Trying to be the Rule, not the Exception.

[radrluv72]

Last fall I read "He's Just Not That Into You" from front to back in the span of one afternoon. Ever since then, I've relied on advice from the book to be my "bible" of sorts, and it's been extremely helpful. Even at the age of 39 with all my dating experiences, the fact that I'm still single makes it pretty clear that one is never too old or too scholared to get some very matter-of-fact advice. And the reason that I'm writing tonight is because as much as every red flag in me is going off about my current "situation", I have a friend who I think that is trying--with all good intentions--to convince me that this "situation" is the Exception. And I'm trying hard not to listen to her.

 

Almost 3 months ago, a good friend of me invited me over to her place to knock back a few drinks & girl talk while her husband had his buddies over to watch a football game. While I was there, I was introduced to one of his friends, a guy he's known since grade school. Initially I didn't pay too much attention to him but my friend kept talking about him all night, so I gave him a closer look. Cute, funny guy, had just landed a nice job, and supposedly had started eyeballing me that night as well. I told my friend that I would be open to getting to know him better. And she was so excited.

 

I came to find out a few days later that hooking this guy & myself was her husband's idea, which was kind of a shocker because her husband doesn't necessarily make big strides to be anyone's matchmaker. His theory was that I weas looking for a good guy, his friend needed a good woman...so why not. My friend also told me that the guy I was introduced to that night had texted her husband the next morning, saying in regards to me, "I gotta have her". Okay, I guess that's a positive sign...

 

Since then, getting us in the same location again so we have a chance to get to know eachother better has been nearly impossible & difficult. A few weeks after I met him, my friend called me at the last minute saying that a group of friends--including the guy she introduced me to--were headed out to a hockey game that night, and her husband's friend asked her to call me & invite me to come. As it was, I couldn't make it; I was already in the middle of something & it was too short notice, which she knew. So, she invited me hang out at a cabin they rented for the weekend for another friend's birthday in 3 weeks. I agreed to go, as it was going to be another chance to meet up with this guy again. But the weekend fell through, as my friend never got back to me in time about the camping trip, which she apologized for. To my understanding, when her husband's friend showed up that weekend, the first thing out of his mouth was, "where's Holly (me), didn't you bring her?" Ugh.

 

Where things are at now, is that it's been almost 3 months since I first met the guy, and I have yet to hang out with him again, and I'm getting annoyed. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I'm leaving myself closed off to any other possibilities, because that would be pretty stupid. But there are certain facts that really make me wonder if this guy is into hanging out with me again as much as my friend insists that he is. For those of you who have read "Not into You", you can probably see why. Here are the facts:

 

1. The night that he asked my friend to call me to come out to the hockey game. When he showed up that night, my friend told him that I thought he was cute and that I had given her full authorization to give him my phone number. Apparently he got all excited, and then asked if there was an extra ticket to the hockey game available, then told my friend to call me & ask me to come out that night. Well, wait a minute...that's all fine & dandy, but she had already told him that I was okay with him him having my number, but he wanted her to call me? And secondly, why didn't he take my number? My friend insists that things just got too busy because there was a large group of them hanging out that night , and of course alcohol got involved later...but regardless of that, I would think that someone who was interested in getting to know me better would have made a point to get my phone number from her.

 

2. The camping weekend...well, yes, I was kind of pissed off that the friend that was so insistent on having me come out that weekend so I could meet up with this guy again never got back to me about coming out. I later on found out that there was some major drama between some other couples that went on that weekend that ruined the fun for everyone else, so it was probably a blessing in disguise that I wound up not going. So I guess that whole weekend doesn't really count for anything.

 

3. The moves I've attempted to make since all this broo-ha-ha. "Not Into You" is emphatic about not chasing men. I agree. It's all about the thrill of the chase for a guy, and in the past, I've had a tendency to screw it all up. I am worthy of being asked out, I am worthy of being chased, and if a guy wants to be with you, he'll find you. If he wants to ask you out, he'll do it. If he wants to talk to you, he'll call. Don't treat men as you would like them to be, treat them as how they are. No argument here.

