ditzchic Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 They scare me. And I'm not sure if they should. I need some insight. The last couple of guys I met have all seemed to be really clingy right off the bat. I had one that was planning dates out month ahead on our first date, talking about introducing me to friends and family right away, wanted to hang out every day immediately and called us a "couple" within the first two weeks. Another I met, we went on one date, it was pretty lackluster but not bad enough that I wanted to write him off completely. He started texting me as soon as we parted ways with all these plans about things we could start doing together, again, months in advance. He invited me to a friends party for the very next weekend. I lost interest. Another, I met we had a great conversation went on a date, it went well but then he started texting me immediately. He tries to text me all day everyday. It's not that I don't like him but I am a busy girl. I don't want to give him the wrong impression that I'm ok with that much communication right now. He's stocking his fridge with things I like already even though I haven't been to house yet and I'm not really sure if I plan to take it that far... I just don't get it. I really like my life and I don't NEED someone there to make it complete. I'd like someone by my side but I'm not about to force anything. It seems like all the guys I meet lately want to try and nail it down right away. I feel like I'm coming across as closed off and uninterested when I'm really not trying to be. I was interested in all 3 of these guys at some point but their rush makes me think their intentions aren't the same as mine. I just want to get to know someone and see where things go. It seems like they get so excited over a woman giving them the time of day that they need to make it a thing ASAP and that is just a turn off for me. Over the weekend I was bitching about it to a guy friend over some drinks and he basically made me feel like an ass by saying something along the lines of "Usually when someone sees something they like they wants to make it theirs." It made me wonder, do I just not like these guys that I don't feel the same way? And how the hell do they know so quickly that they "like" me when we've only hung out once or twice? Thoughts? Is it normal that this is such a turn off to me? Or am I really just a cold hearted, unemotional beyotch?
spinaroonie Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Thanks for articulating this OP. One common problem with online dating (and dating in general) is that men are automatically penalized for being a stranger. You can go out and have a great date with a girl, only to have all the attraction evaporate in a few days as you exchange text messages, trying to plan another date. The fact that you aren't someone that she sees regularly in her daily life means that it will be VERY difficult for her to feel any type of connection to you until you sleep with her. However, if you attempt to "forge" a connection by texting her continually, you will likely be punished for showing too much eagerness. It's a catch 22; this is why most traditional "dating" models don't lead to relationships. The best strategy is to mimic the communication strategies of high valued men and use a woman’s need for validation. This is what it means to be a "challenge." Since the chemistry from your first date will be forgotten in days, the only way to get her interest level up is going to be to plant the seed that you aren't sure about her yet and have other prospects. This means to avoid giving her any closure following the first date. Don't make plans for a second date on the first one, don't text her to make sure she got in ok at the end of the night, and don't text her the next day to thank her for a nice time. Wait at least a couple of days, unless she contacts you first...and even then, show restraint. Her need for validation is going to be the key to getting her out with you again, so you need to make her feel that tension and uncertainty. When you DO ask her out again, keep it short and sweet- don't try too hard to be witty and keep these dates SIMPLE. A man valued by many women will NOT bend over backwards trying to impress a girl he just met. Trying to impress her will send her running at this stage in the game. In the event that she can not make the day you suggest and doesn't offer an alternate day, say nothing. Either wait for her to text you again, or wait a week and contact her. If she cancels the second date abruptly, say nothing. The common thread in these responses is to treat disinterest with amplified disinterest- meaning that you won't even offer her closure by saying, "sure, that ok." This is the only way you can demonstrate value in these situations. I hate game playing, and it's a shame that two people that like each other can't just go out and be transparent with one another. Unfortunately, part of building a connection with a woman lies in having her feel insecure about your feelings towards her -- in the early stages, anyway. Fellas, listen to OP. If you've had a string of (seemingly) great first dates, only to have the girl disappear afterwards, it is because you failed to leave room for doubt. You will have much better luck if you disappear for a bit immediately following the first date.
