Are more men beginning to care about a womans status?

[Sanman]

I agree, and a woman who is looking to sit on her ass for 20 years is simply not what the OP is interested in, but it sounds like he would completely exclude/eliminate a woman who would make the choice to be a stay at home mother when the time comes. A career woman may change her attitude when she has her kids - many of them do. I spend a lot of time on a parenting forum and very few of those women WANT to work, in fact it kills them to leave their kids, even if career is all they valued before. Once you become a mother, the money/"status" of career doesn't have the same value.

 

 

Absolutely, but I think there are many fathers out there who would like to take care of their children too. Not many families could swallow an 80k loss of income and still love a decent lifestyle. I'm assuming your husband makes a considerable income. My gf and I both have lucrative professional careers. However, both of us have flexible careers available to us. I have though about this and would not mind if both us cut down on hours and had to live a bit less luxuriously than we otherwise might. Might fear about relationships such as yours is, as a man and sole provider, being very emotionally divorced from my family and too stressed to support the other members of my family. I am assuming that your husband works more now to make up for some of the income loss?

[lululucy]

OP you make some very valid points, but, it comes across as a bit controlling to have already predetermine who will do what in your family. Some of the things you've mentioned (who will watch the children, who will do which chores, so on and so forth) are generally reserved, discussed and agreed upon between two people, as a couple.

 

When you come across someone you like, you can date and decide if you like each other enough to move things along to relationship territory, or maybe it will just naturally evolve on its own, and then you can both work out all the kinks together. Sound good?

 

Eeeeeeesh!

 

That's true but if you would be unhappy with someone who was going to stay at home with the children forever, why should you hide that from a potential date? If a guy I was seeing told me he wanted me to stay home to take care of the kids, he would be out of the picture in seconds flat. There are plenty of girls like me out there and I don't think the OP would be fair to a potential mate if he didn't bring it up.

[bean1]

Yes, my husband took 6 months pat leave to stay home with me for the first 6 months (we are not in the US). He makes a good amount ($90k), and we got rid of one of our cars and shop thrifty in order for me to stay home. I buy things on sale and buy used clothing. I walk, don't drive. I live cheaper than I did as a "starving student". We have literally half the income of before - we don't travel right now, I don't have the same materials I did before. But, I also don't have to leave my child with another woman for 8-10 hours a day (and considering toddlers sleep 12 hours a night, it means I still see him - many working parents often don't see their very young kids for more than 20-30 minutes a night before bedtime).

 

I guess I will have to agree to disagree with the OP kaylan. I don't think your preference is "wrong", after all, your preference is your preference - but I do find it strange that any person would willingly separate themselves for 40-50 hours per week from such a young child (1-4) to have a nicer house, car, etc. If they need to put a roof over their head that is one thing, but a nice*r house/car/vacation? No thanks. If that's a red flag, then I am one big waving red flag.

[lululucy]

Yes, my husband took 6 months pat leave to stay home with me for the first 6 months (we are not in the US). He makes a good amount ($90k), and we got rid of one of our cars and shop thrifty in order for me to stay home. I buy things on sale and buy used clothing. I walk, don't drive. I live cheaper than I did as a "starving student". We have literally half the income of before - we don't travel right now, I don't have the same materials I did before. But, I also don't have to leave my child with another woman for 8-10 hours a day (and considering toddlers sleep 12 hours a night, it means I still see him - many working parents often don't see their very young kids for more than 20-30 minutes a night before bedtime).

 

I guess I will have to agree to disagree with the OP kaylan. I don't think your preference is "wrong", after all, your preference is your preference - but I do find it strange that any person would willingly separate themselves for 40-50 hours per week from such a young child (1-4) to have a nicer house, car, etc. If they need to put a roof over their head that is one thing, but a nice*r house/car/vacation? No thanks. If that's a red flag, then I am one big waving red flag.

 

Why is the only motivation here money? My mom worked while I was growing up because she loved her job and she enjoyed the personal satisfaction that came from it. She didn't make a hell of a lot of money but she was much happier than she would've been had she stayed at home. This is the same reason a lot of people quit high paying jobs to do jobs that make them feel as if they are contributing -- not everyone is capable of getting total fulfillment from only raising a family. You're different, that's fine, but it doesn't necessarily come from a place of greed.

