Are more men beginning to care about a womans status?

[Oxy Moronovich]

Links to these sources please. And you know whats funny about history. Its get bent around a lot. Especially by dudes trying to sell a book about someone people dont really know or care about.

 

Just sayin'

 

Either way, like I keep saying, exceptions dont disprove a rule.

 

That being said, those sources would still be nice.

Am I trying to sell a book? When did this happen?

 

Like I said before, the most credible internet sources on him are in Italian. I gave you the names of two credible English language sources on him, but those are in print.

 

But since you think history gets bent around a lot, I'm surprised you even care. You say people don't really care about him yet you ask for sources. This is the definition of trollish behavior. Trolling might turn you on, but I'm bailing, dude. I've read your posts and you seem like the type of poster who argues with anyone for any reason because that's what gets you off.

 

Good luck being young, lonely, insecure, and hurting, my friend.

[ScreamingTrees]

What are you talking about? The link works.

 

Back then, it was considered more dignified to wear a monocle than spectacles. Similarly, it was also considered more dignified to go bald than have fake hair.

 

I mentioned him in my original post to say an average man can manage to woo women with status. It isn't hopeless. It's easier than most believe.

 

All other things taken out of it, do you really believe he's average looking with his chiseled features, perfectly straight nose and symmetrical, proportionate features? Most people don't share all of those things in common. I don't think he's average, I think he looks deceivingly above average..

[Oxy Moronovich]

All other things taken out of it, do you really believe he's average looking with his chiseled features, perfectly straight nose and symmetrical, proportionate features? Most people don't share all of those things in common. I don't think he's average, I think he looks deceivingly above average..

You also have to remember the dude was around 5'6", skinny, bald since age 25, and had crooked teeth so he never smiled or laughed. If he's not average, I'd like to know what is.

[kaylan]

Am I trying to sell a book? When did this happen?

Obviously I mean the authors of the book. Its well known that biographers sometimes stretch the truth to make sales or because they like the person they are writing about a bit too much

 

Like I said before, the most credible internet sources on him are in Italian. I gave you the names of two credible English language sources on him, but those are in print.

I have friends who are Italian. I can ask them to comb through it with me sometime. I can also use google translate to comb through it.

 

Also, I speak Spanish fairly well so I can understand a little bit of Italian since the languages are related.

 

But since you think history gets bent around a lot, I'm surprised you even care. You say people don't really care about him yet you ask for sources. This is the definition of trollish behavior. Trolling might turn you on, but I'm bailing, dude. I've read your posts and you seem like the type of poster who argues with anyone for any reason because that's what gets you off.

 

Good luck being young, lonely, insecure, and hurting, my friend.

I ask for sources because I like a point to be well proven. And I am not a fan of misinformation, so I like to fact check things. Has nothing to do with trolling. Either get on with it, and back up your statements, or leave the thread. By accusing me of trolling it seems like you are trying to back away from your statements. Support your assertions, because this isnt about me.

 

I argue and stick behind my statements and wish for people to support their statements with facts and logic, as I do.

 

And actually, I dont need to be hurting my friend. I made that other thread a month ago when I was getting over a girl I was into. Nice try at trying to take a dig at me. Discuss the contents of this thread though. I smell ad hominem =/

 

The irony is that you are trying to troll me at the moment. But it aint working. Bring your facts.

All other things taken out of it, do you really believe he's average looking with his chiseled features, perfectly straight nose and symmetrical, proportionate features? Most people don't share all of those things in common. I don't think he's average, I think he looks deceivingly above average..

No hes not a bad looking fellow.

 

If he was alive today, Im sure he could shave the mustache, shave his head, get some modern style, and bag chicks.

Edited December 25, 2011 by kaylan

[ScreamingTrees]

You also have to remember the dude was around 5'6", skinny, bald since age 25, and had crooked teeth so he never smiled or laughed. If he's not average, I'd like to know what is.

