How many men would actually wait months before....

[thatone]

Please see Untouchable Fire's response above, which I agree with. You just gave a total opposite definition. Now who is right then? I think I'll go with Fire on this one.

 

his response sounds great to you, i'm sure. it would give you the relationship situation you want without any sort of commitment on your part. as soon as the slightest bit of frustration or boredom arises you can simply walk away to the next man who's willing to wine and dine you for another few months, and of course, blame it on the man across the table from you on your way out the door because he failed to pass your 4 to 6 month long test, that's another common thread with such women.

 

and women complain that men are commitment phobes...

 

did you ever stop to think that precisely what i said....damaged, distrustful, indecisive, and selfish women just aren't that fun to be around, is pretty accurate and that's why those women are single?

 

but let me guess, it's not that, it's because "there are just no good men left" right?

Edited December 30, 2011 by thatone

[silvermercy]

his response sounds great to you, i'm sure. it would give you the relationship situation you want without any sort of commitment on your part. as soon as the slightest bit of frustration or boredom arises you can simply walk away to the next man who's willing to wine and dine you for another few months, and of course, blame it on the man across the table from you on your way out the door because he failed to pass your 4 to 6 month long test, that's another common thread with such women.

 

and women complain that men are commitment phobes...

 

did you ever stop to think that precisely what i said....damaged, distrustful, indecisive, and selfish women just aren't that fun to be around, is pretty accurate and that's why those women are single?

 

but let me guess, it's not that, it's because "there are just no good men left" right?

I don't know about your bad experiences. But I always pay my half on my dates and I'm ALWAYS committed from day 1.

 

As for the adjectives you used, you simply choose to see the glass half-empty instead of half-full.

[samsungxoxo]

i know this may be a shock but most men aren't looking for damaged, distrustful, indecisive, self centered women.

So basically if a woman gives it up too quickly she isn't gf nor wife material but if a woman takes things slow she's dumped and accused of being selfish. So what do you want then??? Have things your way???

 

If most men aren't looking for that than most women aren't looking for desperate men focusing on when we'll put out unless she's on the same page.

[EnigmaticClarity]

Please see Untouchable Fire's response above, which I agree with. You just gave a total opposite definition. Now who is right then? I think I'll go with Fire on this one.

 

You're both right--people never fit into the stereotypes we build, there are always a ton of exceptions, the stereotypes just help you predict behavior. A woman who wants to wait for waiting's sake can be confident and sexually aware, or she might not be. I've seen no compelling evidence there's more of one than the other, nor that the ones who hold out are of a higher quality than those who don't.

[phineas]

You're both right--people never fit into the stereotypes we build, there are always a ton of exceptions, the stereotypes just help you predict behavior. A woman who wants to wait for waiting's sake can be confident and sexually aware, or she might not be. I've seen no compelling evidence there's more of one than the other, nor that the ones who hold out are of a higher quality than those who don't.

 

We can only go by personal experiences.

 

As I said, my personal experience is women who want to wait for sex won't say their dating me but expect me to act like we are exclusive & then drop me to jump into bed with someone they just met.

 

So if I meet a woman who wants to wait, considering i'm 40, i'll assume serious baggage or Attention whore.

 

Now, if a woman was offering to publicly state to all her friends & family that we are in fact dating and made me feel like she really wanted to get to know me through ACTIONS & didn't play silly little games I might consider waiting a few months to get to know her.

 

But I have yet to run into that. What I meet are women who flirt hard, get sexually suggestive, blow up my phone, ask to come over or invite me to their place, then hit the brakes hard with lame excuses then don't want me talking to other women, try to keep tabs on me, won't state we are dating but insinuate me talking to other women is "cheating" when we haven't even kissed & play silly little games like constantly mention other guys who hit on them or txt them or ex's who call them up or some other immature crap like that.

 

Basically straight up manipulators that just want me chasing them. I've learned to recognize these women & I freeze them out until their offering what I want & because they really have turned out to be the type to sleep with men their attracted to quickly & have issues, a guy who ignores them is a guy they decide they want.

 

and then there are women who just want a fling. Not going to turn that down.

 

I've yet to meet a woman that says she wants to take things slow & doesn't dangle the sex carrot.

 

My personal experience.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Women are not necessarily trying to torture a guy, get him hooked, use vagina power, dangle a carrot, whatever, if she needs to wait a long time before getting sexual.