[kaylan]

OP you make some very valid points, but, it comes across as a bit controlling to have already predetermine who will do what in your family. Some of the things you've mentioned (who will watch the children, who will do which chores, so on and so forth) are generally reserved, discussed and agreed upon between two people, as a couple.

Controlling? Am I not allowed to control my own life the way I want to? And I am attracted to what I am attracted to. Cant help that.

 

Things are discussed as a couple, and if we had totally different styles, then it wouldnt work out. Like a couple with different religions who breakup because they dont agree on which religion to raise the child in.

When you come across someone you like, you can date and decide if you like each other enough to move things along to relationship territory, or maybe it will just naturally evolve on its own, and then you can both work out all the kinks together. Sound good?

 

Eeeeeeesh!

Eeesh?

 

Part of working out the kinks is figuring out what you both want out of the future. Usually I find out what kind of woman a girl wants to be in her family unit during the "getting to know you" phase. Family and work and all that easily come up in convo.

 

Im not saying im not attracted to motherly instincts. The last girl I was hooking up with gave off a huge old school motherly vibe about what she wanted in the future. She always mentioned how she wanted to cook for me, and how she loves the idea of being a mom, and how she wouldnt mind being a house wife back in Italy(shes of italian descent).

 

I thought it was very sweet and that caring attitude of her wanting to take care of her man really drew me to her. But at the same time I do want something more than that, and felt she had that. She was in school and after college wanted to pursue schooling and a career in the chef field. So I really loved that ambition too.

[Casablanca]

Any arts degree is a good base for most careers. Wolf has it right, companies look for the highest qualified individual. Having a four year degree proves that you're going to finish projects, have a certain degree of knowledge of the english language, are able to write -- please try using your drop-out status to get a job outside the comp-tech industry and see how that goes. I'm glad you found something you love to do that makes you money. Why do you care if other people want degrees to get jobs that make THEM money.

It also shows they have discipline, can manage the tough schedule of being a full time student and having a job (not all cases, but most of my friends had a job and went to school full time), and in pretty much all high level math classes it pushes your problem solving and critical thinking.

[snug.bunny]

That's true but if you would be unhappy with someone who was going to stay at home with the children forever, why should you hide that from a potential date? If a guy I was seeing told me he wanted me to stay home to take care of the kids, he would be out of the picture in seconds flat. There are plenty of girls like me out there and I don't think the OP would be fair to a potential mate if he didn't bring it up.

 

Of course, but I wasn't necessarily referring to just that one specific "want". I may be in the minority but I generally never asked a potential date about marriage/children, prior to the first date. But, maybe doing so is a better route for people to go. So, maybe telling potential dates that he does not want a stay at home wife, is a good idea. In doing so, he should also let her know what type of wife he wants, that his family will be watching their future children, and that he "may" be okay with her taking some time off of work after she delivers the baby, and that all chores will be divided and there will be no arguments about it in his house!

 

It kind of reminds me of an episode on Friends when Rachel and Ross had been dating for a few months, and he already decided where they were going to live, how many kids they were having, and the names of what their children would be.

[Casablanca]

Of course, but I wasn't necessarily referring to just that one specific "want". I may be in the minority but I generally never asked a potential date about marriage/children, prior to the first date. But, maybe doing so is a better route for people

I'm the same way...I think a good rule of thumb is if you dont ever really want to be married or dont have kids, you probably made that known sometime early.

[snug.bunny]

I'm the same way...I think a good rule of thumb is if you dont ever really want to be married or dont have kids, you probably made that known sometime early.

 

Well, sometimes people don't want to get married and/or have kids, and then they meet someone and that all changes. Or, maybe a person believes asking that question on/before a first date is bit preemptive. It's the whole "life is a journey not a destination" debate. For some it is the journey, for others it is the destination, and for some it is a combination of both.

 

I've witnessed countless people who have gone to college and after they graduated, decided it's not what they wanted to do after all, are if $200K + debt, and not working and/or working doing something else. I've also witnessed people who have gone to college and have achieved great fortune. And, I've also witnessed people who never went to college, and achieved great or a "comfortable enough" fortune. I've also seen people who made TONS of money, lose their job due to the economy, or whichever, and ended up in the hospital suicidal.

