Men have the upper hand in relationships.

[musemaj11]

Men seem to end relationships more than the women do, and the relationship only seems to move forward when the man wants it to.

Men create and end what what they created whenever they want to.

 

The better a man is in starting a relationship with women, the more likely he is to jump from one relationship to another. A good hunter doesnt stop after one catch. Its only natural.

[musemaj11]

I kind of agree with you on that. I think that the issue is that instead of a guy meeting a girl and wanting to get to know her and actively pursuing her for a relationship, a lot of guys are mainly focused on just getting laid that night. If a woman doesn't warm up to the idea they are onto the next girl. So if you are a girl and a guy approaches you and seems like he just wants sex, the idea is that if she turns him down, he will move on and she loses her chance. However, if she agrees to it he will stick around, get to know her more as a person, and might like her enough to actually want to date her. A lot of women have sex before they are ready for this reason.

How is that any different than men who feel pressured to wine and dine a woman they are interested in? If a man doesnt wine and dine a woman, she is going to move onto the next guy and he loses his chance. However, if he agrees to wine and dine her, she might stick around, get to know him more, and might like him enough to actually want to date him. A lot of men throw money at women for this reason.

 

Men deal with gold diggers who want use them for their money, while women deal with players who want to use them for their bodies.

[iris219]

Women are just as responsible for the booty call culture as men are. Also 70% of divorces are initiated by women so it is not men who end most relationships. This is the kind of world that many women say they wanted and now that they have it they are unhappy.

 

I am all for women having sexual freedom but don't blame men when it is not as thrilling or liberating as it is made out to be. Own your own choices.

 

What does this mean really? That women are dissatisfied in their relationships. I know many women (and I’ve done this myself in my last relationship) who jump through hoops trying to get a disconnected man’s attention. We can only take so much apathy and rejection before we have to leave with what little dignity we have left. I know a lot of men who get in relationships and then put forth zero effort while their GF/wife is dying inside and exhausting herself trying everything to make this man notice and appreciate her. This is why many marriages—not necessarily because of cheating or physical abuse. When a woman is attached to a man it’s hard for her detach, even when she isn’t getting anything out of the relationship, but eventually, to save her soul, she will leave.

 

A song that describes my last relationship. My ex wasn’t a gamer, but his attention was always elsewhere while I was by side dying for the scraps of attention he would occasionally throw my way:

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO1OV5B_JDw[/sIZE][/FONT]

[soserious1]

Women are just as responsible for the booty call culture as men are. Also 70% of divorces are initiated by women so it is not men who end most relationships. This is the kind of world that many women say they wanted and now that they have it they are unhappy.

 

I am all for women having sexual freedom but don't blame men when it is not as thrilling or liberating as it is made out to be. Own your own choices.

 

Let me remind you that often the party who files the divorce papers isn't the party responsible for the collapse of the marriage.

 

I filed for divorce, under the 70% stat you've listed I would be the one solely responsible for the collapse that ended my marriage & nothing could be further from the truth.

[Woggle]

I have known many men who thought they had a great marriage when one day out of the blue their wife hits them with a divorce request. I am not in their homes but it seems like these men bent over backwards to make their wives happy but it was never good enough. After seeing stuff like this can you blame a man for just wanting some NSA fun?

 

I really wish more women would understand how much this walkaway wife trend scares the hell out of men in deciding whether or not to marry.

[PJKino]

I have known many men who thought they had a great marriage when one day out of the blue their wife hits them with a divorce request. I am not in their homes but it seems like these men bent over backwards to make their wives happy but it was never good enough. After seeing stuff like this can you blame a man for just wanting some NSA fun?

 

I really wish more women would understand how much this walkaway wife trend scares the hell out of men in deciding whether or not to marry.

 

My friend caught his wife with another man in their bedroom a few months ago.Shes a teacher and is driving an expensive car and has tons of expensive jewelry living beyond her means because of him and she still was ungrateful and has the nerve to blame this all on him

 

Do women ever take responsiblity in a relationship?

