Breezy Trousers Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I'm pretty bored with the topic of infidelity these days but it keeps rearing its ugly head into my life like a bad STD. So here I am again. Which brings me to this topic: My girlfriend embarked on a three-year affair with a MM in 2008. She was a subordinate at work. He's been her only lover for two years. She finally broke things off two or three months ago. Last week, she learned she learned she now has genital herpes, presumably from MM. Apparently, people can transmit the herpes virus without realizing they are carriers. (I admit, I don't know much about STD, even though I went through a battery of tests for it when I learned about DH's infidelities prior to 2001.) I told my friend throughout the duration of the affair that she should practice safe sex and that it was unlikely she was the only OW for this guy. She insisted he was too busy to have more than one OW and was too nervous about getting caught (again). My friend is despondent now. She's now thinking about calling her former workplace to alert them. She has nothing to lose at this point, and she's concerned about current employees at the firm. HR at the former workplace confronted my friend and her MM about having an affair in early 2010 but both lied and denied it. (He lost his previous job for having affairs with work subordinates.) I'm concerned about this man's BS. Most MM tell OW they don't have sex with their wives, but, of course, they do. I don't know the woman, however. I'm not really looking for advice here but am just curious: What would you do in my situation? Thanks.
PhoenixRise Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I'm pretty bored with the topic of infidelity these days but it keeps rearing its ugly head into my life like a bad STD. So here I am again. Which brings me to this topic: My girlfriend embarked on a three-year affair with a MM in 2008. She was a subordinate at work. He's been her only lover for two years. She finally broke things off two or three months ago. Last week, she learned she learned she now has genital herpes, presumably from MM. Apparently, people can transmit the herpes virus without realizing they are carriers. (I admit, I don't know much about STD, even though I went through a battery of tests for it when I learned about DH's infidelities prior to 2001.) I told my friend throughout the duration of the affair that she should practice safe sex and that it was unlikely she was the only OW for this guy. She insisted he was too busy to have more than one OW and was too nervous about getting caught (again). My friend is despondent now. She's now thinking about calling her former workplace to alert them. She has nothing to lose at this point, and she's concerned about current employees at the firm. HR at the former workplace confronted my friend and her MM about having an affair in early 2010 but both lied and denied it. (He lost his previous job for having affairs with work subordinates.) I'm concerned about this man's BS. Most MM tell OW they don't have sex with their wives, but, of course, they do. I don't know the woman, however. I'm not really looking for advice here but am just curious: What would you do in my situation? Thanks. Breezy I am generally in favor of affairs being disclosed to the BS. In a case where there is an STD it is even MORE crucial that the affair be disclosed. If I were in your situation I would strongly encourage my friend to disclose the affair and the STD to the wife. Your friend now knows the facts necessary to protect her health going forward. Having herpes increases her chances of catching other STDs including HIV. Hopefully, you friend is/has learned what she needs to do to protect herself. The wife needs that same information. Your friend should tell her.
freestyle Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I have to second what Phoenix said. What many people aren't aware of, regarding STDs--(they didn't tell us about the link to cancers in health class when I was in high school, anyways....) Aside from the obvious life-threatening ones, & the ones that can get cleared up with penicillin---they have found that cervical cancer can be caused by the transmission of the HPV virus.As well as penile cancer, anal cancer, and oropharyngeal cancer (back of the throat). And unfortunately--in cases of cervical cancer--there typically are no outward symptoms until the cancer has advanced considerably. So, YES! The BS should be told, absolutely.
bentnotbroken Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 She needs to know so that she can protect herself.
frozensprouts Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 I agree that the guy's wife needs to know so she can protect her health...there are so many STD's out there and some of them can be life threatening ( not just HIV but syphilis, HPV, etc.). Someone can have these and not even know it- they get transferred to their partner, and the person may not even be aware they've been infected until it's too late for treatment.
Spark1111 Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 She cannot alert human resources. That info (medical health) is private and HR cannot do the deed for her. She has to alert the BS directly, OR, if she trusts her MM to tell his wife the truth, inform him and insist he tell her. STDs present more dramatically in women for the obvious reasons and are easier to diagnose. They are especially deadly for us. Also, STDS and HIV can be transmitted through oral and anal through cuts and tears in the skin and the only known preventative is abstinence, or the use of a condom and/ or the use of a dam.