 

A very handsome guy like Tom Cruise is also slightly taller than him at around 5'7, but he's had no problems, eh? Forget about his insane beliefs in space alien religions and **** like that.. I doubt he'd have problems if he wasn't rich, either, it was likely his looks that helped get him to where he'd gotten in life.

 

I'd say it's much worse that a man be obese than skinny, anyway, for health reasons primarily. I doubt he was below average height, either. Maybe by TODAY'S standards.

 

Crooked teeth or things as trivial as whether or not a person smiles doesn't totally affect one's overall appearance.. I sure as hell could see an ugly guy smiling and think it actually distorts his face even more or magnifies and further distorts unattractive facial features.. And a pretty boy with a blank expression that doesn't really add or take anything away from his attractiveness.

 

Point is, if you were trying to make a point that an average looking guy could have nothing really going for him but magically make women everywhere moist, I'm not saying it's never happened, but your example wasn't truly "average", at least to me.

Edited December 25, 2011 by ScreamingTrees

[musemaj11]

I know a few people where the husband is a stay-at-home-dad. It's not as common as a stay-at-home-mom, but it's there and can work for certain couples. I don't think that has to do with women snapping the whip and making men work. I think in general, for a lot of couples, the man working and the wife being home dealing with all the household details works better for both. I know a lot of men that are happy to go to work instead of doing laundry and cooking. And if it doesn't work, then couples can both work or the husband can stay home. I see nothing wrong with that either. Futher, indicating that the man's only option is to be workhorse really degrades everything that is required of a stay-at-home-mom, who is also clearly working yes? It's not an eaiser job if you have kids. It's just a different one.

Men prefer to be the working partner due to strong societal stigma on the idea of stay at home dad.

 

Also its ridiculous to compare being a stay at home mom with having a professional job. Unless you have a demanding and oppressive husband, being a stay at home mom you work at your own pace. There is no deadline nor pressure from your boss. Besides, what kind of parent sees caring for her own child as 'work'?

 

Don't bother, DY. This poster posted a thread about a year ago asking women if they would be willing to support a SAHD. A large portion of women said yes - at the same time, a large portion of men ridiculed SAHDs and said they would never consider being one and that childcare is a woman's job.

 

The thread ran for about 10 pages, but he clearly took nothing out of it.

Action speaks louder than words. Its easy to answer a hypothetical question. But its different when you actually have to walk the walk.

 

Only one or two women out of all the women who responded in that thread had actually had an experience in which they were willing breadwinners in their families while their men stayed home. The rest were either young women who had never been married or women who were already married to a man richer than themselves and could only talk the talk.

[FitChick]

, what kind of parent sees caring for her own child as 'work'?

.

 

You obviously have never taken care of children nor spent much time around them. Wait till you have your own!

[bean1]

You obviously have never taken care of children nor spent much time around them. Wait till you have your own!

 

Gosh no kidding. I considered going back to work a 'vacation' - my son had horrible colic/birth injury/cried 24/7 and work was relaxing... hell, I found bank robberies less stressful At least the adrenaline rush didn't get to my nerves like my crying baby and biological reaction

[bean1]

Also its ridiculous to compare being a stay at home mom with having a professional job. Unless you have a demanding and oppressive husband, being a stay at home mom you work at your own pace. There is no deadline nor pressure from your boss. Besides, what kind of parent sees caring for her own child as 'work'.

 

Musemaj, you have never been a stay at home parent, have you? I have. I've done both - a professional job in law enforcement and a stay at home mom (both at the same time too). My "BOSS" is extremely demanding of me 24/7, at least when I was at my job I could lock myself in a bathroom to take a piss rather than try and rock a crying baby, take a piss, and wipe myself at the same time. Babies that lay in cradles and sleep are for some people and Toys R Us advertisements, some of us have babies that constantly cry or are born with medical conditions (mine was blessed with colic, a broken collarbone at birth, and severe acid reflux disease with a milk allergy), if you think that isn't a demanding boss then you haven't been exposed to the nightmare that some babies can be. Try waking ever 30 minutes for 12 months straight - at 19 months, I am fortunate enough to get 3-4 hours of sleep at one time before my son's medical needs need attention.

