Do guys REALLY prefer the 'natural' look/beauty?

[MrNate 2.0]

I never said that men are 100% responsible for this. It's a combo of a little bit of everything. So then... you have to ask, why aren't men bothered to go to the same lengths? Why don't they have nose jobs or facelifts more often for example? I refuse to believe this is based on simple biology or gender differences. I think it's much more complicated and very cultural: i.e. a man with scars is handsome but a women with scars (or God-forbid, pores) are either ugly or average. For example, why are women in the West less catered for in terms of products that are aimed towards their sexuality but in the far East they are seen as great consumers (millions of "yaoi" comics or mouse pads featuring hunks, for example)? Female industries have ads of female products that are manufactured by men. Also, how about porn? Man-made for men. Even if women don't watch it they will still be indirectly influenced, the new generation of teens especially.

 

So, yes, maybe women ARE insecure and there IS internal pressure, but what drives these feelings? And where does this desire for competition come from? In the harem, for example, concubines competed with each other. Why? So as to appeal more to the man in charge. Had this man not existed I doubt they would bother. Maybe they would fight for other reasons but not for dominance over sexual power. I also don't think it's simple vanity. (Vanity is the excessive belief in one's own abilities or attractiveness to others). Some have it. But I think the majority of women who go to such lengths (and there are a lot) suffer from a degree of low self-esteem because of this societal pressure. So, I think media pressure (from all directions) -> low self-esteem--> intensive and extensive attempts to reach an unrealistic beauty ideal. So, where men come into this? Well... in the West at least, they make not much of an effort to tip the balance to the other side. For example, ads featuring male semi-nude men are rare and far in between (and are usually made by gay fashion designers). It's this imbalance in everything that seems to hold men responsible - to a certain degree at least. Women always shout "give us more eye-candy" for example, but unless they go to gay websites, they won't find that very easily. For some reason society believes women have no eyes or not much sexual desire, which is false. Now if there was balance, both genders would either be both culturally pressured or not pressured at all.

 

 

I think this is over complicating things. I think it stems more down to what length do women feel they need to go to attract a man.

 

It also comes down to how we see other men/women behave around those deemed more desirable.

 

Liken it to how women look at a man who may be pretty sculpted and all, they will probably be different looks than they'd give an average man. Result: Those average men want to feel desirable, so they feel they need to look like that.

 

Same with women. Men will give a different look to a fine woman than a average woman. Result: Those average women want to feel desirable, so they feel they need to go to those great lengths to do so.

 

Now of course we don't need to be absolutely sculpted or have nice big asses to attract mates. But I think we all on a certain level, want to be attractive to as many members of the opposite sex as possible. So many times we choose to model our behaviors after those who have achieved that goal, which can probably cause more harm than good in certain ways.

[dasein]

So then... you have to ask, why aren't men bothered to go to the same lengths?

 

Men aren't bothered to go to the same lengths? Have you seen the standards of male body beauty lately? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to maintain a flat stomach for a man with standard or above innate body mass? Let alone a six pack? Unlike women, men generally retain almost all body fat in the abdominal area. A man with a flat or defined stomach is the equivalent of a woman with perfect thighs and ass, no cellulite at all and de minimis fat tissue, and no men I know are foolish enough as to voice such an expectation, yet I see women here, OLD and IRL demanding a flat or "cut" stomach or don't bother approaching them. That's just one example. Height is the most egregious, and if you are a short man, you better be a near perfect physical specimen otherwise with a very handsome face.

 

Do men generally pour money down fashion black holes the way women do? No, we go to the gym and do the work if we are going to enhance our appearance. Don't even bother pitching us some magical La Mer cream for $100 a jar, we ain't buyin. Somehow we innately know there is no free lunch, one day god bless em, maybe women will figure this out too.

 

For example, why are women in the West less catered for in terms of products that are aimed towards their sexuality but in the far East they are seen as great consumers (millions of "yaoi" comics or mouse pads featuring hunks, for example)? Female industries have ads of female products that are manufactured by men. Also, how about porn? Man-made for men. Even if women don't watch it they will still be indirectly influenced, the new generation of teens especially.

