How do I not be single this time next year?

[jobaba]

Certainly, counterman, I don't think there's anything wrong with that. It's just a different preference. I prefer a guy who is really interested in me and takes the time and effort to win me over and court me. That takes precendence over many other things such as his height, money, appearance, etc, for me. Other women will certainly differ.

 

The problem with that is ... a lot of men (particularly those having trouble) have tried that approach: trying to win a woman's heart or getting to know a woman platonically and slowly so they can appreciate her for qualities other than her looks ... and it has ended up in the friendzone.

 

It sounds contrary to logic, but the path of least resistance is hitting on enough women until you find one that likes you or will give you an OBVIOUS chance.

 

Trying to win a woman over who is not clearly interested in you is a LOT of heartbreak. I did that for YEARS with a woman and had to watch her date other guys. Yet she kept throwing me signs that if I hung on, she'd come around. Excruciating ... continuing to chase her was by far the worst decision I ever made in my life.

 

Now ... making a woman whom YOU ARE DATING feel special is different. And some guys are going to have to hit on 20 women a month to get to that.

[zengirl]

Trying to win a woman over who is not clearly interested in you is a LOT of heartbreak. I did that for YEARS with a woman and had to watch her date other guys. Yet she kept throwing me signs that if I hung on, she'd come around. Excruciating ... continuing to chase her was by far the worst decision I ever made in my life.

 

Now ... making a woman whom YOU ARE DATING feel special is different. And some guys are going to have to hit on 20 women a month to get to that.

 

Yes, it's lovely to make someone who IS special in your life feel special. And I think it's fine to make platonic friends feel special too, but treating someone special because you have romantic feelings whereas they don't is just silly. Treat someone the way you would treat them for the relationship you HAVE with them, not the relationship you want. Now, that still means there are a variety of ways to treat people --- many people treat friends or even strangers with respect, courtesy, kindness, and even generosity. It's not like you have to go around treating people like crap. But don't hang on, waiting for something. That's just a bummer.

[Jynxx]

Case in point: I would totally dismiss a guy if I knew he was asking out 20 girls a month (and if you live in a small town or are asking around a small community like college, word gets out, believe me). To me, that indicates that he's not actually interested in me, he sees me as just another fish in the sea.

 

No guy goes out with 20 girls a month. Hell, if any rich/famous/popular hollywoodstar wanted to go out with 20 girls a month he probably wouldn't make it. You're projecting how easy it is for girls to find a sucker to go out with on guys, and that's delusional.

[homersheineken]

Yep, agreed completely.

 

 

Case in point: I would totally dismiss a guy if I knew he was asking out 20 girls a month (and if you live in a small town or are asking around a small community like college, word gets out, believe me). To me, that indicates that he's not actually interested in me, he sees me as just another fish in the sea.

 

However, there are women who do not mind, or who like that. So basically learn from experimentation, find out what appeals to the sort of woman you like. And move from there.

 

That's silly. What if you were THE one (and I was to you) but it can't happen because I asked out other girls?? I happen to be quite selective, contrary to what you think, and I know what I want. The best way to find that is to keep looking then. And how would you know if someone is "interested" in you after meeting them for say 20 mins? Real interest doesn't really happen until you've gone out.

 

It's always better to err on the side of bold/assertion. Fortune favors the bold. Picking one girl out and then going crazy over her for months to show you're "interested" doesn't really work - ask the OP....

[somedude81]

Ah, finally LS is back. I've been waiting to return to this thread.

I told you that before. Because your unhappiness and bitterness is seeping through every pore of you. You think you can hide it, but people pick up on it.

I really wish I had some way to know if this was true or not. I honestly that it doens't come out.

 

I know I sound very negative when I post here and I am because I feel at my lowest when I'm sitting at my desk. But when I'm out with people, especially girls, I'm not down at all. I love being around and talking to girls. So I really don't think that anybody has gotten the impression that I'm unhappy.

The bad news is, you have to learn to do it before, otherwise you won't be able to attract women. Or just those who are really unhappy and naive.

For some reason, I just don't think it's necessary to be a super happy guy to get a girl.

 

Either way, trying to become happy while single seems to be about just as hard as getting a girl. Frankly, I'd rather work on getting what I want instead of learning how to cope without it.

 

I do that, too, sometimes and so does everybody else. You need to learn to control that.

Control feeling lonely? How?

DonJuan has it right, you need to love yourself, and you don't. Here's a story for you. When I was younger, I switched schools and I was teased badly... called names, food thrown at me, you name it. It really messed me up, I got really paranoid and thought everyone was against me. Later I was switched back to the public school and back to my old friends. I STILL thought I was a loser. It didn't help that I grew up in an abusive family, so I had zero self-esteem. I was friendly with people but I felt like I had nothing to offer, until my senior year. You might be surprised to know that during this time I had a longterm boyfriend, lots of friends, was a cheerleader, and acted in plays and musicals. When some girl I knew casually said I was popular, I did a double take. I had let my self-esteem get so low, and allowed my past to damage me so much, and it was ALL IN MY HEAD. After this, I came to the conclusion that I needed to, if nothing else, PRETEND that I was the ****, no matter what. I started approaching people that I never thought would talk to me, and they talked to me. I tried new things and took some chances, got beyond my comfort zone.

It's obvious to see why you had low self-esteem even though you had a boyfriend and were popular, you were teased badly before and grew up in an abusive family. That was too much to overcome simply by having a social life and dating.

 

I haven't gone through any of that. For as much as I can tell, I have poor self-esteem because girls have never liked me. That's it. Everything I dislike about myself, I do so because I feel that it's a handicap in trying to attract women.