[EasyHeart]

Meh. Any effort to generalize at such a broad level is silly. Some men have the upper hand in their relationship, some women have the upper hand in their relationships, and some people have relatively equal hands in their relationships. Rich, handsome, successful men always have (and always will) have their pick of women.

 

I think a more accurate general rule is that the person perceived as more attractive has the upper hand in any relationship. That's why people in happy relationships usually both think they "married up".

[ThaWholigan]

My friend caught his wife with another man in their bedroom a few months ago.Shes a teacher and is driving an expensive car and has tons of expensive jewelry living beyond her means because of him and she still was ungrateful and has the nerve to blame this all on him

 

Do women ever take responsiblity in a relationship?

 

You know, I have a theory about this that is rather controversial. I have been thinking about this a lot as I know lots of guys this has happened to. I would share it but I think I should make another thread rather than hi-jack this one....

[phineas]

My own recent personal experiences have taught me the person who cares the least has the upper hand.

[AD1980]

You know, I have a theory about this that is rather controversial. I have been thinking about this a lot as I know lots of guys this has happened to. I would share it but I think I should make another thread rather than hi-jack this one....

 

Happened to my friend also id like to hear your theory

[thatone]

My friend caught his wife with another man in their bedroom a few months ago.Shes a teacher and is driving an expensive car and has tons of expensive jewelry living beyond her means because of him and she still was ungrateful and has the nerve to blame this all on him

 

Do women ever take responsiblity in a relationship?

 

on their own? no.

[ThaWholigan]

Happened to my friend also id like to hear your theory

 

Well, it relates to how a man behaves in dating/relationship/sex.

 

I warn you though, you'll think I am loopy, I don't even have personal experience to base this theory on, it's just something I happen to believe is true.

[Lonely Ronin]

Well, it relates to how a man behaves in dating/relationship/sex.

 

I warn you though, you'll think I am loopy, I don't even have personal experience to base this theory on, it's just something I happen to believe is true.

 

let's here it.

[Lonely Ronin]

Well, it relates to how a man behaves in dating/relationship/sex.

 

I warn you though, you'll think I am loopy, I don't even have personal experience to base this theory on, it's just something I happen to believe is true.

 

let's hear it.

[SilverLining]

Whoa...Elswyth...not sure why you think I'm upset about a 'booty call culture'. Personally, I don't usually go for them, but to each their own. I tend to lose interest in a guy the minute it becomes clear he's in it for the booty call...which sucks for him if he decides he wants something more. The players at the bar smooth talking women just aren't for me. I'd rather have the tag-along friend who'd really rather be at home watching movies or something.

 

I was really interested in what people though about this article. I do think it has some merit. I also agree that men come under pressure too when they are expected to 'wine and dine' for a girl who they might never see again. So let's just say it's unfair on all ends in some ways.

 

ThaWholigan, I started this thread and hereby give you permission to hijack it to your heart's content.

[Untouchable_Fire]

Well, it relates to how a man behaves in dating/relationship/sex.

I warn you though, you'll think I am loopy, I don't even have personal experience to base this theory on, it's just something I happen to believe is true.

 

If you are going where I think you are going... it deserves a whole new thread.

 

Whoa...Elswyth...not sure why you think I'm upset about a 'booty call culture'. Personally, I don't usually go for them, but to each their own. I tend to lose interest in a guy the minute it becomes clear he's in it for the booty call...which sucks for him if he decides he wants something more. The players at the bar smooth talking women just aren't for me. I'd rather have the tag-along friend who'd really rather be at home watching movies or something.

I was really interested in what people though about this article. I do think it has some merit. I also agree that men come under pressure too when they are expected to 'wine and dine' for a girl who they might never see again. So let's just say it's unfair on all ends in some ways.

ThaWholigan, I started this thread and hereby give you permission to hijack it to your heart's content.