 

You gotta be kidding. Try this experiment, run through your cable tv offerings and note the very high percentage of programming directly targetted specifically at a female audience, then watch the ads in that programming. Just because Asian marketers are dumb enough to waste precious marketing time selling women low margin crap like mousepads and comics doesn't mean the vastly more sophisticated American marketing machine will make a similar error. No, we will sell you $80 bottles of "whipped cream" flavored vodka with a 1000% markup, shoes with a 5000% markup, luxury "just so" mattresses with a 500% markup, jewelry with... you get the point hopefully.

 

As far as porn goes, the female oriented porn industry is doing just fine. Tune into "Trueblood" if you don't agree or go browse the romance novel section at Target. Don't make the mistake of limiting the overall pornography market to the stuff guys watch on the net. It's much bigger than that.

[dasein]

The fastest growing segment of the population opting for plastic surgery, fillers, botox, hair transplants and lipo are men, especially men over forty who don't want to lose their jobs due to ageism. If it makes them look and feel better, I am all for it.

 

It's not too hard to envision the above in light of starting out at -ZERO- less than a couple decades ago and also in light of the "metrosexual" quasi gay male urban standards of apperance relatively recently.

[donnamaybe]

I would love to see the reactions of the guy in charge of filming a porn movie if the female porn star showed up for the shoot sans makeup.

[silvermercy]

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Men aren't bothered to go to the same lengths? Have you seen the standards of male body beauty lately? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to maintain a flat stomach for a man with standard or above innate body mass? Let alone a six pack? Unlike women, men generally retain almost all body fat in the abdominal area. A man with a flat or defined stomach is the equivalent of a woman with perfect thighs and ass, no cellulite at all and de minimis fat tissue, and no men I know are foolish enough as to voice such an expectation, yet I see women here, OLD and IRL demanding a flat or "cut" stomach or don't bother approaching them. That's just one example. Height is the most egregious, and if you are a short man, you better be a near perfect physical specimen otherwise with a very handsome face.

Woah! Hold your horses! I know it is difficult of course. But it's also very difficult for women to attain that perfect model body. Unfortunately, that's what the majority of women are brainwashed into trying to achieve it. Don't know if the majority of men are brainwashed into that. Model bodies are as difficult as getting a 6-pack. But I was also talking about nose jobs and facelifts (i.e. facial features).

 

Do men generally pour money down fashion black holes the way women do? No, we go to the gym and do the work if we are going to enhance our appearance. Don't even bother pitching us some magical La Mer cream for $100 a jar, we ain't buyin. Somehow we innately know there is no free lunch, one day god bless em, maybe women will figure this out too.

I agree La Mer creams are the worst con invented perhaps. But ad-bombardment can do wonders it seems. If there was a specific miracle cream that specifically enhanced muscles in men, I'm sure there'd be many men buying it.

 

 

You gotta be kidding. Try this experiment, run through your cable tv offerings and note the very high percentage of programming directly targetted specifically at a female audience, then watch the ads in that programming. Just because Asian marketers are dumb enough to waste precious marketing time selling women low margin crap like mousepads and comics doesn't mean the vastly more sophisticated American marketing machine will make a similar error. No, we will sell you $80 bottles of "whipped cream" flavored vodka with a 1000% markup, shoes with a 5000% markup, luxury "just so" mattresses with a 500% markup, jewelry with... you get the point hopefully.

I HAVE gone through 500+ channels of my cable and have only encountered male-oriented sex programs. Nothing female-oriented (I was talking about sex programs). Maybe it's because I live in Europe.

Funny you say that. Asian marketers generate BILLIONS of yen from that market alone. Just one of the yaoi comics had sold millions of copies in a year. Now that's a result if I saw one!

 

As far as porn goes, the female oriented porn industry is doing just fine. Tune into "Trueblood" if you don't agree or go browse the romance novel section at Target. Don't make the mistake of limiting the overall pornography market to the stuff guys watch on the net. It's much bigger than that.

