Why does it seem its like theyre's more lonely guys out there then women?

[verhrzn]

If were gonna post these articles vehrzn then hers an article showign how amazingly shallow women can be saying most women would only pick the shorter guy if the taller guy was basically a pedophile

 

 

http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123853&page=2

 

The "experiment" they conducted is in no way scientific. There's no control group, and they don't mention how many women or what demographic the women are from. Are they white? Black? Middle aged? College students? When they say "groups" of women, do they mean 5 women? 10 women? The study is not representative at all.

 

Our chart shows how men have rated women, on a scale from 0 to 5. The curve is symmetric and surprisingly charitable: a woman is as likely to be considered extremely ugly as extremely beautiful, and the majority of women have been rated about “medium.” The chart looks normalized, even though it’s just the unfiltered opinions of our male users.

 

Given the popular wisdom that Hollywood, the Internet, and Photoshop have created unrealistic expectations of how a woman should look, I found the fairness and, well, realism, of this gray arc kind of heartening.

 

As you can see from the gray line, women rate an incredible 80% of guys as worse-looking than medium. Very harsh.

 

end of conversation.

 

It's fun how you didn't read the rest of the study AT ALL. Like, how it doesn't matter if the men were rated as unattractive, they still got messages.

 

And yes, attractive men still get the most messages. NO FREAKING DUH. But the whole "oh women only care ONLY about looks" is still disprove, given the fact that men rated unattractive still get a fair amount of messages.

 

To put it another way, men who are rated unattractive according to the study still get more messages than a woman who is rated as average.

 

But let's get to the real heart of this argument.... why exactly do men get to have preferences (weight, age) and get to message based entirely on looks, but when women do it to a significantly less degree, then WOMEN are the ones who get ripped apart on boards like this? According to you guys, do men get to have all the preferences they want, but women better not have any, and be willing to date whatever comes their way or be labeled shallow, picky manhaters?

[AD1980]

The "experiment" they conducted is in no way scientific. There's no control group, and they don't mention how many women or what demographic the women are from. Are they white? Black? Middle aged? College students? When they say "groups" of women, do they mean 5 women? 10 women? The study is not representative at all.

 

 

 

It's fun how you didn't read the rest of the study AT ALL. Like, how it doesn't matter if the men were rated as unattractive, they still got messages.

 

And yes, attractive men still get the most messages. NO FREAKING DUH. But the whole "oh women only care ONLY about looks" is still disprove, given the fact that men rated unattractive still get a fair amount of messages.

 

To put it another way, men who are rated unattractive according to the study still get more messages than a woman who is rated as average.

 

But let's get to the real heart of this argument.... why exactly do men get to have preferences (weight, age) and get to message based entirely on looks, but when women do it to a significantly less degree, then WOMEN are the ones who get ripped apart on boards like this? According to you guys, do men get to have all the preferences they want, but women better not have any, and be willing to date whatever comes their way or be labeled shallow, picky manhaters?

 

There is no truth that women judge looks to a signficantly less degree then men most people in relationships are pretty evenly matched you make it seem like a bunch of average joes are with models..

[ptp]

 

It's fun how you didn't read the rest of the study AT ALL. Like, how it doesn't matter if the men were rated as unattractive, they still got messages.

 

And yes, attractive men still get the most messages. NO FREAKING DUH. But the whole "oh women only care ONLY about looks" is still disprove, given the fact that men rated unattractive still get a fair amount of messages.

 

To put it another way, men who are rated unattractive according to the study still get more messages than a woman who is rated as average.

 

But let's get to the real heart of this argument.... why exactly do men get to have preferences (weight, age) and get to message based entirely on looks, but when women do it to a significantly less degree, then WOMEN are the ones who get ripped apart on boards like this? According to you guys, do men get to have all the preferences they want, but women better not have any, and be willing to date whatever comes their way or be labeled shallow, picky manhaters?

 

I did read the rest of the story, but when women have such a skewed view of the attractiveness of men; what is considered "average" by a woman is actually above average. When 80% percent of men are below average looking it kind of screws things up.

 

To further illustrate my point:

 

Paradoxically, it seems it’s women, not men, who have unrealistic standards for the “average” member of the opposite sex.

Edited December 30, 2011 by ptp

[verhrzn]

There is no truth that women judge looks to a signficantly less degree then men most people in relationships are pretty evenly matched you make it seem like a bunch of average joes are with models..

 

Here's a fun experiment. Go to google and search "hot girls with ugly guys."

 

First website: http://www.straitpinkie.com/girls/there-is-no-way-top-13-hot-girl-with-ugly-guy-couples/

 

Now, search for "hot guys with ugly girls." There are a couple of advice questions, one or two articles, but after about the first page it switches right back to "hot girl >> ugly guy."

