Do I have to change who I am to date successfully?

[North by Southeast]

I really don't know what's wrong with me.

 

I'm 24, trying to make something of myself (I'm a professional student in a prestigious program), and I'm not bad looking (a number of women have called me "cute"), but lately I've seemed to have real trouble just getting a date. When I've had them lately, I haven't even been able to get a second one.

 

The two dates I've been on this semester have been frustrating. I've had a good time with the women I've been out with. In the back of my head, I kept an eye on my behavior - making sure I wasn't supplicative, overeager, or doing something that would otherwise be unattractive. I definitely showed at least some physical interest on my dates (I made out for a few seconds at the end of the date with the second girl) but somehow, I'm just doing it wrong. I should say that those two were from online dating; I've asked a few girls out in real life this semester too, but have always been turned down.

 

I always wonder if my problem is what I've read in other threads - about how many women, regardless of what they say, want you to be clear about your sexual intentions from the get go and try to bed them on the first couple of dates. I have a high libido and would gladly sleep with a girl on the first date if given the chance (though I am looking to forge a relationship).

 

I've been reading things such as:

• Girls who do online dating skim of the top 5% of guys who message them and readily bang them, while being prudish with the rest
  
• You have to be outwardly sexual on the first couple of dates or the girl will lose interest
  
• Be as detached as possible/play to a woman's insecurities
  

 

etc, etc.

 

My problem is that all of these things run counter to my personality. I obviously have a very high interest in sex but I'm not one to go and overtly try to bed a woman on the first date. I don't know how, and even if I did I have a suspicion that I'd come off actually looking like a complete tool than the sexual creature that women seem to want (I'm not super-awkward, but I'm not an alpha male). I haven't gotten laid since this summer yet I feel like everyone else is, and there's just some secret I'm not in on.

 

I feel like, based on what I've heard, I need to utterly change my personality to get anywhere with women. I had a great LTR with a girl a few years ago, but once that ended I haven't found anything that's come remotely close. I'm not looking for just sex (though at this point I'll gladly take it seeing as how long it's been), I'm looking for an actual relationship, too, but are aggression and mind games really the only way to keep women interested? It feels so forced; I don't want to have to change who I am just to get a date or keep a girl around, and I don't even think I could change if I wanted to. I feel like I have varied interests, decent looks, and some personality, but I wonder if there's just not enough mystery, intrigue, etc., in me to be appealing to women.

 

I'm not judging guys who are successful with these tactics. But it's just not me.

Edited December 17, 2011 by North by Southeast

[Lonely Ronin]

Just be yourself, and everything else will follow in time, and stop reading /listening to the crap some people spew out on the internet about how to me women. There is no correct way to do it.

 

As they saying goes free your mind and your ass will follow.

[monkey00]

I think since going back into the dating scene, I do see your struggles sharing similarity to mine.

 

I was having a talk yesterday with my friend and we were discussing about this very topic and this is what we spoke about: In a nutshell it depends on the kind of woman you meet, sometimes they just don't want to jump through hoops and keep on going on dates with a guy just to get in the sack. While there are some women who hold out and truly want to get to know a guy first before doing anything sexual, there are those who want to see how a guy is in the sack very soon before they decide if they are relationship material or worth continuing seeing him.

 

Speed dating statistics show that a woman will know whether or not they like a guy within the first few seconds of seeing him, so that 3 minutes of chatter doesn't really do much. So therefore back to the above, a guy will have a small window to make his move...and if he misses his chance he's out of luck. Usually women will respect a man more if he is assertive about his desires versus not showing it, if he doesn't show it he easily falls into the friends zone. Women love sex as such as men and they are no different than us. It's hard to understand from a guy's standpoint, but women want to be wanted and needed (sexually), it also makes them feel attractive to be desired.

[Eddie Edirol]

All that stuff you think you have to do, or you think those women want, isnt true. You dont have to change who you are, but you do have to learn some tactics and psychology to attract those women on campus. You just have to do more research online. The information is out there, its alot to learn, but once you learn it, you will understand why people have so much trouble.

[Shaun-Dro]

I really don't know what's wrong with me.

 

I'm 24, trying to make something of myself (I'm a professional student in a prestigious program), and I'm not bad looking (a number of women have called me "cute"), but lately I've seemed to have real trouble just getting a date. When I've had them lately, I haven't even been able to get a second one.

