Wow, how messed up is she?

[69ways]

So , I broke 43 days NC 2 days b4 Christmas.

 

She did not answer but called back and was speaking for ages, she did not want to put the phone down.

I told her it felt strange not to be with her this holidays, she said she felt the same.

 

We decided to talk on Christmas day.

 

I txt her on the 24th to wish her Merry Christmas and got ignored.

This really got me going and by night I txt her again to say I could not deal with her to play with my hear feelings like this.

 

She replied: Dont be angry with me.Kisses (her name)

have not got kisses from her in a year...

 

Opinions people?

 

 

I replied:

I am not angry , just miss you so much.

 

She replied:

Is not easy for me either and I am not heartless.

 

 

 

So I told her:

If we both feel like this, maybe we should re-consider some things.

 

She never replied and also ignored me the next day with my good morning message.

 

I txt her later on:I am stupid to try and make u feel nice.

 

I decided to give her another chance so over new years eve i txt her the usual that you would write to anyone.

Again I got ignored and this made me so upset, not because I got ignored BUT because of her warm/cold behaviour.

 

I txt her:I am sorry you have become this cold selfish unrecognisable person and will not bother with all these anymore.

 

She has been texting since the following:

You dont know what you are talking about, after all that happened....

 

I got another text and this is the point I got really surprised:

I thought you would be there for me with this, I am shocked you spoke to me this way

 

I replied:

I have but you ignore me, I cant be there if you tread me like this.....

 

 

She suffers from depression and were together 5 years soon to get married.

She always breaks NC and its the first time I did.

She is single but confuses the hell out of me........

She is not the person who plays games.....

[Exit]

She may not be a "game playing person" in your mind, but clearly that's what she's doing right now. What else can you call it when someone ignores you and then comes back around to say something like "I thought you would be there for me". You said it correctly yourself, "how can I be there for you when I'm getting ignored". Besides, how are you supposed to "be there" for someone who just dumped you? Being there for someone is part of what you do in a relationship. If I invited you over to my place right now, ignored the doorbell, and then text you tomorrow asking why the hell you weren't here to hang out with me, wouldn't you think I was playing games?

 

I see some of your other threads are about seeing your ex in pictures with someone else, is this the same ex you're talking about? If so, what exactly do you think you're trying to accomplish with her? Why would she reconcile with you if she's taking pictures with someone else? If she has someone else she now qualifies as an unavailable person -- and chasing unavailable people is something that unhealthy people do. Find yourself someone available.

 

She's in pictures with someone else. She seems to answer texts and calls about casual stuff, until you bring up the topic of working it out, then she ignores you.

 

I can understand that you didn't like what Tara said in her post but she's just trying to give you the tough love that you need. You need to accept that YOU have yourself attached to this string that your ex is dangling you from. It's easy to blame the other person, "she is playing games, why is she doing this, what does this mean", but guess what, you have the power to free yourself from this BS right now. You have the power to stop having your emotions played with, and save your time for someone who is going to be an adult and agree to talk to you like an adult, instead of ignoring you on and off.

 

This is all coming from someone who has made the mistake of chasing exes in the past and putting up with these exact types of games. I let someone do this to me for MONTHS earlier in 2011. It's a brand new year, if you want to start 2012 by wasting weeks and months letting someone torture you like this, you can. Or you can realize that we are only 5 days into this year and you don't want to waste another second of it. I feel like I wasted a big part of 2011 putting up with crap like this from an ex, I hope you won't waste your 2012 like I did.

 

I hope you can find the power to free yourself from this mess. Like the saying goes, take your power back. You don't like how you're being treated? Walk away. Don't let "love" keep you attached, if a friend or some other regular person treated you like dirt, would you keep letting them do it to you? No, you'd walk away. Please try to realize that you're a good person and you deserve to have boundaries that need to be respected too. If someone wants to pick and choose when they're going to answer your calls/texts, forget them. There are plenty of people out there who would be happy to communicate with you.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Exit

[Exit]

One question that I didn't have time to edit into my other post... is this the same ex as all your other threads? The one who left you 9 months ago as of your post in early November, so now 10 going on 11-months?