 

Look at it like this... we have lived with a divorce rate that is so damn high that the majority of kids in school come from broken homes. They don't believe in love anymore... not the way we did. To them love=pain... so they don't want to try. Plus their divorced parents only taught them how to cheat and quit when things get tough. They don't have the pattern or the skills to make something work.

 

Just wait until we have had enough time under this situation where 60%+ of college grads are women. They will be competing so damn hard for the 40% of men like me with jobs and degrees that its going to be crazy! I've seen what happens to the guys in dead end jobs/unemployed. Good luck chasing after that.

[fishtaco]

Meh. Any effort to generalize at such a broad level is silly. Some men have the upper hand in their relationship, some women have the upper hand in their relationships, and some people have relatively equal hands in their relationships. Rich, handsome, successful men always have (and always will) have their pick of women.

 

I think a more accurate general rule is that the person perceived as more attractive has the upper hand in any relationship. That's why people in happy relationships usually both think they "married up".

 

This.

 

Thank you UntouchableFire for recognizing where I got the 65% statistics from. But my point, regardless of the percentage, is that it's not only men that are doing this. Men are not the only ones that cheat, men are not the only ones that want NSA sex.

 

Generally the person perceived as more attractive has the upper hand, that is true. I'd like to add that personality also. Some people just have a stronger personality.

[ThaWholigan]

Whoa...Elswyth...not sure why you think I'm upset about a 'booty call culture'. Personally, I don't usually go for them, but to each their own. I tend to lose interest in a guy the minute it becomes clear he's in it for the booty call...which sucks for him if he decides he wants something more. The players at the bar smooth talking women just aren't for me. I'd rather have the tag-along friend who'd really rather be at home watching movies or something.

 

I was really interested in what people though about this article. I do think it has some merit. I also agree that men come under pressure too when they are expected to 'wine and dine' for a girl who they might never see again. So let's just say it's unfair on all ends in some ways.

 

ThaWholigan, I started this thread and hereby give you permission to hijack it to your heart's content.

 

Well.......

 

*this is primarily about men's behavior, we will be ignoring what the women are doing in what I am talking about......**

 

Basically, I think that men very often these days relinquish their own personal authority to the women in their lives, in dating, in sex and in relationships - and it's disappointing to women. We do this at various times, and the more we do it, the more we will have trouble with women. And allowing ourselves to invest so heavily in the negatives of women, we will project that onto the women we date or marry.

 

I see a lot of women behaving badly and if the men don't leave the relationships (and sometimes they do), they do one of 2 things.

 

1) They reluctantly submit to their wives/girlfriends, you know the type: "Yes dear, no dear, 3 bags full dear, it's okay, we can do what you want etc". They secretly hate themselves for it and the women disrespect their men for submitting. Unfulfilled.

 

2) They become confrontational towards everything, allowing their emotions to run riot. This is the other extreme, and one that many men do still take. It's somewhat better than number 1, but still not the most endearing to the women in their lives.

 

A lot of men are doing these two things, and the ones who don't, are the ones that women try to get the most, because they appear to be the most stable, as well as displaying other attractive qualities that men seem to shed at varying points in their interactions with women (from dating, to relationships and even sex).

 

For other men (including myself), this manifests before interactions with women, which is why we never get dates, as women sense that we are not well versed in being able to attract them and conversing with them. Also shows lack of ambition some might say.

 

I'd elaborate more but I will write this a little better in another thread, I need to articulate it a little better, but it is rather controversial, and I doubt that a lot of the guys will agree with me.

[somedude81]

I kind of agree with you on that. I think that the issue is that instead of a guy meeting a girl and wanting to get to know her and actively pursuing her for a relationship, a lot of guys are mainly focused on just getting laid that night. If a woman doesn't warm up to the idea they are onto the next girl. So if you are a girl and a guy approaches you and seems like he just wants sex, the idea is that if she turns him down, he will move on and she loses her chance. However, if she agrees to it he will stick around, get to know her more as a person, and might like her enough to actually want to date her. A lot of women have sex before they are ready for this reason.

