TheSingleGuy Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 My ex-wife divorced me 4 years ago. It was six months before I was able to even get laid. So I bought some self help stuff on the web, mainly stuff from the seduction industry, it helped. For whatever reason, I just refuse to do OLD. I feel it's just way better to meet someone in real life. To show her I have the guts to risk rejection and ask for her number, face to face. I know it may be stupid, but it's just the way my brain works. A waitress at Hooters once responded to a question I asked "Would you ever date a guy you met in a bar?". She said "If there was good conversation." It stuck in my brain, so I only ask for a girl's number if she's really showing tons of interest and there's been a lot of conversation. So, for the first two years, I'd occasionally run into a girl who would agree to a date and the day of, she's not responding to text or phone call. But I don't think I ever once ran across one who did it twice in a row. They'd show up on Thea second chance date. So...two years after my divorce mom made a comment at Christmas about my weight gain. I made it my 2010 resolution to get six pack abs. Of course, this requires a very strict diet and excellent gym attendance. I have to say, this has definitely made me more attractive to women. Women have told me I'm sexy, hot, handsome...I get these comments all the time. One girl I dated even said I could be a super model. Another girl said I could be a Chippendale's guy. But here is where things have disconnected from what I thought would happen with women and dating: I still continue to meet women out in real life. It's easier now, generally speaking, to keep conversations going, they just seam more apt to put in effort on their end, whereas before, they'd let it die. So now days, I get their numbers, call them...whatever...and ask them out. Just like I was doing 2 & 3 years ago. They flake out the day of. Just disappear, and don't respond to calls or texts the day of. That part is pretty normal for women, except for this: Before the great improvement, they would flake out, I'm guessing, 30 to 40% of the time. Now days, first dates flake out 90-95% of the time. So I continue to pursue, just as I did 2 & 3 years ago, set up a second chance date...and they do it again. So then I assume she's just not interested. But then, she starts texting me...baiting me in for one last chance. One girl did this to me repeatedly. She must have flaked on me 20 times. (I've asked her many times why she does it but she will never tell me.) It is so routine now days. I've started making other plans the night of the first date knowing they'll flake out. Then I read another thread on here where a woman connected the dots that a health freak, gym rat is self absorbed. Honestly, I don't know how those dots get connected, but, for anyone still reading, could this be the reason for my horrible track record with women the last two years??? Are these women assuming I must be a self absorbed a-hole because of this? Despite the fact that there was good conversation when we met?
ditzchic Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I don't think they are automatically writing you off as self-absorbed based on the fact that you care about yourself. If you really do look as good as you say you do they know from the get go that you are a gym rat and are still talking to you. There does seem to be a disconnect between the initial physical attraction and your ability to keep them interested though. Maybe they are seeing you as self-absorbed but it has less to do with how often you go to the gym vs. what you are saying to them between the time they give you their number and the time you meet. Do you ask them about themselves in this time period? Do you try and have conversations to get to know them? Or are you just telling them all about your workouts and how awesome you are?
Philosoraptor Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I think in general people idolize those with more attractive features but aren't confident enough in themselves to approach or believe that this attractive person has too many options to be worth too much effort. They might even write you off as a one night stand type and want more. While you have gotten more attractive from your exercise (congrats by the way) you've also become less approachable and more intimidating. Why go for the 10 who has many many options when you can go with a safe but still very attractive 8?
Dust Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Heres the thing your not in sales. If you ask out 100 beautiful women in a year and only 20-10 of them are dateable you only need 1 of those 10-20 women to work out. Heck even if you're some kind of player you only need 2 or 3 women at most to juggle in your life as friends with benefits because any more then that and it will be to much. Spend your time focusing on the 10-20% who don't flake and don't worry so much about the 80-90% who are flaking. If you have a pasion for body building then enjoy that passon. Do it for you and don't worry so much about women flaking. That is disrespectful on their part no reason why they need to be agreeing to dates multiple times and then always backing out. You just need to be respectful to yourself and others because thats all you have control over.