 

Pretending that I'm the sh*t isn't going to do anything for me.

 

 

The only reason people reject you is because either because they aren't attracted and never would be no matter what, or you don't attract them because you view yourself as a loser and that is carried in your demeanor and attitude no matter what you say. When I stopped expecting people to reject me, they stopped rejecting me in general. Now I'm a confident woman and I never have any trouble finding friends or guys and no one has guessed that I was such a nerd back when.

I'm going to go with the thought that girls are rejecting me is because they aren't attracted to me.

 

I know what I am, and I can understand why women are not physically attracted to me.

 

Honestly, I think my personality is fine, but there are a few things I'm doing wrong when it comes to women. I'm hoping that once I figure those out, I might actually have a fighting chance.

 

 

 

 

I'm telling you this because I want you to realize that you are a great person with a lot to offer and the person who fails to see this is YOU. Not the women, not friends or family. Once you realize you are great in general, you can learn not to take rejection so personally. Can you improve? Sure. Get a passion, take up a hobby. Learn a language, play a sport, an instrument, whatever. Find something you love and go with it. But realize that you yourself are great however you are and everything else is icing on the cake. When you realize that you are great, and you ask a girl out and she says no, then you realize that she wasn't into you but someone else will be.

But no g.. oh wait.

 

I know you will say, "but no girl has ever said yes". That may be so, but it sounds like that has a lot more to do with your approach. You meet girls, try to befriend them, then get put into the friendzone - BECAUSE YOU BEFRIENDED THEM.

Then you try to get them to change their mind

Yes, I know my approach is wrong. That's why I made this thread.

 

I'm done with the friendship thing. Last year I tried to turn a friendzone into a relationship and it just didn't work.

 

 

...often by indirectly asking them out which to me sounds like you are trying to trick them into a date so you won't get rejected.

That is a very astute observation.

 

I have tried the direct approach before. Guess how well that worked out for me.

 

What I need to do is find the proper balance between direct and indirect.

 

Somehow I need to let a woman get to know me enough that she can change her negative first impression of me (based on how I look) into something somewhat positive so that she might say yes if I ask her out.

 

Taking too long ask somebody out obviously doesn't work. And asking somebody out too soon gives the same result. Heck, I doubt there is a woman alive who would say yes to me if I asked her out within 20 min of meeting her.

 

I know you want to get to know someone before you ask them out on a date, but that is the reverse of what you should be doing. You should actually ask someone out on a date TO GET TO KNOW THEM. You immediately declare your intentions to the girl, and then see where it goes.

And what should my intentions be? How should I let them be known?

 

Getting to know someone and then asking them out is a weird way to go about it.

WHY?!

 

Why is it wrong to see if a girl and I get along and have common interests/hobbies before I ask her out?

 

Why is it better to ask out a total stranger, and hope that we have things in common while we watch each other eat?

When people say ask out someone you don't know, that's simply because if you go up to a girl and have 10 min of conversation and ask her out, she doesn't know you from Adam. She can't really reject you (even if she says no) cause she doesn't know you. She's more likely to say yes because she has seen less negative qualities and has had no time to think over her feelings about you. It's a reaction-decision. The odds are higher that you will get a date if you try it this way.

If I ask out a girl within 10 min of conversation, she is going to base her decision of yes or no on how almost completely on how I look. Another part of that is going to be on her first impression of me and when I'm around new girls I'm often shy and nervous and don't talk a lot.

 

Seriously what woman would accept a date from a guy she doesn't know, who is basically an average looking short guy that's quiet?

 

 

These are just a few scenarios, but there are certainly more. And I often do say no. Sometimes I am not interested, or I have a boyfriend. But sometimes I do say yes.

Thank you for the scenarios that you listed.

 

As expected, you would say no to the majority of them. So the question is, why do you say yes? How many of those have went to a second date or more?

 

Also, I'm sure you're aware, that random men who are asking you out, without knowing you, are only doing so because they want to sleep with you. And it's all about how you look. Your personality is irrelevant.

 

And it's as simple as approaching women ANYWHERE. At the store, on the street, etc. Nothing to do? Head to a coffee shop or something. Go to a museum. Check out some live music at a bar. In all cases, try to talk to some girls, even if you don't want to ask them out. Just get used to striking up conversations with someone you don't know. The point is to get comfortable enough so that when you actually DO like someone it's much less nerve-racking.

That I can work on.

 

Finally PLEASE don't say anything remotely sexual when you are trying to ask a girl out. If you ask a woman to motorboat her, she's just going to look at you funny and walk away. I am not saying you would, but a few guys have suggested saying something crazy like that. DON'T.

LOL!

 

No, I never say remotely sexual things to women, ever.

---

That's all for now, I'll reply to more posts later, stay tuned.

[jobaba]

If I ask out a girl within 10 min of conversation, she is going to base her decision of yes or no on how almost completely on how I look. Another part of that is going to be on her first impression of me and when I'm around new girls I'm often shy and nervous and don't talk a lot.

 

Seriously what woman would accept a date from a guy she doesn't know, who is basically an average looking short guy that's quiet?

 

Big mistake in your thinking. I had the same train of thought as you, which is as follows:

 

"Well. I'm not the best looking or tallest guy, so she'll probably reject me if I ask her out too soon. So ... I'll go the friends first route. She'll get to know me and the wonderful guy that I am and then voila ... I'm in."

 

How well has that approach worked for you thus far, SD?

 

There ARE women who will take a chance on you without knowing much about you. I guarantee it. You just have to wade through a bunch of them to find them.

 

Confidence...

[Dust]

LOL!

