I think we all need a brief lesson in psychology.

[RatsAreCool]

This will be my final post on this site. Hopefully, this addresses the black-and-white thinking I have encountered in my stay here.

 

I am not a psych major. I am, however, attending a well-known university on the west coast, enjoy reading about psychology for fun, and have many psych major friends with whom I have deep, long conversations on a regular basis.

 

First, I will address directly the concept of black-and-white thinking. I was discussing this with my friend--who just received his degree in psych--and he said that people often tend to categorize events in a this or that mindset, when it is often the case that the answer lies somewhere in the middle.

 

One encounters this most often in dogmatic political views. For instance, your Republican grandfather who insists that everything George Bush did was pure gold and nothing could be said against him (of course the same cuold be said for dogmatic Democrats about... I don't know, Jimmy Carter).

 

Now, we apply this to the advice "he's just not that into you" (worst phrase to ever be encountered in pop psych EVER). The basic premise of the phrase implies that if a guy really likes you, he'll do whatever it takes to get near you and won't let anything get in his way. This, in turn, assumes that human beings make sense. Please, let me enlighten you.

 

Human beings do NOT make sense.

 

Human beings often act in illogical ways.

 

Anyone who has ever spent any time with a human being should know this.

 

Now, this is not to say that it's NEVER the case that that guy stopped calling because he just didn't like you. It sometimes is. But it's not always the case. Thinking so is to way oversimplify our capabalities as human beings. We are able to simultaneously love and hate (I frequently feel both when I'm speaking to my mother). We are able to feel something for someone and not want to be with them. We are able to LOVE someone and not want to be with them.

 

This leads me to my explanation, briefly, of the approach-avoidance conflict. First, let's take a person, your average Joe, and say he has a goal in mind... learning to play the violin. Joe thinks that learning to play the violin is an awesome idea with tons of benefits... earning lots of money as a professional or something, doesn't matter. Anyway, this causes him to approach the goal by taking lessons.

 

However, he is also unnaturally afraid of making mistakes. And while he is progressing well as a beginning violinist, he still sounds like he is killing cats (all beginning violinists sound this way, I know, I was one at one time).

 

Joe becomes afraid that he will never make it as a violinist, and although this fear is largely in his head (remember, he's making good progress), he feels extremely ambivalent about continuing.

 

"Ambivalent" is the key word here. It means torn equally between two things. In this instance, Joe wants to learn to play the violin, but is equally afraid of failing. This may cause him to sometimes practice with a fury, but other times, miss his lessons. This may even eventually cause him to quit, although he really, really wanted to learn to play--and still does.

 

This is of course a simplified example.

 

However, this is an extremely prominent problem in close relationships. Here is a WHOLE GREAT BIG PAPER ON THE SUBJECT.

 

http://www.sydneysymposium.unsw.edu.au/2007/Chapters/GableSSSP07.pdf

 

Written by someone who can explain it far better than I.

 

But the simplified version is this. A person could want to be with you. He/she could think you're absolutely wonderful. But if they're afraid of getting hurt, then they might turn you down, out of fear.

 

What you choose to do with that knowledge is up to you. Deciding that their fear isn't your problem is totally understandable and likely more healthy. But the point is, one should not be so quick to dole out the "he's just not that into you's." If it were always that simple, none of us would be here.

 

That is my final word on anything I may have started on this site. I bid you all farewell. I won't hope that you'll be fine again, because I know you will be. And I hope that I've gotten you thinking a little bit more about your situation, whatever it may be.

 

Also, I think this song might make you all feel better.

 

Thought I'd cry for you forever,

but I couldn't, so I didn't.

People's children die, and they

don't even cry forever.

Thought I'd see your face in my mind for all time

but I don't even remember what your ears looked like.

 

Thought the mountains would crumble,

and the rivers would bend.

But I thought all wrong,

the world did not end.

The maps will just have to

stay the same for awhile.

Didn't even need therapy to rehabilitate my smile.