[Sanman]

Yes, my husband took 6 months pat leave to stay home with me for the first 6 months (we are not in the US). He makes a good amount ($90k), and we got rid of one of our cars and shop thrifty in order for me to stay home. I buy things on sale and buy used clothing. I walk, don't drive. I live cheaper than I did as a "starving student". We have literally half the income of before - we don't travel right now, I don't have the same materials I did before. But, I also don't have to leave my child with another woman for 8-10 hours a day (and considering toddlers sleep 12 hours a night, it means I still see him - many working parents often don't see their very young kids for more than 20-30 minutes a night before bedtime).

 

I guess I will have to agree to disagree with the OP kaylan. I don't think your preference is "wrong", after all, your preference is your preference - but I do find it strange that any person would willingly separate themselves for 40-50 hours per week from such a young child (1-4) to have a nicer house, car, etc. If they need to put a roof over their head that is one thing, but a nice*r house/car/vacation? No thanks. If that's a red flag, then I am one big waving red flag.

 

I think some of this is related to where you live as well. The money is not simply for nicer stuff. Often, one spouse works for more money while the other gets health benefits through work for the family. In the U.S., houses in nicer neighborhoods equate to better school districts and less violence. College is significantly more expensive in the U.S. than in Europe and require years of savings. Getting rid of a car isn't always possible (but downgrading is). It is definitely a tough balance to strike between parenting and bringing enough money to raise a family. It really isn't cheap to do it properly.

[kaylan]

Well, sometimes people don't want to get married and/or have kids, and then they meet someone and that all changes. Or, maybe a person believes asking that question on/before a first date is bit preemptive. It's the whole "life is a journey not a destination" debate. For some it is the journey, for others it is the destination, and for some it is a combination of both.

 

I've witnessed countless people who have gone to college and after they graduated, decided it's not what they wanted to do after all, are if $200K + debt, and not working and/or working doing something else. I've also witnessed people who have gone to college and have achieved great fortune. And, I've also witnessed people who never went to college, and achieved great or a "comfortable enough" fortune. I've also seen people who made TONS of money, lose their job due to the economy, or whichever, and ended up in the hospital suicidal.

These are exceptions and not the rule.

 

Studies show that those with degrees make more money during their lifetime. This carries over to overall stability. You need more to live and do the things you want to do. The thing is stability means a more happy life. Living paycheck to paycheck and struggling is not fun. And you have more people without degrees doing this, than those with degrees.

 

Also, people need to be practical sometimes. You can either go to state school like I did and only have 20k in debt after for years of schooling...or you can do like my best friend did...private school for 6 years... a masters degree at 24...and now aged 25 he makes between 85 and 100k depending on overtime.

 

Seems like school was a good idea.

 

Education is important. But people need to figure out what they want in life first, so later they dont have to regret decisions.

[InJest]

Inferiority complex? That stems from the belief that one is inferior.

 

I suffer from a superiority complex. I'm a cocky, pompous, prick with an IQ above 140. I can get a job anywhere. I have all the superficial **** one could want(within reason), and much younger than most people others who do it completely on their own. I turn problems into successes. I've done it by myself, and without the necessary paperwork, which actually requires superior ability.

 

 

 

My problem is I'm still not happy or satisfied.

 

 

Of course it's better and makes life easier to have a degree. Just don't be such a machine. It sounds like you'd deny a successful woman a chance for lack of a degree. Don't treat dating like a job interview, as much as what you read will tell you to, just be open. You sound so cold and [forgive me] businesslike. The way you state it, it comes off as, College = Brains, No College = No Brains.

 

Just curious, since you didn't answer my question about your degree directly helping with your job..do you have a job in your field? Have you had anything more than an internship? Also, what city are you from if you don't mind my asking? Also, don't you know that lawyers(people with law degrees) are going to be handling regulations, taxes, and the like behind deals. You'd better believe that every international business firm has a department of lawyers, that goes over every deal.

 

 

Just don't think with your head so much.

 

 

 

 

P.S. Your best friend sounds like me, only I don't have a degree and I never work overtime(that's that cocky, prick thing going on again).

Edited December 22, 2011 by InJest

[kaylan]

Inferiority complex? That stems from the belief that one is inferior.

 

I suffer from a superiority complex. I'm a cocky, pompous, prick with an IQ above 140. I can get a job anywhere. I have all the superficial **** one could want(within reason), and much younger than most people others who do it completely on their own. I turn problems into successes. I've done it by myself, and without the necessary paperwork, which actually requires superior ability.