 

If it is, my god man, you have a very high pain tolerance. I almost lost my mind being messed around for 4 months in 2011. You're heading for a full year of it. Don't waste your life on this crap. Look back at how many days your feelings have been hurt, how many times you've made a text or a call that hasn't gotten a response, how many times she's reached out and you've chosen to talk to her, just to get zero results. Ask yourself how much total energy has gone down the drain in these 10 months. Some day you'll look back and wish you had these 10 months back.

[69ways]

She may not be a "game playing person" in your mind, but clearly that's what she's doing right now. What else can you call it when someone ignores you and then comes back around to say something like "I thought you would be there for me". You said it correctly yourself, "how can I be there for you when I'm getting ignored". Besides, how are you supposed to "be there" for someone who just dumped you? Being there for someone is part of what you do in a relationship. If I invited you over to my place right now, ignored the doorbell, and then text you tomorrow asking why the hell you weren't here to hang out with me, wouldn't you think I was playing games?

 

I see some of your other threads are about seeing your ex in pictures with someone else, is this the same ex you're talking about? If so, what exactly do you think you're trying to accomplish with her? Why would she reconcile with you if she's taking pictures with someone else? If she has someone else she now qualifies as an unavailable person -- and chasing unavailable people is something that unhealthy people do. Find yourself someone available.

 

She's in pictures with someone else. She seems to answer texts and calls about casual stuff, until you bring up the topic of working it out, then she ignores you.

 

I can understand that you didn't like what Tara said in her post but she's just trying to give you the tough love that you need. You need to accept that YOU have yourself attached to this string that your ex is dangling you from. It's easy to blame the other person, "she is playing games, why is she doing this, what does this mean", but guess what, you have the power to free yourself from this BS right now. You have the power to stop having your emotions played with, and save your time for someone who is going to be an adult and agree to talk to you like an adult, instead of ignoring you on and off.

 

This is all coming from someone who has made the mistake of chasing exes in the past and putting up with these exact types of games. I let someone do this to me for MONTHS earlier in 2011. It's a brand new year, if you want to start 2012 by wasting weeks and months letting someone torture you like this, you can. Or you can realize that we are only 5 days into this year and you don't want to waste another second of it. I feel like I wasted a big part of 2011 putting up with crap like this from an ex, I hope you won't waste your 2012 like I did.

 

I hope you can find the power to free yourself from this mess. Like the saying goes, take your power back. You don't like how you're being treated? Walk away. Don't let "love" keep you attached, if a friend or some other regular person treated you like dirt, would you keep letting them do it to you? No, you'd walk away. Please try to realize that you're a good person and you deserve to have boundaries that need to be respected too. If someone wants to pick and choose when they're going to answer your calls/texts, forget them. There are plenty of people out there who would be happy to communicate with you.

I agree with what you wrote but its hard to feel different or this site would have been empty but the photo situation was a misunderstanding....

[69ways]

One question that I didn't have time to edit into my other post... is this the same ex as all your other threads? The one who left you 9 months ago as of your post in early November, so now 10 going on 11-months?

 

If it is, my god man, you have a very high pain tolerance. I almost lost my mind being messed around for 4 months in 2011. You're heading for a full year of it. Don't waste your life on this crap. Look back at how many days your feelings have been hurt, how many times you've made a text or a call that hasn't gotten a response, how many times she's reached out and you've chosen to talk to her, just to get zero results. Ask yourself how much total energy has gone down the drain in these 10 months. Some day you'll look back and wish you had these 10 months back.

 

Yep the same ex, I guess i am one tuff guy or someone who believes in one love and all that, or maybe I am too weak to put her behind....who knows....

yes there are many people out there for us but I worked in bars for 15 years, I never ever met a woman that made me feel this way, so it quite upsetting to let other people influence our lives but she is not the person who if you ignore will go away.

Ok I might be the one to blame to that I am so weak in front of her influence but I guess I truly love her if I still feel like this after a year and I always find excuses for what she is doing......what i can I say....

[69ways]

for emphasis.

 

remember this:

Your happiness is not dependent on the inclusion in your life of a significant other.

Your happiness is not dependent on your getting apologies, explanations, inputs or justifications from those who have hurt you in the past.

 

Your happiness is not dependent on life being great, wonderful, love-drenched and serene.

Because it rarely ever is.

Your happiness is not dependent on being able to help anyone, fix anyone, repair anyone or make them change their pattern of behaviour, because you never can, and you never will.

