Are more men beginning to care about a womans status?

[Emilia]

 

Its because usually in my experience these women usually dont have the ambition that girls who went to school have. They expect a dude to come along and take care of them...or they made some not so smart life decisions that made it hard to go back to school. From speaking to women in the real world or reading profiles, it would seem that the educated girls def have a better head on their shoulders.

 

 

But I feel like me and some of my friends have started to screen women the way they do us. Smart, educated, good job, not a lot of debt...Basically in the present day, being sexy isnt all that matters anymore. Men want stability and what not from women along with a good personality. I want a sexy girl whos my intellectual equal, and I usually find that in an educated career woman. Complicated, intellectual girls who can hold debates with me sooooo do it for me lol

 

When I talk to my younger male friends they echo this. Some are around your age and their view of relationships is very much of a partnership with shared financial responsibilities. In fact some of them complain that all this female empowerment hasn't trickled down to every woman in society and that a lot of girls just expect to waste some time at uni (studying English or History), meet some guy affluent enough to take care of them and stay at home with the kids.

 

I'm 39 but have almost exclusively dated men in their 20s for the last 10 years because they enjoy my independence and they have very relaxed views of gender roles. Men my age view my lifestyle with more suspicion and they don't always approve that I have income from several sources, pursue expensive hobbies such as sailing and that I can do my own D.I.Y.

 

The world is changing and some keep up better than others.

[bean1]

Just to be clear, before I became a stay at home mom, I made about $80k per year (decent, no?) with my career. I gave it up to be a stay at home mom.

 

Here's the other problem that many young men don't consider - the idea that a woman can balance a husband, career, babies, all at once is a bit of a stretch. I have done it myself, and once of them had to give in order for me to give full attention to the others. So, it was the career that went.

 

I think it's very nice that many men want an "X" kind of woman but do keep in mind the difference between the "ideal" powerhouse couple with kids and a nice big house, and the reality of a working couple that is burned out, has little time for each other, and has to pay someone else (or have someone else) raise their own kids. If your mother can do this then that's IMO far better than a nanny or whatever, but there's nothing wrong with giving up money for your wife to stay home either.

 

I have so far lost about $160k in the past 2 years to stay home and raise my son and have no regrets. When I am an old lady dying in my bed, I could care less about having a nice house in my early 20's but will be glad to have been there 24/7 for my boy. If I had worked and raised my boy (my career is in law enforcement which requires 12-14 hour shifts), I would have never actually raised my boy in his early years. My house would be a disaster. Believe it or not, raising a baby has been harder than full-time work, something most people don't learn until they have babies themselves.

 

But of course, I have never hid this from any man and made it very clear to my husband (who fully agrees).

 

I guess, be careful what you wish for. Read the divorce/separation forums too and keep in mind how many couples grow apart because they are always putting career/money ahead of alone couple time and bonding as a family over the years. There is definitely more to think about than just an 'independent woman' with a career of her own - there is a disruption of family dynamic and putting a family at risk when it goes too far or when work comes first.

 

For young single men your age, it's all about work, work, work, finances, employment, it's the focus of your life really, because you don't have the other things to focus on (the wife, the kids). When you do have the kids and wife, you may re-evaluate this. Then again, I am actually not from the United States - women going back to work with a 6 week old baby in the US, left in someone else's care, is beyond insane, IMO, and perhaps this contributes to the mindset that many of the young men have. IMO, it is somewhat unnatural, is it not? To be separated from a baby for so long? Keep in mind the biology of human babies means exclusive breastfeeding until 2 or beyond (according to World Health Organization), so really, you are going against nature here too.

 

I plan on going back to work full time when my kids are school-age, but before that, no way, the cons outweigh the pros for me. I had nasty postnatal depression trying to "do it all" when my son was 12 weeks old.