 

Thought I'd cry for you forever

but I couldn't, so I didn't.

People's children die,

and THEY don't even cry forever.

thought I'd see your face in my mind,

for all time.

But I don't...

[RatsAreCool]

No one who ever was anyone was ever normal.

 

And, since we're no longer being nice, I'm pretty sure you're an idiot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

REPORT ME.

[RatsAreCool]

1) I am right, and you are wrong.

2) At any point in time you could have chosen to stop arguing with me, but you didn't.

3) This seems to imply that you equally believe you are right and I am wrong.

 

 

Ergo, you are fourteen.

 

And, you are the one that has consistently brought my personality into question here, in a clearly derogatory way. Least I stuck to the point at hand.

 

And resisted the urge to call you an idiot till the end.

 

Although, you are the one who literally said "see a therapist" and "of course she told you [what you want to hear], you're paying her."

 

I paraphrase. But still. Logical fallacies you have yet to address...

 

Anyway this post is directed at anyone who's interested in REAL psych and not the stuff you read in stupid books based on lines from equally stupid tv shows.

[RatsAreCool]

Well, you did say that you "didn't know any therapists" who would give the advice mine did, which implies you've seen a few in your day.

 

AGain, you insult me, but you don't address my arguments.

 

 

Hmmmm.... I wonder why THAT could be...

[smokey bear]

@ rats are cool.........

 

 

BullS*it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

1) Fire your therapist, only a couples councillor who has met and understands both parties can dish out advice that "he has strong feelings for you"

 

Any decent therapist should also know that during a rebound relationship ( A relationship where a person has not dealt with past baggage) is primarily made up of intense feelings of infatuation that fizzle out once the honeymoon period has ended 3-5 months.

 

Black and white thinking is emotional and mental imaturity as i have just researched and understood and some people never develope past this in their life.

 

You have black and white thinking otherwise you would be able to think outside the box and take on board everyone's point of view. You would consider it and apply it to your situation as a possibility but you dont, your a black and white thinker.

 

It doesnt matter what anyone says, the only answer you will except is the one you want to hear and you will have a long road of recovery from this relationship in front of you.

 

Funnily through this research, its not your fault, you've just not developed yet.

 

Dont get offended at the advice given to you, its not incorrect it justy comes from people who can see outside the box.

 

Oh and for the record, he's just not that into you..............

[geegirl]

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t298352/

 

Rats, I believe about three months ago, in a thread you started (above), you mentioned that your therapist diagnosed your mother. I retorted. A good therapist only diagnoses her own patient. Unless she has had time with your ex or mother, then and only then can she evaluate their state of mind. It is unprofessional of her to feed you information about a third party based on thoughts and feelings that YOU provide her about your ex.

 

Three months ago you were analyzing his actions. And you're still doing the same. And those that gave you legitimate advice, you shunned. You need to hear what you need to hear. Maybe if you start to listen and do something different, you won't be spending the next few months doing and talking about the same thing.

 

If you define nice as boring, then you should be spending the time with your therapist uncovering that mindset. If you are building your foundation on that mindset at the young age of 21, you're going to be creating a very damaging and unhealthy path for yourself.

Edited December 19, 2011 by geegirl

[mike588]

You were in a rebound as stated above...believe me I KNOW...he never developed a deep emotional connection with you because his heart was elsewhere.

 

Oh do I know what your going thru...stop trying to analyze it..I about lost my mind doing that..I couldn't take it anymore..it's not going to change the outcome.

 

Please learn from this...it's a learning and growing experience that we all have to go thru..learn from this and move on...I know its extremely difficult.

 

My best to you.

[YouNeverKnow86]

You were in a rebound as stated above...believe me I KNOW...he never developed a deep emotional connection with you because his heart was elsewhere.

 

Oh do I know what your going thru...stop trying to analyze it..I about lost my mind doing that..I couldn't take it anymore..it's not going to change the outcome.