What the hell did I just read?

 

Lose the chance? What is this sh*t?!

 

 

 

A lot of women seem to find men to date at work, through friends, or through hobbies and NOT bars because guys doing these other activities are not going there to hook up - the focus is different. Men who go to bars are mostly looking for the hookup. I'm not going to say women are justified because certainly every woman is capable of demanding something better. But it's a two-way street. If the majority of guys weren't just out for sex when they go out, then there wouldn't be as much pressure to provide that or get lost. It sucks because there are some people out there genuinely looking for connection.

I have been trying to meet women through work, friends, hobbies, school, because I am looking for a relationship. But it's not working out.

 

And again here is the nonsense about girls feeling pressure to put out or get lost.

 

Who is pressuring them?

[Dust]

I have been trying to meet women through work, friends, hobbies, school, because I am looking for a relationship. But it's not working out.

 

And again here is the nonsense about girls feeling pressure to put out or get lost.

 

Who is pressuring them?

 

You've been complaining about women. I haven't seen so much trying.

 

Girls do feel presure to put out. You on the other hand wouldn't know that because in all the times you spent a lone with that girl you like including a lone at your place you didn't so much as try to cop a feel or kiss her... So why is it you speak with such authority?

[dasein]

What the hell did I just read?

 

Lose the chance? What is this sh*t?!

 

You are forgetting to insert the implied existential qualifier "top 5% of men be they on my level of value in the dating market or far above it" in front of many female posts here. The other 95% of men don't really qualify as men in any sexual way to a vast majority of women in the U.S. today. Who buys all the celeb tabloids? Who fawns on royal wedding coverage? Who buys all the supernatural creatures fighting over lil ole me trash? Who watches endless volumes of celebrity coverage on television? Does Prince Whoever have the upper hand in his relationships? Does Charlie Sheen? Does George Clooney? Of course they do.

 

It's why silly topics like this thread can even exist. The top 5% men who have the upper hand and the other 95% are apples and oranges, especially in women's eyes. Sure top 5% men have the upper hand in relationships, because all the women are chasing after those few men, sleeping with them with no realistic expectation of anything more. It's a given reality all men have to deal with, and the choice is to either leverage oneself into the top 5% and experience "when it rains it pours," or remain in the other 95% with the harsh realization that the chances of being a woman's first choice, NO MATTER her particular value, what she brings to the table, are slim and none.

 

It's the subtext behind all the many "why won't he commit?" threads here. Would wager that almost all of those threads consist of a very average or mildly above average woman (i.e. not fat) having an expectation of landing the local equivalent of a rock star in his dating pool.

 

That's what women mean when they say "lose her chance." No, they aren't going to admit it, imagine that. LOL.

[somedude81]

And yet despite the fact that women are holding the sexual purse strings, they aren't asking for much in return these days—the market "price" of sex is currently very low.

 

Women control the value of sex, so how could sex supposedly be so worthless? Why get little back from a guy when another would pay your weight in gold?

There are several likely reasons for this. One is the spread of pornography: Since high-speed digital porn gives men additional sexual options

Porn is not a sex replacement. For a second I thought the article was written by a woman because of that line.

 

IMO, the price of sex is low is because women gladly give it up to a certain type of man, while other man couldn't buy it even if he paid in diamonds.

But just as critical is the fact that a significant number of young men are faring rather badly in life, and are thus skewing the dating pool. It's not that the overall gender ratio in this country is out of whack; it's that there's a growing imbalance between the number of successful young women and successful young men. As a result, in many of the places where young people typically meet—on college campuses, in religious congregations, in cities that draw large numbers of twentysomethings—women outnumber men by significant margins. (In one Manhattan ZIP code, for example, women account for 63 percent of 22-year-olds.)

 

If that was the case, their wouldn't be a successful man without a woman. But instead it's the other way around with having unsuccessful men having several women. Who is to blame?