 

Also, FYI, for some of us libido is conditional - upon the person we are with. Personally, when I am not really into an individual man, I don't have much sex drive. I don't feel like I "need" to get laid. It's all wrapped up in my response to a man that I am with - and then, I am very sexual. That's just me though.

 

I have always been a girl / woman who had to take quite a bit of time before I felt "safe" enough with a man to have sex with him, with a few notable exceptions (involving booze). My first boyfriend (I was in high school, he was in college) dumped me because of it. Well, he didn't straight out dump me; he had sex with someone else. It really hurt me. But, I had to be true to myself in that way, and if it was not okay with him, then so be it.

 

Here is my point: if a person needs a lot of time to be ready to have a sexual relationship, they NEED to honor this in themselves. Abandoning this because of social pressure or pressure from an individual, or fear of getting dumped, is NOT a good idea. Sexuality is too personal and deep to mess with because of pressure from the outside.

 

Just for the record, I have NO moral or ethical or whatever issue with easy and casual sexual liaisons in general. My own adult daughter does not attach a great deal of importance to sex, and I am fine with that. It just is not good for ME. And if a guy was not okay with this part of me, then he was free to move on - it was probably a sign of some basic incompatibility anyway.

[ThaWholigan]

Women are not necessarily trying to torture a guy, get him hooked, use vagina power, dangle a carrot, whatever, if she needs to wait a long time before getting sexual.

 

Also, FYI, for some of us libido is conditional - upon the person we are with. Personally, when I am not really into an individual man, I don't have much sex drive. I don't feel like I "need" to get laid. It's all wrapped up in my response to a man that I am with - and then, I am very sexual. That's just me though.

 

I have always been a girl / woman who had to take quite a bit of time before I felt "safe" enough with a man to have sex with him, with a few notable exceptions (involving booze). My first boyfriend (I was in high school, he was in college) dumped me because of it. Well, he didn't straight out dump me; he had sex with someone else. It really hurt me. But, I had to be true to myself in that way, and if it was not okay with him, then so be it.

 

Here is my point: if a person needs a lot of time to be ready to have a sexual relationship, they NEED to honor this in themselves. Abandoning this because of social pressure or pressure from an individual, or fear of getting dumped, is NOT a good idea. Sexuality is too personal and deep to mess with because of pressure from the outside.

 

Just for the record, I have NO moral or ethical or whatever issue with easy and casual sexual liaisons in general. My own adult daughter does not attach a great deal of importance to sex, and I am fine with that. It just is not good for ME. And if a guy was not okay with this part of me, then he was free to move on - it was probably a sign of some basic incompatibility anyway.

 

I agree with this completely actually. From what I believe, I think a lot of women are highly sexual when paired with a man who is able to satiate that side to them. If they don't feel that, they do tend to do a lot of waiting.

 

I don't think that a woman waiting is indicative of her libido personally, it's just she either wants to wait for her own reasons, or she's not that sexually attracted to you. It's a gamble for most men to stick around and find out, and sometimes it's not worth it.

[blueskyday]

Very enlightening conversation. For me, I love sex. I crave it. I need it. I have a high drive, when I am in a relationship.

 

I just want to be with a WHOLE guy, not just a d*ck. It takes a bit of time to get to know someone. I want an emotional and intellectual connection, too. Physical chemistry is necessary, but not enough by itself.

 

I need to feel safe, playful, mentally stimulated and have an overall admiration for the guy I'm going to get naked with. Just makes it all that much better.

 

It's like being a wild horse within a corral. For me, the corral is the parameters of a relationship. In order to feel "safe," I want an exclusive relationship first. Otherwise, there is no "container" for explosive passion. It's like boundaries. We can let go and be very free when they are in place.

 

But it takes a little bit of time to see if you want an exclusive dating situation with someone.

 

In order to feel "playful" I have to have fun with the guy. Let's go out on a bunch of dates where we laugh...Mentally stimulated means he better be able to have a conversation and share ideas, thoughts, etc...

 

Admiration means I respect the guy and his judgment, and his overall belief system. It means he is nice, and has a backbone.

 

For me, sex is a wonderful dinner of many items. It just takes a bit of time to make a plate, so to speak.

 

It has NOTHING to do with making a guy wait. I will be into a guy from the first date if there is chemistry. It's just that it's not enough to get naked until I feel something in my heart for him as well.