KathyM Posted January 9, 2012 Posted January 9, 2012 She cannot alert human resources. That info (medical health) is private and HR cannot do the deed for her. She has to alert the BS directly, OR, if she trusts her MM to tell his wife the truth, inform him and insist he tell her. STDs present more dramatically in women for the obvious reasons and are easier to diagnose. They are especially deadly for us. Also, STDS and HIV can be transmitted through oral and anal through cuts and tears in the skin and the only known preventative is abstinence, or the use of a condom and/ or the use of a dam. I'd just like to add that a condom only reduces the risk of contracting STDs. There is still a risk of contracting an STD, even with a condom. But the risk is lower if a condom is used. Genital herpes is transmitted through skin contact, and even with the use of a condom, there is skin contact to some degree that can transmit the virus.
Author Breezy Trousers Posted January 10, 2012 Author Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Thanks, everyone. I was afraid of this. I read The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks last summer. Henrietta Lacks died an agonizing death, at age 31, of cervical cancer. If I remember correctly, research suggests her cervical cancer strain probably resulted from an STD contracted from her husband, who had affairs. I asked two longtime trusted friends -- who don't know my friend -- if they thought I should send an anonymous "CONFIDENTIAL" letter to the BS's office, asking her to please get tested for STD immediately. (I'm afraid if I send it to her house, MM will see & intercept it.) There would be NO details in the letter like, "I'm friends with a woman who has been engaging in very high risk, unprotected sex with your husband for the past three years. She has just been diagnosed with genital herpes, and your husband has been her only sexual partner for the past two years." .... My friends -- both very grounded, longtime married women -- counseled me to keep my mouth shut and stay out of it. I asked them, "When is it permissible to cross the line and tell? When it's full-blown AIDS?" Keeping my mouth shut is the easiest thing for me to do, really. However, my friend refuses to tell BS. I'm at my wits end, having urged and even yelled at her to do so. I know she's furious at MM and is concerned his apparent sex addiction may present a serious health risk to former co-workers due to his serial pattern, but she doesn't seem to worry about his wife of 25 years because she is adamant that he no longer has sex with her. I hope she's right. It's highly unlikely this man will disclose this information to his wife. I set a boundary with this friend last summer about not discussing the affair with me anymore because I didn't support it, but this has now turned into an unexpected ethical issue/health crisis. Thank you for your input and information. Edited January 10, 2012 by Breezy Trousers
So_Overit Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Agree with your friends - keep your mouth shut & butt out. Seriously. Why are you inviting yourself into someone else's drama? Turn your attention on yourself and your own life. Herpes is not AIDS, and I think you are overdramatizing here... and it's not even YOUR personal problem! If this situation bothers you so much, ask your friend (who has all of these lovely problems) to not discuss with you anymore. Remove yourself.
bentnotbroken Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 Agree with your friends - keep your mouth shut & butt out. Seriously. Why are you inviting yourself into someone else's drama? Turn your attention on yourself and your own life. Herpes is not AIDS, and I think you are overdramatizing here... and it's not even YOUR personal problem! If this situation bothers you so much, ask your friend (who has all of these lovely problems) to not discuss with you anymore. Remove yourself. Herpes is not AIDS. HIV is not AIDS. HPV is not AIDS. Gonorrhea is not AIDS. Chlamydia is not AIDS. Syphilis is not AIDS. Yet people are exposed to them daily. Contract them daily. Pass them on to unborn children daily. Die from them daily. There are some people in the world who do feel the need to reach out to others no matter the label attached to it.
