TheFinalWord Posted December 30, 2011 Posted December 30, 2011 A man may follow the traditional courting ritual, do all the things he is "supposed" to do (taking you out on dates, etc.), jump through whatever hoops you choose to put up for him before deciding that you feel "safe" enough...and then you'd end up going out with your friends one night and meet some other guy who doesn't do any of that stuff and instead gets you liquored up and f*cks you the same night. If you are the former guy, it would be very hard not to feel like a chump in a situation like that. haha Well, I've always felt that if a girl does that she has saved me a lot of time by showing me her true colors. Don't get me wrong it is emotionally draining and sucks, but at least I find out after a few months instead of putting a ring on her finger and then finding out. So, I try to see it from that perspective and not assume all women with standards are evil.
Mme. Chaucer Posted December 31, 2011 Posted December 31, 2011 You've just unwittingly provided a great example of the social dynamic that leads men to have such a jaded and negative view of the modern woman. On the one hand, you make yourself out to be some kind of a 'proper' lady with high standards and good morals, who needs time to "feel safe" with a man before having sex. On the other hand, you are clearly not above partaking in drunken debauchery and throwing these high standards and good morals out the window while using alcohol as an excuse. Well, you certainly took what I wrote out of context. I included that to illustrate how my own behavior was not a good experience for me. Also, I was not using alcohol as an "excuse." I happen to be shy, and having some drinks helped me to experiment with NOT having to be a woman who had to take quite a long time to become comfortable enough to have sex at all. Or even make out. Because I felt some social pressure to do so. Not to blame the social pressure OR the booze - it's all on me. My whole point was that I don't think people should do things that they are not comfortable about regarding sex, and if this loses them a potential partner - then so be it. Sex before I felt ready for it was not a good experience FOR ME. I was and am not concerned about making some future guy feel like a "chump" because a different guy didn't have to spend significant time with me before our relationship got sexual. I don't think I am a proper lady or anything like it, either. If you've read many posts I've written, you will see that I have a pretty … checkered past. I've learned a lot from my experiences, and most of it all boils down to one thing : TO THINE OWN SELF BE TRUE I don't think my morals or code of ethics is particularly "high," but I do have one and it's important to me to do my best to live by it. A man may follow the traditional courting ritual, do all the things he is "supposed" to do (taking you out on dates, etc.), jump through whatever hoops you choose to put up for him before deciding that you feel "safe" enough...and then you'd end up going out with your friends one night and meet some other guy who doesn't do any of that stuff and instead gets you liquored up and f*cks you the same night. If you are the former guy, it would be very hard not to feel like a chump in a situation like that. Not me. For the record, the above scenario never happened. If I were dating a guy, I would not go out, get "liquored up" and have sex with some other guy. My sexual experiences that happened without waiting quite a while, and which involved the social lubrication of booze, occurred while I was not dating anyone else.
Els Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 A man may follow the traditional courting ritual, do all the things he is "supposed" to do (taking you out on dates, etc.), jump through whatever hoops you choose to put up for him before deciding that you feel "safe" enough...and then you'd end up going out with your friends one night and meet some other guy who doesn't do any of that stuff and instead gets you liquored up and f*cks you the same night. If you are the former guy, it would be very hard not to feel like a chump in a situation like that. Jeez, what sort of women ARE you asking out?? If a large proportion of women you date are doing this to you, probably high time to reconsider your people-picker.
Emilia Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 I don't think that a woman waiting is indicative of her libido personally, it's just she either wants to wait for her own reasons, or she's not that sexually attracted to you. It's a gamble for most men to stick around and find out, and sometimes it's not worth it. This. Where I think some women get it wrong is where they keep dating a guy even if they are not attracted to him hoping that attraction would come along by some miracle somehow. Surely it's something you know after a couple of dates. If you don't want to get into his pants by then it's best to walk away. Not saying you should get into his pants but you should know by then whether you will. Otherwise it's just stringing him along.