 

The two dates I've been on this semester have been frustrating. I've had a good time with the women I've been out with. In the back of my head, I kept an eye on my behavior - making sure I wasn't supplicative, overeager, or doing something that would otherwise be unattractive. I definitely showed at least some physical interest on my dates (I made out for a few seconds at the end of the date with the second girl) but somehow, I'm just doing it wrong. I should say that those two were from online dating; I've asked a few girls out in real life this semester too, but have always been turned down.

 

I always wonder if my problem is what I've read in other threads - about how many women, regardless of what they say, want you to be clear about your sexual intentions from the get go and try to bed them on the first couple of dates. I have a high libido and would gladly sleep with a girl on the first date if given the chance (though I am looking to forge a relationship).

 

 

I've been reading things such as:

• Girls who do online dating skim of the top 5% of guys who message them and readily bang them, while being prudish with the rest
  
• You have to be outwardly sexual on the first couple of dates or the girl will lose interest
  
• Be as detached as possible/play to a woman's insecurities
  

etc, etc.

 

My problem is that all of these things run counter to my personality. I obviously have a very high interest in sex but I'm not one to go and overtly try to bed a woman on the first date. I don't know how, and even if I did I have a suspicion that I'd come off actually looking like a complete tool than the sexual creature that women seem to want (I'm not super-awkward, but I'm not an alpha male). I haven't gotten laid since this summer yet I feel like everyone else is, and there's just some secret I'm not in on.

 

I feel like, based on what I've heard, I need to utterly change my personality to get anywhere with women. I had a great LTR with a girl a few years ago, but once that ended I haven't found anything that's come remotely close. I'm not looking for just sex (though at this point I'll gladly take it seeing as how long it's been), I'm looking for an actual relationship, too, but are aggression and mind games really the only way to keep women interested? It feels so forced; I don't want to have to change who I am just to get a date or keep a girl around, and I don't even think I could change if I wanted to. I feel like I have varied interests, decent looks, and some personality, but I wonder if there's just not enough mystery, intrigue, etc., in me to be appealing to women.

 

I'm not judging guys who are successful with these tactics. But it's just not me.

 

I'm going to give this to you the only way I know how: some men have it from birth to attract women and get laid without having to do much, while others will always struggle and never have what it takes.

 

Of course you'll eventually land an average girl every now and again with a heap of effort put in (meaning that you'll have to put in 100 attempts to yield back 1-2 positive results) but you'll never become popular with these women. Just like some will become wealthy while others will only survive.

 

Either you have it or you don't. No man-made book is going to really teach you how to become that "special man" to appease these women. You can always improve on certain things, like being less clingy and increase your physical attributes, but to suddenly get the "pick of the lot" as far as the women are concerned will never happen if it hasn't happened already.

 

You can't really change who you are deep-down. Women on a larger scale gravitate to outgoing cocky men with a attitude. If you're more subdued it will not help your chances. You'll attract a few. Everyone manages to get a little play from someone, but more likely than not it won't be who you're really pining for.

 

I've never been a hit with women. I've come to accept it. I don't enjoy it to be that way. I wish things were different but they aren't. I am who I am and I can't change completely from the inside out to suddenly become a lady-magnet.

 

Meanwhile, my older brother needs a bat to beat women off him wherever he goes. He's been given that gift. He doesn't even try hard. He just has that knack to attract them just by being who he is. Of course he's a good looking guy so that helps his cause. But it's more of his personality. These women have the sixth sense to sniff out that kind of man. It's innate.

 

It's not really about being nice or being a criminal. Others on here will tell you such nonsense. It's totally untrue. My brother is a cool, laidback guy, and does fantastic with women. I don't. Even back in my nice-guy days none of it mattered. It just wasn't in the cards for me. The same applies to you and many others, unfortunately.

 

My best advice is to just live your life to the best of your ability without her romantic presence. Don't go looking for her because you won't find her but you will find rejection and aggravation in its place. If it's meant to be, you'll stumble upon her when you're not expecting it. She might look good to you or she won't, but you will find some when you're not looking. It's up to you to act on it when the chance arises, that is if you're attracted to her. Just keep an open mind about it and try not to let it get you down.

 

I know it's difficult because of the need of wanting to love and to receive it in return but you can't force it where it doesn't apply. You can only give it to the person who deserves it and wants to return it just the same.

[cdm369]

Agree that you have to be yourself. You said you were monitoring yourself on those dates. You shouldn't be doing that. You have to let them see who you really are. May be why you didn't get second dates. People often pick up on if their date is sincere or acting a part. Be who you are and the right one will come along....usually when you're not looking.