 

Now, while I know and accept all of this, over the past couple of weeks, my friend--my married friend who's been with the same guy for 12 years now--is trying to steer me otherwise. Her theory on why nothing is getting jump-started with this guy is because he's "shy". He's 31 now, but hasn't had a girlfriend since high school...supposedly got his heart broken. She's never known of him to date and believes that he's probably still a virgin. Not that it matters, but just because you don't see something doesn't make it so. She tells me repeatedly that this group of close friends that her husband has all come from the same mold. They all have a very short, virtually non-existent line of prior girlfriends, none of them ever chased girls, and are very shy when it comes to the opposite sex. She likes to tell me that when it came to her own husband, it took 2 months of hanging out with him in a group of people before she was able to finally get anything going with him. Now that almost 3 months have gone by, and getting a chance to hang out with her husband's friend again has been a royal pain in the ass, she's telling me that I may have to start being a little more forward & aggressive. Needless to say, after having read "Not Into You", what she's suggesting goes against almost everything I learned from that damn book.

 

So what I have done? Well, not a lot. A couple of weeks ago I friended him on Facebook (I know, how lame). Come to find out that he's ever very rarely on Facebook. My friend suggested that I message him & ask him if he was going to be at their place for New Year's...so I did. His reply was that he didn't know my friend & husband were doing anything that night. I told him that it was just something casual, and I had just been wondering if he was going to be there. After that, nothing.

 

The next thing I tried was that my friend insisted that I text him to come out & have a few drinks while we were at her neighborhood bar last Friday night. She gave me his number and I texted him...a few hours later he replied that he was in Minnesota that weekend. So that was that. Yep, he has my number now. Has he made use of it since then. That's a big fat NO. And I haven't tried to contact him again either.

 

Every red flag I have in my whole body is telling me that he's NOT THAT INTO ME. And frankly, I don't think I'm wrong. I went back today & re-read the first chapter of "Not Into You", and it only reinforces what I'm feeling. Yet any time I start to tell my friend what my gut is telling me, she keeps insisting that I'm completely wrong. But that whole "he's shy" thing is just sounding like one of the excuses that the book warns against. Okay fine, he's shy. He's been hurt in the way-distant pass. But I'm getting sick and tired of hearing my friend make excuses for why he's not chasing me. Right now I feel like he either needs to grow up, stop being lazy, or it's the bottom line...he's just not that into me.

 

Am I right, or am I wrong?

[sugarmomma]

Let me get this straight.

 

• He didn't take your number
  
• You had to reach out to him on fb
  
• You text him and he still doesn't respond favorably
  

Do you really need to ask if he's into you? Absolutely not. He was in the same house with you the day you met but he didn't take any initiative to chat with you. Even after that you start chasing him?

 

 

Please stop this foolishness. He doesn't see you in that way. Let it go and move on. I would tell my girlfriend to shut her pie hole. How can you even listen to her based on his ACTIONS?

 

 

 

I don't need a book to tell me when a man isn't interested. Its plain as day. Save your money next time and just go with what God gave you- instincts.

[lululucy]

I really dislike that book but in this case you're 100% right. He has your number, he could contact you (especially since you made an effort the first two times). If you see him on New Years, be friendly but don't get your hopes up.

[musemaj11]

One (man or woman) only needs to make a couple attempts at initiating in order to find out whether someone is into him/her or not.

 

I dont believe in persistence. To me its just another word for desperateness.

[NoMagicBullet]

You're right and your friend is wrong -- he's not interested. Not anymore, anyway, if he really was. I kind of wonder if your friend wasn't as proactive about setting the two of you up in the beginning as she claims, and is trying to assuage some of her guilt or something by pushing you to go after him. After all, it was her husband's idea, not hers. And she really flaked out on you about that trip. Not cool. Sorry, just my paranoia acting up again.

 

I've had female friends try to set me up with guys I've never met, but I was open to meeting new people. I'd say "give him my number." I'd never get a call. The first time, I followed up with my female friend and got "he's shy" several times, before finally getting "he thinks you're too smart for him". Greeeeaaaaaat. Now when confronted with the same sitution, I never bother to follow up; I pretty much assume it's going nowhere.

 

As much as our friends supposedly push us toward these men, I question to what extent they actually work with the guy on our behalf. Although it's irrelevant now to your case -- sorry for the digression. And it may have had no bearing anyway.

 

But again, you're right. He's not that into you. It's unfortunate and annoying that you're friend keeps making excuses for him.