 

No, I never say remotely sexual things to women, ever.

---

That's all for now, I'll reply to more posts later, stay tuned.

 

Actions speak louder then words. Pinch some butt cheeks and twist some nipples and you'll be a happy man.

 

Now start saying, and more importantly doing sexual things with women.

 

You know you've had oportunities and done nothing... time to change that.

 

Ask women out. Then when on dates with the women that go out with you make a fricken move. Please for once in your whiney life do something about it.

[PlumPrincess]

I know I sound very negative when I post here and I am because I feel at my lowest when I'm sitting at my desk. But when I'm out with people, especially girls, I'm not down at all. I love being around and talking to girls. So I really don't think that anybody has gotten the impression that I'm unhappy.

For some reason, I just don't think it's necessary to be a super happy guy to get a girl.

 

Either way, trying to become happy while single seems to be about just as hard as getting a girl. Frankly, I'd rather work on getting what I want instead of learning how to cope without it.

One day, you will understand why this does not make you attractive to women.

 

Control feeling lonely? How?

You're always playing this game. You ask questions. People answer. You don't follow their suggestions. Then you ask a new question. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

I know what I am, and I can understand why women are not physically attracted to me.

 

Honestly, I think my personality is fine, but there are a few things I'm doing wrong when it comes to women. I'm hoping that once I figure those out, I might actually have a fighting chance.

You think things like your height are a problem. They're not, it's your attitude. There is this guy I met online who is 5'6". If he were here, I'd definitely go out on a date with him, because I really enjoy our conversations.

[Els]

The problem with that is ... a lot of men (particularly those having trouble) have tried that approach: trying to win a woman's heart or getting to know a woman platonically and slowly so they can appreciate her for qualities other than her looks ... and it has ended up in the friendzone.

 

It sounds contrary to logic, but the path of least resistance is hitting on enough women until you find one that likes you or will give you an OBVIOUS chance.

 

Trying to win a woman over who is not clearly interested in you is a LOT of heartbreak. I did that for YEARS with a woman and had to watch her date other guys. Yet she kept throwing me signs that if I hung on, she'd come around. Excruciating ... continuing to chase her was by far the worst decision I ever made in my life.

 

Now ... making a woman whom YOU ARE DATING feel special is different. And some guys are going to have to hit on 20 women a month to get to that.

 

Errr, I think the bolded pretty much stands for your entire post. Taking the time and effort to court her does not equate to standing around while she clearly is dating other guys or, in SD's case, says no. However, there is a huge wide spectrum between that and asking 20 girls out a month. Asking 20 girls a month out signifies to me that the man is not being discriminatory in the least, that he isn't attracted to me, I just happen to have a vagina so I go on his numbers list. Can one possibly feel something special for 20 different girls a month... 240 a year? Geez, I don't even meet 120 guys a year.

 

No guy goes out with 20 girls a month. Hell, if any rich/famous/popular hollywoodstar wanted to go out with 20 girls a month he probably wouldn't make it. You're projecting how easy it is for girls to find a sucker to go out with on guys, and that's delusional.

 

The poster quoted above (homersheineken) said he asked out 20 girls a month. Take up your beef with him, not me.

 

That's silly. What if you were THE one (and I was to you) but it can't happen because I asked out other girls?? I happen to be quite selective, contrary to what you think, and I know what I want. The best way to find that is to keep looking then. And how would you know if someone is "interested" in you after meeting them for say 20 mins? Real interest doesn't really happen until you've gone out.

 

It's always better to err on the side of bold/assertion. Fortune favors the bold. Picking one girl out and then going crazy over her for months to show you're "interested" doesn't really work - ask the OP....

 

I am entitled to my own preferences, just as you are to yours. I don't believe in just asking a girl out for a date after meeting them for 20 minutes, as well - the man is still a complete stranger in that case, and I certainly say no.

 

The OP should have stopped when the girl gave him a clear 'no' - which was about 6 months ago? That does not mean that he was wrong to do the courting slowly and in a focused manner prior to the 'no'.

 

I don't disagree that the bolded might be a good idea. As I said in my initial post, the OP should feel free to do whatever works, because different girls prefer different things. My declaration of my own preferences was simply an example of that.

 

 

I think that's lovely and my last relationship eventuated from me getting to know her and taking my time to win her over. However, it ended up as a big disappointment and left me wary of investing time to win a girl over again. So that's why I take the approach I take. I wish some girls actually took the time to get to know me better and really get to know me, instead of making assumptions and discounting me... but that's if a girl doesn't give me her time of day, there's not much I can do. I wish I met more girls without cold approaching.

 

I'm sorry you've been disappointed in the past. I imagine it's difficult for some. In that case, certainly changing your approach may be a good idea. As I said, I don't speak for all women. I'm sure some women don't mind, and the cold approach may actually work in your favour then.

[Els]

The problem with that is ... a lot of men (particularly those having trouble) have tried that approach: trying to win a woman's heart or getting to know a woman platonically and slowly so they can appreciate her for qualities other than her looks ... and it has ended up in the friendzone.

 

It sounds contrary to logic, but the path of least resistance is hitting on enough women until you find one that likes you or will give you an OBVIOUS chance.

 

Trying to win a woman over who is not clearly interested in you is a LOT of heartbreak. I did that for YEARS with a woman and had to watch her date other guys. Yet she kept throwing me signs that if I hung on, she'd come around. Excruciating ... continuing to chase her was by far the worst decision I ever made in my life.

 

Now ... making a woman whom YOU ARE DATING feel special is different. And some guys are going to have to hit on 20 women a month to get to that.