TheFinalWord Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 (edited) I don't think that is it bro b/c there's a lot of women into exercise and fitness. A lot of women are just flaky. I am the same way and try to figure out if I did something wrong. But then I realize I am trying to rationalize women's behavior and there is no way to do it. Hey, if Stephen Hawking can't figure it out, what chance do I have http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/one-last-mystery-for-stephen-hawking-women-6285978.html I am also very active with weight lifting. I can't imagine dating someone who does not enjoy some aspect of fitness. Basically between work that's one of the main social events of the week for me. It can also make for an easy date...gym and smoothie bar. Are you asking out women in your gym? Edited January 9, 2012 by TheFinalWord
Lobouspo Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Ditto here as well. Always have dealt with the typical flakes when i have been single and dating. I am 37 and most the women i went out with this past year were about 10 years younger so maybe its a generational thing. How old are these women you are dating? My problem seems to be second and third dates where they flake out. Like you, i now have a plan B for when I have a date in case they cancel. Effing ridiculous we have to do this. I just sum up dating as a microcosm of the culture....more narcissistic and selfish with a profound disregard for others
FitChick Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 How are the current crop of women OP is dating different from the earlier crop he was dating? More attractive, less attractive or the same? Only unfit people think fit people are self-absorbed. That's my theory!
HughHardcastle Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I think in general people idolize those with more attractive features but aren't confident enough in themselves to approach or believe that this attractive person has too many options to be worth too much effort. They might even write you off as a one night stand type and want more. While you have gotten more attractive from your exercise (congrats by the way) you've also become less approachable and more intimidating. Why go for the 10 who has many many options when you can go with a safe but still very attractive 8? Once again, Philosoraptor speaks the truth. Are you still meeting women at the same places as before? Or are you now meeting most of these girls at the gym? That could have something to do with it. It's just a fact of life. If you're hot, you'll attract a different type of person than if you were just "average" looking.
laotzu Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 Be honest with us - what are your faults? Job, height, some weird tattoo? Just curious. Or otherwise, are you typically asking out girls who are much younger? I don't get too many flakes with someone once they agree to go out, but I'm not asking out as many people are you are. I don't think 6 months after a four year marriage is that bad, btw. Most people have a long slump after a relationship like that. I did the exact same thing, and many of my friends did, as well.
Wolf18 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I think , personally, fitness should be a consequence of lifestyle instead of a lifestyle in and of itself. Someone who is active in life and doesn't eat like a glutton will be relatively fit, but some people take the gym thing to the next level. I have never had OCD, but I think some would call my past fitness behavior such. I was always athletic but thin, starting at maybe 15 I had really great fitness goals and succeeded by 16-17. I would measure out exactly how much peanut butter I would eat a day and spend hours looking through food labels to find the perfect fat to protein ratio. When I'd go out I wouldn't be able to eat anything at places like TGI Fridays, despite loving their mozzarella sticks. I would bust my ass working out and eating boring food during the week, but pollute myself on the weekend via bing drinking and drugs One day, when I was around age 19, I looked at how much money and time I was spending on working out, supplements and food, and was shocked. I quit working out and caring about what I eat, and yes, I no longer have a chiseled six pack (now I have a 4 pack ) or massive shoulders, but I am still athletic. I have to say, I'm much happier now that I let go of my stupid vanity or the hollywood definition of a man in virtually every way, except for the massive decrease in female attention to almost nothing. Moral of the story: the amount of effort and attention having a 6 pack requires, speaking from the point of view of someone who used to have one, does indeed reflect self-absorbtion and vanity. Seeing weight lifting as a hobby to stay in shape is one thing, making the shape of your body the only purpose in life is another. Most of the people chasing physical perfection tend towards the latter.
kaylan Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 How are the current crop of women OP is dating different from the earlier crop he was dating? More attractive, less attractive or the same? Only unfit people think fit people are self-absorbed. That's my theory! What was said in bold is very true. When you make yourself more successful in any area, you will have haters. If you dont have haters, it means you are doing something wrong. OP, let me tell you this...the confidence I gained from going to the gym was only really appreciated by other fit people. Ive had a couple girls try and label me as a dolt or as self absorbed...even tell me they prefer a guy whos a little pudgy Of course these girls werent in super good shape themselves. Tbh, I find that active and fit girls act less threatened by my need to work out and watch what I eat. Ive even had girls jealous of my genetics because I can eat whatever I want and still look good, but I chose to be healthier though. Basically, haters gon' hate.
Yamaha Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 A waitress at Hooters once responded to a question I asked It seems you put alot of stock in the responses of hooter girls. *ha* Might be why they flake on you. I would surmise you ask this type of girl out for a date. Try a different type of girl if you want a diffrent response.
