Why do I have to say NO 50 times, and feel like I have to apologize for it?

[BlueHeavens]

Ok, I'm not a prude, but this is really getting to me.

 

I've recently found that when I go on a date, topics that I wouldn't even consider appropriate for a first date or second date are coming up all the time. Sometimes when I'm just trying to kiss someone, in that process of trying to get to know them a little better, I have to be really firm about where their hands are going and what else they are doing. I mean, I'm not a kid, I'm not shy; I just like to get to know someone a little better before I do the horizontal mambo. So last night was the last straw. I said, hey, we're at my limit where I am comfortable with you at this time, and I had to repeatedly say NO, move hands, move hands, and finally get up and walk away from the situation. I have had this happen before, with other people. I am frustrated; why do I have to ever repeat myself? I can tell you that if I thought it was a great idea to stuff my hand down someone's pants on a 2nd date (and apparently try to find their a$@hole!!!) I'd sure be looking at the verbal cues and body language to make sure that was 100% ok with them. Why did I feel like I had to apologize for not wanting to go that far? Have the dating rules and expectations changed that much?

[MsLandon]

I know what you mean. I had one date like that a few years ago. I don't get it. I think that it's reflective of the men, not the times. I've never had to say a word, move hands or anything else to the guy I'm dating now. But we were friends first. Wonder if that inspires respect? Anyway, as you know, it's not your fault. It's their lack of class.

 

I'd probably look at what element these guys have in common...are you meeting them under similar circumstances, same types of places, etc. also, I think that taking time to talk with them on the phone a few times before agreeing to a first date will help you weed out the jerks from the decent guys. If innapropriate behavior comes out on the first - second date, you can believe you'd see much the same in their telephone etiquette and discussions. good luck.

[BlueHeavens]

To me that was the surprising part this time; our first date was really lovely. He opened the doors, had really nice etiquette, walked me to my car, gave me a tiny peck as we left. It was appropriate in my opinion because we had enjoyed a nice evening of conversation, dinner, etc. To discover the octopus the next time I saw him was indeed surprising. In a way, I wonder which is the real him, but one of my friends said that if he hd crossed the comfort zone once, he'd be more likely to do it again.

 

As for a common thread...I've met some of these guys on the internet (various websites for personal ads). I suspect that there are quite a few guys looking for only one thing there...and I was hoping that the technique you suggest--getting to know someone a bit before you hang out with them one on one--might help prevent uncomfortable or dangerous situations. I don't know...but situations like this make me not want to date.

[ContraryMary]

It's my opinion that most guys are just horny by nature and will try to get as far as they can with you. Even if you have told them once, the animal instinct in them will just keep trying. You just have to keep resisting. I don't think it means they're a jerk necessarily or not "worthy". Forgive them their hormones but let them know where you stand about how far you're willing to go. The deciding factor for me is whether or not they're still willing to talk to me and see me, despite my initial resistance. If they fade away cause they'd rather do the hippity-dippity on the first date, good riddance. That's my gauge, anyway.

 

I don't think I've dated a guy who wasn't an octopus at first. I usually just gently put their hands somewhere else and say "Too soon" or "Save some for later!" with a smile. They usually get it.

[BlueHeavens]

well...

 

I hear you, to a point, but...

 

Are we really supposed to believe that we have to accept this form of behavior from a man simply because it is "in his nature"? What century is this?

[ContraryMary]

Are we really supposed to believe that we have to accept this form of behavior from a man simply because it is "in his nature"?

 

No no no, of course not. We just have to be the ones to draw the line for them when their brain fails to keep their libidos in check. It's pretty rare to find a man who won't even try the groping thing right off the bat. They try, we resist, and they can do one of three things: respect the Hands off policy yet stick around, leave in search of a more willing woman, or we have to beat them off with a stick and tell them to get lost. I have no problem telling a guy to get lost.

 

I understand your plight. Men are not all gropers, but unfortunately you may have to go through quite a few gropers before you find someone who will respect your wishes. I still have yet to find one, but hopefully your post will attract some male readers who will try to adjust their behavior accordingly in the future, if any of this rings a bell to them.