 

Errr, I think the bolded pretty much stands for your entire post. Taking the time and effort to court her does not equate to standing around while she clearly is dating other guys or, in SD's case, says no. However, there is a huge wide spectrum between that and asking 20 girls out a month. Asking 20 girls a month out signifies to me that the man is not being discriminatory in the least, that he isn't attracted to me, I just happen to have a vagina so I go on his numbers list. Can one possibly feel something special for 20 different girls a month... 240 a year? Geez, I don't even meet 120 guys a year.

 

No guy goes out with 20 girls a month. Hell, if any rich/famous/popular hollywoodstar wanted to go out with 20 girls a month he probably wouldn't make it. You're projecting how easy it is for girls to find a sucker to go out with on guys, and that's delusional.

 

The poster quoted above (homersheineken) said he asked out 20 girls a month. Take up your beef with him, not me.

 

That's silly. What if you were THE one (and I was to you) but it can't happen because I asked out other girls?? I happen to be quite selective, contrary to what you think, and I know what I want. The best way to find that is to keep looking then. And how would you know if someone is "interested" in you after meeting them for say 20 mins? Real interest doesn't really happen until you've gone out.

 

It's always better to err on the side of bold/assertion. Fortune favors the bold. Picking one girl out and then going crazy over her for months to show you're "interested" doesn't really work - ask the OP....

 

I am entitled to my own preferences, just as you are to yours. I don't believe in just asking a girl out for a date after meeting them for 20 minutes, as well - the man is still a complete stranger in that case, and I certainly say no.

 

The OP should have stopped when the girl gave him a clear 'no' - which was about 6 months ago? That does not mean that he was wrong to do the courting slowly and in a focused manner prior to the 'no'.

 

I don't disagree that the bolded might be a good idea. As I said in my initial post, the OP should feel free to do whatever works, because different girls prefer different things. My declaration of my own preferences was simply an example of that.

 

 

I think that's lovely and my last relationship eventuated from me getting to know her and taking my time to win her over. However, it ended up as a big disappointment and left me wary of investing time to win a girl over again. So that's why I take the approach I take. I wish some girls actually took the time to get to know me better and really get to know me, instead of making assumptions and discounting me... but that's if a girl doesn't give me her time of day, there's not much I can do. I wish I met more girls without cold approaching.

 

I'm sorry you've been disappointed in the past. I imagine it's difficult for some. In that case, certainly changing your approach may be a good idea. As I said, I don't speak for all women. I'm sure some women don't mind, and the cold approach may actually work in your favour then.

[Els]

The problem with that is ... a lot of men (particularly those having trouble) have tried that approach: trying to win a woman's heart or getting to know a woman platonically and slowly so they can appreciate her for qualities other than her looks ... and it has ended up in the friendzone.

 

It sounds contrary to logic, but the path of least resistance is hitting on enough women until you find one that likes you or will give you an OBVIOUS chance.

 

Trying to win a woman over who is not clearly interested in you is a LOT of heartbreak. I did that for YEARS with a woman and had to watch her date other guys. Yet she kept throwing me signs that if I hung on, she'd come around. Excruciating ... continuing to chase her was by far the worst decision I ever made in my life.

 

Now ... making a woman whom YOU ARE DATING feel special is different. And some guys are going to have to hit on 20 women a month to get to that.

 

Errr, I think the bolded pretty much stands for your entire post. Taking the time and effort to court her does not equate to standing around while she clearly is dating other guys or, in SD's case, says no. However, there is a huge wide spectrum between that and asking 20 girls out a month. Asking 20 girls a month out signifies to me that the man is not being discriminatory in the least, that he isn't attracted to me, I just happen to have a vagina so I go on his numbers list. Can one possibly feel something special for 20 different girls a month... 240 a year? Geez, I don't even meet 120 guys a year.

 

No guy goes out with 20 girls a month. Hell, if any rich/famous/popular hollywoodstar wanted to go out with 20 girls a month he probably wouldn't make it. You're projecting how easy it is for girls to find a sucker to go out with on guys, and that's delusional.

 

The poster quoted above (homersheineken) said he asked out 20 girls a month. Take up your beef with him, not me.

 

That's silly. What if you were THE one (and I was to you) but it can't happen because I asked out other girls?? I happen to be quite selective, contrary to what you think, and I know what I want. The best way to find that is to keep looking then. And how would you know if someone is "interested" in you after meeting them for say 20 mins? Real interest doesn't really happen until you've gone out.

 

It's always better to err on the side of bold/assertion. Fortune favors the bold. Picking one girl out and then going crazy over her for months to show you're "interested" doesn't really work - ask the OP....

 

I am entitled to my own preferences, just as you are to yours. I don't believe in just asking a girl out for a date after meeting them for 20 minutes, as well - the man is still a complete stranger in that case, and I certainly say no.

 

The OP should have stopped when the girl gave him a clear 'no' - which was about 6 months ago? That does not mean that he was wrong to do the courting slowly and in a focused manner prior to the 'no'.

 

I don't disagree that the bolded might be a good idea. As I said in my initial post, the OP should feel free to do whatever works, because different girls prefer different things. My declaration of my own preferences was simply an example of that.

 

 

I think that's lovely and my last relationship eventuated from me getting to know her and taking my time to win her over. However, it ended up as a big disappointment and left me wary of investing time to win a girl over again. So that's why I take the approach I take. I wish some girls actually took the time to get to know me better and really get to know me, instead of making assumptions and discounting me... but that's if a girl doesn't give me her time of day, there's not much I can do. I wish I met more girls without cold approaching.