Ninjainpajamas Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I'm taking a shot in the dark here but it seems to me you might be putting too much of a stake in your body or fitness. Even sub-consciously you are thinking about it. But obviously you are somehow connecting dots that your personal health and desires are in the way of you getting feedback from women? I mean think about it..how much does that even make sense? Where some women may feel you are self-absorbed or not into you because you are the muscular guy they're not really into, most of them I would imagine would not mind a guy with a good body. I don't see a down side in that for them as much as it would be for a guy unless it made them feel more insecure which imo you haven't even gotten to that step. However your approach and interaction with these women is making an impression and like your abs maybe you need to reconstruct and evaluate what you are doing there..because that is likely the cause of your problem and not anything to do with your body...in fact most women would like to live a healthier lifestyle and probably feel you'd be an encouragement to that in a relationship. It's something else you're doing....I know a lot of guys here expect a very low return ratio with women because that is their experience but honestly you can achieve a pretty high ratio if you're making a good impression...most women wouldn't want to ignore a guy who seems like a good catch.
Author TheSingleGuy Posted January 9, 2012 Author Posted January 9, 2012 ++++Be honest with us - what are your faults? Job, height, some weird tattoo?++++ No one is perfect, but I have sense enough to know that I carry a lot of value in the mating market. I am 5 foot 11. No tattoos. Been self employed for 10 years and do extremely well financially. My biggest fault is that I'm naturally a shy person and for most of my life, have had very little confidence. Massive improvement has been made in this area over the last few years, since the divorce. But the confidence thing is not something that can be fixed as readily as one's appearance. Retraining your brain is way harder than improving your physical appearance. My parents dressed me in cheap clothes growing up. My dad has almost no self confidence. So I was never the cool kid. I was picked on a lot growing up. My friends & I were all the social rejects of the jr high and high school. That's caused a self image flaw that may never fully heal. Typically, the women I pursue these days are younger than they were the first couple of years. The first two years after the divorce, I was pursuing only women in my own age group. Lately, it's been almost exclusively younger women, and looking back, that seems to be the more flakey type. I am guessing it's just because they are better looking and an attractive guy like myself is way more common for them, whereas with the older women, guys like me just don't come along as much. I know that may sound self-absorbed, I hope I don't come across that way. So it may be that younger women with more male options are just flakier. Or perhaps it's because they are hung up on the age differential.
Dust Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 younger better looking girls are generally more flakey then older worse looking girls. For example a 22 year old hottie is more likely to flake then a 32 year old who looks and acts older...
Yamaha Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Only unfit people think fit people are self-absorbed. That's my theory! IME stereotypical images have an element of truth. This does not mean ALL fit people are self-absorbed but generally over 50% of fit people would fall in the catagory of self-absorbed.
GildedLily Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Too big of an age difference might be the problem. Young women in their 20's (20 - 25) are generally not looking for men much older than them anymore. Think youngish looks like Robert Pattinson, Tatum Channing etc. You may look a lot better but use that as license to date better within your age group- like the beautiful woman with a great JOB in her 30's that you wouldn't have gotten before. Remember it's not just the young women that have their pick of men; I got out of a relationship at 33 and literally had my pick of men lawyers, doctors and other accomplished men, why? simple I was still attractive to them as I had no children and no divorces, had a great paying career- plus I'm (gym) fit and facially attractive.
Feelsgoodman Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 This is a very good thread. I generally agree with everything that Philosoraptor said. Part fo the problem is that so many women nowadays have serious confidence/self-esteem issues. They will flake on you - or even outright reject you - because they think you are too good for them. They think that a guy who they find very attractive would not be interested in anything serious with them and would only use them for sex. As stupid as it sounds, they are so fearful of being "used" that they'd rather not even try. One thing you can do to mitigate this is going after more attractive women. They generally have more confidence and because they are attractive themselves, they would not see you as being too good for them. As a general rule, it's always best to go for people who are on the same level as you on the attractiveness scale.
Author TheSingleGuy Posted January 10, 2012 Author Posted January 10, 2012 Yes, one of the girls I mentioned earlier, who would flake repeatedly, then bait me back in with text messages that made me think she really was interested...she once said "I could never date a guy who is prettier than me."
Feelsgoodman Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Yes, one of the girls I mentioned earlier, who would flake repeatedly, then bait me back in with text messages that made me think she really was interested...she once said "I could never date a guy who is prettier than me." You should also read this thread... Canceling Dates Due tof Anxiety and Depression: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t311849/ I honestly believe that this is a huge phenomenon with women nowadays. There are so many young women who are depressed and insecure...it's not surprising that they are terrified of dating. The problem is that while they may be too anxious to go on a date, they still string you along pretending to be interested in order to get your attention (which I believe is their coping mechanism).
bean1 Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Are you self absorbed? Do you talk about health/fitness too much? Honest question to yourself. I was a weightlifter for many years and I have dated 2 guys who are 'health freaks' - one loved it but had other hobbies, one literally could not shut up about it (and considering I worked out 1-2 hours a day, I could handle a lot more "workout talk" than the average person). The 2nd guy drove me nuts.
