Cancelling dates over anxiety and depression

[soulm8]

Obviously you need to be attracted to the guy! Let that be your guide

 

just ask the right questions and listen with your ears and not your heart to the answers".

 

Thanks for all the help everyone. I'll get back on the horse in a few weeks. Actually, more like next month -- turning 40 soon is going to be a challenging distraction.

[Lonely Ronin]

Ah, I do get comments on my eyes and smile... and for the most part (online) they're rather raunchy comments. Thank you for the (unraunchy) compliment.

 

Let me pay you another compliment, you look my age or maybe even a little younger, and not the one listed in your profile. So yeah, you should consider younger men, just keep your eye out for the cougar hunters.

 

Even at my age, most of us guys have baggage of one type or another. I've had a few relationships that lasted longer than a presidential term. I've had and an engagement that didn't work, I was fd up for a good year afterwards. I've been cheated on as well, but didn't find out till well after the fact, and that was way back in my late teens.

 

Resentments and misgivings I have are against specific women, not women in general. The only thing that's changed with regards to how I approach women, is the amount of 'chasing' I will do. I must see interest from a women very early on, or I'm done. And by interest I mean if I call to set up a date and get her voicemail I'm only calling back one more time.

 

I consider "aggressive touching" to be when either party is overly touchy feely and doesn't respect personal space boundaries -- there is no waiting for signals or interpretation -- they just go for it and assume that if their touch/advances are rejected or not reciprocated, that you're not interested. That's not always accurate. Some of us are slower to react to touch and to freely touch back.

 

I hear you, I take my personal space seriously as well. You're only aloud in if I say so, and if you cross the line, I sting.

 

When it comes to the passionate side of a relationship, this is more my style, and I bet you're similar.

[Tybalt]

I agree with not listing the dealbreakers on an OLD profile. When I see men's profiles that list their "no's" it makes me think they are focused on the negative, have had bad experiences they haven't necessarily processed in a healthy way, and perhaps they're even close minded in general. There's nothing wrong with identifying what you can and cannot live with in a partner or potential partner, in fact it is vital to do this for yourself.

 

I also second the notion that it is a great idea to ask the questions and really listen for answers to get the information you're seeking, rather than listing out your "no's" in such a manner. That way, you're projecting your positive side and optimism, an exercise that I believe helps attract the very thing you're focused upon, as well as conveying your best self to the potential dating partners. I suppose it would also serve to keep those with nefarious intentions from "hiding" something you wouldn't want to tolerate.

[Scottdmw]

My impression has generally been that sometimes women are a little too quick to take an “amber” flag and back away.

 

Let me share a recent experience I had myself. I had a date set up with a woman from OLD for yesterday. 2.5 hours before the date, I left to do something else planning to go to meet her afterwards at the agreed time. I had given her my cell phone number so she would be able to contact me if she needed to. It turns out she e-mailed me about 2 hours before the time to reconfirm. When I didn't respond (since I wasn't on e-mail) she canceled the date by e-mail. I showed up at the agreed on place and wondered why she wasn't there until I went back home and got her e-mails. It was clear that she was quite angry with me for not replying.

 

I'm sure she must have interpreted my lack of e-mail response as some kind of serious red flag worthy of not dating me, when the reality was I just didn’t happen to be at my computer. In the end I'm not too fussed, I have another meeting with someone else set up for Wednesday, but I wonder how this particular woman is going to do herself.

 

My point is, it seems to me that sometimes women have extremely stringent expectations, expectations which if not met cause them to cancel dates. The fact that few or no men are able to successfully meet these expectations should be evidence that the expectations may be too difficult. You can choose to be extremely picky and often people will support you for it (you go girl), but the reality is that you are choosing to be alone in pursuit of a likely unattainable perfection rather than choosing to try to build a relationship with a real person who has flaws but is available.