 

Is my case exceptional? Maybe... probably. But I laugh at anyone that thinks my 'professional job' was harder than what I do now. And my 'professional job' was one of the 'high stress' ones.

[lululucy]

You also have to remember the dude was around 5'6", skinny, bald since age 25, and had crooked teeth so he never smiled or laughed. If he's not average, I'd like to know what is.

 

As mentioned, 5'6" wasn't as far below average height then as it is now. And he was married to a Duchess, how is that low-status?

[Els]

Musemaj, you have never been a stay at home parent, have you? I have. I've done both - a professional job in law enforcement and a stay at home mom (both at the same time too). My "BOSS" is extremely demanding of me 24/7, at least when I was at my job I could lock myself in a bathroom to take a piss rather than try and rock a crying baby, take a piss, and wipe myself at the same time. Babies that lay in cradles and sleep are for some people and Toys R Us advertisements, some of us have babies that constantly cry or are born with medical conditions (mine was blessed with colic, a broken collarbone at birth, and severe acid reflux disease with a milk allergy), if you think that isn't a demanding boss then you haven't been exposed to the nightmare that some babies can be. Try waking ever 30 minutes for 12 months straight - at 19 months, I am fortunate enough to get 3-4 hours of sleep at one time before my son's medical needs need attention.

 

Is my case exceptional? Maybe... probably. But I laugh at anyone that thinks my 'professional job' was harder than what I do now. And my 'professional job' was one of the 'high stress' ones.

 

Based on his threads, Musemaj has not only not been a parent, but is also in college and has never worked full-time.

 

I really don't know why he bothers making threads after threads about women living off men and not working when he himself does not work either.

[stillafool]

 

But I feel like me and some of my friends have started to screen women the way they do us. Smart, educated, good job, not a lot of debt...Basically in the present day, being sexy isnt all that matters anymore. Men want stability and what not from women along with a good personality. I want a sexy girl whos my intellectual equal, and I usually find that in an educated career woman. Complicated, intellectual girls who can hold debates with me sooooo do it for me lol

 

 

There is nothing new about this. College educated men have always preferred college educated women. This has been true for decades and decades. Even educated men who want their wives to stay home and care for the kids want her to have a college degree. I'm surprised that men in your generation are just now figuring that out. If uneducated women turn you off so much don't talk to them.

Edited December 26, 2011 by stillafool

[Emilia]

There is nothing new about this. College educated men have always preferred college educated women. This has been true for decades and decades. Even educated men who want their wives to stay home and care for the kids want her to have a college degree. I'm surprised that men in your generation are just now figuring that out. If uneducated women turn you off so much don't talk to them.

 

I think he put an emphasis on achievement rather than just education. Earlier I mentioned middle class girls having a BA (British art undergraduate degree) in English that don't do anything with them afterwards, they get married in their 20s and stay at home with the kids. English, History and similar degrees with a large percentage of female students are sometimes referred to as a 'wife' degrees.

[stillafool]

 

I am attracted to women on my level, so to speak. I like a girl who is college educated, or at least have gone to some sort of school for her field, or is currently in school. When I am on online profiles, if a girl is past the age of 21 and not in college yet, I tend to get turned off. And they usually have the most baggage it seems.

 

I said that because of his opening statement above. I didn't read his entire thread. I think he is definitely putting emphasis on education, not just achievement.

 

 

I think he put an emphasis on achievement rather than just education. Earlier I mentioned middle class girls having a BA (British art undergraduate degree) in English that don't do anything with them afterwards, they get married in their 20s and stay at home with the kids. English, History and similar degrees with a large percentage of female students are sometimes referred to as a 'wife' degrees.

 

I know lawyers who have given up their careers to be SAHMs. These women have very high earning husbands.

 

My point is this is nothing new and if he doesn't find girls without a college degree desireable, who cares? Just stay away from them.