 

Intimacy is a circle. Emotional leads to physical. Physical leads to emotional. I get it.

 

I love sex, but I will only have it when I can feel free and wild, and be uninhibited with someone. When I feel that, I do it.

Edited December 30, 2011 by blueskyday

[thatone]

Women are not necessarily trying to torture a guy, get him hooked, use vagina power, dangle a carrot, whatever, if she needs to wait a long time before getting sexual.

 

Also, FYI, for some of us libido is conditional - upon the person we are with. Personally, when I am not really into an individual man, I don't have much sex drive. I don't feel like I "need" to get laid. It's all wrapped up in my response to a man that I am with - and then, I am very sexual. That's just me though.

 

I have always been a girl / woman who had to take quite a bit of time before I felt "safe" enough with a man to have sex with him, with a few notable exceptions (involving booze). My first boyfriend (I was in high school, he was in college) dumped me because of it. Well, he didn't straight out dump me; he had sex with someone else. It really hurt me. But, I had to be true to myself in that way, and if it was not okay with him, then so be it.

 

Here is my point: if a person needs a lot of time to be ready to have a sexual relationship, they NEED to honor this in themselves. Abandoning this because of social pressure or pressure from an individual, or fear of getting dumped, is NOT a good idea. Sexuality is too personal and deep to mess with because of pressure from the outside.

 

Just for the record, I have NO moral or ethical or whatever issue with easy and casual sexual liaisons in general. My own adult daughter does not attach a great deal of importance to sex, and I am fine with that. It just is not good for ME. And if a guy was not okay with this part of me, then he was free to move on - it was probably a sign of some basic incompatibility anyway.

 

not necessarily? that's fine, but as grkboy said, every one i have ever met who acted that way, wound up being that way.

 

after being burned that way more than once, unless the woman in question is very convincing with reasons for her actions, none of which may include past boyfriends or any semblance of distrust, the answer is 'no'.

[Mme. Chaucer]

not necessarily? that's fine, but as grkboy said, every one i have ever met who acted that way, wound up being that way.

 

after being burned that way more than once, unless the woman in question is very convincing with reasons for her actions, none of which may include past boyfriends or any semblance of distrust, the answer is 'no'.

 

It's interesting that you view a woman not having sex with you on your timeline (or ever, maybe) as the woman "burning" you.

 

Why do you perceive this as mistreatment of you, by her?

 

If she is not feeling like having sex, that's the way it is. You are certainly free to move on immediately. That is perfectly within your right, and I don't think that she would be entitled to hold that against you. But why the rancor?

 

And why should she be "very convincing" with reasons YOU deem worthy ones? She doesn't have to convince you about why she does not want to or isn't now ready to get sexual. It might be none of your business at that point. Again, feel free to move on, but please stop the blaming.

 

You know - a lot of us (without having "princess complexes" or whatever) are not geared towards sharing ourselves intimately with people casually. Some of us (me included) did try it, responding to the way we perceived that things were "supposed" to be. If it felt wrong, we would not continue that way.

 

Reading this as a girl "giving it up easy" to that guy while "making" you wait might be very off base. She may have learned and decided that she wasn't easy about sex at all.

 

Anyway, live and let live. People who need to get sexually involved with other people quickly are probably compatible with each other, and will be happiest finding others like that. People who need to wait longer and / or those who are okay with "the journey and not the destination" in that respect are probably compatible with each other. So what's the problem?

[TheFinalWord]

Sex is more than 10-15% of the equation. My GF told me that if my penis was not big enough, she would have had to end the relationship. Thankfully I am big. So sex is important to the women also. If they are not satisfied then why would they want to stay in the relationship.

 

If sex is the dominating force in the relationship you better hope you never have libido issues later in life!

 

What I meant was that, yes sex is important but it's not the most important part or else we'd all be married here.

 

From my perspective the most important component is a common vision; whatever that may be. For some, to be partners who support our corporate goals others to raise a 10 kid family. Whatever it is, liberal or conservative, the visions have to line up. Typically things like values, communication styles, etc will fall into place if the vision is mutual. Sex is fun and a good way to create an emotional bond but it can't replace a vision. Unless sex is the driving force, which I supposed could work just better hope everyone stays perfectly healthy!

[Mme. Chaucer]

I want to clarify that my post above is referring only to people getting to know one another in the "dating" stage. (Remember when "dating" meant going out and doing things socially and did NOT mean sex?)