carhill Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 It seems like all the guys I meet lately want to try and nail it down right away. I have a journal about a nice lady at the post office who became available while I was separated. She was married again before my D was final. That's pretty typical around here. 'You snooze, you lose' I had to change my intrinsic approach style markedly to make any headway in dating back in my 30's. In fact, my exW and I never would have become an 'item' if I had continued that methodical style which had failed me so completely prior. As is often opined by women on these forums, they know within ten seconds of meeting a man whether or not he has potential. If true, and she meets many men each day or week of her life, then it follows that she will be exposed to many styles of approach and many potentials each day/week. A man has no way of knowing whether he is attractive to her or if his approach style is compatible. He only sees the results retrospectively and learns, or not. I learned the harsh way, by women telling me directly the above quote. Question: Have you ever grown a successful relationship with a man who has a 'slow' and 'methodical' style of romancing you? Have you ever found such a man to be attractive? The one who doesn't overtly compliment you at every turn, who doesn't go to sex on the first couple dates, the one who takes time in introducing you to friends and family and doesn't plan out your whole future, rather takes it one step at a time........?? To me, it's about compatible styles. Attraction can morph and change over one's lifetime. It's not an immutable constant, IMO.
Wolf18 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Most guys who want a girlfriend will act this way. If that's not what you want, what exactly do you want? There are plenty of guys out there who will oblige to screw you through the mail slot of their front door and never talk to you again if that's what you want. I can't imagine how someone trying to connect with you, talking to you every day or being considerate to the point of stocking their fridge with things you may like to eat is so offensive, but you're not the only one. I would rather act like that with females I like, but I don't because I know it's seldom appreciated, if not downright unattractive to women. Frankly, you are probably just not attracted to these guys.
TheFinalWord Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Send him this video haha I think a lot of guys just don't know how to handle it at first. If you find you like a guy, you may have to teach him Girls assume guys know this instinctually, but they don't. It took me a few times to learn this and I probably messed up with a few girls that could have been good dating experiences. Guys see you are attractive and have some things in common and they are hooked. These ones are probably not as experienced with women and probably do not have trust issues so they are not hesitant to open up right away. But I do think you are smart to be guarded to a degree; especially at first. To add to that, guys are expected to pursue and they often go over board in letting a woman know they are interested. I've done this myself. Another layer gets added if the woman is professional and independent; because a lot of traditional dating rules are different with this type. Try telling one of these guys how you feel, how he should treat you, and then see how he handles it. That will tell you a lot. Tell him that you like him but he is coming off too strong. If he responds well to your correction, then you can decide. If he doesn't, then you know he's insecure.
bean1 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 You know, I went on an OLD once. He texted me several times after, and then a lot the next day, and then he wanted me to move in after 3 weeks, etc. (gave me his house key 2 weeks later). WTF right? . . . . . Anyways, a few years later, he's in the basement playing a video game and i have to shout to get his attention because his headphones are on. Our kid wants to eat dinner soon and I need him to come upstairs. The point of my short story is this: even good husband material can be awkward, overzealous, and "clingy' in the beginning because they really like you and they can be clumsy trying to balance "cool" and "clingy". Sometimes, when they are really excited, they just can't contain themselves. So why not give them a chance? Not every "clingy" guy is a weirdo out to become suicidal if you stop dating them. The majority of them just struggle with dating! What I would give for a text from him while he's at work again! not so much anymore.
TheFinalWord Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 ...meant to also add: A guy that responds well to your feedback is open-minded and a guy you can communicate with and work through future conflicts with. Just know, guys are very logic-oriented: attractive woman + common interests = great match. They don't often need a long time of emotional bonding to be attracted. Experienced guys can control this. But you can teach him if you decide its worth your investment. Good luck!
Author ditzchic Posted January 9, 2012 Author Posted January 9, 2012 Most guys who want a girlfriend will act this way. If that's not what you want, what exactly do you want? There are plenty of guys out there who will oblige to screw you through the mail slot of their front door and never talk to you again if that's what you want. I can't imagine how someone trying to connect with you, talking to you every day or being considerate to the point of stocking their fridge with things you may like to eat is so offensive, but you're not the only one. I would rather act like that with females I like, but I don't because I know it's seldom appreciated, if not downright unattractive to women. Frankly, you are probably just not attracted to these guys. Like I said, I would like a boyfriend. I don't NEED one though. I get that the guys who seem to jump on it so quick want a girlfriend. And that's respectable. But I have trouble trusting that it's actually me they want and not just the persona of me when they move that quick. Ok, so I'm cute-ish, I'm fun and we have some stuff in common. Is that really all it takes for a guy to decide who is girlfriend material?? Because my criteria for boyfriend material is much more extensive than that...