Edited December 27, 2011 by NoMagicBullet
Quotes didn't display the first time

[radrluv72]

Do you really need to ask if he's into you? Absolutely not. He was in the same house with you the day you met but he didn't take any initiative to chat with you. Even after that you start chasing him?

 

Well, that's not entirely correct. I was there for a pretty long time that night, and he did come out on the porch as the football game started winding down & started chatting me up. So it wasn't like he was totally ignoring me, and I wasn't necessarily throwing myself at him.

 

My whole question was as to whether my gut instinct about the whole situatioin--especially after this length of time--was correct. And I still think that I am. The last thing I want to do is start making "assumptions" about what he may be thinking. That's what I used to do and it just got me into trouble. Proud to say that I don't do it anymore.

[grkBoy]

I think he likes you, but is lazy and doesn't want to take on any of the risk.

 

Total red flag.

 

 

I hate when women get all "over the top" on lumping the risk on the man, but this is ridiculous. He could have gotten your number that night at the football game, or called you and either had conversations to get to know you more, or....GASP....asked you out.

 

Forget him. Until he wants to grow a set, then he can remain single. All of this sounds like he wants Holly to take on all the risk and do all the work.

[Feelsgoodman]

My whole question was as to whether my gut instinct about the whole situatioin--especially after this length of time--was correct. And I still think that I am. The last thing I want to do is start making "assumptions" about what he may be thinking. That's what I used to do and it just got me into trouble. Proud to say that I don't do it anymore.

Well, it's hard to say. He could be extremely shy, as you friend says (if he is indeed a 31 year old virgin who has never had a girlfriend, it's more than likely). If that's the case, you'll never have him chasing, I can assure you of that. Contrary to what your stupid book says, most men do not enjoying "chasing" women. The whole concept of "enjoying the thrill of the chase" is a huge misconception.

 

There are three types of men out there: (a) men who are very popular with women, (b) men who are not very popular with women but are not shy/introverted, and © men who are not very popular with women and are shy/introverted. Men in Group A don't chase women because they don't have to and men in Group C (your guy) don't chase because they can't bring themselves to do it. The only guys who chase women are those in Group B, as they recognize that it is something they have to do and can stomach the process, even if they don't necessarily enjoy it (and most of them don't).

 

With the guy in question, in order for something to happen, you would have to be chasing him, at least initially. Think about it...the guy did not end up being a 31 year old virgin for no reason. Basically, it's up to you to make it happen.

 

Of course, him being shy does not preclude the possibility that he's simply not into you. But it's impossible to make a conclusive determination based on the information you provided.

[radrluv72]

Well, it's hard to say. He could be extremely shy, as you friend says (if he is indeed a 31 year old virgin who has never had a girlfriend, it's more than likely). If that's the case, you'll never have him chasing, I can assure you of that. Contrary to what your stupid book says, most men do not enjoying "chasing" women. The whole concept of "enjoying the thrill of the chase" is a huge misconception.

 

There are three types of men out there: (a) men who are very popular with women, (b) men who are not very popular with women but are not shy/introverted, and © men who are not very popular with women and are shy/introverted. Men in Group A don't chase women because they don't have to and men in Group C (your guy) don't chase because they can't bring themselves to do it. The only guys who chase women are those in Group B, as they recognize that it is something they have to do and can stomach the process, even if they don't necessarily enjoy it (and most of them don't).

 

With the guy in question, in order for something to happen, you would have to be chasing him, at least initially. Think about it...the guy did not end up being a 31 year old virgin for no reason. Basically, it's up to you to make it happen.

 

Of course, him being shy does not preclude the possibility that he's simply not into you. But it's impossible to make a conclusive determination based on the information you provided.

 

Lol...interesting response. Well, here's what I know about the guy from what I'm told by my friend...and of course, I'm doing this at the risk of sounding like I'm dissecting a man I barely know, but I know well the dangers of being presumptive, and that's definitely what I don't want to do.

 

My friend tells me that the guy in question is always the "comedian"...always trying to be funny, always the goof. He has a lot of girls that are friends, but supposedly has not had a serious girlfriend since high school because whatever happened, his heart was broke. And I say supposedly because my friend says she's never known him to date anyone since she's been with her husband (12 years). I take that with a grain of salt because just because she's not actually seeing or hearing about it, doesn't mean that he's not dating. I think that she's making the assumption that he's still a virgin based on the fact that all of her husband's close group of friends are married to the girls that they lost their virginity. She's also told me that in past conversations with him, he's talked about how he could probably go out at any time & have sex, but it just doesn't interest him. The virginity factor doesn't matter to me at all, but she likes to bring up the subject when we discuss this guy.

