Feelsgoodman Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 In my experience, yes, guys will take what you offer on a silver platter, but not because they really liked you, but just because you offered it. Bullsh*t. Would you accept a piece of dog crap if it was offered to you on a silver platter? Unless you really fancied dog crap, you probably wouldn't. Likewise, why would a man accept a woman he was not attracted to simply because she offered herself to him?? That doesn't make any sense.
Nikki Sahagin Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 And what does that prove, exactly? That women shouldn't initiate? I've been with girls where I made the most effort, asked them out, paid for dinner/drinks and it didn't work out. And so has every other man in the world...more than once, I'm sure. Does that mean that men shouldn't initiate either? If neither man nor women were willing to risk rejection and initiate, who would be doing it??? Despite the changing social dynamics of the past 50 years, women are still enjoying an unfair privilege in the dating scene. It is commonly accepted that men are supposed to make the first move. This social convention is not rooted in any kind of solid logic but rather in stupid and outdated stereotypes such as that men are "hunters" who supposedly enjoy the "chase". Of course, this is nothing more than women rationalizing their own advantageous/risk averse position, but somehow men have been fooled into believing that this is the natural state of things. I don't think most men would want a woman to approach them. If a woman approaches a man, most men will think it is a sexual thing, or they'll give her a hard time and assume she goes up to ANY man she likes. Any time I've been upfront with a guy, and this is rare and not necessarily in a crush way, but just in terms of being friendly with a friend of a friend who isn't being social - they ALWAYS, WITHOUT FAIL, think you want to bang them, not that you want to date or see how things go. Not to say women shouldn't initiate, but I just think we have no idea where to start. Women aren't 'trained' how to approach men.
Nikki Sahagin Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Bullsh*t. Would you accept a piece of dog crap if it was offered to you on a silver platter? Unless you really fancied dog crap, you probably wouldn't. Likewise, why would a man accept a woman he was not attracted to simply because she offered herself to him?? That doesn't make any sense. Because if a person wants sex they wont necessarily care how attractive the person is. How else do you account for the fajillions of ugly people on Jeremy Kyle, Jerry Springer or Maury who are constantly getting laid? A lot of people are saying yes to dog crap
phineas Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Yes. I have not and would not pursue, chase, or ask a man out. I don't care about rejection I just think that the man should be the pursuer. I want a man that takes charge and isn't afraid to go after what he wants. Of course I'll give signals to a guy letting him know that I'm interested but I won't pursue. Honestly, why would I? What type of signals?
xxoo Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Yes, I guess I have always expected love to "just happen", and it did. Much sooner than I expected it, in fact. I'd say it "just happened" to my H, too. He wasn't expecting to fall in love with me. It happens ALL the time. People fall in love in the most inconvenient situations (ie: when married to other people ). That doesn't mean that both men and women don't need to put themselves out there, as attractively as possible. Of course love won't "just happen" if you never leave the house. But most people living interesting lives will cross paths and fall in love along the way, without trying, from what I've seen. When the attraction is palpable, it is easy for someone to make the first move.
Feelsgoodman Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 (edited) I don't think most men would want a woman to approach them. If a woman approaches a man, most men will think it is a sexual thing, or they'll give her a hard time and assume she goes up to ANY man she likes. Sorry, but this is total nonsense. You are jumping to a pretty big conclusion without having any facts to back up your claims. Show me proof that most men actually think this way. Any time I've been upfront with a guy, and this is rare and not necessarily in a crush way, but just in terms of being friendly with a friend of a friend who isn't being social - they ALWAYS, WITHOUT FAIL, think you want to bang them, not that you want to date or see how things go. Where are you meeting these guys? A local biker hangout? Seriously, you can't draw such wide-reaching conclusions based on your personal experiences with men in your social circle. Normal men are not going to assume that you want to f*ck them simply because you are being friendly. To think so is not just ridiculous...it's downright sexist. Edited January 6, 2012 by Feelsgoodman
Feelsgoodman Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 So you have many women that are looking for love, and many men that are looking for sex or a casual relationship. I was with you until this line. That's just an age-long, sexist stereotype that is simply not true. There are lots of men out there who are interested in a relationship, just as there are lots of women who are not. Go on a dating website like POF. There are tons female profiles where women explicitly state that they are "looking to date but nothing serious". Please stop using outdated, false stereotypes to paint a picture of supposed female mortal superiority. It's a crock of sh*t and men are finally catching on to that fact.