 

Please learn from this...it's a learning and growing experience that we all have to go thru..learn from this and move on...I know its extremely difficult.

 

My best to you.

 

A rebound 2 years later? I made a thread about this and it fascinates me......Can people be that emotionally screwed up that they constantly repeat rebounds because of emotional baggage from a past relationship?

[RatsAreCool]

You completely and utterly misudnerstood what I said about my mother. My therapist never said anything about my mother. I was using that as an example.

 

...then how do you explain his behavior now?

 

No one has answered that question. To me it is beyond proof. After all we've been through, after all the hurtful things we've said and done, after all the GUILT he confessed he felt to a third party... he still went out of his way to talk to me.

 

Not just talk to me. But spend time with me. Actually hang out. With excitement in his eyes.

 

You all keep saying to get a therapist. Well I have one. And when I said she agreed with me, you dismissed her opinion as invalid. Instead of taking the fact that she has a degree and has been doing her job for 20 years, so probably knows what she's talking about better than you. Whose only experience is also being dumped, you all seem to forget.

 

So it's pretty funny that you level these accusations at me, when you were all dumped for the same reasons, according to your definition. He/she was JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU.

 

So why don't you get over it and move on?

 

Not that simple, is it? Or else why are you here?

 

And as to accusations of being mentally immature. That's pretty laughable. My critical thinking skills are quite excellent. I have the grades to prove it.

 

I know I'll never prove anything to you people, and I know I shouldn't feel the need to. But being me, I can't help myself.

 

REally. Pick up a book sometime. You might better yourselves. And not "he's just not that into you." It's not real psych. It's literally a line based on something in Sex and the City. And if that's what you know about psych... then that's sad.

[geegirl]

You completely and utterly misudnerstood what I said about my mother. My therapist never said anything about my mother. I was using that as an example.

 

...then how do you explain his behavior now?

 

No one has answered that question. To me it is beyond proof. After all we've been through, after all the hurtful things we've said and done, after all the GUILT he confessed he felt to a third party... he still went out of his way to talk to me.

 

Not just talk to me. But spend time with me. Actually hang out. With excitement in his eyes.

 

You all keep saying to get a therapist. Well I have one. And when I said she agreed with me, you dismissed her opinion as invalid. Instead of taking the fact that she has a degree and has been doing her job for 20 years, so probably knows what she's talking about better than you. Whose only experience is also being dumped, you all seem to forget.

 

So it's pretty funny that you level these accusations at me, when you were all dumped for the same reasons, according to your definition. He/she was JUST NOT THAT INTO YOU.

 

So why don't you get over it and move on?

 

Not that simple, is it? Or else why are you here?

 

And as to accusations of being mentally immature. That's pretty laughable. My critical thinking skills are quite excellent. I have the grades to prove it.

 

I know I'll never prove anything to you people, and I know I shouldn't feel the need to. But being me, I can't help myself.

 

REally. Pick up a book sometime. You might better yourselves. And not "he's just not that into you." It's not real psych. It's literally a line based on something in Sex and the City. And if that's what you know about psych... then that's sad.

 

If you know so much about "psych", you shouldn't be on here. You should be perfectly fine dissecting and analyzing your ex and standing confident with your findings based on the help of your outstanding therapist, your love for reading and the advice of your friend. Instead, months later, you're still on the same merry-go-round.

 

We're all emotionally and mentally challenged and have never read books before nor have we learnt life lessons that have been far more educational, rewarding and most importantly valueable to any book sitting on a shelf. Now that you have picked one up, I'm sure you will be far more educated in dealing with the mindset of your ex.

 

What's sad is no matter how much of reading you do, the simple fact remains, he has chosen not to be with you, no matter what label you slap on him. You may be an intellectual, but when it comes to matters of the heart, you're sorely stunted and blinded. Grades don't render you smart when it comes to making right choices about your emotional well-being.

 

While everyone has moved on, you're still trying to connect dots and not because you're curious about the human mind and it's form but more so because you need to find some sort of answer to ease your pain. Simple.