ThaWholigan Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Like I said, I would like a boyfriend. I don't NEED one though. I get that the guys who seem to jump on it so quick want a girlfriend. And that's respectable. But I have trouble trusting that it's actually me they want and not just the persona of me when they move that quick. Ok, so I'm cute-ish, I'm fun and we have some stuff in common. Is that really all it takes for a guy to decide who is girlfriend material?? Because my criteria for boyfriend material is much more extensive than that... A lot of the time such is the case for a significant portion of men.
Wolf18 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Another reason for the strong efforts made by these males is that when you're talking to even a somewhat good looking woman who has things in common with you, there is always the feeling that it's an American Idol type audition and she's seeing other guys who could be better than you in any number of ways. One chick I tried to date who I liked a lot, was an Aspy. Aspergers people are known to have few if any friends and be somewhat eccentric. But this girl was kind of cute and was far more intelligent than the average female. I wanted to date her as I assumed she was just as romantically inept as I was only to find out she had 4-5 relatively attractive guys professing their love to her every day, who bought her gifts and were fighting eachother to spend time with her, acting just like the guys Ditzchic is talking about. It's tough out there.
Wolf18 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Like I said, I would like a boyfriend. I don't NEED one though. I get that the guys who seem to jump on it so quick want a girlfriend. And that's respectable. But I have trouble trusting that it's actually me they want and not just the persona of me when they move that quick. Ok, so I'm cute-ish, I'm fun and we have some stuff in common. Is that really all it takes for a guy to decide who is girlfriend material?? Because my criteria for boyfriend material is much more extensive than that... In short, yes, that is the only criteria. Well except for guys like say, Kaylan, who has a woman-style laundry list of shallow requirements.
Dust Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Sounds like you didn't really like these guys. They would be smoother to take it slow though. My style would be to try to set up another date before that date was over though. Like if the date was tonight at the end of the date I'd want to have dinner sunday setup or something like that. I'd also send a one txt after the date to let the girl know I like her. Then maybe on Thursday I'd send a quick thinking of you txt looking foward to Sunday. Then Sunday afternoon I'd call to conform we were still going out.
ThaWholigan Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Another reason for the strong efforts made by these males is that when you're talking to even a somewhat good looking woman who has things in common with you, there is always the feeling that it's an American Idol type audition and she's seeing other guys who could be better than you in any number of ways. One chick I tried to date who I liked a lot, was an Aspy. Aspergers people are known to have few if any friends and be somewhat eccentric. But this girl was kind of cute and was far more intelligent than the average female. I wanted to date her as I assumed she was just as romantically inept as I was only to find out she had 4-5 relatively attractive guys professing their love to her every day, who bought her gifts and were fighting eachother to spend time with her, acting just like the guys Ditzchic is talking about. It's tough out there. Ironically, your best chance with girls is not to act like that . I met a make-up artist with Asperger's on a course with other aspies & auties, she was very naturally pretty, and you could tell that she had a lot of guys interested in her. She was such a nice girl aswell, I don't think she realised how pretty she as.
TheFinalWord Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Like I said, I would like a boyfriend. I don't NEED one though. I get that the guys who seem to jump on it so quick want a girlfriend. And that's respectable. But I have trouble trusting that it's actually me they want and not just the persona of me when they move that quick. Ok, so I'm cute-ish, I'm fun and we have some stuff in common. Is that really all it takes for a guy to decide who is girlfriend material?? Because my criteria for boyfriend material is much more extensive than that... A lot of that is lack of experience. If you want you can try to teach him; if not, then I guess just keep looking until you find a guy with the same mentality as you. As far as attraction, it really is that simple for most men, pretty pathetic huh The guys who can control this urge are generally better with women. Because when they blow you off you try harder. It takes guys a while to get the hang of it.