The fact that you need to spout off about yourself shows insecurity with the fact that you dont have a degree. You have something to prove, hence a complex.

 

 

My problem is I'm still not happy or satisfied.

Then figure that out

Of course it's better and makes life easier to have a degree. Just don't be such a machine. It sounds like you'd deny a successful woman a chance for lack of a degree. Don't treat dating like a job interview, as much as what you read will tell you to, just be open. You sound so cold and [forgive me] businesslike. The way you state it, it comes off as, College = Brains, No College = No Brains.

If she was successful than Id be fine with her.

 

Read my OP with comprehension. I said more often than not, women who dont have anything past a high school education tend to lack ambition and have more baggage than women with a college education. Sure there are exceptions, but theres a reason statistics show greater frequency in happiness and stability in those with college educations.

 

Just curious, since you didn't answer my question about your degree directly helping with your job..do you have a job in your field? Have you had anything more than an internship? Also, what city are you from if you don't mind my asking? Also, don't you know that lawyers(people with law degrees) are going to be handling regulations, taxes, and the like behind deals. You'd better believe that every international business firm has a department of lawyers, that goes over every deal.

My dad is a lawyer, so obviously I know this.

 

Also, I am from NY. Currently I am still looking for work given what the economy is looking like but have been thinking about moving abroad for work since thats what a couple companies Ive talked to would like me to do. I just dont want to move my entire life at the ripe age of 25.

 

Just don't think with your head so much.

 

P.S. Your best friend sounds like me, only I don't have a degree and I never work overtime(that's that cocky, prick thing going on again).

Actually, thinking with my head is the best thing I could ever do and why I am where I am today. I am quite happy with the choices Ive made over the last 5 years.

 

And yeah, my best friend sounds like you huh? however, hes very humble and proud of the hard work he put into his education and the security it provides. In a given field, if two people with the same relative experience want a job, the one with the degree will get it. I would say that type of security means a lot.

 

Again, your insecurity is showing.

[InJest]

The fact that you need to spout off about yourself shows insecurity with the fact that you dont have a degree. You have something to prove, hence a complex.

 

While I do like spouting off about myself, in this case, I'm doing it to qualify what I'm saying about myself. Without giving facts as to how, me saying, "I'm successful, without a degree." doesn't really mean much.

 

 

Also, I am from NY. Currently I am still looking for work given what the economy is looking like but have been thinking about moving abroad for work since thats what a couple companies Ive talked to would like me to do. I just dont want to move my entire life at the ripe age of 25.

 

Right, so you're jobless, living with your parents thinking you're better than others. Don't blame the economy, it takes me two weeks to get job. Excuses are like *******s.

 

If your concentration is international business, why are you so opposed to moving abroad to get some experience in the field? It sounds like you're doing yourself a great disservice, by not taking the opportunity that's offered. Experience is everything. If you've got a bachelor's, but you've worked in Zurich, Kuala Lumpur, Beijing, Tokyo, Dubai, London, or any other world financial center, you will beat out any master's candidate without experience like that. That comes from my real work experience. Not an internship or a special I saw on CNN. I'm from NY originally, so I know that most New Yorkers are terrified of ever crossing the state line, but if you pop your mom's tit out of your mouth, and just go, even for a year, your career will benefit greatly.

 

Actually, thinking with my head is the best thing I could ever do and why I am where I am today.

 

Which is where exactly? Where are you currently typing from?

 

And yeah, my best friend sounds like you huh? however, hes very humble and proud of the hard work he put into his education and the security it provides. In a given field, if two people with the same relative experience want a job, the one with the degree will get it. I would say that type of security means a lot.

 

Again, your insecurity is showing.

 

Why would I need to be humble, when your friend had put 6 years of hard work into what he's achieved, while I've achieved the same effortlessly? If humility is so important to you, you should work on it yourself(not that it's going to help you in the business world).

 

The assumption you make sounds good, but the manager that hired me for my last job, let me see the resumes of those I was going against(months after I started), and there were two candidates with Masters in CIS and one with a bachelor's.

 

I will admit insecurity, but it doesn't stem from not having a degree. It stems from the thought that I may not ever be successful by my standards, though I'm already wildly successful by society's(and yours, judging by the esteem with which you hold your friend) standards.