[chryssy83]

I am female. I have never been on a first date that didn't lead to an invitation for a second date. Not once. I'm attractive, but not ridiculously hot. And I don't bed them (I didn't even kiss very many on the first date).

 

I say that just to lend some credibility (I hope) to what I'm saying here. Don't change who you are, but it's okay to hold some things back when you first meet. You don't want to say/do things that are red flags for a woman. Some questions I had for you after reading your post:

 

1) Are you meeting all these women online? If so, how accurately do your photos reflect your appearance? If not, how much do you talk to them before setting up the date?

 

2) What are you holding back? What do you think you could say/do in the presence of the ideal woman that you don't think the girls on your date are going to appreciate?

 

3) Do you talk about them? The conversation should be 30-40% about you and 60-70% about them. People love to talk about themselves....do you love to talk about yourself too much?

 

4) When you talk, is it more like a job interview or do you share a few intimate moments/develop some inside jokes?

 

5) What do the women you date have in common with each other?

 

I am sure I can think of other things. Ugh...reading a post like this makes me want to go on a date with you so I can tell you what I think you are doing that turns women off!!

 

And I don't think for a minute that women are turning you down because you don't get physical soon enough. Women who respect themselves and are looking for serious relationships aren't the type who sleep with guys on the first date all the time....think of how many men they would be with if they did that. I think you are reading some BS advice online from guys who think that being a player is the same as being successful at dating.

 

You'll find her....it just takes time.

[North by Southeast]

I am female. I have never been on a first date that didn't lead to an invitation for a second date. Not once. I'm attractive, but not ridiculously hot. And I don't bed them (I didn't even kiss very many on the first date).

 

I say that just to lend some credibility (I hope) to what I'm saying here. Don't change who you are, but it's okay to hold some things back when you first meet. You don't want to say/do things that are red flags for a woman. Some questions I had for you after reading your post:

 

1) Are you meeting all these women online? If so, how accurately do your photos reflect your appearance? If not, how much do you talk to them before setting up the date?

 

2) What are you holding back? What do you think you could say/do in the presence of the ideal woman that you don't think the girls on your date are going to appreciate?

 

3) Do you talk about them? The conversation should be 30-40% about you and 60-70% about them. People love to talk about themselves....do you love to talk about yourself too much?

 

4) When you talk, is it more like a job interview or do you share a few intimate moments/develop some inside jokes?

 

5) What do the women you date have in common with each other?

 

I am sure I can think of other things. Ugh...reading a post like this makes me want to go on a date with you so I can tell you what I think you are doing that turns women off!!

 

And I don't think for a minute that women are turning you down because you don't get physical soon enough. Women who respect themselves and are looking for serious relationships aren't the type who sleep with guys on the first date all the time....think of how many men they would be with if they did that. I think you are reading some BS advice online from guys who think that being a player is the same as being successful at dating.

 

You'll find her....it just takes time.

 

1. My last two dates I've met online. My profile picture is very accurate (I hate it when other people lie in their pictures so I don't do it in mine). I exchanged about 4 messages with the first one before we met plus we instant messaged a bit. There was a little less pre-communication with the second girl, but she actually contacted me first.

 

2. The only thing I think I'm holding back is just what I said - making sure I don't appear supplicative or overeager (and I'm not really a supplicative person anyway, so that's not much of an issue). Other than that I think I'm pretty much myself. I don't really say or do anything too out of the ordinary.

 

3. Probably about 50/50 on an average date.

 

4. The conversations were flowing pretty well and we shared some laughs. There were only a couple of moments where one of us had to ask a question to "restart" the conversation.

 

5. Honestly, I'm not sure. I tend to date women who are well-educated and aren't "woo girls." Other than that, I don't think they really follow a pattern. I think both of my last two dates were both ex-hard-partiers (which I never really was), so there you are.

 

See, that's the thing. I don't know if I'm doing anything to turn them off - I think it's more that I'm doing nothing to turn them on. Know what I mean?

[Dust]

Be yourself for a change and have fun. Also I would stop all online dating and ask/flirt with large ammounts of women in real life.

 

Have fun and don't worry so much if the women like you back.

[monkey00]

I wouldn't take it personally. There could be a zillion reasons why a girl doesn't want to continue to date you. You get used to it and build a tolerance for this after awhile. You will know though when you meet the right girl who's ready for a relationship.

[oldguy]

I am female. I have never been on a first date that didn't lead to an invitation for a second date. Not once. I'm attractive, but not ridiculously hot. And I don't bed them (I didn't even kiss very many on the first date).