musemaj11 Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 This. Where I think some women get it wrong is where they keep dating a guy even if they are not attracted to him hoping that attraction would come along by some miracle somehow. Surely it's something you know after a couple of dates. If you don't want to get into his pants by then it's best to walk away. Not saying you should get into his pants but you should know by then whether you will. Otherwise it's just stringing him along. Lets get real though, most women who keep on dating a man they are not attracted to is not doing that hoping for the attraction to grow. They are doing that because they have not met the one they are truly attracted to and using the guy as a temporary filler whom she can rely on on a lonely weekend. I grew up with five women in the household. I know the game.
musemaj11 Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 (edited) Meanwhile, guys seem to be thinking that the only way a girl can prove that she really likes him and is not just looking for free dinners or whatever is to hop into bed with him asap. Yet you can't deny that the girl who does just that is frequently judged harshly by guys. We read about that here all the time too. Not every guy, by any means - but plenty do post about how a girl who has sex with them early and easily is deemed "low quality." How can it be resolved? In the countless amount of "Who pays" threads, women keep telling men who fear of taken advantage of for free dinners that sometimes they just have to take the risk. If its so not such a big deal, then why dont women just take the same advice regarding sex? After all plenty of healthy relationships were born out of early sex. I myself have had several one night stands and I could only say that most of the time I did lose interest in the women after the sex but a couple times I actually still had strong feelings for the women after we had sex. I wanted to see them again. I think that was a chemistry or a pheromone thing or whatever. So due to my experience I have the belief that, when the sex happens doesnt matter. If you are meant for each other, whether you have sex after one minute of meeting one another is not going to make a difference. Edited January 3, 2012 by musemaj11
Author samsungxoxo Posted January 3, 2012 Author Posted January 3, 2012 In the countless amount of "Who pays" threads, women keep telling men who fear of taken advantage of for free dinners that sometimes they just have to take the risk. If its so not such a big deal, then why dont women just take the same advice regarding sex? After all plenty of healthy relationships were born out of early sex.Because is not the same. I can lose some money but will always gain it back. Money comes and goes and there is no feeling attached to it. However, if I gave myself up early then I can't reclaim that back since I gave my everything there (myself is my everything IMO, the most intimate I could ever get). To me that is something intimate (deep I would say) and I would really have to literally be crazy about him, not just like him. So that is a big damn deal to me. Even if the relationship in the end didn't work out, at least there was that special bonding and I felt ready at that moment. I myself have had several one night stands and I could only say that most of the time I did lose interest in the women after the sex but a couple times I actually still had strong feelings for the women after we had sex. I wanted to see them again. I think that was a chemistry or a pheromone thing or whatever. So due to my experience I have the belief that, when the sex happens doesnt matter. If you are meant for each other, whether you have sex after one minute of meeting one another is not going to make a difference.Good for you... you have your own lifestyle and obviously according to other posts of yours, you have no interest in commitment nor any future. Ok but that's not what I think. I don't wanna give myself so just he can easily walk away. Again I will not be used. If that means making him wait and he walks away then he can. It means we're not in the same page.
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 In the countless amount of "Who pays" threads, women keep telling men who fear of taken advantage of for free dinners that sometimes they just have to take the risk. If its so not such a big deal, then why dont women just take the same advice regarding sex? I really believe that, regardless of the very vocal handful of fellows like you who pipe up regularly here, the majority of human beings of either gender do not equate the value of a meal in a restaurant with the value of sexual intimacy between people. Unless they are talking about the purchase of sex from a pro.
phineas Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 I really believe that, regardless of the very vocal handful of fellows like you who pipe up regularly here, the majority of human beings of either gender do not equate the value of a meal in a restaurant with the value of sexual intimacy between people. Unless they are talking about the purchase of sex from a pro. What if man & woman go Dutch to the restaurant than partake in mutual masturbation afterword? Seems equitable to me.