Edited December 21, 2011 by bean1

[Emilia]

 

For young single men your age, it's all about work, work, work, finances, employment, it's the focus of your life really, because you don't have the other things to focus on (the wife, the kids). When you do have the kids and wife, you may re-evaluate this. Then again, I am actually not from the United States - women going back to work with a 6 week old baby in the US, left in someone else's care, is beyond insane, IMO, and perhaps this contributes to the mindset that many of the young men have. IMO, it is somewhat unnatural, is it not? To be separated from a baby for so long? Keep in mind the biology of human babies means exclusive breastfeeding until 2 or beyond (according to World Health Organization), so really, you are going against nature here too.

 

I plan on going back to work full time when my kids are school-age, but before that, no way, the cons outweigh the pros for me. I had nasty postnatal depression trying to "do it all" when my son was 12 weeks old.

 

I think going back to work must be hard after having kids for various reasons (though it will largely depend on your skills) but even if you and your husband set up a family home together and have solid financial basics before you have kids is very helpful long term.

[bean1]

Absolutely, I will still have to explain my absence and probably do a bit of upgrading but I'll be okay. It's really a catch 22 situation in some ways, damned if you do and damned if you don't.

 

In an ideal world all marriages would survive and those women who choose to stay home would not have any risks but the reality is that she needs to have something to fall back on (the idea of hoping for alimony is just sad to me).

It's not just men who need to worry about their retirement etc. women can be left high & dry too.

 

I guess it's just a sad state of affairs for both sexes

[Casablanca]

I've always wanted a woman with goals and an education

 

If you're 23 and havent stepped foot on a college campus, or did, but dropped out and are working as a waitress, being a mundane retail worker, etc, you're not getting a date from me.

 

I teach, I have a masters degree, I value education, my other half better too.

[phineas]

I think men, particularly young men, are smart to care about a woman's 'status'. At my age, there are too many other more important things in life to care about, like health, retirement and getting the most traction out of my remaining time on earth. A woman's 'status' means little to me. Her 'humanity' means a lot. Differing preferences for differing ages and demographics.

 

As far as I'm concerned, women who choose SAHM as their career are PhD's in my book. Experts in their field. Severely under-compensated. Swimming upstream in an increasingly career and money-driven society. Nurturers of our future. A 'status' I respect and admire.

 

You are a little older than me but i've spent the last 3 yrs undoing the damage I did to my body the 10yrs previous & I refuse to date someone who doesn't follow a similar healthy lifestyle.

 

Having a difficult time meeting women my own age like this.

 

also, since I don't plan on ever getting married, having more kids or moving someone into my house with my kids until i've dated them a good long time their job really doesn't matter to me as long as they can carry their own weight financially & aren't looking at me to support them or give them a better life other than my nice home I let them live in.

 

I have my own kids to support & don't need a 3rd dependent.

[Nexus One]

My goodness, what a prejudiced replies from men in this thread.

 

Yes, when a woman is on your level in terms of intelligence that is attractive, but the thing that is important about that intelligence is that you're able to have good and interesting conversations with her, conversations that bond you two together.

 

And THAT, i.e. being able to have conversations on a deeper level beyond the mere superficial, that's not limited to women with a college/university degree.

[Woggle]

Why is it okay for women to like dominant alpha and want to feel protected but if men prefer a soft, feminine and nurturing type we are neanderthals who are afraid of strong women? Women always say they like to feel protected and like a man to take charge. If I have to live up to my role why shouldn't she?

 

There is nothing unattractive about an educated and successful woman but women who take on what they think are the worst make stereotypical traits because they think it empowers them are a major turn off. They don't know a thing about how men really are so how can they claim they live like one?

[Casablanca]

My goodness, what a prejudiced replies from men in this thread.

 

Yes, when a woman is on your level in terms of intelligence that is attractive, but the thing that is important about that intelligence is that you're able to have good and interesting conversations with her, conversations that bond you two together.

 

And THAT, i.e. being able to have conversations on a deeper level beyond the mere superficial, that's not limited to women with a college/university degree.

I want a girl with goals and ambition because I have those same things. I have a master's degree, I value education, someone I see doesnt need to plan to earn a master's degree, but some sort of college degree, or graduating from a vocational school is a must.