Trueblood turned me off and never watched it again BECAUSE of those sex scenes. I want variety (other than sexy vampires) and can't find that. I don't like romance novels and none of my female friends do. I don't think I know any woman who does. Also, I wouldn't compare romance novels with raw porn in a million years - for reasons I'd need 5 pages to explain in detail why.

[Woggle]

I don't mind makeup as long as it is done well but the big turn off is orange tan. There are no orange people so why try to be one?

 

Another thing is that people in general who get too much surgery just end up looking horrible. They don't even look human to me.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

So true.

 

A girl who spends an hour a day exercising (for free!) is going to blow out of the water a girl who spends an hour a day applying expensive makeup.

 

With regards 'looking better to attract men', getting makeup tips is like trying to become a tennis pro by buying a more expensive racket. Your efforts are far better directed elsewhere.

 

There it is again! The classic "women need to exercise above all else". Not because men care about healthy women, but because men care about women's bodies above anything else. Such as having a more developed emotional maturity, or intelligence or even spiritiual side. As along as us ladies are exercising our butts off, that's all we need to be worthy of beauty. I sure love this message that gets tossed around here quite often. If I ran around this board saying how much better men could do if they pushed themselves to make more money, I would get lamb blasted. Yet comments like these lay around LS like one changes underwear.

 

 

Men aren't bothered to go to the same lengths? Have you seen the standards of male body beauty lately? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to maintain a flat stomach for a man with standard or above innate body mass? Let alone a six pack? Unlike women, men generally retain almost all body fat in the abdominal area. A man with a flat or defined stomach is the equivalent of a woman with perfect thighs and ass, no cellulite at all and de minimis fat tissue, and no men I know are foolish enough as to voice such an expectation, yet I see women here, OLD and IRL demanding a flat or "cut" stomach or don't bother approaching them. That's just one example. Height is the most egregious, and if you are a short man, you better be a near perfect physical specimen otherwise with a very handsome face.

 

Women are expected to have perfectly flat little tummies and tiny wasts along with those perfectly shapped butts and thighs. Not to mention we are suppose to have perfectly c cup (the most preferred kind of breast) perky breasts. While pressure for men in the looks department has increased in recent years, it is no where near what the pressure on women is. That's jsut the reality.

[Pizzaman81]

Most men will say that they prefer a woman without makeup, yet I feel like I could never get a typically "hot" guy simply because I despise wearing makeup. I'm a pretty girl, or so I've been told, and have no problems with men in general, but I feel as though I could never get with the really 'hot' guys because they constantly have the Barbie-looking Blonde who curls her hair and wears expensive make up everyday hanging off of them.

 

PS., not that these 'Barbie' types aren't gorgeous, but you know? They're always dressed to the nines. I just don't do that .....

 

You can only pull off the natural beauty look if you are pretty. End thread.

[Pizzaman81]

I don't mind makeup as long as it is done well but the big turn off is orange tan. There are no orange people so why try to be one?

 

Another thing is that people in general who get too much surgery just end up looking horrible. They don't even look human to me.

 

Haha you must be from Jersey or something.

[FitChick]

Lipo is very popular for young men who work out but have abs covered by a layer or fat and they have love handles. Easy fix.

 

So all you guys whining that you are ugly, get a second or third job and start saving your money.

Edited December 30, 2011 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Woggle]

Haha you must be from Jersey or something.

 

I am actually and it is not as widespread as people would think. People here at least get natural tans in the summer.

[dasein]

If I ran around this board saying how much better men could do if they pushed themselves to make more money, I would get lamb blasted. Yet comments like these lay around LS like one changes underwear.

 

Wrong context, bad analogy. As difficult as getting in top body shape is it pales in comparison to the effort it takes to make more money. You can't make significantly more money by working an extra hour a day, but can do just fine physically with that level of work. There simply isn't any valid comparison to be made between the amount of effort required between physical and financial success.