 

So, the hot girl/ugly guy is enough of a phenomenon that people can create tons of articles about it, and yet there isn't even a picture with which to prove there is a hot guy/ugly girl couple in existence.

[verhrzn]

I did read the rest of the story, but when women have such a skewed view of the attractiveness of men; what is considered "average" by a woman is actually above average. When 80% percent of men are below average looking it kind of screws things up.

 

To further illustrate my point:

 

Paradoxically, it seems it’s women, not men, who have unrealistic standards for the “average” member of the opposite sex.

 

Um, if 80% of women consider a guy "average," then who in the world is rating him as "above average"? Other men? So, you're saying women should be adjusting their own standards to account for what other men find attractive?

[AD1980]

Here's a fun experiment. Go to google and search "hot girls with ugly guys."

 

First website: http://www.straitpinkie.com/girls/there-is-no-way-top-13-hot-girl-with-ugly-guy-couples/

 

Now, search for "hot guys with ugly girls." There are a couple of advice questions, one or two articles, but after about the first page it switches right back to "hot girl >> ugly guy."

 

So, the hot girl/ugly guy is enough of a phenomenon that people can create tons of articles about it, and yet there isn't even a picture with which to prove there is a hot guy/ugly girl couple in existence.

 

I can also post short men and find 230230 articles on how unattractive short men are to women anyone can find articles to push their agenda

[verhrzn]

I can also post short men and find 230230 articles on how unattractive short men are to women anyone can find articles to push their agenda

 

If anyone can find articles to push their agenda, then find me an article that displays the top 10 "ugly girl, hot guy" celebrity couples.

 

I am not arguing that women don't have a height preference. I'm saying that you're making it way more of a bigger deal than it actually is.

 

And what's I'm ESPECIALLY arguing is why is it perfectly okay for men to have standards (weight, age, body type), but not women (height)?

[AD1980]

If anyone can find articles to push their agenda, then find me an article that displays the top 10 "ugly girl, hot guy" celebrity couples.

 

I am not arguing that women don't have a height preference. I'm saying that you're making it way more of a bigger deal than it actually is.

 

And what's I'm ESPECIALLY arguing is why is it perfectly okay for men to have standards (weight, age, body type), but not women (height)?

 

Im not saying Men dont have preferences but you're makign a bigger deal of it then it actually is..

 

It is ok for women to have preferences as well you're the one arguing women have little standards physcially when they do just as much as Men..

 

At least women can try to change their weight i cant change my height

 

Beign short for a male is the equivalent of a women having an ugly face

[ptp]

Um, if 80% of women consider a guy "average," then who in the world is rating him as "above average"? Other men? So, you're saying women should be adjusting their own standards to account for what other men find attractive?

 

So what do you think is a more likely explanation?

 

Option A: OKC is filled with unusually high number of ugly dudes?

 

Option B: Women have unrealistic standards for mens' attractiveness?

 

 

It is reasonable to think that if given a large enough sample size, men's attractiveness should follow a normal distribution.

 

Surprise surprise, the opposite certainly is true: when men rate women's attractiveness, it does follow a normal distribution.

 

So like I said before, this point sticks out in my mind as being true :

 

women, not men, who have unrealistic standards for the “average” member of the opposite sex.

[ThaWholigan]

Heights never been an issue. Most short guys I know are insanely good with women (I have already spoken about my 5 foot 6 brother).

 

I probably should not have an issue then as I am 6 foot 3 lol

[verhrzn]

So what do you think is a more likely explanation?

 

Option A: OKC is filled with unusually high number of ugly dudes?

 

Option B: Women have unrealistic standards for mens' attractiveness?

 

 

It is reasonable to think that if given a large enough sample size, men's attractiveness should follow a normal distribution.

 

Surprise surprise, the opposite certainly is true: when men rate women's attractiveness, it does follow a normal distribution.

 

So like I said before, this point sticks out in my mind as being true :

 

women, not men, who have unrealistic standards for the “average” member of the opposite sex.

 

All right, fine, let's go with your "omg women have unrealistic standards of attractiveness!"

 

That'd be a problem IF women put any kind of emphasis on physical attractiveness. But the article demonstrates... they don't really. Unattractive guys still get messaged at a fairly satisfying rate.

 

According to the article, guys don't judge women's looks as "harshly" as women seem to judge men's looks..... but then guys go ahead and ignore the ugly/plain/average girls.

 

So, in the long run, it's better to be an unattractive male on a dating site than an average female, even with how "harshly" women judge looks.