 

A girl with no goals or ambitions just doesn't turn me on. If you're okay being some nursing/medical assistant and not actually going back to college to get your nursing degree, that is fine, but I'm not going to be interested.

 

My parents put a big emphasis on education, it is very important to me and it is very important to me that my partner shares that.

 

I didnt read all the posts, but I dont think anyone would agree that a college degree means you're smart and you can have a great conversation, and that lacking a college degree would make the previous two traits impossible.

[bean1]

A girl with no goals or ambitions just doesn't turn me on. If you're okay being some nursing/medical assistant and not actually going back to college to get your nursing degree, that is fine, but I'm not going to be interested.

 

My parents put a big emphasis on education, it is very important to me and it is very important to me that my partner shares that.

 

I'm sorry, that sounds horribly elitist. I hope you didn't mean to really sound that way, did you? There is a difference between putting a big emphasis on education and having an elitist attitude. Being a nursing/medical assistant is a perfectly respectable career and the educational path to get there is also respectable.

 

No, there was no thesis involved, but IMO university education is completely overrated and sometimes people come away with a lack of respect for other professionals.

 

I spent eight years in university, had a 4.0, and have a degree, teaching certificate, and had a high paying career before I decided to become a stay at home mother. My goals and ambitions are no better than a medical/nursing assistant and neither are yours.

[Els]

Yes, prejudice appears to run rampant in this thread.. in all directions. How terribly sad.

 

It's perfectly fine to have preferences, but it doesn't speak well at all for one's purported 'intelligence' to derogate those who don't fit one's preferences, be they SAHMs or strong career women.

[Nexus One]

I want a girl with goals and ambition because I have those same things. I have a master's degree, I value education, someone I see doesnt need to plan to earn a master's degree, but some sort of college degree, or graduating from a vocational school is a must.

 

A girl with no goals or ambitions just doesn't turn me on. If you're okay being some nursing/medical assistant and not actually going back to college to get your nursing degree, that is fine, but I'm not going to be interested.

 

My parents put a big emphasis on education, it is very important to me and it is very important to me that my partner shares that.

 

I didnt read all the posts, but I dont think anyone would agree that a college degree means you're smart and you can have a great conversation, and that lacking a college degree would make the previous two traits impossible.

 

Like I said, for me personally the fact whether or not I can have interesting and meaningful conversations with her is what matters in terms of intelligence. It's what builds a bond/connection, so that is what matters to me.

 

If she rings my bells, she rings my bells, ambition or no ambition, degree or no degree.

[Ruby Slippers]

I run my own start-up business that is really taking off, and I've noticed a few things lately.

 

1. When it comes to dating, most men my age and older (mid-30s and up) seem threatened by how well I'm doing -- unless they're doing better. Younger men, on the other hand (especially guys in their 20s), seem to love it, tell me I rock for doing so well, and cheer me on, which is awesome!

 

2. My male clients and business partners treat me like some kind of genius, love scheduling face-to-face meetings and lunches with me, and CONSTANTLY drop comments about how boring their stay-at-home wife is. This guy's wife called him a couple of times during our meeting the other day, and he quickly got rid of her, telling me, "She's bored at home with the kids and has nothing to do."

 

Why is it okay for women to like dominant alpha and want to feel protected but if men prefer a soft, feminine and nurturing type we are neanderthals who are afraid of strong women?

In running my business, I do need to be "alpha", and I'm learning to do it better all the time. But in a romantic relationship, I'm a sappy softie with a totally different approach. The business is about money, but the relationship is about love -- two totally different needs and priorities. I wish men would realize that a strong, successful woman has more facets to her personality. In a relationship, I prefer to let the man lead in the traditional ways, and I like to nurture in the traditional ways and am great at it. But if the **** hits the fan and I have to step up, I can and will.

[Nexus One]

In running my business, I do need to be "alpha", and I'm learning to do it better all the time. But in a romantic relationship, I'm a sappy softie with a totally different approach. The business is about money, but the relationship is about love -- two totally different needs and priorities. I wish men would realize that a strong, successful woman has more facets to her personality.