Your happiness is not dependent on anything outside of yourself.

Any-thing.

 

 

get a grip.

I had to - with no LS to kick me in the behind and help me through it.

all these are relevant .

happiness is a state of mind we experience, we are not always happy but some moments in life.

show me someone who has always been happy

satisfaction and comfort is what we are after.

satisfaction is not happiness

[TaraMaiden]

all these are relevant .

happiness is a state of mind we experience, we are not always happy but some moments in life.

show me someone who has always been happy

satisfaction and comfort is what we are after.

satisfaction is not happiness

 

I'll take this one as you have embellished it....

 

happiness is a state of mind we experience, we are not always happy but some moments in life.

Because happiness is a state of mind, it's a choice. We actively choose the option of either being 'happy' or not.

changing your mind, is an option we all have. Most of us either don't realise it, or refute it as impossible.

which is in and of itself - a choice.

 

show me someone who has always been happy

I would say 'me' since 2002, but you wouldn't believe me....

 

satisfaction and comfort is what we are after.

satisfaction is not happiness

Then what is it?

I am satisfied, comfortable, serene and I have chosen these states - which can be encapsulated within the sentiment of happiness.

[69ways]

This is leading nowhere, not bothered.....

I came here to ask something and its becoming the Millennium Chakra meeting

[PegNosePete]

abuse blah blah blah

You want abuse I'll give you abuse. You are acting totally STUPID. Sometimes people need their butt kicking when they are acting stupid. You broke 43 days of NC for what reason exactly? Well look what happened, it made a bad situation WORSE. Isn't that exactly what ALWAYS happens when you break NC? You knew the rules. So why did you do it? It was a very stupid thing to do and you can't even hold up your hand and say "I messed up". You are the cause of the current situation which could have been totally avoided if you simply stuck to NC, and now you want advice on how to fix it? Well TaraMaiden gave you exactly that, advice on how to fix it: RE-START NC. If you don't like that advice then don't follow it, but not following our advice is what got you where you are now. WE TOLD YOU SO. And if you carry on contacting her we will still be here in a week or a month or a year's time still saying WE TOLD YOU SO. If you don't help yourself then nobody will.

Edited January 5, 2012 by PegNosePete

[69ways]

You want abuse I'll give you abuse. You are acting totally STUPID. Sometimes people need their butt kicking when they are acting stupid. You broke 43 days of NC for what reason exactly? Well look what happened, it made a bad situation WORSE. Isn't that exactly what ALWAYS happens when you break NC? You knew the rules. So why did you do it? It was a very stupid thing to do and you can't even hold up your hand and say "I messed up". You are the cause of the current situation which could have been totally avoided if you simply stuck to NC, and now you want advice on how to fix it? Well TaraMaiden gave you exactly that, advice on how to fix it: RE-START NC. If you don't like that advice then don't follow it, but not following our advice is what got you where you are now. WE TOLD YOU SO. And if you carry on contacting her we will still be here in a week or a month or a year's time still saying WE TOLD YOU SO. If you don't help yourself then nobody will.

 

I broke NC because she said it was an emergency....would you not have replied, at the end she was just not feeling well with her psych.

Thanks, today I have been called stupid as I am acting stupid I must be, abusive...anyone else that did not have sex last night wants to take it out on me...go on... dont be afraid as you are all relationship experts stuck in a failed relationship forum

[PegNosePete]

would you not have replied

No I would not. She is your ex. You are not her emergency contact any more.

 

I know what I am talking about - one of my ex's was committed about a week after we split up.

 

at the end she was just not feeling well with her psych

And that is exactly why I would not have replied. Saw that coming a mile off.

 

dont be afraid as you are all relationship experts stuck in a failed relationship forum

Hi Pot I'm Kettle. So how is YOUR relationship going exactly? Oh yeah - FAILED.

[69ways]

No I would not. She is your ex. You are not her emergency contact any more.

 

I know what I am talking about - one of my ex's was committed about a week after we split up.

 

 

And that is exactly why I would not have replied. Saw that coming a mile off.

 

 

Hi Pot I'm Kettle. So how is YOUR relationship going exactly? Oh yeah - FAILED.

 

Looks like you re a guy with lots of experience, you must be doing something right then.....

[TaraMaiden]

we're doing something right because we've been where you are, saw what a pile of crock we were creating for ourselves, and changed our ways.