 

For what it's worth, I think you're a smart guy, though not very perceptive(it's an epidemic in NY, so you fit right in). What I meant by, don't think with your head so much, was don't try to put everything into a box. I do think you will be successful, and I also think you'll have very little trouble finding a woman that suits you. My only question with regard to that is, why are you trying to settle down at 25, while living in NY?!

Edited December 22, 2011 by InJest

[kaylan]

While I do like spouting off about myself, in this case, I'm doing it to qualify what I'm saying about myself. Without giving facts as to how, me saying, "I'm successful, without a degree." doesn't really mean much.

But like I said, you are qualifying an exception. Not a rule. Its much more wise for people to go to school. They have a greater chance at success in life. A degree is loads more pros with few cons. If more people went to school, more people would live more comfortably.

 

 

Right, so you're jobless, living with your parents thinking you're better than others. Don't blame the economy, it takes me two weeks to get job. Excuses are like *******s.

Lmao....dont blame the economy?

Thats a riot, considering how many Americans are out of work. Dude if anything, in NYC metro area, theres quite a few tech jobs to be had. So it taking you two weeks is not surprising.

 

I could have taken up Accounting if I wanted a sure job in the business field right out of school, but thats not my calling.

 

The economy is not an excuse, its a valid reason. How about you actually do some research on whats been happening to the US and the EU economies.

If your concentration is international business, why are you so opposed to moving abroad to get some experience in the field? It sounds like you're doing yourself a great disservice, by not taking the opportunity that's offered. Experience is everything. If you've got a bachelor's, but you've worked in Zurich, Kuala Lumpur, Beijing, Tokyo, Dubai, London, or any other world financial center, you will beat out any master's candidate without experience like that. That comes from my real work experience. Not an internship or a special I saw on CNN. I'm from NY originally, so I know that most New Yorkers are terrified of ever crossing the state line, but if you pop your mom's tit out of your mouth, and just go, even for a year, your career will benefit greatly.

Im opposed to being dumb enough to jump abroad before getting some practical experience at home. Theres lots to consider for anyone who decides to move and work in another country. LOTS. Itd make more sense for me to work for a company here with international ties, get some work experience, and then get shipped out by them to get abroad experience as well.

 

Trust me Id love to travel, but its not that time yet being someone fresh out of school. I need to get my feet under me and do well at home before I can think about being a success else where. Makes sense?

 

 

Which is where exactly? Where are you currently typing from?

Typing from a better place than I was 5 years ago.

 

Why would I need to be humble, when your friend had put 6 years of hard work into what he's achieved, while I've achieved the same effortlessly? If humility is so important to you, you should work on it yourself(not that it's going to help you in the business world).

Like I said, if someone ever had to compete with you, with comparable experience, youd lose out. Simple. Ive seen it happen to several people in this economy.

 

More companies think its a risk to take on folks without the educational credentials nowadays.

The assumption you make sounds good, but the manager that hired me for my last job, let me see the resumes of those I was going against(months after I started), and there were two candidates with Masters in CIS and one with a bachelor's.

Im sure. But did they have comparable experience? Thats what I have been saying.

 

If they were barely wet behind the ears and went through school barely working, than it makes sense.

I will admit insecurity, but it doesn't stem from not having a degree. It stems from the thought that I may not ever be successful by my standards, though I'm already wildly successful by society's(and yours, judging by the esteem with which you hold your friend) standards.

Thats your own personal issue to deal with I guess. Meh

For what it's worth, I think you're a smart guy, though not very perceptive(it's an epidemic in NY, so you fit right in). What I meant by, don't think with your head so much, was don't try to put everything into a box. I do think you will be successful, and I also think you'll have very little trouble finding a woman that suits you. My only question with regard to that is, why are you trying to settle down at 25, while living in NY?!

Its not about putting things into a box. Id say I am quite perceptive...especially considering I take security very seriously. Thats why I am quite drawn to a girl with an education, or some form of secure professional endeavor. It makes sense for the future, and makes her a hell of a lot more fun for me to date. It would work for me dating wise and, in the future, family wise. More stability like I keep saying.

 

Im not trying to settle down at 25 by any means. Maybe when I am closer to 30 I will. I just have an idea of who Id like to date seriously when the time comes for a girlfriend. Im still going to date around and have fun for the next year or so...thats the plan. However, I already know what it is Im looking for in a long term gf, so if she comes along early, that would be kinda nice.