Author Breezy Trousers Posted January 10, 2012 Author Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Agree with your friends - keep your mouth shut & butt out. Seriously. Why are you inviting yourself into someone else's drama? Turn your attention on yourself and your own life. Herpes is not AIDS, and I think you are overdramatizing here... and it's not even YOUR personal problem! If this situation bothers you so much, ask your friend (who has all of these lovely problems) to not discuss with you anymore. Remove yourself. Understood. Your point is well taken. I don't think I'm overdramatizing, though. Herpes is permanent. My friend is going on six months of medication to ward off painful outbreaks because of her poor choices ..... I'm assuming if you were the BS here, you'd be okay with herpes outbreaks for the rest of your life, even if you didn't get to make an informed choice in the matter? You'd be okay with a third party knowing about that risk but never informing you because it wasn't really their problem? You'd be okay putting "herpes" on your dating resume as a middle aged woman if you divorce your husband for infidelity? And dealing with the increased health risks outlined above? Seriously? I'm not being flippant. I'm sincerely asking. Edited January 10, 2012 by Breezy Trousers
Author Breezy Trousers Posted January 10, 2012 Author Posted January 10, 2012 Some stats says that 80% of the people who have herpes are unaware of it. Another stat is that 1 in 5 american's above the age of 12 have it. Genital herpes? Holy cow. It makes sense, though .... I can't imagine this guy happily & knowingly infecting my friend. He's a SA, not a psycho.
JustK Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 I wish someone had told me. Someone should tell the wife but I wouldn't send it to her office, that would be horrible to have to deal with in a work setting. I found out "FOR SURE" about my husband when my pap came back abnormal and my OB/GYN who I have been going to since I was 20 years old very gently asked if they should be testing me for STDs. I said no at first and then I replayed in my head and said yes. Results showed I had chlamydia. He's been my only partner for over 18 years and I had nothing when I was first pregnant (last time I had a fully battery of tests) Chlamydia is treatable and I'm okay now but being told I had it was one of the most humiliating and heartbreaking things I've ever dealt with.
PhoenixRise Posted January 10, 2012 Posted January 10, 2012 (edited) Thanks, everyone. I was afraid of this. I read The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks last summer. Henrietta Lacks died an agonizing death, at age 31, of cervical cancer. If I remember correctly, research suggests her cervical cancer strain probably resulted from an STD contracted from her husband, who had affairs. I asked two longtime trusted friends -- who don't know my friend -- if they thought I should send an anonymous "CONFIDENTIAL" letter to the BS's office, asking her to please get tested for STD immediately. (I'm afraid if I send it to her house, MM will see & intercept it.) There would be NO details in the letter like, "I'm friends with a woman who has been engaging in very high risk, unprotected sex with your husband for the past three years. She has just been diagnosed with genital herpes, and your husband has been her only sexual partner for the past two years." .... My friends -- both very grounded, longtime married women -- counseled me to keep my mouth shut and stay out of it. I asked them, "When is it permissible to cross the line and tell? When it's full-blown AIDS?" Keeping my mouth shut is the easiest thing for me to do, really. However, my friend refuses to tell BS. I'm at my wits end, having urged and even yelled at her to do so. I know she's furious at MM and is concerned his apparent sex addiction may present a serious health risk to former co-workers due to his serial pattern, but she doesn't seem to worry about his wife of 25 years because she is adamant that he no longer has sex with her. I hope she's right. It's highly unlikely this man will disclose this information to his wife. I set a boundary with this friend last summer about not discussing the affair with me anymore because I didn't support it, but this has now turned into an unexpected ethical issue/health crisis. Thank you for your input and information. Breezy your friends are trying to protect you from drama and any potential fallout that may ensue if you tell the BS. Their instincts are to protect you over and above any potential damage to some woman (the BS) they don't even know. I get it. And to an extent they are right. It is not your fight, not your problem, not your affair, and if you open that door, you never know what the fallout could be for you. It would be a risk to you and nobody should minimize that. However, I think you should tell her anyway. You are not her husband's OW and you are not trying to hurt her. Herpes is serious business. It presents serious health risks. This isn't about her relationship with her husband or the state or their marriage or your friend's hurt feelings because of whatever happened