 

I'm sorry you've been disappointed in the past. I imagine it's difficult for some. In that case, certainly changing your approach may be a good idea. As I said, I don't speak for all women. I'm sure some women don't mind, and the cold approach may actually work in your favour then.

[Els]

The problem with that is ... a lot of men (particularly those having trouble) have tried that approach: trying to win a woman's heart or getting to know a woman platonically and slowly so they can appreciate her for qualities other than her looks ... and it has ended up in the friendzone.

 

It sounds contrary to logic, but the path of least resistance is hitting on enough women until you find one that likes you or will give you an OBVIOUS chance.

 

Trying to win a woman over who is not clearly interested in you is a LOT of heartbreak. I did that for YEARS with a woman and had to watch her date other guys. Yet she kept throwing me signs that if I hung on, she'd come around. Excruciating ... continuing to chase her was by far the worst decision I ever made in my life.

 

Now ... making a woman whom YOU ARE DATING feel special is different. And some guys are going to have to hit on 20 women a month to get to that.

 

Errr, I think the bolded pretty much stands for your entire post. Taking the time and effort to court her does not equate to standing around while she clearly is dating other guys or, in SD's case, says no. However, there is a huge wide spectrum between that and asking 20 girls out a month. Asking 20 girls a month out signifies to me that the man is not being discriminatory in the least, that he isn't attracted to me, I just happen to have a vagina so I go on his numbers list. Can one possibly feel something special for 20 different girls a month... 240 a year? Geez, I don't even meet 120 guys a year.

 

No guy goes out with 20 girls a month. Hell, if any rich/famous/popular hollywoodstar wanted to go out with 20 girls a month he probably wouldn't make it. You're projecting how easy it is for girls to find a sucker to go out with on guys, and that's delusional.

 

The poster quoted above (homersheineken) said he asked out 20 girls a month. Take up your beef with him, not me.

 

That's silly. What if you were THE one (and I was to you) but it can't happen because I asked out other girls?? I happen to be quite selective, contrary to what you think, and I know what I want. The best way to find that is to keep looking then. And how would you know if someone is "interested" in you after meeting them for say 20 mins? Real interest doesn't really happen until you've gone out.

 

It's always better to err on the side of bold/assertion. Fortune favors the bold. Picking one girl out and then going crazy over her for months to show you're "interested" doesn't really work - ask the OP....

 

I am entitled to my own preferences, just as you are to yours. I don't believe in just asking a girl out for a date after meeting them for 20 minutes, as well - the man is still a complete stranger in that case, and I certainly say no.

 

The OP should have stopped when the girl gave him a clear 'no' - which was about 6 months ago? That does not mean that he was wrong to do the courting slowly and in a focused manner prior to the 'no'.

 

I don't disagree that the bolded might be a good idea. As I said in my initial post, the OP should feel free to do whatever works, because different girls prefer different things. My declaration of my own preferences was simply an example of that.

 

 

I think that's lovely and my last relationship eventuated from me getting to know her and taking my time to win her over. However, it ended up as a big disappointment and left me wary of investing time to win a girl over again. So that's why I take the approach I take. I wish some girls actually took the time to get to know me better and really get to know me, instead of making assumptions and discounting me... but that's if a girl doesn't give me her time of day, there's not much I can do. I wish I met more girls without cold approaching.

 

I'm sorry you've been disappointed in the past. I imagine it's difficult for some. In that case, certainly changing your approach may be a good idea. As I said, I don't speak for all women. I'm sure some women don't mind, and the cold approach may actually work in your favour then.

[counterman]

 

I'm sorry you've been disappointed in the past. I imagine it's difficult for some. In that case, certainly changing your approach may be a good idea. As I said, I don't speak for all women. I'm sure some women don't mind, and the cold approach may actually work in your favour then.

 

Some women won't mind and some will, but the thing is I don't want to cold approach. I wish I could meet more girls without cold approaching. The fact of that matter is that when I don't cold approach, I get zero dates. However, I believe there is no one way of doing things. Like you said, we each have our own preferences. I don't necessarily prefer cold approaching, but it works for me. But I'm thinking I could better my chances of dating and meeting someone I could be in a relationship with by taking other approaches at the same time. That's why I really appreciate your point of view because I know some of the girls I've cold approached were probably repulsed or even creeped out by it.

 

I would love to know how you would like to be approached and what you would prefer a guy do, say, from the moment he first meets you?

[jobaba]

Errr, I think the bolded pretty much stands for your entire post. Taking the time and effort to court her does not equate to standing around while she clearly is dating other guys or, in SD's case, says no. However, there is a huge wide spectrum between that and asking 20 girls out a month. Asking 20 girls a month out signifies to me that the man is not being discriminatory in the least, that he isn't attracted to me, I just happen to have a vagina so I go on his numbers list. Can one possibly feel something special for 20 different girls a month... 240 a year? Geez, I don't even meet 120 guys a year.

 

 

The poster quoted above (homersheineken) said he asked out 20 girls a month. Take up your beef with him, not me.

 

 

 

I am entitled to my own preferences, just as you are to yours. I don't believe in just asking a girl out for a date after meeting them for 20 minutes, as well - the man is still a complete stranger in that case, and I certainly say no.

 

The OP should have stopped when the girl gave him a clear 'no' - which was about 6 months ago? That does not mean that he was wrong to do the courting slowly and in a focused manner prior to the 'no'.

 

I don't disagree that the bolded might be a good idea. As I said in my initial post, the OP should feel free to do whatever works, because different girls prefer different things. My declaration of my own preferences was simply an example of that.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry you've been disappointed in the past. I imagine it's difficult for some. In that case, certainly changing your approach may be a good idea. As I said, I don't speak for all women. I'm sure some women don't mind, and the cold approach may actually work in your favour then.