Star Gazer Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 I think , personally, fitness should be a consequence of lifestyle instead of a lifestyle in and of itself. Someone who is active in life and doesn't eat like a glutton will be relatively fit, but some people take the gym thing to the next level. ... Moral of the story: the amount of effort and attention having a 6 pack requires, speaking from the point of view of someone who used to have one, does indeed reflect self-absorbtion and vanity. Seeing weight lifting as a hobby to stay in shape is one thing, making the shape of your body the only purpose in life is another. Most of the people chasing physical perfection tend towards the latter. I couldn't agree more! Only unfit people think fit people are self-absorbed. That's my theory! Well then, your theory is bunk. I spend most of my social time with VERY fit people - people who run sub-3:30 marathons or 100 mile races, people who win regional and national CrossFit competitions, people who own/run gyms or bootcamps. They are insanely fit, and wonderful people, and not self-absorbed at all. I'm also in pretty damn good shape, but I can pick out a self-absorbed fit person from a non-self-absorbed person (from a physical standpoint) quite easily. As Wolf said above, there's a huge difference between getting/being fit as a consequence of lifestyle and enjoying the benefits, and getting/being fit with the primary purpose of LOOKING GOOD and showing off.
Imajerk17 Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Well then, your theory is bunk. I spend most of my social time with VERY fit people - people who run sub-3:30 marathons or 100 mile races, people who win regional and national CrossFit competitions, people who own/run gyms or bootcamps. They are insanely fit, and wonderful people, and not self-absorbed at all. I'm also in pretty damn good shape, but I can pick out a self-absorbed fit person from a non-self-absorbed person (from a physical standpoint) quite easily. As Wolf said above, there's a huge difference between getting/being fit as a consequence of lifestyle and enjoying the benefits, and getting/being fit with the primary purpose of LOOKING GOOD and showing off. Very interesting. I do CrossFit too. Even just getting to Regionals is an accomplishment, so much respect. Anyway, I'm assuming you're talking about "mirror" athletes--those who workout for vanity, versus those who train because they are passionate in their sport, such as you and your friends winning these CrossFit competitions. The average person, such as the girls the OP is meeting, might not see the difference. Most of the serious CrossFitters I know are strict with their diet--e.g., Paleo vs Zone and so on. And we can really get on a roll talking about our WODs and PRs and our box's programming and "doing it Rx" and so on. [i have a tendency too, but I temper myself.] The hour in the box is often the highlight of our day. There is a decent amount of time, money, and energy on our part that is being tied up here in our pursuit of CrossFit (and eating clean and getting the extra hour of sleep a night, and so on) too. This probably doesn't come across as self-absorbed to you or me, but to the average person, it probably does. Edited January 10, 2012 by Imajerk17
tman666 Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 What I've found is that it's best to treat the subject of fitness/dietary views/philosophies/lifestyles to your self. I've basically started treating (at least in most cases) the subject sort of like religious or political views. For the vast majority of people, they will either a) not care at all and see you as self absorbed or vain or b) have a view on the subject that differs from yours and be close minded or even militant about defending their views and/or debunking yours. Either way, the minute the subject is discussed, people will judge you for it in some form or another. Rarely is this judgement positive. I think that the best approach is to stick to what you love to do and what works for you in terms of fitness/diet and enjoy the benefits produced by your choices. Don't make it a point to openly discuss your views on the subject unless you're CERTAIN that you're in the type of company that is in an equal position to carry on an open minded, equally informed conversation.
Imajerk17 Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 OP, I have few theories: (1) When you were just above average-looking, your personality fit your looks. You might have been a little shy, but that's OK, because most average-looking guys are. Now that you are so much better-looking, your personality doesn't match your looks. Women see you expecting ultra-confidence because you're so good-looking, and when you don't deliver that, it might be a bit of a let-down. (2) Women might think you're a player because you're so good-looking. They think that you could date any woman you want, so why would you be interested in them. Do the women you talk to know *why* you want to see them again? (3) Women in their 20's are flakier than older women. Many younger women have some guy in the picture, be it an ex, a friend, so on and so forth. A woman in her 30's--not so much. So you have more of their attention and investment.
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