during the affair. It is about a woman who is unknowingly putting her health (or perhaps her life) at risk because no one will tell her the truth. I am usually NOT a fan of anonymous letters. Generally, I think if you are going to give information be enough of a woman to sign your name to it. However in this case, an anonymous letter is better than nothing. Why don't you send the letter (yes, to her office so her husband won't intercept it) but include enough of the details that she will take it seriously and not dismiss it as some wack job targeting her/him for some reason. The info you said you would not included ; "There would be NO details in the letter like, "I'm friends with a woman who has been engaging in very high risk, unprotected sex with your husband for the past three years. She has just been diagnosed with genital herpes, and your husband has been her only sexual partner for the past two years." I think you should keep in the letter. Because when she gets an anonymous letter the first think she will do is confront her husband. And you know what he will do when he is confronted. Give her enough information to make her think past his denials so she will go get tested. At the same time protect yourself as much as you can from the ensuing drama. Good luck to you, whatever you decide. Edited January 10, 2012 by PhoenixRise
Author Breezy Trousers Posted January 11, 2012 Author Posted January 11, 2012 I wish someone had told me. Someone should tell the wife but I wouldn't send it to her office, that would be horrible to have to deal with in a work setting. I found out "FOR SURE" about my husband when my pap came back abnormal and my OB/GYN who I have been going to since I was 20 years old very gently asked if they should be testing me for STDs. I said no at first and then I replayed in my head and said yes. Results showed I had chlamydia. He's been my only partner for over 18 years and I had nothing when I was first pregnant (last time I had a fully battery of tests) Chlamydia is treatable and I'm okay now but being told I had it was one of the most humiliating and heartbreaking things I've ever dealt with. Thank you for sharing this with me, K. Hearing from a BS who experienced physical damage from a spouse's infidelity is giving me courage. I appreciate knowing you would have liked to have been told because I hate to cause any more pain for this woman, who has already been through a lot in the past. Right now I"m praying about it, asking to do the right thing by everyone involved. Learning you have an abnormal pap smear and chlamydia is a terrible way to discover you've been betrayed by the one person who should have protected you most in an 18-year relationship. I'm glad you were able to be cured, though. I hope your heart has healed, too. Many, many hugs to you! I've worried about sending the letter to work but also worry about sending it to their home. They have two young teenagers. I just don't know ....
Author Breezy Trousers Posted January 11, 2012 Author Posted January 11, 2012 Breezy your friends are trying to protect you from drama and any potential fallout that may ensue if you tell the BS. Their instincts are to protect you over and above any potential damage to some woman (the BS) they don't even know. I get it. And to an extent they are right. It is not your fight, not your problem, not your affair, and if you open that door, you never know what the fallout could be for you. It would be a risk to you and nobody should minimize that. However, I think you should tell her anyway. You are not her husband's OW and you are not trying to hurt her. Herpes is serious business. It presents serious health risks. This isn't about her relationship with her husband or the state or their marriage or your friend's hurt feelings because of whatever happened during the affair. It is about a woman who is unknowingly putting her health (or perhaps her life) at risk because no one will tell her the truth. I am usually NOT a fan of anonymous letters. Generally, I think if you are going to give information be enough of a woman to sign your name to it. However in this case, an anonymous letter is better than nothing. Why don't you send the letter (yes, to her office so her husband won't intercept it) but include enough of the details that she will take it seriously and not dismiss it as some wack job targeting her/him for some reason. The info you said you would not included ; "There would be NO details in the letter like, "I'm friends with a woman who has been engaging in very high risk, unprotected sex with your husband for the past three years. She has just been diagnosed with genital herpes, and your husband has been her only sexual partner for the past two years." I think you should keep in the letter. Because when she gets an anonymous letter the first think she will do is confront her husband. And you know what he will do when he is confronted. Give her enough information to make her think past his denials so she will go get tested. At the same time protect yourself as much as you can from the ensuing drama. Good luck to you, whatever you decide. Thanks a lot, Phoenix. This all helps. My friends