 

When people are engaged in a sexual relationship, then I do believe that they have responsibilities to each other to keep that aspect of the relationship fulfilling for each one. Withholding or using sex as bribery in a relationship is bad, IMO. So is bullying, pouting or being passive-agressive about sex.

[phineas]

Women are not necessarily trying to torture a guy, get him hooked, use vagina power, dangle a carrot, whatever, if she needs to wait a long time before getting sexual.

 

Also, FYI, for some of us libido is conditional - upon the person we are with. Personally, when I am not really into an individual man, I don't have much sex drive. I don't feel like I "need" to get laid. It's all wrapped up in my response to a man that I am with - and then, I am very sexual. That's just me though.

 

I have always been a girl / woman who had to take quite a bit of time before I felt "safe" enough with a man to have sex with him, with a few notable exceptions (involving booze). My first boyfriend (I was in high school, he was in college) dumped me because of it. Well, he didn't straight out dump me; he had sex with someone else. It really hurt me. But, I had to be true to myself in that way, and if it was not okay with him, then so be it.

 

Here is my point: if a person needs a lot of time to be ready to have a sexual relationship, they NEED to honor this in themselves. Abandoning this because of social pressure or pressure from an individual, or fear of getting dumped, is NOT a good idea. Sexuality is too personal and deep to mess with because of pressure from the outside.

 

Just for the record, I have NO moral or ethical or whatever issue with easy and casual sexual liaisons in general. My own adult daughter does not attach a great deal of importance to sex, and I am fine with that. It just is not good for ME. And if a guy was not okay with this part of me, then he was free to move on - it was probably a sign of some basic incompatibility anyway.

 

I don't believe all women are like this, but what about women that after months of dating never had sex with me then literally had sex with some other dude they just met?

 

This has happened to me almost every time I agreed to take things slow with a woman.

 

There are a handful of guys verifying this has happened to them & to other guys they know & I keep seeing these facts get ignored & our reason's for not wanting to wait also being ignored.

 

Now, this has not happened to me once since I got in shape.

Not once.

 

Coincidence? I don't think so.

[thatone]

It's interesting that you view a woman not having sex with you on your timeline (or ever, maybe) as the woman "burning" you.

 

Why do you perceive this as mistreatment of you, by her?

 

If she is not feeling like having sex, that's the way it is. You are certainly free to move on immediately. That is perfectly within your right, and I don't think that she would be entitled to hold that against you. But why the rancor?

 

And why should she be "very convincing" with reasons YOU deem worthy ones? She doesn't have to convince you about why she does not want to or isn't now ready to get sexual. It might be none of your business at that point. Again, feel free to move on, but please stop the blaming.

 

You know - a lot of us (without having "princess complexes" or whatever) are not geared towards sharing ourselves intimately with people casually. Some of us (me included) did try it, responding to the way we perceived that things were "supposed" to be. If it felt wrong, we would not continue that way.

 

Reading this as a girl "giving it up easy" to that guy while "making" you wait might be very off base. She may have learned and decided that she wasn't easy about sex at all.

 

Anyway, live and let live. People who need to get sexually involved with other people quickly are probably compatible with each other, and will be happiest finding others like that. People who need to wait longer and / or those who are okay with "the journey and not the destination" in that respect are probably compatible with each other. So what's the problem?

 

the women i'm talking about have no choice but to lie about their reasons. if they told the truth the man they're stringing along would disappear on the spot.

 

so they have to use the common excuses described in this thread, none of which are true.

 

so yeah, when they lie to someone for a month or three to get the attention they want from them all while looking over their shoulder to see what other options present themselves, that person they've strung along has a right to feel burned.

 

you're assuming your way is the default way and is acceptable. men often determine that it isn't and to be honest, rightfully so.

[phineas]

I want to clarify that my post above is referring only to people getting to know one another in the "dating" stage. (Remember when "dating" meant going out and doing things socially and did NOT mean sex?)

 

When people are engaged in a sexual relationship, then I do believe that they have responsibilities to each other to keep that aspect of the relationship fulfilling for each one. Withholding or using sex as bribery in a relationship is bad, IMO. So is bullying, pouting or being passive-agressive about sex.

 

well, I am referring to woman that I spent months dating exclusively because that's what they said they wanted but no sex & they were in actuality sleeping with an ex, a FWB or still shopping around behind my back.