verhrzn Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Bullsh*t. Would you accept a piece of dog crap if it was offered to you on a silver platter? Unless you really fancied dog crap, you probably wouldn't. Likewise, why would a man accept a woman he was not attracted to simply because she offered herself to him?? That doesn't make any sense. It does if the guy is desperate. And what's that line from Lonely Planet... "and honestly, I'll have sex with a pile of manure." If a guy is desperate, if a guy is lonely, hell, if a guy is bored.... Or if the guy is just using the girl as an ego boost until the one he's actually interested in comes along. Nearly all of the relationship books I've read say over and over again, DO NOT PURSUE. DO NOT PURSUE. It means he's not into you, it means he's using you, it means he won't meet you halfway when the going gets tough. it's really very simple logic: if a guy won't even put himself out there at the beginning of a relationship, when a guy is not only encouraged but nearly forced to put him out there, what are the chances he cares enough about you to make it through the long haul? If a guy can't even be bothered to walk across a room and ask for your number, then is it really plausible he's gonna stick around during those years it takes you to lose your pregnancy fat, those years where your hormones are all over the place and you're so tired from child care you can barely stand? Very good chance... he won't.
Nikki Sahagin Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Sorry, but this is total nonsense. You are jumping to a pretty big conclusion without having any facts to back up your claims. Show me proof that most men actually think this way. Where are you meeting these guys? A local biker hangout? Seriously, you can't draw such wide-reaching conclusions based on your personal experiences with men in your social circle. Normal men are not going to assume that you want to f*ck them simply because you are being friendly. To think so is not just ridiculous...it's downright sexist. I'm saying in my experience. All experience is subjective. In my circle, in my world, that's the way its been so far. So its not a big incentive to be the one to take the initiative. I didn't mean my post to be sexist or offend you or any other man. That's just the reality for me, and I calls it how I sees it.
Feelsgoodman Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 It does if the guy is desperate. And what's that line from Lonely Planet... "and honestly, I'll have sex with a pile of manure." If a guy is desperate, if a guy is lonely, hell, if a guy is bored.... Or if the guy is just using the girl as an ego boost until the one he's actually interested in comes along. So what's your point? If a girl is lonely, desperate, bored or using a guy for an ego boost or a free dinner, she might go on a date with a guy she does not like. Does that mean that guys should not approach women out of fear that might would run into one of those lonely/desperate/bored/ego-maniac/free-dinner-craving women? Yes or No?
Feelsgoodman Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 I'm saying in my experience. All experience is subjective. In my circle, in my world, that's the way its been so far. So its not a big incentive to be the one to take the initiative. I didn't mean my post to be sexist or offend you or any other man. That's just the reality for me, and I calls it how I sees it. Fair enough, as long as you recognize that your experience is not a typical one.
AD1980 Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 If a guy can't even be bothered to walk across a room and ask for your number, then is it really plausible he's gonna stick around during those years it takes you to lose your pregnancy fat, those years where your hormones are all over the place and you're so tired from child care you can barely stand? Very good chance... he won't. Your logic is mind numbing..Some of us are afraid to approach because we're shy and/or have gotten rejected numerous times and are tired of it because our egos have gotten stomped and we feel women aren't attracted to us.. How you correlate a man afraid to approach to some sociopath who wont care about you is beyond me.. Just because a guy approaches you doesn't say anyhting about his integrity or morality..
Feelsgoodman Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Your logic is mind numbing..Some of us are afraid to approach because we're shy and/or have gotten rejected numerous times and are tired of it because our egos have gotten stomped and we feel women aren't attracted to us.. How you correlate a man afraid to approach to some sociopath who wont care about you is beyond me.. Just because a guy approaches you doesn't say anyhting about his integrity or morality.. Some women will go to great lengths to rationalize what they see as their "female entitlements" (such as the right to be approached and not face any risks).