Now we're here to try to help those who are still stuck.

 

you don't want to pick it up and run with it?

your problem.

[PegNosePete]

Indeed. You would do well to follow our advice.

[Kamila]

No contact is very hard to do 69ways. I know because I have been doing it for almost a year now. It hurts very much, but I believe that contacting my ex-bf would give me more pain in the long-run. Everyday I fight the urge to contact him. It kills me to know that he has to go on with his life without me. He wanted to stay in contact but I refused, I wanted to detach myself from him. I am ignoring him and he knows that. I never sent him a message: 'I'm doing no contact now'. I just did it. And he got the message through my silence and he's respecting it. And the best way to do that, is going cold turkey.

 

You contacted her, and you got hurt instead, maybe you won't be tempted to contact her again when she asks for your help. You also need protection right now and contacting her isn't doing you any good for the moment. You need time to grieve, to see things into a new perspective. Give yourself time and healing. Believe in yourself.

[69ways]

No contact is very hard to do 69ways. I know because I have been doing it for almost a year now. It hurts very much, but I believe that contacting my ex-bf would give me more pain in the long-run. Everyday I fight the urge to contact him. It kills me to know that he has to go on with his life without me. He wanted to stay in contact but I refused, I wanted to detach myself from him. I am ignoring him and he knows that. I never sent him a message: 'I'm doing no contact now'. I just did it. And he got the message through my silence and he's respecting it. And the best way to do that, is going cold turkey.

 

You contacted her, and you got hurt instead, maybe you won't be tempted to contact her again when she asks for your help. You also need protection right now and contacting her isn't doing you any good for the moment. You need time to grieve, to see things into a new perspective. Give yourself time and healing. Believe in yourself.

most logical and well approached answer

[TaraMaiden]

which is basically everything we said, with Oomph.

But you chose to ignore that.

so we should treat you with kid gloves because you're just making the same mistakes over and over?

We might be harsh, but it takes nothing away from what we say.

 

Even those people who love you the most - Mom and Dad - gave tough love sometimes.

I'm probably old enough to be your mom, and have been round the block a few times, so maybe I'm a bit of a hard nut.

 

But never ever think i don't mean well.

[69ways]

which is basically everything we said, with Oomph.

But you chose to ignore that.

so we should treat you with kid gloves because you're just making the same mistakes over and over?

We might be harsh, but it takes nothing away from what we say.

 

Even those people who love you the most - Mom and Dad - gave tough love sometimes.

I'm probably old enough to be your mom, and have been round the block a few times, so maybe I'm a bit of a hard nut.

 

But never ever think i don't mean well.

 

We should treat you?

who do you thing you are.......

Looks like a couple of you had a skype meeting, weighted out my chances and decided to tread me like that...cool

You must have some boring life.......

 

For a lady that has been around the block a few times,as you nicely have put it, ( I call it the village bicycle), you are sure not in the position to say you care about me like my mother and father.

You PERSONALLY accused me for been the major reason behind my ex's depression , while your m8 said I am stupid.

To me your damaged goods, I guess must for been around the block a few times.....

 

If been there for someone is a mistake, it relevant.

Some women would say:

You were not there for me , so you are not worth it.

While another would say:You are pushy.

 

Every case is different but you act like there is a damn operational procedure handbook that you follow when you have a failed relationship.....

[PegNosePete]

your m8 said I am stupid.

Well, you are stupid. You have started a fight on an internet forum with people who are trying to help you. I would call that pretty stupid.

 

Every case is different

Maybe, but 99% of cases have the same solution. Yours is definitely one of them. NC. It is YOUR breaking of NC that caused your current situation and the best way out of it is to go right into NC again. Properly, this time.

[olivec]

So , I broke 43 days NC 2 days b4 Christmas.

 

She did not answer but called back and was speaking for ages, she did not want to put the phone down.

I told her it felt strange not to be with her this holidays, she said she felt the same.

 

We decided to talk on Christmas day.

 

I txt her on the 24th to wish her Merry Christmas and got ignored.

This really got me going and by night I txt her again to say I could not deal with her to play with my hear feelings like this.

 

She replied: Dont be angry with me.Kisses (her name)

have not got kisses from her in a year...

 

Opinions people?

 

 

I replied:

I am not angry , just miss you so much.