 

Women are expected to have perfectly flat little tummies and tiny wasts along with those perfectly shapped butts and thighs. Not to mention we are suppose to have perfectly c cup (the most preferred kind of breast) perky breasts. While pressure for men in the looks department has increased in recent years, it is no where near what the pressure on women is. That's jsut the reality.

 

The above reflects complete delusion.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I also wanted to add that while women have a great expectations placed on them about their weight, women are also the ones that are naturally more fatty with less muscle mass. Men burn off calories easier due to the fact that men have more muscle and how their bodies are designed. Where women are designed to have weight on them for keep their babies warm. But women are still expected to be incredibly thin with big huge boobs and butts. More of a caricture of a woman's body then what most women are "naturally".

 

 

Pizzaman:

Haha you must be from Jersey or something.

 

Haha, you must be one of those people that believe everything they see on TV.

 

P.S. Most of the cast (if not all of them) aren't even from New Jersey.

[Woggle]

I think one of them is from New Jersey. Things aren't even really like that at the actual Jersey Shore. I live where it is filmed and I never heard most of the terminology they use in my life.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Wrong context, bad analogy. As difficult as getting in top body shape is it pales in comparison to the effort it takes to make more money. You can't make significantly more money by working an extra hour a day, but can do just fine physically with that level of work. There simply isn't any valid comparison to be made between the amount of effort required between physical and financial success.

 

Who says that getting in top body shape pales in comparison to the effort it takes to make more money? For some people, certain things come easier then others. I have girlfriends that never work out but have natural muscle tone and are very thin. I work out quite a lot and it takes quite a lot of effort for me to maintain my weight. I don't have natural muscle tone either.

 

For some people, making money comes easy, and for other it doesn't. Me saying and advocating that men should work harder to make more money to become more attractive is no different then men advocating that women should work out harder to have a better ody to be more attractive.

 

 

The above reflects complete delusion.

 

You could just disagree instead of being so degrading toward me.

 

It would als obe helpful if you actually stated why you disagreed instead of being purposely offensive.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

I think one of them is from New Jersey. Things aren't even really like that at the actual Jersey Shore. I live where it is filmed and I never heard most of the terminology they use in my life.

 

I love people who watch the Jersey Shore and think they know "facts" about the people or the state from a show built on sensationlism.

 

I haven't seen that either Woogle at the actual Jersey Shore. And I've been going since I was a kid myself. I don't live down there but I grew up going to Seaside/Island Beach State Park. People tend to be skanky on the boardwalk but not with orange tans and big hair. You just tend to see a lot of skin, but it is the beach after all! And I am hard pressed to think there isn't a place like that in just about every state in the good old US of A.

[Woggle]

You see that at every beach. The only you don't have is some of the best pizza, ice cream and sausage sandwiches you can find.

 

I know this is a bit off topic though so back to the original program.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Some guys go for all the blaring bells and whistles (Pamela Anderson) and some guys like the "natural beauty" look (Halle Berry).

 

I do believe that it's pretty easy to lead many guys to think they are looking at "natural beauty" when they are really looking at artfully applied make up.

 

Whatever. I love make up, perfume, hair color experimentation and all the extra trappings we women get to play with if we want to.

 

For the record, though, I think the "hot" women posted by Negative Nancy look pretty "rode hard and put away wet" and they would not be considered attractive by the men I've known in my life. Except my brother, but he's weird.

Edited December 30, 2011 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[Woggle]

Gwen Stefani and Shirley Manson do the heavily made up thing well.

[Pizzaman81]

...

 

Haha, you must be one of those people that believe everything they see on TV.

 

P.S. Most of the cast (if not all of them) aren't even from New Jersey.

 

haha, you must be from the East Coast!!!

[RecordProducer]

I get more hits and from better-looking and younger guys when I wear no makeup and look like crap than when I wear discreet makeup and look really cute. Go figure! And when I am totally done and look like a million dollars, I only get the worst dorks. Men find me attractive in general, but I consider myself in the charming & cute Jennifer Aniston category, not really a model type.