lululucy Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Where are you meeting these guys? A local biker hangout? Seriously, you can't draw such wide-reaching conclusions based on your personal experiences with men in your social circle. Normal men are not going to assume that you want to f*ck them simply because you are being friendly. To think so is not just ridiculous...it's downright sexist. I think a lot of time it's the situation you're meeting guys like this in, absolutely. If I approach a guy at the bar, they'll think I'm in for a good time whereas if I approach a guy at the supermarket, that chance is much slimmer. I wouldn't call d-bags abnormal, though I agree that there are lots of nice guys out there who wouldn't jump to that conclusion. But come on, if a hot girl came up to you and started a conversation out of nowhere, you wouldn't think about sleeping with her? Nearly all of the relationship books I've read say over and over again, DO NOT PURSUE. DO NOT PURSUE. It means he's not into you, it means he's using you, it means he won't meet you halfway when the going gets tough. it's really very simple logic: if a guy won't even put himself out there at the beginning of a relationship, when a guy is not only encouraged but nearly forced to put him out there, what are the chances he cares enough about you to make it through the long haul? If a guy can't even be bothered to walk across a room and ask for your number, then is it really plausible he's gonna stick around during those years it takes you to lose your pregnancy fat, those years where your hormones are all over the place and you're so tired from child care you can barely stand? Very good chance... he won't. Those books are SUCH CRAP. I can't stand that "He's Just Not That Into You" crap. If you play games, you're going to get games played on you. As for the OP, speaking for myself I would say both yes and no. Yes, I expect love to happen -- I don't always know where it's going to come from, but after any relationship ending I have always thought that love will happen for me again. No, I don't just sit around and wait. I don't do all the approaching but I'm more than happy to strike up a conversation or hit on a guy if I want to. I don't play the "wait till he texts" thing (if I like a guy, I just CAN'T. I want to talk to them! Why would I drive myself crazy waiting around?). I don't play it cool, I tell them straight up if I like them or more. Hell, I said I love you to my boyfriend nye. I feel like Emilia and I are from a similar perspective; while I didn't live outside western society, I've always been really independent and I'd say my successful love life speaks well to that tactic.
jobaba Posted January 6, 2012 Posted January 6, 2012 Your logic is mind numbing..Some of us are afraid to approach because we're shy and/or have gotten rejected numerous times and are tired of it because our egos have gotten stomped and we feel women aren't attracted to us.. How you correlate a man afraid to approach to some sociopath who wont care about you is beyond me.. Just because a guy approaches you doesn't say anyhting about his integrity or morality.. So what. Life's tough. Get over it and approach. Those books are SUCH CRAP. I can't stand that "He's Just Not That Into You" crap. If you play games, you're going to get games played on you. THUMBS UP!
allina Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 What type of signals? Smile at him, touch his arm, ask questions and keep the conversation going instead of giving one word answers when he talks to me....
Feelsgoodman Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 I think a lot of time it's the situation you're meeting guys like this in, absolutely. If I approach a guy at the bar, they'll think I'm in for a good time whereas if I approach a guy at the supermarket, that chance is much slimmer. I wouldn't call d-bags abnormal, though I agree that there are lots of nice guys out there who wouldn't jump to that conclusion. But come on, if a hot girl came up to you and started a conversation out of nowhere, you wouldn't think about sleeping with her? Probably not, especially if my mind was preoccupied with other things. The other day, a cute teller at a bank that I go to became overly friendly all of a sudden...asking personal questions and stuff. Admittedly, she was pretty hot; had a nice rack too. Was I thinking about sleeping with her? No, I was thinking of completing my deposit and going back to the office so I could finish working on my client's file and get home at a reasonable hour There's this stereotype of a sex-starved, sexually frustrated man that seems to be prevalent in North America. You have to understand that not every man is like that...
Author kaylan Posted January 7, 2012 Author Posted January 7, 2012 I love how thought provoking my threads are at times Hey Kaylan , I think because all these books etc tell us if a guy does not go after us he is " not that into you " and I am worried that I will always have to do the chasing in the relationship . I have been with guys where I made the most effort , asking them out to go for dinner ( I paid ) and texting them . Didn't work out for me . My ex chased me a bit as it was my first relationship and I was a bit scared . But I did say I love you first and texted him right after he dropped me home on our first date . I do want to find love again but don't want it to happen by looking for it every day . I met each guy by chance when I wasn't bothered . Let's say I liked a guy who is a friend of a friend , I would only go after him and make the first move if I got all the signals that he is attracted to me . I am just too afraid of rejection . I would just wonder if he said yes because he didn't want to hurt my feelings. Trust me, just because sometimes us guys are a little shy to chase, does not mean we never will. Once we see that you are receptive, the chase is on. And you are such a sweetheart for actually taking a guy out and paying. My ex actually took me out a few times when I was out of work during the summer before my junior year. It totally made me more head over heels for her. Guys really appreciate the gesture when it happens. Although I wouldnt let a girl pay for me until weve hung out a few times. Im not immune to societal convention myself. Stop being so afraid of rejection though. Its better to know its not gonna work out than to never know at all. I dont know about other guys, but Im honest with a girl right away about if I see her as just a friend or not. I wont waste her time simply because I am afraid to reject her. Briefly: 1) Some men think less of a woman, or put in less