Dust Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 In short, yes, that is the only criteria. Well except for guys like say, Kaylan, who has a woman-style laundry list of shallow requirements. Yes if she wanted to date Kaylan she'd have to be able to bench press him. She'd also have to be a doctor, lawyer, scientist some kind of professional or sucessful business owner not just a receptionist or server, or god forbid a jobless girl! Finaly and most importantly if she wanted to date Kaylan she'd need six pack abs.
spinaroonie Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Like I said, I would like a boyfriend. I don't NEED one though. I get that the guys who seem to jump on it so quick want a girlfriend. And that's respectable. But I have trouble trusting that it's actually me they want and not just the persona of me when they move that quick. Ok, so I'm cute-ish, I'm fun and we have some stuff in common. Is that really all it takes for a guy to decide who is girlfriend material?? Because my criteria for boyfriend material is much more extensive than that... Yes, women tend to project their wants and desires onto men. In reality, the vast majority for men are perfectly content with a woman with a pretty face, fit body and pleasant personality. The comedian Chris Rock had a hilarious bit that "women want everything, all men want is "food, sex, and silence." Since these women are increasingly rare, a man who comes across one is ready to to do everything to reel her in. Problem is most men don't realize that this will only chase her away.
Imajerk17 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Interesting posts and I think they bring up some good points. Get the second date scheduled soon and yes, make moves physically, and yes, stay in contact. If your "competition" sees the girl twice as often as you do, then he has a huge advantage. If he sleeps with her while you're still "taking her out", you're toast. But at some point less is more though. Carhill, I'm not sure what you mean by your "slow and methodical style", but that said, I'm sure there is a difference between that and texting so much early on, talking about future plans... Edited January 9, 2012 by Imajerk17
Wolf18 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Ironically, your best chance with girls is not to act like that . I met a make-up artist with Asperger's on a course with other aspies & auties, she was very naturally pretty, and you could tell that she had a lot of guys interested in her. She was such a nice girl aswell, I don't think she realised how pretty she as. You can bet her male equivalent would be...invisible. I know a few guys with autism (I even work with one), they either have noone or women considerably less attractive than them. When I hear a woman refer to a good looking guy as "creepy", it's almost always a guy with assburgers Maybe I should join some autistic club and pick up chicks by not being autistic, kind of like that movie the Ringer where the guy whose not retarded competes in the Special Olympics. You would think this would be a great shortcut, but even autistic girls have a thousand suitors Yes if she wanted to date Kaylan she'd have to be able to bench press him. She'd also have to be a doctor, lawyer, scientist some kind of professional or sucessful business owner not just a receptionist or server, or god forbid a jobless girl! Finaly and most importantly if she wanted to date Kaylan she'd need six pack abs. [/Quote] Honestly, I wish there were more guys like that. Then maybe more women would know how it feels to get rejected for something small and shallow and dealing with women romantically would not be so excruciatingly difficult.
somedude81 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Here's my theory. These guys are going on very few dates. They finally find a girl that will go out with him and he wants to do everything to try and land her because he has no idea when he'll be able to out with another. It's also very natural for a guy to quickly develop feelings in this situation. As for you, what was the time frame of going out with these guys? All in one month?
Imajerk17 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 This is related to that, but many women whose boundaries are a bit weaker (most women) actually get sucked into that. It's never about what she prefers, it's more about what she does. I'm not someone who needs to see someone everyday, text them nonstop. But I am aware that often, it's the guy who wants her the most who gets her.
Imajerk17 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 That said ditzchick, I think that YES, this clingy behavior on the part of guys is a sign of poor boundaries, and YES, you ought to hold out for someone who has more emotional control and more solid boundaries. BUT there are many guys who have had success with coming on strong like that, especially in this ADD, 24/7 world we live in nowadays. That is the point of my posts on this thread.