also recommended I sign my name to the note and give the woman my phone number; otherwise, she's unlikely to take my note seriously. When I said I wouldn't, my friends urged me to stay out of it..... Without going into too much detail, BS and her WS are close to many people OW-friend and I have been close to for over 15-25 years. Disclosing my identity and telling the complete truth to this woman would involve some fallout for me, but the fallout would be far worse and much broader in scope for my friend, who is a single woman already struggling. I realize my friend made bad choices, but she doesn't deserve any more suffering. She's been through enough humiliation -- both publicly, privately, emotionally and physically -- for the past 3 years. In fact, I haven't even told my friend I might write to this man's wife. Should I discuss this with my friend first and warn her of my intention, however anonymous it is? How would you handle that? (I'm telling you, it's easier to stay out of this, but then I have to live with myself.) I do think BS would take a brief anonymous note to heart. WS lost his last job due to affairs with subordinates. BS knows that and nearly divorced him over it. He's been unable to stop his behavior since while openly terrified of its consequences. My hope is that he will get into Sex Addicts Anonymous and that his family will find healing. I was going to give her the phone number for S.A. and it's supportive 'Ala-Non group and tell her how much it helped me & my husband -- anonymously, of course. Based on what my friend has shared, I believe WS is a good guy caught in a relentless addiction. I suspect he loves his wife despite his behavior. He always refused to discuss his wife with my friend -- certainly never bad-mouthed her to my friend -- and never allowed my friend to get emotionally close to him, telling her from the beginning there would be no emotional intimacy, just sex, between them. I might get flamed for saying this, but I did respect WS for that, even though he was a cheater. He never led my friend on with the usual cake-eater's fake-futuring "we'd be so good together" and "I want to be with you but I'm so confused" or "my wife is evil and you're an angel" manipulative crap .... I know that, as messed up as he is, he's a devoted dad. While I'm not attached to the outcome, I promise you, I don't mean this man any harm. I want only the best for him, his wife and his family. Sometimes crisis can lead to incredible blessings. It has for me, many times. So I'm praying about this, so I can do the right thing by everyone involved ..... I met with a spiritual elder tonight to get input. She told me that we should never legislate for other people what we are unwilling to have legislated for ourselves. In other words, I need to treat this woman the way I would want her to treat me under the same circumstances. For me, that would be honest, gentle disclosure. Now I need to go about that.... quickly ... and in the right way. Thanks so much for helping me on this.
Author Breezy Trousers Posted January 11, 2012 Author Posted January 11, 2012 (edited) @ Lady Gray, blah blah blah blah...Actually, YOU are misinformed... and it is people like you who blow everything out of proportion. I do not have to justify or explain my wealth of knowledge on the topic here. (pretty horrific imagination you have, by the way) Perhaps you should go stand on a street corner and quiz folks as they walk by, asking about their disease status and if they have slept with someone outside their primary relationship... because YOU are so concerned and such a do-gooder busy body, you want to go & tell their significant other! @Breezy Trousers, Again, my point was -- BUTT OUT where you are not invited to put your nose. It will cost a friendship and quite possibly cost you and your family alot more for being a nosey body. Pretty cowardly and sneaky, don't you think, to send a letter? You would be anonymous, too, right? If you are so concerned, go knock on the door and see what happens! The wife probably already knows -- maybe she is the one who gave it to HIM, your friend's MM. Ever think of that? Your friend played and now she is paying. The end. Oh, and again, concentrate on your own life. This is weird codependent behaviour here and exceptionally unhealthy. Thanks for sharing your opinions. You probably would have sided with the neighbors who closed the blinds when Kitty Genovese was getting stabbed, eh? Oh well. Diversity makes the world go round. Edited January 11, 2012 by Breezy Trousers
Dust Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 You should tell her. She might not be infected yet. Although she may be cheating to and in that case maybe she gave it to him. Just tell her we already know this guy is probably sleeping with multiple people. Hookers maybe when he's out of town.
Fabian Montenegro Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Well, you have a wealth of opinions suggesting that you tell, and one telling you to butt out. I'm going to have to agree with informing the BS. Letter sounds good. You are going to have to make it fairly desciptive or else BS might think that it's a prank.