[snug.bunny]

These are exceptions and not the rule.

 

Studies show that those with degrees make more money during their lifetime. This carries over to overall stability. You need more to live and do the things you want to do. The thing is stability means a more happy life. Living paycheck to paycheck and struggling is not fun. And you have more people without degrees doing this, than those with degrees.

 

Also, people need to be practical sometimes. You can either go to state school like I did and only have 20k in debt after for years of schooling...or you can do like my best friend did...private school for 6 years... a masters degree at 24...and now aged 25 he makes between 85 and 100k depending on overtime.

 

Seems like school was a good idea.

 

Education is important. But people need to figure out what they want in life first, so later they dont have to regret decisions.

 

But but, we’ve heard you go on about “stability” and security and how it can mainly only be achieved via a college degree, but you aren’t employed?

 

Even still, maybe you’re on to something, considering if both your parents have degrees and worked/work full time and can both support you at the age of 25 until you find work, move out, and support yourself on your own. These are just my own assumptions, as I have no idea where you live and/or whether or not you have your own source of income.

 

Nonetheless, I absolutely agree that college and having a degree can be highly beneficial, not just in terms of salary but, for a host of other reasons. And, I respect a lot of other points you've made throughout this thread as well.

 

But, there is no "rule" that states having a degree ensures "happiness" and that those without a degree are all a bunch of unhappy, baggage carrying, unstable, unambitious people. Given your area of studies, I can see how promoting the idea that a college degree ensures this and that, it's "sales/economics", right? (I had to look it up, as I didn't actually know).

 

So, given that you currently don't have a job (which I'm not knocking, it's tough out there), but in screening potential dates, is this something you will disclose?

[kaylan]

But but, we’ve heard you go on about “stability” and security and how it can mainly only be achieved via a college degree, but you aren’t employed?

 

Even still, maybe you’re on to something, considering if both your parents have degrees and worked/work full time and can both support you at the age of 25 until you find work, move out, and support yourself on your own. These are just my own assumptions, as I have no idea where you live and/or whether or not you have your own source of income.

 

Nonetheless, I absolutely agree that college and having a degree can be highly beneficial, not just in terms of salary but, for a host of other reasons. And, I respect a lot of other points you've made throughout this thread as well.

 

But, there is no "rule" that states having a degree ensures "happiness" and that those without a degree are all a bunch of unhappy, baggage carrying, unstable, unambitious people. Given your area of studies, I can see how promoting the idea that a college degree ensures this and that, it's "sales/economics", right? (I had to look it up, as I didn't actually know).

 

So, given that you currently don't have a job (which I'm not knocking, it's tough out there), but in screening potential dates, is this something you will disclose?

My mom has her M.S. and is a biology teacher. My dad has his J.D. and is a defense attorney. So I was sort of raised to do well in school. However, though they helped me during college by giving me spending cash here or there, and feeding me, all my school loans are in my name, and I paid my own rent and gas money when I lived near campus.

 

Also, after I graduated until October, I was living on my own savings until I had to move back in due to not finding decent work.

 

Sure there is no "rule" about what having a degree will give someone. But the stats dont lie. You have a way greater chance at having a comfortable life and better wage with a college degree or vocational degree of some sort.

 

And I have no problem letting girls know I am not working as of yet. I may have to get a part time gig like I did during college just so I have my own spending cash. Youd wouldnt be surprised how many girls out there are in the same boat. And I see it said on peoples online dating profiles too as well as them being upfront in real life.

 

Im not ashamed of it, because it is what it is, and a lot of people are unemployed or underemployed at the moment. However, to be honest, Ive been trying to refrain from dating until I start working because dating can be stressful and an expense anyways. But I love you ladies too much.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

While getting a degree (or a few) is good as far as being able to make more money with a degree then without, getting a degree isn't really all that hard or that big of a bench mark of intelligence. I have dated men that didn't finish college and other men that had ivy educations and the men with the Ivy educations were't necessarily smarter or "better". Intelligence does matter in a relationship but a degree does not.

 

My own dad barely finished highschool and built his own successful business from the ground up. I'm more interested in a man being motivated to work at whatever he enjoys and take pride in his work, whatever it may be, then one that thinks a degree makes him better then other men.