ThaWholigan Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 You can bet her male equivalent would be...invisible. I know a few guys with autism (I even work with one), they either have noone or women considerably less attractive than them. When I hear a woman refer to a good looking guy as "creepy", it's almost always a guy with assburgers Maybe I should join some autistic club and pick up chicks by not being autistic, kind of like that movie the Ringer where the guy whose not retarded competes in the Special Olympics. You would think this would be a great shortcut, but even autistic girls have a thousand suitors Well, the spectrum is quite broad, and I have a cousin who is also Aspergers and has ADHD, he is swimming with so much girls, he has recently promised to send some my way :laugh:. He is also like me though, quite cerebral, difference is he is a bad boy (sells drugs, drives illegally etc). As an aspergers/autistic guy, I have never been referred to as creepy thankfully, but people do remark that I am almost too calm and sometimes emotionally detached. It works for me though, I just need to know how to convey my mystery in an attractive way. But yeah, high-functioning autistic men can do really well with girls, given the right tools
Author ditzchic Posted January 9, 2012 Author Posted January 9, 2012 Here's my theory. These guys are going on very few dates. They finally find a girl that will go out with him and he wants to do everything to try and land her because he has no idea when he'll be able to out with another. It's also very natural for a guy to quickly develop feelings in this situation. As for you, what was the time frame of going out with these guys? All in one month? The first one was from a few months ago. The last two were are within the last month. And yes, I'm in the "just talking" stages with other guys as well.
Imajerk17 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) Thanks for articulating this OP. One common problem with online dating (and dating in general) is that men are automatically penalized for being a stranger. You can go out and have a great date with a girl, only to have all the attraction evaporate in a few days as you exchange text messages, trying to plan another date. The fact that you aren't someone that she sees regularly in her daily life means that it will be VERY difficult for her to feel any type of connection to you until you sleep with her. However, if you attempt to "forge" a connection by texting her continually, you will likely be punished for showing too much eagerness. It's a catch 22; this is why most traditional "dating" models don't lead to relationships. The best strategy is to mimic the communication strategies of high valued men and use a woman’s need for validation. This is what it means to be a "challenge." Since the chemistry from your first date will be forgotten in days, the only way to get her interest level up is going to be to plant the seed that you aren't sure about her yet and have other prospects. This means to avoid giving her any closure following the first date. Don't make plans for a second date on the first one, don't text her to make sure she got in ok at the end of the night, and don't text her the next day to thank her for a nice time. Wait at least a couple of days, unless she contacts you first...and even then, show restraint. Her need for validation is going to be the key to getting her out with you again, so you need to make her feel that tension and uncertainty. When you DO ask her out again, keep it short and sweet- don't try too hard to be witty and keep these dates SIMPLE. A man valued by many women will NOT bend over backwards trying to impress a girl he just met. Trying to impress her will send her running at this stage in the game. In the event that she can not make the day you suggest and doesn't offer an alternate day, say nothing. Either wait for her to text you again, or wait a week and contact her. If she cancels the second date abruptly, say nothing. The common thread in these responses is to treat disinterest with amplified disinterest- meaning that you won't even offer her closure by saying, "sure, that ok." This is the only way you can demonstrate value in these situations. I hate game playing, and it's a shame that two people that like each other can't just go out and be transparent with one another. Unfortunately, part of building a connection with a woman lies in having her feel insecure about your feelings towards her -- in the early stages, anyway. Fellas, listen to OP. If you've had a string of (seemingly) great first dates, only to have the girl disappear afterwards, it is because you failed to leave room for doubt. You will have much better luck if you disappear for a bit immediately following the first date. Interesting stuff spinaroonie, and I feel the need to comment. [Why is it that the best posts on this forum tend to not be commented on? This one deserves a comment...] I'm not sure I agree that disappearing after a first date for a few days is best though. I see what a guy who does this is going for--her wondering "Why hasn't he contacted me yet? Will he ask me out again?"--and if she is doing this, then the guy wins. I'm not sure if that always happens. The chemistry after the date vanishes quickly as you said, and meanwhile, she is hearing from guy after guy. Who is to say that she won't end up losing interest? Edited January 9, 2012 by Imajerk17
somedude81 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 The first one was from a few months ago. The last two were are within the last month. And yes, I'm in the "just talking" stages with other guys as well. And that's what it is. You're in the talking stage with maybe 4-5 guys in the time period of a month, and you divide your feelings between them all. While for each guy, you may be the only girl that they've been in this stage with in a couple months, or more. That is one reason why dating is so hard for men.
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