PhoenixRise Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 Thanks a lot, Phoenix. This all helps. My friends also recommended I sign my name to the note and give the woman my phone number; otherwise, she's unlikely to take my note seriously. When I said I wouldn't, my friends urged me to stay out of it..... Without going into too much detail, BS and her WS are close to many people OW-friend and I have been close to for over 15-25 years. Disclosing my identity and telling the complete truth to this woman would involve some fallout for me, but the fallout would be far worse and much broader in scope for my friend, who is a single woman already struggling. I realize my friend made bad choices, but she doesn't deserve any more suffering. She's been through enough humiliation -- both publicly, privately, emotionally and physically -- for the past 3 years. In fact, I haven't even told my friend I might write to this man's wife. Should I discuss this with my friend first and warn her of my intention, however anonymous it is? How would you handle that? (I'm telling you, it's easier to stay out of this, but then I have to live with myself.) I do think BS would take a brief anonymous note to heart. WS lost his last job due to affairs with subordinates. BS knows that and nearly divorced him over it. He's been unable to stop his behavior since while openly terrified of its consequences. My hope is that he will get into Sex Addicts Anonymous and that his family will find healing. I was going to give her the phone number for S.A. and it's supportive 'Ala-Non group and tell her how much it helped me & my husband -- anonymously, of course. Based on what my friend has shared, I believe WS is a good guy caught in a relentless addiction. I suspect he loves his wife despite his behavior. He always refused to discuss his wife with my friend -- certainly never bad-mouthed her to my friend -- and never allowed my friend to get emotionally close to him, telling her from the beginning there would be no emotional intimacy, just sex, between them. I might get flamed for saying this, but I did respect WS for that, even though he was a cheater. He never led my friend on with the usual cake-eater's fake-futuring "we'd be so good together" and "I want to be with you but I'm so confused" or "my wife is evil and you're an angel" manipulative crap .... I know that, as messed up as he is, he's a devoted dad. While I'm not attached to the outcome, I promise you, I don't mean this man any harm. I want only the best for him, his wife and his family. Sometimes crisis can lead to incredible blessings. It has for me, many times. So I'm praying about this, so I can do the right thing by everyone involved ..... I met with a spiritual elder tonight to get input. She told me that we should never legislate for other people what we are unwilling to have legislated for ourselves. In other words, I need to treat this woman the way I would want her to treat me under the same circumstances. For me, that would be honest, gentle disclosure. Now I need to go about that.... quickly ... and in the right way. Thanks so much for helping me on this. Breezy You are in a tough spot. You are trying to balance protecting your friend from further hurt and at the same time trying to do the right thing regarding the BS. It seems to me that you have already made the decision to disclose the STD to the BS. I don't think you should tell your friend until after you have already sent the letter. She is likely to be very much against you telling the BS and will try to talk you out of it. Do you think your friend would tell the MM about the letter if she knows about it in advance? Does this MM even know about the STD? Did your friend tell him? There is no easy way to tell another person that their spouse might have given them an incurable STD. But I get the feeling that you will handle this with as much kindness and grace as possible.
stillafool Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 I'm not really looking for advice here but am just curious: What would you do in my situation? Thanks. I would stay out of it and mind my own business. I guess your friend got what she deserves.
Quiet Storm Posted January 11, 2012 Posted January 11, 2012 I would encourage your friend to tell her. If she doesn't, you could send a letter, but I think you should be up front and give your name and contact info. As for Genital Herpes, it is much more common than many of us think. Per CDC website: http://www.cdc.gov/std/herpes/STDFact-Herpes.htm "Genital HSV-2 infection is more common in women (approximately one out of five women 14 to 49 years of age) than in men (about one out of nine men 14 to 49 years of age)." The wife probably already has it and may be aware. My guess is MM is aware he had it too, and just didn't care that your friend was exposed. Although there are many unsuspecting carriers, I think that a good number of carriers, although not formally diagnosed, are aware that they have it. These days, many people probably get a sore, google it, realize that it's probably herpes, are too embarrased to go to the doctor and don't see the point since there is no cure anyways. So the actual stats are probably too low, since many don't know they have it or are never formally diagnosed. Cheaters are selfish and impulsive. Someone that is lying and cheating on their spouse, is unlikely to warn his OW that he has herpes. His actions show he is not concerned for others. Cheating is all about instant gratification and fantasy, and STD's are too real to discuss. People liek this often live in perpertual denial. They supress bad stuff like herpes and guilt, and focus on fun and excitement.