[Lonely Ronin]

Why is that f'ed up??? Isn't that what guys want... for women to not judge them by their height and looks? It just proves that you don't need to be Zac Efron to get dates if you have a fun personality/profile.

 

Why does it have to be judgmental, why can't it be a woman simply showing a man that she finds him attractive in a nice non aggressive way. A simple smile that lasts a little longer than a should, a short polite conversation for no reason etc.

 

I just had a conversation with a friend about this not long ago. I see no middle ground when it comes to women showing attraction towards me. She is either so shy & non direct about it, that I can't pick up on it, or so aggressive and blatantly obvious that a blind person could see it. And now for the rub, I'm usually physically & socially attracted to the first type, and not the second, but since I sense no interest I don't approach.

[PJKino]

If a really unattractive guy approaches me I admit it can be a little insulting. People want to stay within their 'range' of attractiveness. It's like..."Do you REALLY think that you have a chance? Now I have to go through the motions of turning you down which is uncomfortable and just plain sucky, then I have to feel bad for being shallow". Plus some of these guys can be relentless. Now, I completely agree that these guys could be wonderful and in a setting that allows me to get to know them before they ask me out, there's more of a chance that they might not get turned down...but in a bar where it's mostly looks first substance after? No.

 

 

Ive approached women im not that attracted to with that mindset you talked about and got shot down harshly,the idea that unattractive women arent that picky and are just happy to have a guy with good intention approach is bs also..

 

Besides would women really like it if a guy approached them because he thought they werent attractive enough to say no?

 

If im gonna get shot down anyway im gonna do it with women i find attratcive rather then unattractive women looking down on me..

Edited December 30, 2011 by PJKino

[SilverLining]

OMG...AD1980...STOP WHINING!!!!!!

 

Oh, I'm short I'm short I'm short no one will give me a chance...I call BS. Here's what. Maybe the issue is height. Or maybe it's weight, hair loss, an ethnic look, NOT having an ethnic look, looking too smart, looking like a bimbo, looking like a gangster, looking like a prep, having tattoos or piercings, having hair too long/short, having facial hair or no facial hair, being too ripped or not being ripped at all, having no income, having no life, having too much of a life, making too much money, having a disability, having communication issues, being an established cheater, having had a jail stint, having a child, being divorced/widowed, being a smoker, being the wrong religion, not having any religion, substance abuse issues, carrying a dog in a purse, etc etc etc etc etc!

 

Guess what - you AREN'T perfect and you are NEVER going to be perfect! However, you could be GREAT to someone out there. Give up your sucky defeatest b1tchy attitude about women and height because there are PLENTY of women out there who like shorter men. If you have a good personality and are a good person you will attract someone no matter your height. And no, women can't always 'just lose weight' if they are overweight, many struggle with weight all their lives, whether they are too skinny or too big. Some have bodies that just LOOK bigger and some have a lot of muscle mass that make them look bulkier than the average woman too.

 

So you have what you perceive to be an imperfection. Roll with it.

 

Ok now that that's over...

 

I have dated guys who were 6'5'', 6'4'', 6'2''. Wasn't that much of a fan of it. I preferred the shorter guys. I did date someone who was 5'6'', my current bf says he's 5'8'' but I highly doubt that one. Since I'm 5'2'' I don't care that much. As for dating really hot guys, I did date a model and I've dated some very hot men. I prefer the average looking guys. For all the attractive guys I've been out with, no one has ever made me melt like a certain redhead with a lot of hair (except on his head where he was losing it), a belly, and a face that was average at best. In the 4 years since we split up I've never been able to find anyone who came close to that. So, we are who we are, imperfections and all, and we like who we like, imperfections and all. That goes for men and women alike. Can we stop this gender war and just agree that while women can say men are screwy in a lot of ways, men can say just as many things about women?

[SilverLining]

PJKino, read the post I wrote right after that.

[AD1980]

OMG...AD1980...STOP WHINING!!!!!!

 

Oh, I'm short I'm short I'm short no one will give me a chance...I call BS. Here's what. Maybe the issue is height. Or maybe it's weight, hair loss, an ethnic look, NOT having an ethnic look, looking too smart, looking like a bimbo, looking like a gangster, looking like a prep, having tattoos or piercings, having hair too long/short, having facial hair or no facial hair, being too ripped or not being ripped at all, having no income, having no life, having too much of a life, making too much money, having a disability, having communication issues, being an established cheater, having had a jail stint, having a child, being divorced/widowed, being a smoker, being the wrong religion, not having any religion, substance abuse issues, carrying a dog in a purse, etc etc etc etc etc!