silvermercy Posted January 3, 2012 Posted January 3, 2012 What if man & woman go Dutch to the restaurant than partake in mutual masturbation afterword? Seems equitable to me. Together or each in their own respective homes? This changes things. LOL
dasein Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 I really believe that, regardless of the very vocal handful of fellows like you who pipe up regularly here, the majority of human beings of either gender do not equate the value of a meal in a restaurant with the value of sexual intimacy between people. Unless they are talking about the purchase of sex from a pro. Obvious way of trying to overvalue women's primary stock in trade in the dating marketplace while simultaneously downplaying the hypocritical, pervasive expectation that men pay for early dates in a society that is supposedly "equal." Men generally don't sit around and slander women who don't have sex on the first date the way women slander "cheap" men in the local dating pool either, suggesting that men are much more tolerant of not getting what they want from early dating than women are.
DeadHead Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 its been two years with my girlfriend and we both are still virgins, sure we could easily have sex, but we truly love each other and feel if we're going to get married one day, we should wait.
phineas Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Together or each in their own respective homes? This changes things. LOL Good point. If your going to skype it then you just have to pick up in the room the computer is in.
musemaj11 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Because is not the same. I can lose some money but will always gain it back. Money comes and goes and there is no feeling attached to it. However, if I gave myself up early then I can't reclaim that back since I gave my everything there (myself is my everything IMO, the most intimate I could ever get). To me that is something intimate (deep I would say) and I would really have to literally be crazy about him, not just like him. So that is a big damn deal to me. Even if the relationship in the end didn't work out, at least there was that special bonding and I felt ready at that moment. I really believe that, regardless of the very vocal handful of fellows like you who pipe up regularly here, the majority of human beings of either gender do not equate the value of a meal in a restaurant with the value of sexual intimacy between people. Unless they are talking about the purchase of sex from a pro. Yeah you women talk so easy about money because you have never walked in a man's shoe. You have never had to gather your courage to ask out a person you like and spend your hard-earned money on that person in order to impress her for the hope that that person might like you back only to find out that person disappears soon after and you have to repeat the same routine over and over again. Also for most guys, their money doesnt grow on trees. They got the money out of irreplaceable investment of time and effort. The opportunity that they used up to make that money is not going to come back again. Have some respect for men. Just because you value one thing over another, doesnt mean your value is more than the value that others hold. It seems to me, women are indeed a lot more unable to empathize with men than the other way around. Women constantly want to be understood but its very hard for them to understand others. Please get it in your head that men and women view money and sex differently.
Sugarkane Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Way too many guys in society pull a f*ck and run(nail and bail), so it makes sense for women to use counter measures in order to protect themselves. You can't hold that against women, because given the way many men behave it simply makes sense for women to filter out the guys who are merely looking for a quick f*ck. This is completely true in my experience. If you don't "wait", you end up getting "humped and dumped". I've never seen anyone have a fling/ one night stand that went much further. And yet if you give it up too soon, you get labled a slut. Yet the guy also gave in, but doesn't get labled a slut too?
musemaj11 Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 And yet if you give it up too soon, you get labled a slut. Yet the guy also gave in, but doesn't get labled a slut too? Different standards are applied on men and women. A man who doesnt pay on a date is cheap, but a woman who does the same is not.
phineas Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 This is completely true in my experience. If you don't "wait", you end up getting "humped and dumped". I've never seen anyone have a fling/ one night stand that went much further. And yet if you give it up too soon, you get labled a slut. Yet the guy also gave in, but doesn't get labled a slut too? Ya know what? Many women go through life sleeping with guys early & have long relationships with them. I know so many women that only get the pump and dump or have a new BF every 6 months because she got dumped or cheated on. Guess what? It's because they only date player's & guys that just want to have fun & try to turn them into BF's. They ignore decent guys who actually want a relationship because their not attracted to them. If every guy you date just wants sex it's because YOU are picking them. I can recognize a woman attracted to player types because they always play the victim card & talk about how all her ex's were jerks that cheated on her or dumped her after a few months. I can promise they don't tell me about the booty-calls they have gone on or the one-night stands. However they will tell me about guys they dated that went poof then called them up months later & they went out with him (and had sex) just for him to poof again. I can promise you have turned down or FZ'd guys that wouldn't use you for sex & actually want a relationship with you because they wern't the player type you find exciting.