[phineas]

While getting a degree (or a few) is good as far as being able to make more money with a degree then without, getting a degree isn't really all that hard or that big of a bench mark of intelligence. I have dated men that didn't finish college and other men that had ivy educations and the men with the Ivy educations were't necessarily smarter or "better". Intelligence does matter in a relationship but a degree does not.

 

My own dad barely finished highschool and built his own successful business from the ground up. I'm more interested in a man being motivated to work at whatever he enjoys and take pride in his work, whatever it may be, then one that thinks a degree makes him better then other men.

 

I know many people without college degree's doing well for themselves.

I agree that there are people educated beyond their intelligence out there.

 

I also am a big DIY'er & most people just stare at me blankly when If I try to discuss the amount of heat-sink required for a high-powered LED (I bet your eyes just glossed over) LOL!

 

So I don't need high-brow conversations with a woman to enjoy her company.

 

My concern is their income & if they live withing their means.

I'm supporting two kids & their mother.

I can pay my own way, but I can't support a woman.

 

I've met so many women that are flat broke all the time & use dating as a means to get free food & drinks.

It's mind blowing to find women like this at my age.

 

I don't care about their status really.

 

I just want to date an adult that won't deplete my weekly funds past dating.

[InJest]

While getting a degree (or a few) is good as far as being able to make more money with a degree then without, getting a degree isn't really all that hard or that big of a bench mark of intelligence.

 

Point I've been trying to make from the start.

[zengirl]

As 2-income families are the norm and many people in their 20s now (the majority I'd say) grew up in 2-income families, I'm not surprised men in that age-range are more likely consider that a priority than men of the past, and I imagine that trend is real and will continue. It's fairly sensible since most men who want to get married/think they might someday want to get married are considering what they want in a partner to live with day in and day out. I don't think it's some shocking new trend either. That doesn't mean no one wants to be a SAHM (or SAHD!) anymore, but it's hard to pull off and most people wait longer to have kids anyway. The idea of a SAHW who ISN'T a mom is kind of an odd one these days, whereas it was a status symbol (in the 50s, it was the norm and you were likely quite poor if you couldn't manage it, and even in later decades, it was a status symbol, though a waning one of greater and greater wealth as it became more rare) and perhaps still is, though not so much as the 'power couple' meme of late.

 

At the same time, what you aren't finding (IMO) much of are more men who are willing to compromise their careers for their wives (some are, sure, but it's still a minority), so as women have compromised less and less over the years and men haven't bridged that gap, what you're finding are more and more successful singles who will likely stay single. A woman is still MUCH more likely than a man to compromise her career goals for her spouse -- though hopefully that will change too and become less about gender statistics and more about individuals.

 

I think "status" is the wrong word here. You can get "status" from many things, and different crowds have different ideas of what brings you "status." Some people might even consider one to have a higher "status" (within their circle) if they are less educated, a la "street cred." That's not my circle. I literally cannot think of more than a handful of people I even casually socialize with who don't have college degrees (even though no one in my family besides me, one cousin, and my step-father has one); it's not because I meet those people and think, "Ew, you don't have a degree." It's because those people are outside of the sphere I generally socialize in and I'm unlikely to meet them at all, unless they're the parents of kids in my program or something.

 

As far as college degrees being worthwhile --- I work in education and am a PhD candidate; I believe furthering your education is extremely important if you decide to work with your mind and want to rise beyond a certain level. That said: the world needs plumbers, carpenters, and fast food workers too, none of which need degrees, and many of which vary in relative pay, working conditions, and so forth. Nothing wrong with whatever you do, so long as it makes you happy and you do it well. Because of my romantic preferences in a partner, I have tended to only date men who work with their minds more than their hands/bodies, so a college degree is a must to me. You won't find many programmers (my new hubby!), doctors, lawyers, teachers, engineers, etc, without them these days, though my grandfather was quite the engineer (self-taught) and never went to college; with the stats he had, he'd never be hired today, even by the firm he retired from as a Vice President. These are the times. A college degree isn't a status symbol anymore; it's an entry-level minimum for anything white collar. Not that white collar jobs are always the best. Plenty of blue collar jobs have better security these days.

[bean1]

Agreed with zengirl- whether or not a degree implies status is entirely dependent on the social circle.

 

My career was in law enforcement- nobody cared if you had a degree or not. You had high school drop outs with 30 years experience supervising newbies out of the academy with a BA in criminal justice. A degree does not matter in a field where street smarts have more value.