 

he National Longitudinal Study of Adolescent Health data offer other glimpses into just how low the cost of sex is for young men ages 18 through 23. Take the speed with which these men say their romantic relationships become sexual: 36 percent of young men's relationships add sex by the end of the second week of exclusivity; an additional 13 percent do

so

by the end of the first month. A second indicator of cheap sex is the share of young men's sexual relationships—30 percent—that don't involve romance at all: no wooing, no dates, no nothing. Finally, as my colleagues and I discovered in our interviews, striking numbers of young women are participating in unwanted sex—either particular acts they dislike or more frequent intercourse than they'd prefer or mimicking porn (being in a dating relationship is correlated to greater acceptance of and use of porn among women).

Eh, how much time is required to become exclusive?

 

As for the next part, why are women accepting no romance? Do women even care?

 

Meanwhile, Julia, a 21-year-

old

from Arizona who's been in a sexual relationship for two years, is frustrated by her boyfriend's wish to "enjoy the moment and not worry about the future." Michelle, a 20-year-

old

from Colorado, said she is in the same boat: "I had an ex-boyfriend of mine who said that, um, he didn't know if he was ever going to get married because, he said, there's always going to be someone better."

Both women strike me as retarded. Is someone forcing them to chose these men? Are there absolutely no other men to date?

 

IMO, the whole point of the article is that women have nobody but themselves to blame and have lowered their own value.

[MrNate 2.0]

My theory of such drastic competing needs is simple:

 

These were wired in deeply to prevent overpopulation.

[Feelsgoodman]

This has got to be the most absurd, delusional, man-hating article I've ever read.

[phineas]

Well.......

 

*this is primarily about men's behavior, we will be ignoring what the women are doing in what I am talking about......**

 

Basically, I think that men very often these days relinquish their own personal authority to the women in their lives, in dating, in sex and in relationships - and it's disappointing to women. We do this at various times, and the more we do it, the more we will have trouble with women. And allowing ourselves to invest so heavily in the negatives of women, we will project that onto the women we date or marry.

 

I see a lot of women behaving badly and if the men don't leave the relationships (and sometimes they do), they do one of 2 things.

 

1) They reluctantly submit to their wives/girlfriends, you know the type: "Yes dear, no dear, 3 bags full dear, it's okay, we can do what you want etc". They secretly hate themselves for it and the women disrespect their men for submitting. Unfulfilled.

 

2) They become confrontational towards everything, allowing their emotions to run riot. This is the other extreme, and one that many men do still take. It's somewhat better than number 1, but still not the most endearing to the women in their lives.

 

A lot of men are doing these two things, and the ones who don't, are the ones that women try to get the most, because they appear to be the most stable, as well as displaying other attractive qualities that men seem to shed at varying points in their interactions with women (from dating, to relationships and even sex).

 

For other men (including myself), this manifests before interactions with women, which is why we never get dates, as women sense that we are not well versed in being able to attract them and conversing with them. Also shows lack of ambition some might say.

 

I'd elaborate more but I will write this a little better in another thread, I need to articulate it a little better, but it is rather controversial, and I doubt that a lot of the guys will agree with me.

 

I actually agree with you.

I was a "beta" that took a woman's crap & didn't walk when I should have.

Of course I was out of a divorce from a cheating wife.

 

Though she was cheating while on maternity leave with our first baby & we got pregnant 2 months after we were married so I really don't know what happened. I never had time to relinquish anything to her.

 

Over the summer I hit the point where I started walking if a women kept playing games or was disrespectful & it's amazing how some snapped to attention & shaped up.

 

But, it was a constant power struggle & a huge headache & just wasn't worth it.

I mean I already got 2 kids I need to keep in line.

Why do I need a 3rd?

 

also, coincidentally, women who do require men like the one's you described have a history of dating bad-boys that use them for sex then move on.

 

Those guys always have the upper hand in a relationship with these types of women.

 

Hell, they can dump them & circle back months later & just go back to sleeping with them.

 

And the women will go back to complaining about how poorly he treats her. But she won't leave him or cheat on him.