thatone Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 It's a vicious cycle. Guys like you seem to be in fear of being taken advantage of. Many of the hesitant girls are hesitant because they are afraid of being taken advantage of. thatone, I don't wish to argue with you, or to get into any kind of gender conflict thing, but honestly look at the frequency with which guys post here about their "game" and how they need help deceiving girls into being reliable sources for "banging" and / or "punani." And of course there are massive Internet resources for sharing ways to fool girls into thinking guys like them. Girls are reading this. Of course, they are going to become even more leery of believing that a guy who is sexually interested in them, and who is in a hurry about it, is interested in more about them than their vagina. They are looking for "proof" of it. Willingness to wait, or even to spend money might be valid proof for certain women / girls. Meanwhile, guys seem to be thinking that the only way a girl can prove that she really likes him and is not just looking for free dinners or whatever is to hop into bed with him asap. Yet you can't deny that the girl who does just that is frequently judged harshly by guys. We read about that here all the time too. Not every guy, by any means - but plenty do post about how a girl who has sex with them early and easily is deemed "low quality." How can it be resolved? well i'm not 19 anymore. past 35 everyone has had some relationships, some flings, some one night stands, some good choices, and some bad choices. as others are saying, men and women are just different. we don't get attached to women by sex. the 'relationship candidates' are those that match on other factors for me. personality, intelligence, lifestyle, etc. unless the sex is terrible for some reason it's not going to make or break the odds of us staying together long term.
jobaba Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) proceeding towards intimacy (mainly sex) esp during a relationship? I must say I'm very slow at this and there has to be more than just liking him on my part. If it works out, it can take about 4 months (if not, a bit more) but till then he won't get nothing beyong making-out. That's just me. I don't think 1 month (like shown in movies) is enough time. But I'm getting the feeling some are impatient and would expect me to already be ready by then. I like taking my time, not being rushed. If I knew she liked me, and there was other physical (kissing and such) I could wait a pretty damn long time. I just need to know that she likes me and is attracted to me. Sex is overrated. That said, I've never had to wait more than two months with any girl I was dating. Edited January 4, 2012 by jobaba
blueskyday Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Yes, if you are going to make a man wait (which I do until it's right), then you have to let him know he's in the game. He has to know you are hot for him. Kiss him, slap his butt, eye his package while smiling. Saying you can't wait to get him naked soon. That kind of stuff.
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 Yes, if you are going to make a man wait (which I do until it's right), then you have to let him know he's in the game. He has to know you are hot for him. Kiss him, slap his butt, eye his package while smiling. Saying you can't wait to get him naked soon. That kind of stuff. I don't disagree with you … but a person who is hesitant and needs a long time because of being shy or insecure probably isn't the person who will be able to do that! Hey! I am NOT saying that any guy needs to wait a long time to have sex with any girl! I am NOT saying that any guy EVER needs to pay for ANYTHING for any girl! I AM saying that some people have a NEED to know someone a long time before they are able to be comfortable enough to have sex. Some even need to wait until they are married. And, yes, some need to have old fashioned "proof" of serious intent like traditional dates, paid for by the guy. If that's what you need, then that's what you need. There are like minded people of the opposite sex out there, believe me. You don't need to throw yourself under a bus because you happen to read posts from men who believe that money spent is in effect buying sex. Same goes in reverse - NO guy has to spend money on dating if he does not believe in it, just because there have been traditional societal pressures to do so. If you only want to pay for a date after you are having regular sex with a girl, that is not a problem. If you ALWAYS want to go dutch, that is not a problem, and if you require that a woman pay for everything for you, that isn't a problem either, AS LONG AS YOU FIND PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE SAME PROGRAM WITH YOU. Trying to "force" others to conform to your beliefs in these ways is wrong, and so is going belly-up on your own beliefs in order to be a people pleaser.