 

She replied:

Is not easy for me either and I am not heartless.

 

 

 

So I told her:

If we both feel like this, maybe we should re-consider some things.

 

She never replied and also ignored me the next day with my good morning message.

 

I txt her later on:I am stupid to try and make u feel nice.

 

I decided to give her another chance so over new years eve i txt her the usual that you would write to anyone.

Again I got ignored and this made me so upset, not because I got ignored BUT because of her warm/cold behaviour.

 

I txt her:I am sorry you have become this cold selfish unrecognisable person and will not bother with all these anymore.

 

She has been texting since the following:

You dont know what you are talking about, after all that happened....

 

I got another text and this is the point I got really surprised:

I thought you would be there for me with this, I am shocked you spoke to me this way

 

I replied:

I have but you ignore me, I cant be there if you tread me like this.....

 

 

She suffers from depression and were together 5 years soon to get married.

She always breaks NC and its the first time I did.

She is single but confuses the hell out of me........

She is not the person who plays games.....

 

First off sorry to hear how she treated you bro. No excuse for that behaviour. Secondly now you know that you cannot contact her anymore because you'll fall back into the same trap over and over again. I did that **** for awhile with my ex until I finally came to my senses. Bottomline you don't need her and shes only gunna drag you down man period!

[Chi townD]

We should treat you?

who do you thing you are.......

Looks like a couple of you had a skype meeting, weighted out my chances and decided to tread me like that...cool

You must have some boring life.......

 

For a lady that has been around the block a few times,as you nicely have put it, ( I call it the village bicycle), you are sure not in the position to say you care about me like my mother and father.

You PERSONALLY accused me for been the major reason behind my ex's depression , while your m8 said I am stupid.

To me your damaged goods, I guess must for been around the block a few times.....

 

If been there for someone is a mistake, it relevant.

Some women would say:

You were not there for me , so you are not worth it.

While another would say:You are pushy.

 

Every case is different but you act like there is a damn operational procedure handbook that you follow when you have a failed relationship.....

 

 

Wow, if this is how you treat people trying to give you advice, no wonder your Ex doesn't want anything to do with you.

 

Dude, apparently you have no idea on how to handle constructive criticism. Here's the deal. Your responded to her e-mails and had a little conversations with her. You fed on her breadcrumbs and all the while, you gave her an Ego boost. You let her know that you're still pining over her. That's all that happened. Time for you to go complete NC and heal. Move on. Enough said.

[wilsonx]

Ok first off, you have no concept of what you are dealing with here.

lets analyze the text from her point of view and not your selfish point of view

 

She replied: Dont be angry with me.Kisses (her name)

Shes telling you not to be angry with her, She did not do anything wrong. She chose not to be in a relationship with you anymore. Thats her choice.

 

She replied:Is not easy for me either and I am not heartless.

Shes telling you it was not and is not an easy choice for her either. It effects her too and it hurts her too but she STILL DOES NOT WANT TO BE IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU

 

 

So I told her:

If we both feel like this, maybe we should re-consider some things.

She never replied and also ignored me the next day with my good morning message.

She doesnt want to be in a relationship with you, thats why she ignored this.

 

I txt her later on:I am stupid to try and make u feel nice.

I decided to give her another chance so over new years eve i txt her the usual that you would write to anyone.

Again I got ignored and this made me so upset, not because I got ignored BUT because of her warm/cold behaviour.

You are being a selfish assclown, she doesnt want want you to make her feel nice, she doesnt want a relationship with you, get the hint

 

 

I txt her:I am sorry you have become this cold selfish unrecognisable person and will not bother with all these anymore.

 

She has been texting since the following:

You dont know what you are talking about, after all that happened....

She's right you dont know what you are talking about, you are blaming her for something she ended the relationship for you for. This proves it

 

 

I got another text and this is the point I got really surprised:

I thought you would be there for me with this, I am shocked you spoke to me this way

Shes telling you you are selfish and you dont support her. She is upset that you spoke to her like this

 

You are blaming her for your actions and your hurt. You chose to break NC you chose to get these answers but you dont even know how to interpret them.

 

Stop focusing on her and focus on yourself, until you learn how to do this and start implementing it, you are not going to ever let go of the hurt anger inside of you until you do so.

