is having troubles with a tenant, before that I put up another ex for a week when he had nowhere to live (we had split up by then and I offered, he didn't ask), I put curtains up for my mum, etc. I'm a very good friend like that.
Els Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 All the time. Last night was one example as an ex is having troubles with a tenant, before that I put up another ex for a week when he had nowhere to live (we had split up by then and I offered, he didn't ask), I put curtains up for my mum, etc. I'm a very good friend like that. Hence my question: When you help people are you thinking that they're being useless (and in the case of an SO, it would indeed be helping 'the same person' with many different things, simply because you're together longer) or inferior to you? Or are you enjoying helping them?
Emilia Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 It depends on what kind of help I'm giving them. But I think it's safe to say the reason we help others is for our egos to feel good or "feel good about ourselves" which can be interpreted as "feeling superior" to them. I sometimes like helping others because I know I can and it makes me feel good. Doesn't always mean I feel better then them, but thinking about it, sometimes it does. Whereas, I interpret someone helping ME as them having control over me. Interesting how things are all about perspective. No, it's completely different for me. I help because I can. It makes me feel good, I like feeling needed but I don't feel superior at all. Like an ex of mine was coming back to London and he was going to live at a hostel for a week because he needed somewhere to live. My flat was empty at the time as I didn't have tenants for about 6 weeks and I told him he could move in there because I knew he would sort himself out within a week or so. I just had to kick him out of bed with the doorbell every morning before the workmen turned up to work on the flat
azsinglegal Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 I don't mean someone asking for help. I mean when you offer to help them on your own accord (since we are talking about 'allowing' someone to help you, here, not about asking for it). You HAVE offered to help people unasked before, right? Especially an SO? Hmm, interesting. I think my way of treating relationships is different - I don't see them as control and who's superior, but rather 'we each have our own strengths and weaknesses so we help each other out'. I like to help my guy in various ways and I think he likes taking care of me too. Yes, I have offered to help people unasked. I do it all the time actually. And not talking about money, I NEVER offer money. Friends + money = do not mix. That's an interesting perspective. I appreciate that view. I think we have an age difference though, and I have many years of being cynical under my belt which has made me almost bitter in relationships.
Emilia Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Hence my question: When you help people are you thinking that they're being useless (and in the case of an SO, it would indeed be helping 'the same person' with many different things, simply because you're together longer) or inferior to you? Or are you enjoying helping them? Well if I felt someone relied on my for EVERYTHING it would get to me but within reason I like feeling needed. Everyone gets stuck and I might end up calling in some favours one day.
Els Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Yes, I have offered to help people unasked. I do it all the time actually. And not talking about money, I NEVER offer money. Friends + money = do not mix. That's an interesting perspective. I appreciate that view. I think we have an age difference though, and I have many years of being cynical under my belt which has made me almost bitter in relationships. Thanks, az. I'm sorry you've had bad experiences with this before. Well if I felt someone relied on my for EVERYTHING it would get to me but within reason I like feeling needed. Everyone gets stuck and I might end up calling in some favours one day. Hence my thought that it is okay to accept help as well from people who want to help. It doesn't have to be about control and superiority.
Emilia Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Hence my thought that it is okay to accept help as well from people who want to help. It doesn't have to be about control and superiority. I said it was about being competitive (being able to do anything that anyone else can) and misplaced pride. Not control and superiority. I don't think proving to yourself that you can do stuff means you look down on people that can't/don't want to. At least not in my book.
Author singlelife Posted January 10, 2012 Author Posted January 10, 2012 It usually seems that a lady has a hard time SHARING responsibilty once they become independent. It's not a blame game, but it's just a reality. It's very interesting on how many ladies will be able to self police themselves, and become a good partner going forward. By good partner I mean not trying to run the relationship like if you were single, and be able to have a true give and take on a sharing level.
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