thatone Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 (edited) I don't disagree with you … but a person who is hesitant and needs a long time because of being shy or insecure probably isn't the person who will be able to do that! Hey! I am NOT saying that any guy needs to wait a long time to have sex with any girl! I am NOT saying that any guy EVER needs to pay for ANYTHING for any girl! I AM saying that some people have a NEED to know someone a long time before they are able to be comfortable enough to have sex. Some even need to wait until they are married. And, yes, some need to have old fashioned "proof" of serious intent like traditional dates, paid for by the guy. If that's what you need, then that's what you need. There are like minded people of the opposite sex out there, believe me. You don't need to throw yourself under a bus because you happen to read posts from men who believe that money spent is in effect buying sex. Same goes in reverse - NO guy has to spend money on dating if he does not believe in it, just because there have been traditional societal pressures to do so. If you only want to pay for a date after you are having regular sex with a girl, that is not a problem. If you ALWAYS want to go dutch, that is not a problem, and if you require that a woman pay for everything for you, that isn't a problem either, AS LONG AS YOU FIND PEOPLE WHO ARE ON THE SAME PROGRAM WITH YOU. Trying to "force" others to conform to your beliefs in these ways is wrong, and so is going belly-up on your own beliefs in order to be a people pleaser. the bolded part is what i was getting at. i'm not into shy and insecure. because i'm not shy or insecure. so back to my point, that's the only way men know how. women know what men want, and men know what women want. women respond to male attention, so if you're not getting any sort of positive reinforcement the male instinct is to take the attention away and see what the response is. if we are getting positive reinforcement then the rules change. in a round about way i suppose that's why the shy/insecure women wind up single for extended lengths of time if they can't get over their insecurity, and that's how men wind up with strings of psycho exes if they can't see the ones who respond to indifference for what they are (attention whores). but there's no other way so it is what it is. Edited January 4, 2012 by thatone
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 I'd like to add to my previous post: Even though I strongly believe in "to thine own self be true," I also think that it's healthy and productive for people to examine their own belief systems with an open mind. Just because a person has been "trained" since childhood to believe that they must wait until marriage to have sex, or that a man who values them will definitely spend much money on them and lavish them with gifts, or that a woman who does not have sex after receiving a certain amount of gifts or dinners is "using" a man, does not necessarily mean that the person has to embrace such ideas as their core beliefs for their lifetime. But, flipping on such things because of someone ELSE'S belief system is a road to misery.
thatone Posted January 4, 2012 Posted January 4, 2012 I'd like to add to my previous post: Even though I strongly believe in "to thine own self be true," I also think that it's healthy and productive for people to examine their own belief systems with an open mind. Just because a person has been "trained" since childhood to believe that they must wait until marriage to have sex, or that a man who values them will definitely spend much money on them and lavish them with gifts, or that a woman who does not have sex after receiving a certain amount of gifts or dinners is "using" a man, does not necessarily mean that the person has to embrace such ideas as their core beliefs for their lifetime. But, flipping on such things because of someone ELSE'S belief system is a road to misery. i agree completely with that. other people don't make my rules. sadly most people don't know how to live without someone telling them what to do.
Author samsungxoxo Posted January 4, 2012 Author Posted January 4, 2012 Yeah you women talk so easy about money because you have never walked in a man's shoe. You have never had to gather your courage to ask out a person you like and spend your hard-earned money on that person in order to impress her for the hope that that person might like you back only to find out that person disappears soon after and you have to repeat the same routine over and over again..And you talk so easy about how a woman should jump into bed right away. Suppose the woman does likes you and puts out very fast (in your timeframe you expected) but for some reason it doesn't work out, you dumped her and within a short time already bang another woman. You have no idea what's that like to us. To me that would be getting used. Not wrong with protecting myself over that. Distrustful? Maybe but why not if I don't know him well and during that time it's not even a bf and gf statuts at least. I do have respect for men but not when some of you expect us to put out in one month or less as shown in Hollywood movies. How about she doesn't disappear, is interested, not dating anyone else but just isn't into having sex too soon?
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