 

I understand where you are coming from. You're still in college and you're what ... like 20 years old ... and you've never had any trouble meeting any desirable men. You may have never been rejected in your life. You don't meet 120 men a year. What do you meet? 99?

 

But this thread is about SD, and your approach I believe, is not the best for him.

 

What you don't understand is ... in order for guys to think you are special, that takes time. They have to get to know the true you and special qualities. It recently took me a year to find this woman special. I fell for her hard and I got rejected.

 

Let's say SD spends 6 months getting to know a woman. Devotes his energy to her, and she friendzones him. It takes him some time to mend his broken heart, and 6 months later he's at it again, pursuing one woman again. By the end of 10 years, he may have pursued 10 women and gotten 10 rejections and be a 40 year old man who has never had a GF. That is not far from reality and that is NOT the way for guys like he and I to operate. We need some form of quantity to ensure some success. Because let's be honest ... if SD were a traditionally unbelievable catch, he wouldn't be posting this thread (not to say many women wouldn't find him awesome ).

 

If there is someone you think is more desirable, by all means pursue them with greater vigor, but always be looking for others until you KNOW FOR SURE she likes you. Then you can call off the dogs.

 

Everybody has to play the game different based on what they are given.

 

You're also still in college and probably don't realize yet that as an adult, dating is much more of a shotgun process. See Pizzaman's posts for reference.

Edited January 4, 2012 by jobaba

[Els]

Jeez, sorry about the multiple submissions. Teaches me not to spam submit when the server crashes.

 

Some women won't mind and some will, but the thing is I don't want to cold approach. I wish I could meet more girls without cold approaching. The fact of that matter is that when I don't cold approach, I get zero dates. However, I believe there is no one way of doing things. Like you said, we each have our own preferences. I don't necessarily prefer cold approaching, but it works for me. But I'm thinking I could better my chances of dating and meeting someone I could be in a relationship with by taking other approaches at the same time. That's why I really appreciate your point of view because I know some of the girls I've cold approached were probably repulsed or even creeped out by it.

 

I would love to know how you would like to be approached and what you would prefer a guy do, say, from the moment he first meets you?

 

Well, I don't have specifics, what matters to me is that he takes the time to get to know me, get to know what I enjoy and what makes me tick. Basically, yes, being a friend, but not crossing my personal friendzone boundary. To me, that boundary is when a guy asks me for help with getting other girls - that signifies to me that our friendship is purely platonic. Other women will probably have different boundaries.

 

He then uses what he knows about me, to court me in a manner that is compatible with my personality and his. This is important - he does not use any learned tricks or techniques, but an approach tailored to us. If our personalities aren't compatible, this is where it usually fizzles and I show him I'm not interested. If I find they are, I encourage it. Soon he asks me out or confesses that he likes me. So I have had very few failed first dates. We don't usually get to a first date if we were not at least somewhat compatible to begin with.

 

The soonest I have ever been asked out on an actual date, and accepted, was a week after meeting. And that was fairly quick in my opinion.

 

I understand where you are coming from. You're still in college and you're what ... like 20 years old ... and you've never had any trouble meeting any desirable men. You may have never been rejected in your life. You don't meet 120 men a year. What do you meet? 99?

 

But this thread is about SD, and your approach I believe, is not the best for him.

 

What you don't understand is ... in order for guys to think you are special, that takes time. They have to get to know the true you and special qualities. It recently took me a year to find this woman special. I fell for her hard and I got rejected.

 

Let's say SD spends 6 months getting to know a woman. Devotes his energy to her, and she friendzones him. It takes him some time to mend his broken heart, and 6 months later he's at it again, pursuing one woman again. By the end of 10 years, he may have pursued 10 women and gotten 10 rejections and be a 40 year old man who has never had a GF. That is not far from reality and that is NOT the way for guys like he and I to operate. We need some form of quantity to ensure some success. Because let's be honest ... if SD were a traditionally unbelievable catch, he wouldn't be posting this thread (not to say many women wouldn't find him awesome ).

 

If there is someone you think is more desirable, by all means pursue them with greater vigor, but always be looking for others until you KNOW FOR SURE she likes you. Then you can call off the dogs.

 

Everybody has to play the game different based on what they are given.

 

You're also still in college and probably don't realize yet that as an adult, dating is much more of a shotgun process. See Pizzaman's posts for reference.

 

I don't think it's so much my age as the culture. The American culture, honestly, seems huge on instant rewards and instant gratification. It is seen as a waste of time to get to know a person if it 'isn't going anywhere'. I don't see it as that. I'm not as young as you believe, I'm a graduate student in my mid-20s. I know many people in their 30s and above for whom the method I prefer worked. Also, if you believe I have never been rejected, you are indeed wrong. Women are not rejected in the same way men are, but when a man you are interested in clearly demonstrates that HE is not interested in you, it is as certain a rejection as being told 'no', although perhaps not as embarrassing.

 

I think SD did waste time, but I think he wasted time not because he took it slow, but because he could not make himself move on after the girl clearly declined him. Effort and persistence is useless if the person has clearly shown that they are not interested.

 

I don't deny that you risk losing more if you invest more. But my opinion is that with certain girls, girls like me, a higher investment greatly increases your chances of getting her. As I have said, again and again, I am not knocking your suggested approach. I think it would be great for SD to try. All I said was that it does not work with ME. I am sure there are women who don't mind. Please try and understand that.

[somedude81]

YOu've asked out 20 chicks in your life? You have to do A LOT more than that. I go through that in a month or 2 tops. Who cares if they say NO, that just means you're that much closer to the one.