effort, if the woman were to pursue him. Slightly counterintuitive, and very self-sabotaging, but true in many instances. Being the pursuer is associated with aggressiveness and masculinity. As Emilia said, many men find this unattractive. I think you would be quite surprised to know this is hardly true with a lot of guys. If we actually dig the girl, it doesnt matter who initiated things. If she did first then we love that theres less work on both sides and we can go about things mutually. If the guy was hardly into her to begin with then of course he works less. But with a girl hes actually digging, guys love a girl who knows what she wants 2) IMO many women do put in effort - just in different ways. If you look at all the threads in which women complain that they are not getting men, the most common advice given to them is - work harder on your appearance. Whereas the most common advice given to men is to ask more women out. Certainly both of these advice have been proven to work - quantitatively, that is. Women over the years have realized that, based on men's reactions, the best way to get quantitatively more attention from men is to.. look hot, not to ask out lots of men. This results in women putting in, on average, several times more effort and time in their appearance than men do, and in men pursuing more than women do. It's just the way society works.Stupid advice really. Women shouldnt be afraid to go after what they want. They should be in total control of their life. There is not much control in waiting for something to fall in your lap. And as a guy, I hate the "ask out more girls" advice. Personally I dont play the numbers game. I dont think to myself that Im going to ask out 100 girls and that percentages would get me dates. Thats forcing it and the opposite extreme to women who sit and wait all the time. I ask out someone when I like them. I make signals when I dig her, and if shes not feeling it I move on. Im not desperate where I need to ask out everyone in hopes that someone will like me. I actually want to click with someone first on some level before deciding to date them. This is just me though. In my experience, yes, guys will take what you offer on a silver platter, but not because they really liked you, but just because you offered it. And it just won't work in the long run because they were never that interested to begin with, or they would have done something about it themselves. If he's not willing to do the "heavy work" as you put it, he's not interested enough for a relationship to work out even though he'd go on a date if she asked. Women know this and don't waste their time. Instead, they do what women have always done - they meet a guy they like and they flirt and primp and dress up and flirt some more until he notices her...and asks her out if he likes her.It all depends on the guy. Some guys may not have like you that much and not put in effort. Some guys actually really liked you but were gun shy for some reason and will put in the effort to keep you. You wont know unless you actually try. Just because a guy pursues a girl doesnt mean hes super into her either. It always is different. Ive pursued girls in the past who I wasnt super into, just so I could have some fun. Conversely I have had a couple gals pursue me and I ended up being totally into them. Girls act like this doesnt happen to guys all the time where we put in the "heavy work" only to have a girl lose interest late. Guys love to feel wanted as much as women do, so sometimes we sit back and may wait and see who bites. There have been times where I pretty much forced a girl I liked to put herself out there and flat out say we should hang out. Why? Because I got sick of getting signals and even hooking up with girls who ended up not being that much into me. Its all a crap shoot, really. You can never tell how much anyone likes you until you get to know them some. So take control of your life everyone. Dont just sit around. I read your OP twice and I still don't understand it. Whats so hard to understand? Everyone else has got it.
Author kaylan Posted January 7, 2012 Author Posted January 7, 2012 I think in the back of our minds, yes, we tend to. Probably because it's a notion that was engrained in us as little girls and growing up. Also, a lot of the programs girls watched growing up had some version of a "Prince Charming" (Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella...). At some point, as we grow older, we come to realize that that notion is nothing more than a fairytale. Whether we accept it or not though, is a different story. Heehee. These throw backs come from a time when women had less independence. power, and economic potential in society, so obviously men had to be the ones to pursue. Women were the ones being "bought" in those old school times of courtship. The problem today is, that many women are still brainwashed by these throw backs despite how times have changed and how gender roles keep changing.This isnt all women, I know...but its a good amount. Nonetheless, I think women do try to take control of their love life but most of the time it's just in different ways as opposed to how men do it. I've suggested going out with a couple of guys in the past, but there was already some level of rapport established. You won't really find a lot of women who will just randomly go up to a guy she doesn't know and ask him out. Not that there aren't women who have done/do that, but I don't think it's the norm. She'll usually flirt with him and try to send out signals for him to pick-up on/respond to or try to get to know him better. Or, the more direct men will just approach her with or without any of that and at which point she'll either reciprocate, or she won't. I cant complain too much, seeing as half the time I meet a girl I like, she is the one who makes things happen. Which is cool. Like this girl I hooked up with from my summer class...she was the most attractive girl in class to me. I scanned the classroom to see who Id want to talk to during the summer and picked her...however I couldnt get up the nerve to say anything to her After the first week of class she adds me on FB...before we even exchanged hellos in class. So we chit chatted, and she asked me if I liked hiking...and then she said we should take a hike through the forest/mountain area thats right outside of town. We did, and later that night she put the moves on me. So just because a guy doesnt make a move right away does not mean he isnt into a chick. I was def very into her. It just feels nice when a girl shows she wants you, and its less push and pull when shes able to take what she wants. Sexy.