[Els]

So true. Dasein hit it right on the mark. Put down the make up brush and go for a couple km run. Being A-1 fit isn't just an investment in today's looks but also in tomorrow's.

 

The tone of this thread is revealing. In general guys keep telling the gals what they like (little make up) but the gals keep telling us that 'no you don't'. Hint to the women...start listerning to 'REAL GUYS' and not the fashion industry. The women keep referring to some hard earned 'natural look' achieved with make up...that's NOT the natural look to guys but rather YOUR idea of a natural look as presented by the fashuon industry.

 

Well, see, men tend to stab themselves in the foot a little by saying this, and then linking the sort of pictures that Lonely_Ronin linked as an example of 'fit, healthy girls who require low maintenance'. The issue is that what many men think is low maintenance is really not. Most men who have lived with girlfriends for a long time know this.

 

Of course, there really are men who genuinely love the way a woman looks when she is on a hike with them and sweating it out - maybe you are one of them. Given that you appear to be under the impression that all a woman needs to do to have attractive hair is to let it grow and use 99c shampoos and comb it, I have sincere doubts about your knowledge of female beauty routine, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here. The issue is when men say 'really natural' is great and then link the sort of pictures LR did. Those are a perfect example of what some men think are natural.. but really isn't. I know plenty of women with very slender frames whom men generally do not find attractive. I could link plenty of their pictures... but that would be cruel.

[SilverLining]

I think all people have all kinds of tastes. It's true that most men have ZERO idea of what it takes to look 'natural'. I think most guys just want a girl with makeup that accentuates. This 'no makeup' thing is more about perception, I think. If a girl wears contacts all the time then goes home to her boyfriend and puts on glasses, it's hot, because it's not standard. If she wore glasses all the time she might look good but the effect would not be the same. I think this is similar to the no makeup look. When a girlfriend takes off her makeup and is completely natural it's hot because it's like a secret that only you get to see, but if she did it all the time it might get old fast.

 

I used to work with a girl that never wore makeup. She was pretty, and she made everyone feel as if they were trying too hard in comparison. I found myself wearing less and less makeup to the office. I think that the makeup industry is driven by women competing with each other for what they THINK men want, and for the general appreciation of women as well. Yes, men seem to be the driving force but we women do it to ourselves. If you wear makeup there's a guy for you, if you don't there's a guy for you. We are slaves to our PERCEPTIONS of what men want and not the REALITY. Another point is that my old coworker was pretty but wasn't perfect. She could have benefited from a little makeup from time to time but she rolled with her imperfections rather than covering them up. That type of confidence is attractive sometimes. We women can't win the race of 'be more attractive than any other women' so we ought to just be comfortable with ourselves and do what makes US feel good, and men will be drawn to that.

 

As for the 'just work out' comment, I don't think it's bad to want your partner to be healthy and fit. I do think that this is driven by society though. In the past, women who were a little pudgy were considered more beautiful than thin, lean women. Some of the older generation still prefer that - one elderly man recently told me that while thin women can LOOK nice, the slightly bigger women FELT better. I guess it's all subjective. While women are told they need to be extremely thin (and a lot of younger guys base their attraction to women on this) I think that the majority of men tend to appreciate curves and don't really LIKE very thin girls. I even know some men who prefer bigger girls but don't date them because they feel pressured to date thinner girls that society thinks are more attractive. To each their own. Point is, no matter what your weight there will be men out there who are interested, because people like different things. I will say however that men put far greater emphasis on women's looks than women do for men. Sure, we all like attractive people but women will not always immediately write off someone who is losing hair or overweight, while a lot of guys will write of a girl who doesn't immediately fit into their idea of attractive.

[SilverLining]

Good point, Martinman. Never thought of it in those terms.

[Ilovewater]

I don't know if most men prefer no make-up, but quite a few of the men I know do prefer it (or at least they say they do). My exes and current boyfriend haven't had any problem with me wearing no make-up. I've only worn make-up once in my life, and it was not with any of them. They all have said that they like the fact that I don't wear make-up. However, I'm sure that they'd still appreciate make-up that's well done.