 

With OLD, I would encourage you to do the best you can to find the best men AVAILABLE TO YOU and then meet them in person. If you don’t like them after a meeting that’s okay, but at least give the in-person meeting a chance because it’s tough to determine chemistry by email. If you can't find two men per month that you want to meet, the problem may be not with the men, the problem may be that you have expectations that are too difficult to meet for real world men that are actually available to you. You may be sabotaging your own chance of finding someone.

 

Scott

[soulm8]

Resentments and misgivings I have are against specific women, not women in general. The only thing that's changed with regards to how I approach women, is the amount of 'chasing' I will do. I must see interest from a women very early on, or I'm done. And by interest I mean if I call to set up a date and get her voicemail I'm only calling back one more time.

aww Thank you Ronin! You're sweet. I've never taken anyone younger by more than a few years seriously before (in OLD). You've helped me realize I shouldn't be limiting my options so much based on age.

 

Everyone has baggage. It just seems that 40+ divorced men are very bitter and guarded, and rather than learning and moving forward, they tend to casually date and close themselves off to the possibility of love. Like you, I try very hard to keep any negative experiences contained to specific people, not a gender.

 

You are the second man to mention paying careful attention to the interest from a woman. I'd like very much to know (more specifically) how you guage that. I tend to reciprocate interest, contact and enthusiasm to date, when I'm interested in someone. However, in the early stages, especially, I am guilty of seeing if he's actually interested in ME or if he's simply attempting to get out of the house with ANYONE. So, there is a little bit of chasing expected, but I acknowledge and encourage with my timely replies and engaging communication... until I'm sure I want to meet in person. I'm sure this must come across as playing hard to get, now that I think about it. To be clear, I'm not dodging dates though... I simply wait for HIM to ask.

 

When I started dating (again) after my divorce, and having been out of the loop for 14 years -- it was a daunting experience. I met men right away and found they'd push for exclusivity too quickly. I'm not a multi-dater -- I can't multi-task men. So, I started filtering more beforehand to increase my chances of meeting the right man. I need to find my happy medium so that I'm filtering more effectively and more quickly. I know it has a lot to do with the fact that I'm using free OLD. I've paid before and was disappointed with the matches consistently being shorter than myself.

 

This is my style (more or less):

When I see men's profiles that list their "no's" it makes me think they are focused on the negative, have had bad experiences they haven't necessarily processed in a healthy way, and perhaps they're even close minded in general. There's nothing wrong with identifying what you can and cannot live with in a partner or potential partner, in fact it is vital to do this for yourself.

projecting your positive side and optimism, an exercise that I believe helps attract the very thing you're focused upon, as well as conveying your best self to the potential dating partners. I suppose it would also serve to keep those with nefarious intentions from "hiding" something you wouldn't want to tolerate.

Absolutely Tybalt! I've seen those profiles too and you're so spot on. Thank you! May I ask what some of your filtering questions are?

 

My point is, it seems to me that sometimes women have extremely stringent expectations, expectations which if not met cause them to cancel dates. The fact that few or no men are able to successfully meet these expectations should be evidence that the expectations may be too difficult. You can choose to be extremely picky and often people will support you for it (you go girl), but the reality is that you are choosing to be alone in pursuit of a likely unattainable perfection rather than choosing to try to build a relationship with a real person who has flaws but is available.

With OLD, I would encourage you to do the best you can to find the best men AVAILABLE TO YOU and then meet them in person. If you don’t like them after a meeting that’s okay, but at least give the in-person meeting a chance because it’s tough to determine chemistry by email. If you can't find two men per month that you want to meet, the problem may be not with the men, the problem may be that you have expectations that are too difficult to meet for real world men that are actually available to you. You may be sabotaging your own chance of finding someone.

Point taken Scott, and I'm sorry your date cancelled on you like that. I've never been that dramatic or unreasonable. I don't think my expectations are too stringent, but when I do continue my search, I'll definitely keep your points in mind. I do recognize that I have been sabotaging and choosing to staying alone for the most part.

[soulm8]

People need to take responsibility for the people they choose to date. Both men and women meet and fall in love with people that demonstrate red flags, yet continue to date them- then lament that they were duped.