 

Guess what - you AREN'T perfect and you are NEVER going to be perfect! However, you could be GREAT to someone out there. Give up your sucky defeatest b1tchy attitude about women and height because there are PLENTY of women out there who like shorter men. If you have a good personality and are a good person you will attract someone no matter your height. And no, women can't always 'just lose weight' if they are overweight, many struggle with weight all their lives, whether they are too skinny or too big. Some have bodies that just LOOK bigger and some have a lot of muscle mass that make them look bulkier than the average woman too.

 

So you have what you perceive to be an imperfection. Roll with it.

 

Ok now that that's over...

 

I have dated guys who were 6'5'', 6'4'', 6'2''. Wasn't that much of a fan of it. I preferred the shorter guys. I did date someone who was 5'6'', my current bf says he's 5'8'' but I highly doubt that one. Since I'm 5'2'' I don't care that much. As for dating really hot guys, I did date a model and I've dated some very hot men. I prefer the average looking guys. For all the attractive guys I've been out with, no one has ever made me melt like a certain redhead with a lot of hair (except on his head where he was losing it), a belly, and a face that was average at best. In the 4 years since we split up I've never been able to find anyone who came close to that. So, we are who we are, imperfections and all, and we like who we like, imperfections and all. That goes for men and women alike. Can we stop this gender war and just agree that while women can say men are screwy in a lot of ways, men can say just as many things about women?

 

The only reason i kept bringing up height is because vehrzn is convinced all men are shallow and just want the hottest women while women aren''t shallow at all and dont care about looks so i reminded her women are shallow as well in their own way..

[AD1980]

OMG...AD1980...STOP WHINING!!!!!!

 

Oh, I'm short I'm short I'm short no one will give me a chance...I call BS. Here's what. Maybe the issue is height. Or maybe it's weight, hair loss, an ethnic look, NOT having an ethnic look, looking too smart, looking like a bimbo, looking like a gangster, looking like a prep, having tattoos or piercings, having

I have dated guys who were 6'5'', 6'4'', 6'2''. Wasn't that much of a fan of it. I preferred the shorter guys. I did date someone who was 5'6'', my current bf says he's 5'8'' but I highly doubt that one. Since I'm 5'2'' I don't care that much. As for dating really hot guys, I did date a model and I've dated some very hot men. I prefer the average looking guys. For all the attractive guys I've been out with, no one has ever made me melt like a certain redhead with a lot of hair (except on his head where he was losing it), a belly, and a face that was average at best. In the 4 years since we split up I've never been able to find anyone who came close to that. So, we are who we are, imperfections and all, and we like who we like, imperfections and all. That goes for men and women alike. Can we stop this gender war and just agree that while women can say men are screwy in a lot of ways, men can say just as many things about women?

 

Weren't you coomplaining that Men look at the same small group of hot women yet you admitted to dating hot model type guys soo how can you say that?

 

How many average looing guys outside of rich ones do you think dated model type women? not many

[SilverLining]

I stand corrected, AD1980. I get really irritated when people focus on one feature to explain why they aren't getting results that they want. I'm sure that you are just completely fine regardless of height.

 

Yes, I have dated a model and some model types. But that was rare, not my cup of tea. I tend to go for a guy who is a bit stocky or average body type, hairy, average height, average looks, kind face. I seem to end up with computer guys a lot. Maybe I just like someone who can fix my computer since I'd be so lost without it!

[somedude81]

Honestly, I just think that there much fewer unhappily single women than there are unhappily single men.

 

Women don't need sex as much as men do. Which means that women can be fine being single. Then they get all their social needs met by their friends. Heck, she can be also stringing along a guy friend, using him as a fake boyfriend who meets all her needs but she doesn't sleep with him because she doesn't need it from him, either she's fine without sex, or getting it from somebody else.

 

Which brings me to my next point. How many girls are actually truly single? Meaning they don't even have some guy as a FWB. Just straight up no sex for months. And out of that many not having sex, how many wish that they were in a relationship?

 

Lastly, any woman who has a FWB and still complains that she can't get into a relationship is an idiot. Yes it's harsh, but it's her fault.

 

Stop giving sex to men who won't commit.

[somedude81]

Ah but PTP, this isn't about 'opportunities' but 'dating'. I agree women have more opportunities but when it comes to actual DATING men have the upper hand. I look at it this way. If 10 men approach you and you like 5, probably 1 of those 10 is actually interested in dating rather than a hookup, and it probably isn't one of the 5 you are actually attracted to. On the other hand, if you are a guy interested in a relationship and approaching 10 women you are attracted to, even if 8 reject you leaving only 2, those 2 are probably interested in dating.