 

I accept the possibility that yes, he could be shy with women. I also understand that yes, he has busy social life, he started a new job a couple of months ago, he's looking to get his own place & move out of his buddy's place...lots of things going on. But I just don't want to get into the dangerous place (as a lot of women can do) of making excuses for why he hasn't called. Yes, there are exceptions to the "rule". But if I start thinking that this is an exception--or rather, that I'm an exception--I'm just setting myself up. I don't have any doubts that he was interested when we first met; the morning after we first met, he texted my friend's husband saying, "I like your friend Havvy"...then promptly explained that he was calling me "Havvy" because he "had to have me" (yikes). But I just don't think it's that way anymore...I think things might have puttered out after the camping trip debaucle...or did that sound like an assumption.

 

And BTW, you think the book is stupid? Funny how people are with that thing, they either love it or hate it. For me personally, it's been a big help, and I was happy find that it wasn't full of man-bashing. I can live without that crap.

 

Thanks for the input.

[radrluv72]

I think he likes you, but is lazy and doesn't want to take on any of the risk.

 

Total red flag.

 

 

I hate when women get all "over the top" on lumping the risk on the man, but this is ridiculous. He could have gotten your number that night at the football game, or called you and either had conversations to get to know you more, or....GASP....asked you out.

 

Forget him. Until he wants to grow a set, then he can remain single. All of this sounds like he wants Holly to take on all the risk and do all the work.

 

Thank you, thank you, thank you...thank you. Aside from staking myself to the ground & covering myself with chocolate, I don't know how else I could make it any more clear to this guy that yes, I'm interested. Let's talk. You're golden. Frankly, right now I'm the mindset that he's either hung up on the girl who broke his heart a million years ago & can't let himself get over it, or he needs to dropped on his head.

 

Well, I'm going to my friend's place for NYE, and he knows where I'll be. If he decides to may an appearance, great. If not, more beer for me. Amen.

[radrluv72]

I really dislike that book but in this case you're 100% right. He has your number, he could contact you (especially since you made an effort the first two times). If you see him on New Years, be friendly but don't get your hopes up.

 

Agreed.

[radrluv72]

One (man or woman) only needs to make a couple attempts at initiating in order to find out whether someone is into him/her or not.

 

I dont believe in persistence. To me its just another word for desperateness.

 

Yeah, and my attempts have been made...my gut tells me anything more than the friendly gestures I've put forward would be too much. At this point, with all the feedback that I've been getting but lack of any action on this guy's part, I'm pretty much throwing up my hands and saying, "what the hell, this is rediculous". He's not the only guy that I've had my eye on, he just happened to be the one that I had the most interest in lately. But one can only do so much. I don't have enough invested in this matter to make myself look like an ass.

[Feelsgoodman]

And BTW, you think the book is stupid? Funny how people are with that thing, they either love it or hate it. For me personally, it's been a big help, and I was happy find that it wasn't full of man-bashing. I can live without that crap.

Any book that says that men "like to chase" is stupid by definition. It's like saying that women enjoying being physically abused...yes, there are some women who respond well to that kind of treatment, but I would imagine that most do not...

[radrluv72]

You're right and your friend is wrong -- he's not interested. Not anymore, anyway, if he really was. I kind of wonder if your friend wasn't as proactive about setting the two of you up in the beginning as she claims, and is trying to assuage some of her guilt or something by pushing you to go after him. After all, it was her husband's idea, not hers. And she really flaked out on you about that trip. Not cool. Sorry, just my paranoia acting up again.

 

I've had female friends try to set me up with guys I've never met, but I was open to meeting new people. I'd say "give him my number." I'd never get a call. The first time, I followed up with my female friend and got "he's shy" several times, before finally getting "he thinks you're too smart for him". Greeeeaaaaaat. Now when confronted with the same sitution, I never bother to follow up; I pretty much assume it's going nowhere.

 

As much as our friends supposedly push us toward these men, I question to what extent they actually work with the guy on our behalf. Although it's irrelevant now to your case -- sorry for the digression. And it may have had no bearing anyway.