 

So what is "status" to the OP is not "status" to me. That's fine.

 

What might be hard for the OP is finding a girl who is interested in such status but is not turned off by his unemployment. THAT will be tricky.

[kaylan]

Zengirl, I def love your 'power couple' term. Thats def what I am going for lol

 

Agreed with zengirl- whether or not a degree implies status is entirely dependent on the social circle.

 

My career was in law enforcement- nobody cared if you had a degree or not. You had high school drop outs with 30 years experience supervising newbies out of the academy with a BA in criminal justice. A degree does not matter in a field where street smarts have more value.

 

So what is "status" to the OP is not "status" to me. That's fine.

 

What might be hard for the OP is finding a girl who is interested in such status but is not turned off by his unemployment. THAT will be tricky.

Read my above response again as I have had NO problems dating women despite not working. Itd be one thing if I was 30. But im a 25 year old who just graduated in a crap economy. Hasnt hurt me one bit dating wise, especially when you consider the number of women in the same boat as I am.

 

And I have no problem letting girls know I am not working as of yet. I may have to get a part time gig like I did during college just so I have my own spending cash. Youd wouldnt be surprised how many girls out there are in the same boat. And I see it said on peoples online dating profiles too as well as them being upfront in real life.

 

Im not ashamed of it, because it is what it is, and a lot of people are unemployed or underemployed at the moment. However, to be honest, Ive been trying to refrain from dating until I start working because dating can be stressful and an expense anyways. But I love you ladies too much.

Edited December 22, 2011 by kaylan

[Disenchantedly Yours]

 

My concern is their income & if they live withing their means.

I'm supporting two kids & their mother.

I can pay my own way, but I can't support a woman.

 

I've met so many women that are flat broke all the time & use dating as a means to get free food & drinks.

It's mind blowing to find women like this at my age.

 

I don't care about their status really.

 

I just want to date an adult that won't deplete my weekly funds past dating.

 

Using dating as a means for free food and drinks is a seperate issue. And one I'm not convinced happens nearly as much as some men think.

 

The only way another adult could deplete your weekly funds past dating is by the choices *you* make and what you pay for.

 

Call me old fashioned but the older I get, the less a career matters to me and the more I'd just like to make a home with a good man.

 

The thing is though, that men today want you to be Betty Crocker, Prostitute in the bedroom, High class lady in the public, AND have a good job so that *he* doesn't have to worry about anyone but himself. Not exactly realistic expectations and in their own way, a bit selfish.

 

Read my above response again as I have had NO problems dating women despite not working. Itd be one thing if I was 30. But im a 25 year old who just graduated in a crap economy. Hasnt hurt me one bit dating wise, especially when you consider the number of women in the same boat as I am.

 

You sincerely think there is a huge difference between 25 and 30? Wait until your 30 and you won't think that way anymore. It's not nearly as far ahead as you may think. 25 is well into adulthood. However, I will agree that alot of 25 year olds are in the same boat.

[kaylan]

 

 

You sincerely think there is a huge difference between 25 and 30? Wait until your 30 and you won't think that way anymore. It's not nearly as far ahead as you may think. 25 is well into adulthood. However, I will agree that alot of 25 year olds are in the same boat.

Lmao...youre kidding right? Thats like asking if theres huge difference between a 20/21 yr old and a 25 yr old.

 

So much growing and maturing is down in your 20s through each phase(early, mid, late). Age ranges dont start to equalize in maturity and wants until the 30s usually...Once you hit thirty people are in completely different mindsets and stages of life usually. 30 IS very different from 25. Its funny how you think 5 years isnt a lot, especially in the growing years of the 20s. If there wasnt a huge difference, plenty of older women will be wanting to talk to me once I start my career...but we know this isnt the case. A 30 year old has a different maturity and is in a different place in life than someone my age.

 

If I was 30 and in my position I wouldnt expect to have much luck dating. However, when I read many stories online, a lot of single people who are older than me, have had to bunk with friends or parents because they lost their jobs.

 

But considering the fact that I am 25 and many people between the ages of 21 and 28 are finishing a bachelors or masters program, I am not in small company. And in this economy as well, like you and I have said, theres plenty of people who are in my position.

Edited December 22, 2011 by kaylan