 

Unless you show the softer side of you to men who you are romantically interested in, you risk being seen as a tough woman with a masculine attitude. Which isn't very attractive.

 

I know of some successful women who have trouble getting a man and a relationship. They come across as tough and it takes either a very perceptive man to see through all the armor or a man at your own level of success to understand where you are coming from.

 

I have to be honest with you Ruby, I don't know you and at first I thought you were one of the softer women on this forum, but gradually, as I read more of your posts, that perception changed to you being a tough woman.

 

If you come across to men in real life as you have been coming across here on the forum in my perception, then I can see why they seem to find you intimidating.

 

Men deal with tough environments at work all day long, especially in testosterone filled corporate environments. When they come home, they want to unwind and be themselves with a woman who is soft with them. If a woman does not allow that or accommodate that, then she takes away one of the prime reasons for men to date her, i.e. her feminine personality.

 

I'm not saying that I sense this correctly, but it's just something I sensed, something I picked up on.

 

When you say:

 

I wish men would realize that a strong, successful woman has more facets to her personality.

 

Then I get what you mean. But my point is that I want to add that that is a two way street. Unless you allow men to see that softer side of you, then you risk being seen as the tough woman, the one that rocks in business, but also the one that is too tough for a relationship.

 

Both you and I understand that you need to be tough in business, both you and I understand that you need to be soft in love, but understanding that and the perception people have of you are two different things.

 

I just wanted to say that to you, in case I'm right. In that case it might be of some help to you, who knows.

[Casablanca]

I'm sorry, that sounds horribly elitist. I hope you didn't mean to really sound that way, did you? There is a difference between putting a big emphasis on education and having an elitist attitude. Being a nursing/medical assistant is a perfectly respectable career and the educational path to get there is also respectable.

 

No, there was no thesis involved, but IMO university education is completely overrated and sometimes people come away with a lack of respect for other professionals.

 

I spent eight years in university, had a 4.0, and have a degree, teaching certificate, and had a high paying career before I decided to become a stay at home mother. My goals and ambitions are no better than a medical/nursing assistant and neither are yours.

I didnt meant it to come off as elitist...and I probably described the job wrong. This wasnt the only thing with this one woman I was talking with at one time (she was kind of boring and didnt hold a conversation very well), but she works at some doctors office/small hospital thing, at the time she was thinking about going into actual nursing, but was puttsing around to get into a nursing program, and two years later I find out she is still just trying to get into a program. Her job, I know she didnt make much, and she said she was in a position that wasnt career worthy position; she said you had to just take a couple classes, didnt need an associates degree or anything. So if anything I probably described the position totally wrong. She'll be lucky to graduate by 30 at the rate she is going. She may have just been shy, but she didnt have much ambition to peruse her career she was interested in, so I lost interest very quickly and didnt give her any more chance...

 

Make sense? Like I said, from the sounds of it, I probably described the job wrong.

[Ruby Slippers]

I hear you. Thanks for the advice. I guess it's true that most of the time when I'm out and about during the day, I'm in business mode -- because everybody's a potential client, and I do sometimes meet people randomly who later hire me.

 

I'm very sensitive, and it actually works well for me to put on this "armor" when I go out into the world. When I'm in business mode, I'm fearless and can talk to anybody. I can go up to the most alpha guy in the room, introduce myself, and make an impression in conversation.

 

But in normal me mode, I'm pretty shy and girly, and would have a very hard time initiating a conversation with a man I found intriguing.

 

I probably need to go out just for fun more, and take off the "armor". Something to think about for the new year...

[InJest]

Kaylan, you make me laugh. College in the United States is a joke, and certainly does not qualify someone as educated. Some of the stupidest people I've ever met, I met at the University of Maryland and they became teachers of all things. Some of them even have Master's degrees..and teach 3rd grade.

 

I realized what a scam it was a couple years into getting my CompSci degree from the 14th ranked school in the country. I stopped going to class, partied harder than ever, and failed out. I'm now a software engineer at a neuroscience institution, making more money than both project managers on my team($93k)..who have Master's degrees.