 

But again, you're right. He's not that into you. It's unfortunate and annoying that you're friend keeps making excuses for him.

 

The thing about the camping trip...well, that's interesting, because I think the way that whole thing played out the way that it did was because my friend jumped the gun in even inviting me. Intially it was 5 couples going that weekend and this guy my friend has been trying to get me with. It was someone's birthday that weekend and the whole point of the trip was to celebrate. When I couldn't make it to the hockey game, my friend immeadiately invited me out the camping trip. I came to find out--through her--that after she'd issued me the invitation, that maybe she might have overstepped because I don't know the friend of hers who was having the birthday. So therefore, she never "got back" to me about plans for the trip & explained to me what happened after everything was said & done. Fine, I get that, but the whole thing just made me kind of roll my eyes because it was kind of lame what she did. But I like said, after I heard about the drama that went on between the wives that weekend, it's probably a blessing that I didn't wind up going.

 

I don't doubt that my friend really believes that she's right and I'm wrong, but it makes me nuts how she's constantly comparing this matter to how she got her own husband, because I don't see her husband & this guy as being the same people. Her husband is very quiet, barely social, and she's definitely the opposite. I mean, he's quiet to the point of being scary, like if you look at him the wrong way he'll snap your arm of & eat it for breakfast. This friend of his isn't anything like that. He's the comedian, the goofball, always the life of the party. I don't care she had to chase her own husband down for 2 months to get anything going with him when they started dating. That has nothing to do with this.

 

I know my friend is being insistent because she cares about me, and despite some forgiveable screw-ups, I know she just wants to see me happy. I voluntarily didn't date for 10 years and only started dating again 2 years ago, and it's been rough. She just wants to see me with a nice guy, and that's fine. But I just don't think that she gets the behavior that got me into trouble for the past couple of years & finally get smart about, is the exact behavior that she's trying to encourage me to get back into. The assumptions, the dissections of a person I barely know, the pushiness...yeah, so attractive. And the stupid thing is, is that she lectured me about this kind of stupid behavior not 5 months ago. Hello, what?!

 

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Maybe I need to write this on her face with Sharpie if she passes out on me on NYE.

[radrluv72]

Any book that says that men "like to chase" is stupid by definition. It's like saying that women enjoying being physically abused...yes, there are some women who respond well to that kind of treatment, but I would imagine that most do not...

 

 

Lol...well, I don't think that's quite what they meant, but I see where you're coming from.

[jobaba]

Where things are at now, is that it's been almost 3 months since I first met the guy, and I have yet to hang out with him again, and I'm getting annoyed. Don't get me wrong--it's not like I'm leaving myself closed off to any other possibilities, because that would be pretty stupid. But there are certain facts that really make me wonder if this guy is into hanging out with me again as much as my friend insists that he is. For those of you who have read "Not into You", you can probably see why. Here are the facts:

 

Well. You met the guy once three months ago and have not had a conversation with him since. Yet, somehow you are all beat up over him.

 

Odd to see a woman on LS in this compromising position.

 

I'll tell you what I tell all the LS dudes. Get your a@@ of the couch and go play the numbers!

[radrluv72]

Well. You met the guy once three months ago and have not had a conversation with him since. Yet, somehow you are all beat up over him.

 

Odd to see a woman on LS in this compromising position.

 

I'll tell you what I tell all the LS dudes. Get your a@@ of the couch and go play the numbers!

 

But who said that I was "beat up"? Certainly not I...my emotional involvement is a big fat zero. What prompted this post was my friend's insistence that I start to be more forceful on matter, and based on what my gut is telling me, I just don't feel comfortable about it. Kind of like when you walk into Bath & Body Works with the intention of buying one thing and next thing you know you walk out of there with six items because the pushy salesgirl insisted that buy three, get three free was such a great deal. Now you have five extra bottles of crap that you don't need. I'm getting annoyed about being pressured and being told that I'm wrong when every part of me is screaming that I'm not.

 

...Or am I misinterpreting your use of "beat up"?

[FitChick]

I think he's gay and still in the closet. Over the years I've heard both gay men and women say the story they used to throw others off the track was either they were in love or engaged to someone who was killed in a car accident or that person dumped them and broke their heart and they never got over it. Seriously.