 

Good luck to you. I hope you find the missing link.

Edited December 19, 2011 by geegirl

[betterdeal]

RatsAreCool, you sound like quite a thoughtful person who's trying to make peace with a major upset in your life by understanding it better. I agree with you that there is lots of ill-advice on this site, and also that we are all complex being with a range of feelings, some seemingly contradictory, about people in our lives.

 

I think one tool that may be of use to you is "emotional detachment". My impression (and it is only an impression) is you are getting emotionally entangled here with posters who you may never agree with, and that's not adding to the sum happiness or meaningfulness in your life.

[PelicanPete]

So I've never read any of Rats posts, nor do I know her situation, but none of that should even matter in this thread because she never even compared/contrasted the information with her relationship. So why was it even brought up?

 

What should be talked about is what she wrote in her first post.

 

Rats, I agree with what you said. Not only out of personal experience, but because I actually go to school for psychology myself.

 

There is a lot of black and white thinking in the break up forum, but then again it is understandable. People arrive at LS because they're heartbroken and confused. They may already know what to do regarding their breakup, and they may already have the answers for what the "right" thing to do is in the back of their mind, but they probably need some positive reinforcement and support. To use your example, they feel like Joe the violinist.

 

People are extremely complicated. Sure there are very general and basic behaviors that all human beings share, but the way every person feels can't be broken down to a single equation. For an LS example, just because two people of similar circumstances were dumped in the same way, doesn't mean the dumpers left for the same reasons. It is all deeply and very subjective depending upon the people involved. Although it seems like common sense, common sense seems to be hard to find some days.

 

With that said, just because someone on LS doesn't accept the generic mold of the "break up advice" doesn't mean that people can start throwing personal attacks and start making judgments and assumptions about them. Not every single person is going to fit in the cookie cutter definitions LS creates. That doesn't make them stupid.

 

So maybe if people actually read the first post instead of throwing personal attacks at the original poster, you'd realize how ironic this is .

[fiat500]

I agree that people and situations are never black and white. But perhaps it's easier to think so in order to kill off any lingering emotions you may have or to prevent ourselves from having false hope. I'm sure that most exes who dump someone will look back on that person and remember a few good things but it won't really mean a thing to that ex in the end. They'll never know.

 

Most exes never return anyway so believing that you were loved by an ex but they just couldn't be with you won't make a difference. At the end of the day, your ex still isn't with you and the heartbroken are looking to move forward and not feel the pain of abandonment anymore. You can't keep a wound open even if the circumstances of a breakup were in the gray area.

 

If someone says "i love you but can't be with you,' you're still going to feel hurt, angry, and have some kind of disdain for them

 

Eventually all heartbroken people reach the same emotional plane where they've moved on and have forgiven or just don't care anymore or all three. So one can villanize an ex or put them up on a pedestal all they want. They still have to move past it and resolve it regardless

[SincereOnlineGuy]

This will be my final post on this site...

 

 

 

Aaaaaaaand another clueless fool steps out to identify himself as such.

 

 

Just what we need.

 

 

Next???

 

 

 

(Rats', some advice for life on your other, future boards: )

 

 

Learn how to hear and accept "no" and "you are entirely incorrect" as answers, and then move along.

[Dust]

Rats seems to be losing perspective and psychology isn't all its cracked up to be. First and foremost this entire post is hypocrytical because it fights it's own point with out that meaning to be the point.

 

My advice will always be some what black and white on this site because a) people always need to use their own judgment b) I'm basing it on my opinion which often has come to a black and white conclusion based on the way I understood the information c) I'm rarely specific so even if the OP agrees with my advice there are many blanks to fill in... d) finally what fun would it be if the answer to every post was "well it could be anything really just do what you think is best and time will make things clearer"

[gibson]

finally what fun would it be if the answer to every post was "well it could be anything really just do what you think is best and time will make things clearer"

 

It's pretty much what people are going to think and do anyway based on what I have seen in real life / read on here.