Your mistake is thinking that asking out ten women gives two yeses. It's more along the lines of asking out twenty girls and getting one yes. And even then she might have a poor personality and isn't date-able.

 

Men too have criteria beyond looks.

[Shaun-Dro]

Because it's a lot more easier for a woman to get a man, than it is for a man to get a woman.

 

This statement can only come from someone who knows what's going on.

[SilverLining]

Sorry to burst your bubble there, SD, but women want sex just as much as men do. They have done studies on this. It's more socially acceptable for men to want sex, and they tend to pursue it more, while women are trained to think that casual sex is bad and slutty. This is why it SEEMS like men want to have sex more. Do some women have low sex drives? Sure. I know some men that do as well. Men are not always up for sex every time they can have it.

 

Yeah, women can get sex from a FWB, but that doesn't provide what a woman WANTS - emotional AND sexual intimacy. You can't get that with a friend or family member. Women are the ones who tend to be the LEAST satisfied in a FWB situation.

 

I'd like to know WHY a woman who has a FWB has only herself to blame if she is single. I had one, and I went on many dates as I assume he did. In fact it was a running joke that I'd get single, we'd hook up, then I'd date someone else and he'd whine about wanting to date me (although he never asked me out), then I'd get single again and the whole thing would repeat. It wasn't that satisfying, it was simply a better alternative to ONS or hooking up with friends.

[somedude81]

Sorry to burst your bubble there, SD, but women want sex just as much as men do. They have done studies on this.

Recognize this?

To better understand what's going on, it's worth a crash course in "sexual economics," an approach best articulated by social psychologists Roy Baumeister and Kathleen Vohs. As Baumeister, Vohs, and others have repeatedly shown, on average, men want sex more than women do. Call it sexist, call it whatever you want—the evidence shows it's true.

It's more socially acceptable for men to want sex, and they tend to pursue it more, while women are trained to think that casual sex is bad and slutty. This is why it SEEMS like men want to have sex more. Do some women have low sex drives? Sure. I know some men that do as well. Men are not always up for sex every time they can have it.

I'd believe you if I didn't meet plenty of girls who were fine going without sex. Ask any man going without sex for a few months and he'll tell you he feels like he's dying.

 

I made a thread about that, here

 

On average, I just think that men have higher sex drives than women.

 

Yeah, women can get sex from a FWB, but that doesn't provide what a woman WANTS - emotional AND sexual intimacy. You can't get that with a friend or family member. Women are the ones who tend to be the LEAST satisfied in a FWB situation.

Then why do they do it? I have many ideas why, but I want to see another point of view.

 

I'd like to know WHY a woman who has a FWB has only herself to blame if she is single. I had one, and I went on many dates as I assume he did. In fact it was a running joke that I'd get single, we'd hook up, then I'd date someone else and he'd whine about wanting to date me (although he never asked me out), then I'd get single again and the whole thing would repeat. It wasn't that satisfying, it was simply a better alternative to ONS or hooking up with friends.

Because it's her choice to have sex with a man outside of a relationship.

 

Why did you have sex with him, without dating him?

[ptp]

Sorry to burst your bubble there, SD, but women want sex just as much as men do.

 

That I will agree with...and if it is that time of the month when the hormones are in full force....watchout. All you can do is grab a bottled water on the way to the bed because you know you are going to be dehydrated.

 

The problem is that women women want more commitment and security before jumping into bed....

 

I don't know why....maybe it is because women have so many more options that it is harder to sift through the right/wrong guys? It is difficult for guys to prove themselves and often the girl doesn't even give us the opportunity to prove oursleves. To show, that the guy isan upstanding person who is safe and has genuine interest. However, once a guy can make a girl feel comfortable it is on.

 

I wish there was some way guys could get references like we do for jobs.

You meet a girl...show her references from your exs that say you are decent, aren't crazy or that you are trying to hit it and quit it....it would make things easier.

[ThaWholigan]

On average, I just think that men have higher sex drives than women.

 

Then why do they do it? I have many ideas why, but I want to see another point of view.

QUOTE]

 

Women are capable of higher sex drives than men IMO. I think that a man's sex drive is more explosive, but a woman's sex drive is a slow burn. It's just that it takes a lot more than the physical to truly stimulate a woman's sex drive. You have to attach a lot of substance, the mental/psychological aspect of sex is important in satisfying a woman.

 

So when a man isn't stimulating this in a woman (call it chemistry, call it not being attractive to her at that point), she's going to resist sex. That is the way I understand it anyway. I think women are having more sex these days though as there is no suppression of their sexuality anymore. But while they might be having sex now, their sex lives could be a lot more fulfilling, but it's up to us to stimulate that and understand female sexuality more.