[Curt]

Just wanted to add a man's opinion to this. Most decent guys that completely respect a woman's boundaries would not do what your date did, BlueHeavens.

 

You noted:

I had to repeatedly say NO, move hands, move hands, and finally get up and walk away from the situation. I have had this happen before, with other people. I am frustrated; why do I have to ever repeat myself?

 

Truth is, you should never have to repeat yourself in a situation like that. If he was truly attentive to your feelings, he would have stopped point blank, then and there. Sometimes, what a gal is comfortable with can be problematic for a guy to figure out, but when she has given extremely clear signs such as you did, there should be no need to repeat yourself, ever. That you had to walk away from this guy should completely take him out of the "respectful" category, and eliminate him as a future date. (Unless he offers up one hell of an apology, and you are satisfied with same.)

 

Out of raw curiosity, was there alcohol involved in the situation?

 

Not ALL men are this way. Let us not cast all dudes in the same light, based on the disrespectful acts of a few. I wouldn't have gone searchin' for your a$$. I might have found you absolutely drop-dead sexy, but I would not have proceeded to do an OB-GYN/colo-rectal on ya...horny or no.

 

PS: With respect to what MsLandon said, I think all couples should try to know each other as friends first. In and of itself, that means that you are getting to know each other for what lies beneath the surface of each other's bodies. It means you want to know each other as a whole, not just each other's holes.

 

Curt

[BlueHeavens]

Curt,

 

Thanks for throwing in your 2c. I should mention that I am a respectable woman, with a beautiful home, fancy German car which he had seen when he walked me to it, a good career, and generally a nice life. I'm not particularly demanding; maybe that's why I found it particularly unsettling when he didn't treat me with class.

 

Anyhow. I suspect there was alcohol involved. He told me that he had dinner with 2 of his guy friends and 3 pitchers of beer were involved. He didn't appear to be soused but...maybe he was. I know I could never drink that much and not be affected by it. I mean, that seems like an unwise amount to drink, then drive. He's 38, so you'd think maybe his judgement would be different...but like I said, I wouldn't have guessed he had had a drop before he stopped by.

 

It was so freaky. One minute I'm hanging out, balancing my checkbook; the next, he calls, and wants to stop by; then, suddenly, this whole weird situation ensued. I totally felt like I was at the OB...but with my pants ON. Freaky! And unwelcome! IF I decide to see him again, we'll be out in public, not at anyone's house. Certainly I'll have to tell him that for me, the rear is an exit only...ugh!

 

Mary, I do appreciate your insight; I am so glad to hear that your patience with this kind of situation has worked out for you.

[Curt]

This I like:

 

Certainly I'll have to tell him that for me, the rear is an exit only...ugh!

 

HA!

 

This works on SOOO many levels.

 

 

Curt

[ContraryMary]

Don't give up dating, Blue. Don't let guys like this discourage you. As far as internet dating goes, I wouldn't discount that either. Just go public the first few times and try not to let him walk you to your car or somewhere this situation could arise (if at all possible.) Good luck to you.

[clia]

One minute I'm hanging out, balancing my checkbook; the next, he calls, and wants to stop by; then, suddenly, this whole weird situation ensued. I totally felt like I was at the OB...but with my pants ON. Freaky! And unwelcome! IF I decide to see him again, we'll be out in public, not at anyone's house. Certainly I'll have to tell him that for me, the rear is an exit only...ugh!

 

No offense, but allowing him to stop by after only one date was your first mistake. There is no opportunity for the horizontal mambo or the octopus hands if you are only out with him in public (unless he's a real pervo loser!) You've got the right idea--you can't get yourself into these situations early on in dating before you are comfortable if you limit the "stop by/hang out" dates and limit these guys to dinner out. Personally, I don't invite a guy into my apartment for months, usually, nor do I go to his place. It's just not only safer, but I don't get into the making out on the couch position where I might start to feel uncomfortable. Any decent guy is fine with this arrangement.

[BlueHeavens]

You're right. I shouldn't have had him come near the "friendly confines" (can you tell I'm a Cub fan?) until I really knew him better. I know there is a difference between knowing what someone wants you to know, and actually knowing them.