 

Next thing I know they have a new BF & i'm being told "it's different with him" when I ask about taking it slow. LOL!

 

Casual dating is going out & having a good time & i've actually been friend-zoned because I didn't try to have sex with a woman on the 1st or 2nd date.

 

I was looking to date her not have a fling with her so sex was not on my agenda that evening.

Getting to know her was.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'm certainly not here in defense of all women and their behavior, and I acknowledge freely that many women "use" sexuality and handle sexuality in negative ways. Men too.

 

I'm sorry that so many people are constantly feeling used and abused in their searches for companionship, on whatever level that may be.

 

I think the only way to stop it is if each of us individually does not use and / or abuse other people, and also if we each learn how to look out for ourselves properly. It doesn't need to involve any poor behavior towards other people.

 

Ideally, it could include fun and other pleasant things. Even sex, sometimes.

[PlumPrincess]

Instead of concluding that all women who want to take it slow are attention whores, because some women are like this, the guys should learn how to differentiate between attention whores and women who really want to take it slow and have no hidden agenda.

[thatone]

Instead of concluding that all women who want to take it slow are attention whores, because some women are like this, the guys should learn how to differentiate between attention whores and women who really want to take it slow and have no hidden agenda.

 

well that doesn't really work either.

 

here's why....

 

no woman has ever taken responsibility for anything perceived as negative that happened in any relationship or dating situation i've been in. not once, ever. so consider that while reading the following...

 

when the initial infatuation such women feel with meeting a new man wears off and they have no sexual attachment to him, they'll run off to the next guy chasing that feeling again, all while telling the one that they're leaving that the 'chemistry is gone' as if that's his fault, when in fact she's just going on a cycle of first dates with the same guy over and over again until it gets stale.

 

every now and then she'll luck out and get approached by a guy way beyond her pay grade and jump into bed with him right away to get her own needs satisfied, then wonder why he doesn't want a relationship with her.

 

then she'll start the same cycle over again telling the next few men she meets that it was the other guy's fault who took advantage of her and as a result she's going to project him on to them and insist on 'taking things slow'.

 

repeat ad infinitum.

 

and the reason that the attention whore is no different than the type you're describing is that both types tend to lie about their intentions. the women who are afraid to have sex with a guy for months at a time are also withholding all sorts of information from him. so outside of downright spying and snooping into her past, there's no way to tell which sort you're dealing with other than to put the ball in her court so to speak. you put as little effort into her as she is putting into you. at that point the attention whore will get that twinge of rejection fear and come running to you. the other type will just disappear. that's the most sure fire way to get an honest reaction from either type. otherwise you'll never get the truth out of either one.

Edited December 30, 2011 by thatone

[Mme. Chaucer]

It's a vicious cycle. Guys like you seem to be in fear of being taken advantage of. Many of the hesitant girls are hesitant because they are afraid of being taken advantage of.

 

thatone, I don't wish to argue with you, or to get into any kind of gender conflict thing, but honestly look at the frequency with which guys post here about their "game" and how they need help deceiving girls into being reliable sources for "banging" and / or "punani." And of course there are massive Internet resources for sharing ways to fool girls into thinking guys like them.

 

Girls are reading this. Of course, they are going to become even more leery of believing that a guy who is sexually interested in them, and who is in a hurry about it, is interested in more about them than their vagina.

 

They are looking for "proof" of it. Willingness to wait, or even to spend money might be valid proof for certain women / girls.

 

Meanwhile, guys seem to be thinking that the only way a girl can prove that she really likes him and is not just looking for free dinners or whatever is to hop into bed with him asap.

 

Yet you can't deny that the girl who does just that is frequently judged harshly by guys. We read about that here all the time too. Not every guy, by any means - but plenty do post about how a girl who has sex with them early and easily is deemed "low quality."

 

How can it be resolved?

[somedude81]

I wouldn't mind waiting a few months. Heck, that's pretty much what I'd prefer.

 

I just don't want her getting her rocks of from somebody else, because I certainly wouldn't.

[oaks]

How can it be resolved?

 

We should shut down the Internet. Then we won't have to read about all these problems.

[phineas]

It's a vicious cycle. Guys like you seem to be in fear of being taken advantage of. Many of the hesitant girls are hesitant because they are afraid of being taken advantage of.