Tybalt Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Interesting. The last guy I dated pursued me strongly and approached me first, basically cold. He then proceeded to go hot and cold over the months we dated and I broke it off with him essentially because I wanted to connect more emotionally and build a relationship, and he wanted to keep it more casual. He always pursued again when I started to detach during his cold behavior periods. I'd much rather date a guy who was shy at first, but was consistent and on the same page with me, obviously. My girlfriend, who is very beautiful, made a comment tonight to me that gave me pause. She said that pretty women can have it hard in the sense that often, the most aggressive pursuers are the player types who aren't going to be as good long term relationship material (if that is what she wants). It seems like there could be some truth to that. Pursuit may equate to genuine interest for some men, but could also be a game for some others. Other men of different personality types may hang back and let the players go for the pretty girl, but it doesn't mean they wouldn't like her or want a chance... They might just get crowded out.
Feelsgoodman Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 My girlfriend, who is very beautiful, made a comment tonight to me that gave me pause. She said that pretty women can have it hard in the sense that often, the most aggressive pursuers are the player types who aren't going to be as good long term relationship material (if that is what she wants). Well DUH....How could something like this give you pause? You'd think this would be common sense..
Tybalt Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Well, common sense isn't always so common, I think many people can agree with that cliche. And clearly, I have things to learn about successful dating etc, or I wouldn't be here, I'd probably be married and not looking on a dating forum for information that I can use to improve my life in this aspect.
musemaj11 Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 Because women are less logical than men. Women cannot tell fantasy from reality. A woman can hate you just because she dreamt of something bad about you.
snug.bunny Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 These throw backs come from a time when women had less independence. power, and economic potential in society, so obviously men had to be the ones to pursue. Women were the ones being "bought" in those old school times of courtship. The problem today is, that many women are still brainwashed by these throw backs despite how times have changed and how gender roles keep changing.This isnt all women, I know...but its a good amount. Very true. But, I also think it is engrained from an early age like I mentioned previously. Also, for example ---> in my family growing up, my mother was subservient. VERY subservient. That is what I observed growing up. And then there are social constraints and all that other bullcr*p. Based on past personal experience dating wise, I found that taking on the more dominant role, proved unsuccessful. When I say "unsuccessful", it is based on a relationship that never materialized. But, I was also with a man who was the pursuer/dominant one, and that was unsuccessful too. Though, the latter progressed into a relationship and lasted several years. I cant complain too much, seeing as half the time I meet a girl I like, she is the one who makes things happen. Which is cool. Like this girl I hooked up with from my summer class...she was the most attractive girl in class to me. I scanned the classroom to see who Id want to talk to during the summer and picked her...however I couldnt get up the nerve to say anything to her After the first week of class she adds me on FB...before we even exchanged hellos in class. So we chit chatted, and she asked me if I liked hiking...and then she said we should take a hike through the forest/mountain area thats right outside of town. We did, and later that night she put the moves on me. So just because a guy doesnt make a move right away does not mean he isnt into a chick. I was def very into her. It just feels nice when a girl shows she wants you, and its less push and pull when shes able to take what she wants. Sexy. Ahhh you lucky guy you. Hey but if you find that way has been more successful for you, then keep at it. It sounds like it was a pleasant experience for you. I think if there seems to be a mutual attraction and the woman likes the guy, she shouldn't NOT approach him just because certain "rules" say not to. But, I do think she needs to think about the type of man that is in front of her as to whether or not he is someone worth investing her emotions into. I think that's one of the key differences between men and women, as I am not sure *most* men go into it with the "is this someone worth investing my emotions into" thought at the forefront of his mind.
laotzu Posted January 7, 2012 Posted January 7, 2012 A girl pursued me pretty heavily, through friends, family, and social media, and I dated her for three and a half years. Frankly, most of the girls I grow tired of are ones that I pickup myself, but perhaps that's because I'm going after girls I know I can easily get, and so therefore aren't that attracted to. I don't know if I'm just not running into single, attractive girls or not, but for the most part I don't feel as though I'm flirted with too often. And I think I'm attractive and successful. So, anyway, in about ten months of being single I've not been pursued much at all, but I've dated a few attractivish women who I quickly grew tired of.
Recommended Posts