Author Breezy Trousers Posted January 12, 2012 Author Posted January 12, 2012 (edited) Phoenix, thanks for writing. This has raised lots of ethical issues I've never considered before, so it's been confusing. I appreciate all the time you & everyone else has taken to provide feedback. Cheaters are selfish and impulsive. Someone that is lying and cheating on their spouse, is unlikely to warn his OW that he has herpes. His actions show he is not concerned for others. Cheating is all about instant gratification and fantasy, and STD's are too real to discuss. People like this often live in perpertual denial. They suppress bad stuff like herpes and guilt, and focus on fun and excitement. Very true, QS. I cautioned my friend many times about having protected sex, but she was hesitant to ask MM to practice safe sex because she wanted to please this guy and didn't want to be a killjoy by insisting on a condom. She felt his wife and he weren't having sex, so if she did everything MM wanted, he'd choose her in the end. It's odd that two people who are openly dating usually don't hesitate to get tests done before having sex (well, my husband and I did back in '88) while most WS and their affair partners probably wouldn't dream of it. Taking responsibility would probably suggest too much of a commitment to one another, and affairs are about fun rather than commitment -- and, as you pointed out, QS, instant gratification, excitement and non-reality/fantasy. Well, I got more input tonight. It made sense. I have a friend, a second mother figure, who is astute. She was a BS when I met her in college in the '80's. Her executive (POS) husband had just left her and their four sons for his secretary and her kids. When we met, my friend was back at college, in a daze at 45, trying to reinvent herself as a displaced homemaker. She ended up turning that crisis around. By 2008, an internationally acclaimed university named her Honorary Alumna, and the Smithsonian Institute has invited her to be a guest speaker -- among other achievements too numerous to list here. Her husband leaving her turned out to be an incredible gift. Anyway, I trust her. We discussed. Here's what she said: MM's wife may already have herpes by now .... She also pointed out (as did SoOverIt) that the wife may have contracted it first. I said it was unlikely, and she said I had no way of knowing. Here were her primary points: 1. Anyone who has an affair or enables an affair is demonstrating a lack of integrity. 2. I'm basing my decision to inform BS on hearsay, not actual evidence. I do not have proof my friend has herpes, and I do not have proof she got it from MM. The affair partner is my only source for this information, and, again, affair partners are not usually the most trustworthy individuals. 3. My friend has openly admitted to a risky sex life with other partners outside the affair. It's possible this pattern continued in the past two years but she is omitting certain information in her quest to blame MM. (I argued that the last time she shared details of sex with others was in the summer of 2010, so I have every reason to believe her, but my friend still insisted I can't know every detail of anyone's private sexual history.) 4. As a result of these factors, I cannot know the truth of this situation. Only my friend can know the truth. Consequently, she is the only one who can assume responsibility for telling that truth. It's HER job to talk to BS, not mine ..... When I used the Holocaust & Kitty Genovese argument, my friend countered that those instances were about ignoring actual evidence apparent to bystanders. In this instance, I have no real evidence, just hearsay. Assuming responsibility based on hearsay from a third party --- not to mention a third party who exhibits an ongoing problem with integrity -- is wrong, especially if it will have enormous consequences for another person's life. She lovingly told me to mind my own business. I'm going to talk to my friend tomorrow and encourage her to tell this woman / write a note. Edited January 12, 2012 by Breezy Trousers
seren Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Breezy, I am sure your friend means well, I am also sure that if you spoke to your other friend and told her that she needed to speak with the MM, that he needed to tell his wife he has slept with someone who has Herpes or that someone else would do it for him, he might just do the job himself. Personally, I would find a way of letting her know. I say this because I have Lupus, introducing infection into my body is like putting a wolf amongst a flock of sheep. The STD's, yes multiple, I got from H via his A all but wiped me out. At the time I was also having chemo so when I say it all but wiped me out I do not exagerate. I asked H why the hell he didn't use a condom, his answer, he had been so used to not having to that it never crossed his mind. I didn't as I thought he was faithful, so there you go. I get flares from one of the STD's, have at the moment, my throat and esophagus are blistered to hell and back at the moment, I found out after having to have the roof of my mouth drilled to investigate a persistent ulcer. I wish someone had told me that the OW had STD's, I could have protected myself before it took hold, maybe. It really isn't your place to tell, it is the MM's, failing that, your friend's. BUT, in the absence of those doing the right thing, someone should. Has the BS got a close friend who might be approached? If it were me, I would tell my friend. STD's aren't just an inconvinience or minor thing, for some of us, they can have painful and catastrophic effects. As for those who advise butt out, hmm I wonder if you would feel the same if it were you who was unknowingly putting your life in danger, spitting up blood and pus is so not this season. 1
PhoenixRise Posted January 12, 2012 Posted January 12, 2012 Breezy Do you really think your friend lied to you about having herpes? Really? If your friend has herpes it really doesn't matter if MM gave it to her or if she got it from someone else and exposed him to it. Neither scenario negates the risk to his wife. I will ask again, did your friend tell MM she has herpes? I agree with you that it is your friend's truth and her responsibility to tell. I hope you can convince her to do so. But if she won't, I really hope you will.
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