 

You are correct though it wouldn't be as much fun... I would miss the I stalked my Ex on Facebook and you will never believe what they did threads or the I am trying to be friends with my Ex and it's killing me slowly threads or the they dumped me and are dating someone else, do you think we are over or do you think they want me back still threads.

 

Just saying...

[Zabs]

It's not black and white thinking. You just get advice on a VERY simple situation and you don't like it. You then want to excuse it as "we are too black and white". There are many stories with grey area's on this site. This isn't one of them. It doesn't matter what your 'ex' suffers from. He is an emotionally unavailable man, who will never want to be in a relationship with you.

 

You find stable and nice to be "boring". You are very eccentric and seem to need drama in your life. That is not healthy, but you refuse to accept your real issues. You are going to therapy, but I can tell you it's not working. I don't know one good therapist who would diagnose a person she has never met. Therapy should be about one thing and one thing only. Focusing on YOU. You are over analzying your ex, because you don't want to look at whats deep inside of you. A therapist can only help if you are honest with them. How can you be honest with your therapist, when you are not being honest with yourself?

 

You come across as a odd individual. Your post above is odd. You are leaving? Honestly I say good riddance. I think (actually I know) you have a VERY complex future ahead of you. Good luck. I believe you will need it...

 

 

Wow! What a very aggressive, negative approach:mad:

 

I am qualified as a Therapist and I think that while you are right, a Therapist would not comment on a person they haven't met, they can certainly comment on the apparent 'themes' in behaviour.

 

I think there are people on this site who feel raw from their break ups...irrespective of the amount of time that has elapsed and sometimes tend to project that anger, frustration, etc on others. This is known as Displacement.

 

Perhaps you could do with seeing a Therapist? You 'appear' to be very angry right now.

 

:confused:Zabs

[lolita jade]

I dont like the personal attack on Rats. None of us need to hear negative things against us. We are here for support.

 

The only thing I can say is If we didnt have love inside our body things would be black and white. It would be easy to say move on or next!!

 

Our hearts make the area grey.

[Zabs]

RatsAreCool, you sound like quite a thoughtful person who's trying to make peace with a major upset in your life by understanding it better. I agree with you that there is lots of ill-advice on this site, and also that we are all complex being with a range of feelings, some seemingly contradictory, about people in our lives.

 

I think one tool that may be of use to you is "emotional detachment". My impression (and it is only an impression) is you are getting emotionally entangled here with posters who you may never agree with, and that's not adding to the sum happiness or meaningfulness in your life.

 

 

It's nice to see some members are able to support and understand as opposed to attacking...nice one Deal!

 

I think though a lesson to be learnt Rats is that sometimes by posting 'out there' kinda threads...can sometimes cause a lot of controversy on sites like this. I too have been subject to such...but as I DO have a qualification in Counselling..I guess it's kinda easier.

 

I liked the 'he's just not that into you comment'.. I agree with you...how cliche! That's just what a person says that can't be bothered having the conversation about someone else's behaviour. That is my view.

 

Having said that, I also think, as a person myself who has issues..it is always good to lok at yourself and see what patterns emerge from that. There are always reasons for what we d, even if the explanations are obscured from sight/conscious mind. It is the nature of people to grow and learn...simple processes.

 

I would perhaps consider looking a little more at myself than the behaviours of anyone else..because the following is true...You cannot change the behaviours of another. You can change yourself and the way in which you react to such behaviours and this may or may not have a beneficial influence to significant others...but you come first.

 

Hope you are well honey:)

 

Much love,

 

Zabs xxx

[Zabs]

I dont like the personal attack on Rats. None of us need to hear negative things against us. We are here for support.

 

The only thing I can say is If we didnt have love inside our body things would be black and white. It would be easy to say move on or next!!

 

Our hearts make the area grey.

 

 

That's lovely Lolita:)

 

Much love

 

Zabs xx