 

And don't put so much energy into someone you don't know/haven't been out with. Keep working them, fine, but there are others you can pursue.

 

Case in point: I would totally dismiss a guy if I knew he was asking out 20 girls a month (and if you live in a small town or are asking around a small community like college, word gets out, believe me). To me, that indicates that he's not actually interested in me, he sees me as just another fish in the sea.

 

Asking 20 girls a month out signifies to me that the man is not being discriminatory in the least, that he isn't attracted to me, I just happen to have a vagina so I go on his numbers list. Can one possibly feel something special for 20 different girls a month... 240 a year? Geez, I don't even meet 120 guys a year.

Exactly.

 

I mentioned this before in my reply to SilverLining. If I'm asking out a girl within 20 minutes of meeting her; I would only do so because she's hot and I'd want to sleep with her. I simply would not know enough about her to want anything more.

 

Then a woman should know that men who ask her out without knowing who she is are only doing so because they want sex. When I realize that, I can't think of any reason why a woman would accept a date from a guy she doesn't know, unless she likes to have casual sex.

 

So no, I'm not going to ask out 20 girls a month. I'm going to bring that down to a much more manageable two girls a month, which is still more frequent than I have been doing.

 

 

Errr, I think the bolded pretty much stands for your entire post. Taking the time and effort to court her does not equate to standing around while she clearly is dating other guys or, in SD's case, says no.

 

I think SD did waste time, but I think he wasted time not because he took it slow, but because he could not make himself move on after the girl clearly declined him. Effort and persistence is useless if the person has clearly shown that they are not interested.

Does courting actually have a chance for working?

 

While I don't want to say it because I think I'm at sole fault for anything that goes wrong; the reason I couldn't get the last girl, was because she was simply not interested in dating. I don't think anybody short of Solid Snake could have gotten her. I was fighting a battle that I never had a chance of winning. So I wonder if I was trying to get a girl that wasn't closed off to the idea of relationships, that I might have had a chance.

[homersheineken]

Errr, I think the bolded pretty much stands for your entire post. Taking the time and effort to court her does not equate to standing around while she clearly is dating other guys or, in SD's case, says no. However, there is a huge wide spectrum between that and asking 20 girls out a month. Asking 20 girls a month out signifies to me that the man is not being discriminatory in the least, that he isn't attracted to me, I just happen to have a vagina so I go on his numbers list. Can one possibly feel something special for 20 different girls a month... 240 a year? Geez, I don't even meet 120 guys a year.

 

 

 

The poster quoted above (homersheineken) said he asked out 20 girls a month. Take up your beef with him, not me.

 

 

 

I am entitled to my own preferences, just as you are to yours. I don't believe in just asking a girl out for a date after meeting them for 20 minutes, as well - the man is still a complete stranger in that case, and I certainly say no.

 

The OP should have stopped when the girl gave him a clear 'no' - which was about 6 months ago? That does not mean that he was wrong to do the courting slowly and in a focused manner prior to the 'no'.

 

I don't disagree that the bolded might be a good idea. As I said in my initial post, the OP should feel free to do whatever works, because different girls prefer different things. My declaration of my own preferences was simply an example of that.

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry you've been disappointed in the past. I imagine it's difficult for some. In that case, certainly changing your approach may be a good idea. As I said, I don't speak for all women. I'm sure some women don't mind, and the cold approach may actually work in your favour then.

 

Multi-post much?

 

Sure you meet 120 guys a year. You never talk to the guy behind the deli, the clerk putting out clothes, someone on the bus, in an elevator, going for a walk, waiting in a line, some random person at a bar, the bartender, parties, social functions, work events, activities.... You'd be surprised how many people you meet (and perhaps never see again). If you make a decent impression, ask them out. They say no, move on.

[Wolf18]

Elswyth obviously has no clue about what modern 'dating' is like for a man.

 

Asking 200 women out isn't about seeing them as a vagina with a numbered post-it attached, it's about finding one that is physically attracted to you enough to want to get to know you. For a man , the hard part is getting a woman who thinks you are attractive enough to date, after that you can discover each others personalities and compatibility and see where it goes.

[homersheineken]

WHY?!

Why is it wrong to see if a girl and I get along and have common interests/hobbies before I ask her out?

Why is it better to ask out a total stranger, and hope that we have things in common while we watch each other eat?

Seriously what woman would accept a date from a guy she doesn't know, who is basically an average looking short guy that's quiet?

 

You know, for someone who has problems getting dates and getting a girl, you sure do seem to act like you know a lot about dating.

 

Spend less time "knowing" (or even questioning) about dating and more time learning it from doing it. Which means getting out there; overcoming the fear of rejection; try new things.

 

I mentioned this before in my reply to SilverLining. If I'm asking out a girl within 20 minutes of meeting her; I would only do so because she's hot and I'd want to sleep with her. I simply would not know enough about her to want anything more.

 

This makes you sound shallow. That is the point of dating 1) to get know someone 2) to have fun.

 

As PlumPrincess said: You're always playing this game. You ask questions. People answer. You don't follow their suggestions. Then you ask a new question. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

You say you don't know anything, then diffuse suggestions "knowing" what will and won't work and then continue to do the same things that don't work. I don't understand how don't realize this disconnect....

[somedude81]

You know, for someone who has problems getting dates and getting a girl, you sure do seem to act like you know a lot about dating.

 

Spend less time "knowing" (or even questioning) about dating and more time learning it from doing it. Which means getting out there; overcoming the fear of rejection; try new things.

 

 

 

This makes you sound shallow. That is the point of dating 1) to get know someone 2) to have fun.