 

Let me take a stab at what your degree is in...business administration?

Edited December 21, 2011 by InJest

[BWLoca]

When I talk to my younger male friends they echo this. Some are around your age and their view of relationships is very much of a partnership with shared financial responsibilities. In fact some of them complain that all this female empowerment hasn't trickled down to every woman in society and that a lot of girls just expect to waste some time at uni (studying English or History), meet some guy affluent enough to take care of them and stay at home with the kids.

 

I'm 39 but have almost exclusively dated men in their 20s for the last 10 years because they enjoy my independence and they have very relaxed views of gender roles. Men my age view my lifestyle with more suspicion and they don't always approve that I have income from several sources, pursue expensive hobbies such as sailing and that I can do my own D.I.Y.

 

The world is changing and some keep up better than others.

 

Whoa, what's wrong with an English degree?

[InJest]

What does an English degree qualify you to do?

[BWLoca]

What does an English degree qualify you to do?

 

Pretty much anything non-technical. Not everyone is interested in that kind of thing.

 

http://www.umanitoba.ca/student/counselling/WhatCanIDo/english.html

[Wolf18]

Why is it okay for women to like dominant alpha and want to feel protected but if men prefer a soft, feminine and nurturing type we are neanderthals who are afraid of strong women? Women always say they like to feel protected and like a man to take charge. If I have to live up to my role why shouldn't she?

 

There is nothing unattractive about an educated and successful woman but women who take on what they think are the worst make stereotypical traits because they think it empowers them are a major turn off. They don't know a thing about how men really are so how can they claim they live like one?

 

 

 

They, for the most part, expect men to be men, which I have no problem doing. But women aren't expected to be women, and if you want that it means you hate women etc.

 

The real reason people like Kaylan want women to be the way they are is because he doesn't want to share his (hypothetical?) money. Imagine that, getting married to someone and then being unwilling to share with them. He sounds more like he's selfish and wouldnt even share his wealth with a woman he married, than he does like a male-feminist who sheds a tear about how far women have come whenever Nancy Pelosi is shrieking about something on the tube.

[Woggle]

I wouldn't use Nancy Pelosi as an example. She has been happily married for years and was once even a stay at home. She is not the caricature the right loves to paint.

 

I have seen many men who can be as tough as nails when at their jobs but big softies at home. They check the hardness at the door when they clock out for the day. I really hate to generalize but I don't see the same with some women. They bring the business mentality into the relationship and it is nothing but constant fireworks and arguing. It feels like a man is constantly being tested with them.

 

I know not all women are like this so if you are successful and not like this please don't feel offended.

[InJest]

Pretty much anything non-technical. Not everyone is interested in that kind of thing.

 

http://www.umanitoba.ca/student/counselling/WhatCanIDo/english.html

 

I'd agree that it might qualify you for the editorial and non-creative writing positions on that list(maybe 10 of the 43 positions listed), but the rest could be done by someone with a high school diploma for sure. I'm curious, how does and English degree prepare one for a career in web development?

[lululucy]

I'd agree that it might qualify you for the editorial and non-creative writing positions on that list(maybe 10 of the 43 positions listed), but the rest could be done by someone with a high school diploma for sure. I'm curious, how does and English degree prepare one for a career in web development?

 

Could be but aren't. At least here in Canada, you don't get hired for much without a degree anymore. Even the managers at the McDonald's one of my friends works at has a Bachelors degree. Although now with so many people going on to university, it's becoming necessary to have secondary degrees either at a higher level or in a different field.

 

Funny that you chose my university's webpage to link

[Wolf18]

I'd agree that it might qualify you for the editorial and non-creative writing positions on that list(maybe 10 of the 43 positions listed), but the rest could be done by someone with a high school diploma for sure. I'm curious, how does and English degree prepare one for a career in web development?

 

 

Most jobs that require a college degree could be done by someone with a high school diploma.

 

The reason you need a degree for everything is because human resources *******s don't feel like sifting through 1,000 applications whenever there's an opening. Hence why you need a masters in "Library Science" just to work at a damn library.