 

Your entire focus on her is causing you to miss the big picture. You need to look in the mirror and focus on yourself

 

When you listen to somebody and are trying to understand what they are saying, you need to take your own ego out of the equation and learn to say "OK I UNDERSTAND"

 

Wilsons ultimate truth

"You are your own worst enemy"

Edited January 5, 2012 by wilsonx

[69ways]

Ok first off, you have no concept of what you are dealing with here.

lets analyze the text from her point of view and not your selfish point of view

 

She replied: Dont be angry with me.Kisses (her name)

Shes telling you not to be angry with her, She did not do anything wrong. She chose not to be in a relationship with you anymore. Thats her choice.

 

She replied:Is not easy for me either and I am not heartless.

Shes telling you it was not and is not an easy choice for her either. It effects her too and it hurts her too but she STILL DOES NOT WANT TO BE IN A RELATIONSHIP WITH YOU

 

 

So I told her:

If we both feel like this, maybe we should re-consider some things.

She never replied and also ignored me the next day with my good morning message.

She doesnt want to be in a relationship with you, thats why she ignored this.

 

I txt her later on:I am stupid to try and make u feel nice.

I decided to give her another chance so over new years eve i txt her the usual that you would write to anyone.

Again I got ignored and this made me so upset, not because I got ignored BUT because of her warm/cold behaviour.

You are being a selfish assclown, she doesnt want want you to make her feel nice, she doesnt want a relationship with you, get the hint

 

 

I txt her:I am sorry you have become this cold selfish unrecognisable person and will not bother with all these anymore.

 

She has been texting since the following:

You dont know what you are talking about, after all that happened....

She's right you dont know what you are talking about, you are blaming her for something she ended the relationship for you for. This proves it

 

 

I got another text and this is the point I got really surprised:

I thought you would be there for me with this, I am shocked you spoke to me this way

Shes telling you you are selfish and you dont support her. She is upset that you spoke to her like this

 

You are blaming her for your actions and your hurt. You chose to break NC you chose to get these answers but you dont even know how to interpret them.

 

Stop focusing on her and focus on yourself, until you learn how to do this and start implementing it, you are not going to ever let go of the hurt anger inside of you until you do so.

 

Your entire focus on her is causing you to miss the big picture. You need to look in the mirror and focus on yourself

 

When you listen to somebody and are trying to understand what they are saying, you need to take your own ego out of the equation and learn to say "OK I UNDERSTAND"

 

Wilsons ultimate truth

"You are your own worst enemy"

 

1. did you see me saying to her I want you back?

 

2. Calling her over xmass was her request so ignoring me was something I dont get

 

3. I am an assclown because I know she is sick and tried to make her feel nice?how did come to that conclusion?

 

4. suggested to reconsider things as she said I MISS YOU making me believe she was giving us a chance

5. i have been there for her for a year with therapy and all and her mood swings so i dont take her comment:you are not there for me kindly

 

you see I dont just pick up the phone and fire away to her, a month ago she was panicking if I have a new girl....

The reason I called her and broke NC was again that she said she needed me as it was an emergency...

 

So according to you: she asks me to call I do, I am an assclown

she ignores me after she requests me to call and I get upset she is treading me like that and I am selfish

 

well to me it sounds like anything I do right or wrong, depending how you see it, I ma always wrong

Edited January 5, 2012 by 69ways

[69ways]

Wow, if this is how you treat people trying to give you advice, no wonder your Ex doesn't want anything to do with you.

 

Dude, apparently you have no idea on how to handle constructive criticism. Here's the deal. Your responded to her e-mails and had a little conversations with her. You fed on her breadcrumbs and all the while, you gave her an Ego boost. You let her know that you're still pining over her. That's all that happened. Time for you to go complete NC and heal. Move on. Enough said.

 

what email are you talking about?

did you actually read the thread?

you call constructive criticism a comment that leads to the impression that i caused the girl to have depression?

I call it rude and wring as the user knows nothing about me or the medical history of the person with depression.

[69ways]

First off sorry to hear how she treated you bro. No excuse for that behaviour. Secondly now you know that you cannot contact her anymore because you'll fall back into the same trap over and over again. I did that **** for awhile with my ex until I finally came to my senses. Bottomline you don't need her and shes only gunna drag you down man period!

 

thanks man , at least u understand and you you sympathise not like some crusaders here that know everything