 

Yes, women cheat, men cheat- people need to use their instincts when choosing a worthy partner.

 

Instead of blaming the opposite gender, sometimes we have to look deep within ourselves and figure out why we choose to date the particular people we choose to go out with.

 

take some responsibility for ignoring the red flags, learn from that experience, and be more discerning in whom you choose to date in the future.

 

Beautifully said D-Lish! I'll be heeding this advice as I listen to my D-Lish angel trying to steer me right.

 

Thank you!

[Lonely Ronin]

You are the second man to mention paying careful attention to the interest from a woman. I'd like very much to know (more specifically) how you guage that. I tend to reciprocate interest, contact and enthusiasm to date, when I'm interested in someone. However, in the early stages, especially, I am guilty of seeing if he's actually interested in ME or if he's simply attempting to get out of the house with ANYONE. So, there is a little bit of chasing expected, but I acknowledge and encourage with my timely replies and engaging communication... until I'm sure I want to meet in person. I'm sure this must come across as playing hard to get, now that I think about it. To be clear, I'm not dodging dates though... I simply wait for HIM to ask.

 

I'm not a cold approach type of guy, mostly I've meet women through school or friends/co-workers. I have a happy hour with coworkers example fresh in my mind, so I'll use that. I'm also much better at relating to people and discussing topics through stories, so bear with me.

 

A bunch of us had been out for a few hours, and a co-workers husband showed up with some of his co-workers while I was using the restroom. When I got back to the bar, an attractive woman was sitting in my stool. After a quick introduction, I learned that she was new to the area, so I just kind of stood behind her, and talked with her and my friends in the general vicinity. I wasn't really focusing on her, just trying to keep her in the conversation so she didn't feel left out in the cold (I know how that feels).

 

The conversation wondered over multiple topics, whats been going on in peoples lives, local restaurants, drinks of choice etc. After a while the conversation took an interesting turn. People got into the story telling mode, and a story came out about me that I would have preferred not been shared in front of someone I was interested in. One coworker mentioned that I had gotten the phone number of a waitress from a different bar earlier in the evening. This lead to me getting razzed by pretty much everyone that knows me. I immediately thought to myself, I'm done, it will be cold shoulder the rest of the night. Thankfully after a while, story telling ended.

 

At this point the conversation got around to attraction and she showed herself to be cool in a couple of ways. Her and I razzed a friend that was being puffy chested, by picking out women that looked single and attractive that he should go talk to. This earned her a lot of points in my book, because she freely talked about other women being attractive (I know a lot of women who won't, at least not in front of men). This tells me that she is comfortable with who she is, and her level of attractiveness. This topic doesn't usually come to light in my relationships till much later. I can freely admit that other men are more attractive than me, and I think someone I'm dating should be able to do the same. If I'm dating someone, it's not just because I think they are the hottest woman I can get at the moment, it's because I see them as a potential partner.

 

Next, I think she through me a little test because she briefly discussed that she found a handle full of men in the bar attractive. I asked who and why, and she pointed a few things things out, but not enough to give away her tastes. I kind of took this as a "I know you got a number, but you're not the only guy in the bar" playful jab. Bonus points for her, she can dish it out. This told me two things, one that the saw the number for what it was, the phone number of a woman that I might never see or talk to again, and two that she's not a push over. I can be stubborn at times, and I want someone who can smack me around, and put me in my place when i'm being unreasonable.

 

The real signs of interest from her came out when the stool next to her opened up. I sat down and we started talking more intimately. A big sign, was that when I would talk, she would make strong eye contact with me. basically the entire time I was talking she wouldn't look away. Eye contact of of this type signals strong physical & social attraction to me, and it shows you're listening to what I'm saying. If warranted she asked follow up questions, and that shows she didn't have the theme song to Jeopardy playing in her head when I was talking. Even though we were setting at a bar, she turned to face me. This shows that she is focusing on me, and not just partially paying attention. At Times she would lean in close to hear what I was saying, even though the bar wasn't very loud. When you're routinely close enough to smell my cologne, & I your perfume, I know you're comfortable with me, and with being very physically close to me. Lastly we had some brief physical hand contact while using peanuts & napkins to discuss how to get some place. It wasn't clunky and accidental, or aggressive and direct. It was more like how you might briefly touch someone your very comfortable with while being playful.