 

thatone, I don't wish to argue with you, or to get into any kind of gender conflict thing, but honestly look at the frequency with which guys post here about their "game" and how they need help deceiving girls into being reliable sources for "banging" and / or "punani." And of course there are massive Internet resources for sharing ways to fool girls into thinking guys like them.

 

Girls are reading this. Of course, they are going to become even more leery of believing that a guy who is sexually interested in them, and who is in a hurry about it, is interested in more about them than their vagina.

 

They are looking for "proof" of it. Willingness to wait, or even to spend money might be valid proof for certain women / girls.

 

Meanwhile, guys seem to be thinking that the only way a girl can prove that she really likes him and is not just looking for free dinners or whatever is to hop into bed with him asap.

 

Yet you can't deny that the girl who does just that is frequently judged harshly by guys. We read about that here all the time too. Not every guy, by any means - but plenty do post about how a girl who has sex with them early and easily is deemed "low quality."

 

How can it be resolved?

 

How to resolve it?

For starters stop perpetuating the bolded above.

 

I haven't read one post in this thread where a male claimed he expected a woman to hop into bed with him ASAP.

 

If I am wrong, show it to me & i'll be more than happy to agree with you.

 

 

I've seen men claim their not going to treat a woman like their GF until sex is happening.

 

I personally won't take a woman seriously or spend any significant amount of money on her until i'm getting some.

 

But I only expect them to have sex with me if they expect me to stop seeing other women.

 

Just for the record, I know guys like this. I think their idiots if they consider a woman low quality for sleeping with them but consider themselves high quality even though they slept with her just as quickly.

 

I do not take advice on women from them in real life & I honestly can't remember who posts what on these forums from thread to thread unless their attacking me personally.

 

Are the same men who call women that sleep with them quickly "low quality" the same one's in this thread claiming they don't mind waiting?

That is something that would prove interesting if someone wanted to take the time to research it.

 

But i'm not that guy.

 

sleeping with me early doesn't make a woman low quality in my eyes.

Having a history of dating a different "bad boy" every 6 months, having multiple kids with multiple fathers & never marrying, playing childish games & thinking their all that & bag of chips while leading on multiple men at once makes a woman low quality in my mind.

[TheFinalWord]

Having a history of dating a different "bad boy" every 6 months, having multiple kids with multiple fathers & never marrying, playing childish games & thinking their all that & bag of chips while leading on multiple men at once makes a woman low quality in my mind.

 

LOL! I think we disagree on the sex thing, but I do agree with this!

[Feelsgoodman]

I have always been a girl / woman who had to take quite a bit of time before I felt "safe" enough with a man to have sex with him, with a few notable exceptions (involving booze).

You've just unwittingly provided a great example of the social dynamic that leads men to have such a jaded and negative view of the modern woman. On the one hand, you make yourself out to be some kind of a 'proper' lady with high standards and good morals, who needs time to "feel safe" with a man before having sex. On the other hand, you are clearly not above partaking in drunken debauchery and throwing these high standards and good morals out the window while using alcohol as an excuse.

 

A man may follow the traditional courting ritual, do all the things he is "supposed" to do (taking you out on dates, etc.), jump through whatever hoops you choose to put up for him before deciding that you feel "safe" enough...and then you'd end up going out with your friends one night and meet some other guy who doesn't do any of that stuff and instead gets you liquored up and f*cks you the same night. If you are the former guy, it would be very hard not to feel like a chump in a situation like that.

[phineas]

You've just unwittingly provided a great example of the social dynamic that leads men to have such a jaded and negative view of the modern woman. On the one hand, you make yourself out to be some kind of a 'proper' lady with high standards and good morals, who needs time to "feel safe" with a man before having sex. On the other hand, you are clearly not above partaking in drunken debauchery and throwing these high standards and good morals out the window while using alcohol as an excuse.

 

A man may follow the traditional courting ritual, do all the things he is "supposed" to do (taking you out on dates, etc.), jump through whatever hoops you choose to put up for him before deciding that you feel "safe" enough...and then you'd end up going out with your friends one night and meet some other guy who doesn't do any of that stuff and instead gets you liquored up and f*cks you the same night. If you are the former guy, it would be very hard not to feel like a chump in a situation like that.

 

Good catch!

I missed that last part.

Ok I kinda skimmed. I admit. LOL!

 

But in a nutshell this is why at age 40 I move along when a woman tells me she needs to take it slow.