 

As PlumPrincess said: You're always playing this game. You ask questions. People answer. You don't follow their suggestions. Then you ask a new question. Wash, rinse, repeat.

 

You say you don't know anything, then diffuse suggestions "knowing" what will and won't work and then continue to do the same things that don't work. I don't understand how don't realize this disconnect....

It's posts like this that annoy me the most.

 

It's as if I'm being told, "You are asking for help so you don't know anything. No you can't ask questions. Just do as you're told."

[iris219]

Exactly.

 

I mentioned this before in my reply to SilverLining. If I'm asking out a girl within 20 minutes of meeting her; I would only do so because she's hot and I'd want to sleep with her. I simply would not know enough about her to want anything more.

 

Then a woman should know that men who ask her out without knowing who she is are only doing so because they want sex. When I realize that, I can't think of any reason why a woman would accept a date from a guy she doesn't know, unless she likes to have casual sex.

 

Talking to someone for 20 minutes is enough time to decide if you want to get to know them better. That's why you go on dates. I don't see how asking her out after a brief conversation means you only want sex. It means you want to get to know her better.

 

Why would you talk to someone for a reasonable amount and not ask them out if you enjoyed the conversation? Depending on the situation, you may never see them again.

 

You need to start going out and socializing. Is there a cool, low key bar near your house? You need to start talking to women even if you don't plan to ask them out. You have to get comfortable having conversations with new people.

 

Things you should do: online dating and going out at night. Are you willing to do these?

[AD1980]

Elswyth obviously has no clue about what modern 'dating' is like for a man.

 

Asking 200 women out isn't about seeing them as a vagina with a numbered post-it attached, it's about finding one that is physically attracted to you enough to want to get to know you. For a man , the hard part is getting a woman who thinks you are attractive enough to date, after that you can discover each others personalities and compatibility and see where it goes.

 

Yes for the average or unattractive guy we dont have the luxury to wait for the perfect women we meet and think we click with because chances arent in our favor that the girl is gonna say yes..

[counterman]

Well, I don't have specifics, what matters to me is that he takes the time to get to know me, get to know what I enjoy and what makes me tick. Basically, yes, being a friend, but not crossing my personal friendzone boundary. To me, that boundary is when a guy asks me for help with getting other girls - that signifies to me that our friendship is purely platonic. Other women will probably have different boundaries.

 

He then uses what he knows about me, to court me in a manner that is compatible with my personality and his. This is important - he does not use any learned tricks or techniques, but an approach tailored to us. If our personalities aren't compatible, this is where it usually fizzles and I show him I'm not interested. If I find they are, I encourage it. Soon he asks me out or confesses that he likes me. So I have had very few failed first dates. We don't usually get to a first date if we were not at least somewhat compatible to begin with.

 

The soonest I have ever been asked out on an actual date, and accepted, was a week after meeting. And that was fairly quick in my opinion.

 

I have girls I call 'friends' but aren't really... they're more like acquaintances. Some of them have shown interest in me and have encouraged me to reciprocate but I am not attracted to them. These girls are usually friends of friends and I never ask out friends of friends since I had one nasty incident where the girl told EVERYONE every detail of what she thought and what I did. If I were to ever ask out one of these girls, I would take your approach with them since it's almost guaranteed that I would see them again and can develop a rapport and learn more about them.

 

If it's a girl that catches my eye randomly somewhere, I have no choice but to cold approach her. Sure there's no way of determining whether we're compatible but at least I give it a chance.

 

Talking to someone for 20 minutes is enough time to decide if you want to get to know them better. That's why you go on dates. I don't see how asking her out after a brief conversation means you only want sex. It means you want to get to know her better.

 

Why would you talk to someone for a reasonable amount and not ask them out if you enjoyed the conversation? Depending on the situation, you may never see them again.

 

You need to start going out and socializing. Is there a cool, low key bar near your house? You need to start talking to women even if you don't plan to ask them out. You have to get comfortable having conversations with new people.

 

Things you should do: online dating and going out at night. Are you willing to do these?

 

I agree with you. After 20 minutes, for sure I know whether I want to see a girl again or not. It does not mean I'm looking for sex but then again, all the girls I approach I'm physically attracted to. I'm asking them out to get to know her better, to see how compatible we are and to have a bit of fun. I ask them out to give me a chance to see them again, in the case that I may never see them again.

[jobaba]

Talking to someone for 20 minutes is enough time to decide if you want to get to know them better. That's why you go on dates. I don't see how asking her out after a brief conversation means you only want sex. It means you want to get to know her better.

 

Why would you talk to someone for a reasonable amount and not ask them out if you enjoyed the conversation? Depending on the situation, you may never see them again.

 

You need to start going out and socializing. Is there a cool, low key bar near your house? You need to start talking to women even if you don't plan to ask them out. You have to get comfortable having conversations with new people.

 

Things you should do: online dating and going out at night. Are you willing to do these?

 

For a lot of women, talking to them for 2 minutes can get a phone number. Of course, you need the good looks to pull that off.

 

But you're right, it's all in context.

 

If you were to have a half hour conversation with a woman you met at your good friend's birthday party, perhaps his co-worker, and hit it off, I don't see what woman would see it weird to exchange numbers and continue dialogue.

[Buttercup84]

Work in yourself and be happy before you try and get a date . Make this year about you . If a guy is confident , has talent and is charming then he is attractive . But I know this is shallow but if a guy does not look after his body it's a turnoff . Makes me thick he does not take care of much in his life . You don't have to look like Ryan gosling . I do wasn't attracted to my ex at first but now I think he was the sexiest man . Get your life in order first honey x