[phineas]

Musemaj, you have never been a stay at home parent, have you? I have. I've done both - a professional job in law enforcement and a stay at home mom (both at the same time too). My "BOSS" is extremely demanding of me 24/7, at least when I was at my job I could lock myself in a bathroom to take a piss rather than try and rock a crying baby, take a piss, and wipe myself at the same time. Babies that lay in cradles and sleep are for some people and Toys R Us advertisements, some of us have babies that constantly cry or are born with medical conditions (mine was blessed with colic, a broken collarbone at birth, and severe acid reflux disease with a milk allergy), if you think that isn't a demanding boss then you haven't been exposed to the nightmare that some babies can be. Try waking ever 30 minutes for 12 months straight - at 19 months, I am fortunate enough to get 3-4 hours of sleep at one time before my son's medical needs need attention.

 

Is my case exceptional? Maybe... probably. But I laugh at anyone that thinks my 'professional job' was harder than what I do now. And my 'professional job' was one of the 'high stress' ones.

 

You are the exception & I don't wish what you went through on anyone.

 

But, my wife & I split when my youngest was barely 6 months & I had him & my oldest who was 2 1/2 5 nights & mornings weekly & worked 40hrs a week.

I only had 2 days a week when I didn't see them.

 

It really wasn't that big a deal.

I really don't know anyone personally who had a baby with colic.

So again, your experience is not the norm.

 

What I do know, being a single dad are lots of single mom's whose children's fathers just arn't in the picture at all & they manage to raise their kids on their own plus work full time.

 

so unless you give birth to a litter or have a baby with health issues hearing someone tell me their a stay at home mom these days is a very "LOL...wat?" moment for me.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Musemaj11

Men prefer to be the working partner due to strong societal stigma on the idea of stay at home dad.

 

I would disagree that the only reason men prefer to be the working partner is because of some social stigma of being a stay at home dad. I think alot of men prefer to go out into the world and make their own mark with pride and hard work. Granted, we see a little less of people, both men and women, not taking enough pride in their work. But men, more often then women, judge themselves through a goal/task oriented challenge. Women tend to judge themselves more on their personal relationships. And today, with everything being so screwy, we see more lazy men and women. Men that don't take enough pride in themselves and their work and women that do the same scoffing at cooking or doing traditional chores.

 

Also its ridiculous to compare being a stay at home mom with having a professional job. Unless you have a demanding and oppressive husband, being a stay at home mom you work at your own pace. There is no deadline nor pressure from your boss. Besides, what kind of parent sees caring for her own child as 'work'?

 

There are many professional jobs that don't include a true pressure for deadlines or bosses.

 

If you think raising children and managing a home is easy work, then I can only conclude that you neither have children, or know very much about what it requires to raise one. While having and raising children is very rewarding, making the assumption that because a parent cares for and raises their own children that it isn't work, seems very naive about what goes into such matters. Raising children isn't easy. Back in the day, women were expected to raise children and care for the home. Now women are expected to raise chidlren, care for the home, and earn the bacon. While men have stepped up and been more part of the child raising responsibilities, it's been my experience that women still hold more of the responsibilities in this regard on top of being expected to work as well.

[musemaj11]

Based on his threads, Musemaj has not only not been a parent, but is also in college and has never worked full-time.

 

I really don't know why he bothers making threads after threads about women living off men and not working when he himself does not work either.

In America, we started working since we were still in high school. I personally began working when I was 17 (later than many other kids).

 

Right now I have been having a full time job for 5 months ever since I got my degree last June. But then again, I fail to see how part-time job should be seen as less than full-time job. I have to say that my current full-time job is a lot easier than when I had to juggle between school and work.

 

By the way, Im a man and having a job is like having a beating heart. I cant afford not having a job since I cant expect to find a boyfriend, move in with him and leech off of him .

 

While men have stepped up and been more part of the child raising responsibilities, it's been my experience that women still hold more of the responsibilities in this regard on top of being expected to work as well.

Men also statistically still take up more hazardous jobs and work longer hours.