 

Apparently it was obvious that we where only focusing on each other, because I got a sarcastic text from a friend the next day about canoodling lol.

[Tybalt]

I don't really keep a "list" of questions exactly. It is more like I am very clear on the values I'm seeking in someone else, and it cues me on what to hone in on. Basically, I try to "filter" more organically. What someone mentions in their own profile is what I start with. For example, if on a profile I see "family is very important to me" I might ask a question about whether their parents live in the area, or how may siblings they have, to get the ball rolling. If they answer "Yes, my parents live here and they are still together, it's great" that gets me going in the direction of understanding something about how they were raised and the kinds of role models for relationships they were exposed to. It also leads me to more questions.

 

I think approaching from the angle of being positive, i.e. what a person DOES like or love, as opposed to focusing on what they don't like, and with an air of genuine curiosity, is more likely to get relaxed answers that reveal more. If the person you are dialoguing with feels you are actually interested in their responses, and not just judging the answers for how they may benefit or impact you, I think it's more of a real conversation that is more enjoyable on both sides.

[soulm8]

she would make strong eye contact with me. If warranted she asked follow up questions, and that shows she didn't have the theme song to Jeopardy playing in her head when I was talking. Even though we were setting at a bar, she turned to face me. This shows that she is focusing on me, and not just partially paying attention. At Times she would lean in close to hear what I was saying, even though the bar wasn't very loud. When you're routinely close enough to smell my cologne, & I your perfume, I know you're comfortable with me, and with being very physically close to me. Lastly we had some brief physical hand contact while using peanuts & napkins to discuss how to get some place. It wasn't clunky and accidental, or aggressive and direct. It was more like how you might briefly touch someone your very comfortable with while being playful.

Apparently it was obvious that we where only focusing on each other, because I got a sarcastic text from a friend the next day about canoodling lol.

Very nice! That sounds like a promising interaction Ronin! I hope you see her again -- she definitely seemed into you.

 

I am comfortable and engaging like that, as long as I am interested and attracted. When you mentioned signs of interest in your earlier post, I thought you were referring to the lead up to a face to face meeting or date. I feel pretty confident with how I handle myself... I just wanted to see if my thinking was in line with what men are typically watching for.

 

I don't really keep a "list" of questions exactly. It is more like I am very clear on the values I'm seeking in someone else, and it cues me on what to hone in on. Basically, I try to "filter" more organically. What someone mentions in their own profile is what I start with. For example, if on a profile I see "family is very important to me" I might ask a question about whether their parents live in the area, or how may siblings they have, to get the ball rolling. If they answer "Yes, my parents live here and they are still together, it's great" that gets me going in the direction of understanding something about how they were raised and the kinds of role models for relationships they were exposed to. It also leads me to more questions.

I think approaching from the angle of being positive, i.e. what a person DOES like or love, as opposed to focusing on what they don't like, and with an air of genuine curiosity, is more likely to get relaxed answers that reveal more. If the person you are dialoguing with feels you are actually interested in their responses, and not just judging the answers for how they may benefit or impact you, I think it's more of a real conversation that is more enjoyable on both sides.

We're very similar in our approach Tybalt! I pretty much go with how things are presented to me as well and just do my best to carefully pay attention to the information shared. Somehow I figured you didn't have a list of questions.

 

I agree with you on focusing on the positives. It's amazing what comes out of some people's mouths as they feel comfortable. Sometimes I've felt like I must come across as a shrink because my dates, can at times, open right up and tell me some not so ... attractive things.

Edited January 10, 2012 by soulm8