 

I say that just to lend some credibility (I hope) to what I'm saying here. Don't change who you are, but it's okay to hold some things back when you first meet. You don't want to say/do things that are red flags for a woman. Some questions I had for you after reading your post:

 

1) Are you meeting all these women online? If so, how accurately do your photos reflect your appearance? If not, how much do you talk to them before setting up the date?

 

2) What are you holding back? What do you think you could say/do in the presence of the ideal woman that you don't think the girls on your date are going to appreciate?

 

3) Do you talk about them? The conversation should be 30-40% about you and 60-70% about them. People love to talk about themselves....do you love to talk about yourself too much?

 

4) When you talk, is it more like a job interview or do you share a few intimate moments/develop some inside jokes?

 

5) What do the women you date have in common with each other?

 

I am sure I can think of other things. Ugh...reading a post like this makes me want to go on a date with you so I can tell you what I think you are doing that turns women off!!

 

And I don't think for a minute that women are turning you down because you don't get physical soon enough. Women who respect themselves and are looking for serious relationships aren't the type who sleep with guys on the first date all the time....think of how many men they would be with if they did that. I think you are reading some BS advice online from guys who think that being a player is the same as being successful at dating.

 

You'll find her....it just takes time.

I was reading through some of the responses here purely for the amusement of some peoples perspectives & then came across this one which is well thought out & well said As an ex-shrink I especially found the last paragraph to be accurate & refreshing. Someone here said men & woman are the same, NO WE ARE NOT! & viva la difference

[El Brujo]

Half of it has to do with your outlook. If you never think of yourself as a catch, you're always going to feel like you're missing out.

 

My solution to the problem has been to turn things around by 180 degrees. My diet is working and I don't look as fat as I did a couple of months ago, plus I'm immersing myself in the 3 new jobs I started, I've filled up half a tool shed already with junk around the house I want to get rid of... in short, turning myself into more of a catch.

 

But the key is to work on yourself until you get your s. together and become a catch, then you can feel satisfied that it's the women who are missing out on something---YOU!!!

 

I realize this sounds a bit arrogant, but hey... at least if you do get your s. together, you'll have something worth being arrogant about.

[Pizzaman81]

It's your attitude man. If you feel like you have to stoop to the level of being disrespectful to women to get them... then uh... see you on the Jerry Springer Show!

[FitChick]

It's not so much that you are doing anything right or wrong but that these were the wrong women -- for you. Remember that each "failed" date brings you one more woman closer to YOUR woman. Use these dates to learn about yourself and about all the different types of women out there so you will immediately recognize Miss Right when you meet her. Don't desperately hang onto anyone you are dating, even if she is wrong. Women make the same mistakes in dating as well. It's all a learning experience.

[chryssy83]

Do you only have one photo? They say women figure out in the first several seconds whether they want to go out with a guy again. That may make you nervous, but really it should mean there is very little pressure. Dress nicely, smile, be polite. And realize she will get the vibe she gets and there isn't a lot you can do.

 

What would you do that you think would seem overeager? I am very turned off by guys I term too "eager beaver." But maybe your definition of overeager is not that eager at all, and by holding back you are giving them a vibe that you aren't interested.

 

Talk about the ladies more. Choose topics that really help you get to know them. Not just "do you like your job" or "how many siblings do you have." Ask about relationships or what is important to her, her goals, places she wants to travel, why she does things instead of just what she does, etc.

 

What is a "woo girl"? Haha...I think all women like to be wooed a little. Do you mean that the women you are interested in are more independent and self-sufficient? On a first date, you should always compliment her (although not creepy-- more "I'm glad I met you/you look nice/that's a really great jacket" and less "You are really beautiful/stunning/incredible."

 

I think maybe you should try not holding back on being eager. You can say that you are happy you met her, that you hope to see her again, etc. on a first date. A lot of people on here say to play games with a girl, but on date one she will probably appreciate that you show interest. Otherwise, just accept that not every girl will be the right girl for you. It's okay to be enthusiastic, just make sure it's in a "happy to meet you" kind of way and not a "please please please go out with me again" kind of way.

[darkmoon]

to me, am a woman, a man being sexy on a first date is a signal that a man wants a one night stand; i start to think that there's nowhere else to go with this date-time use of a potential friendship/love and that the guy is a player

 

yes, women flirt and like to look as good as possibe, and look, this is just my two cents

[YaOldBuckaroo]

I really don't know what's wrong with me.

 

I'm 24, trying to make something of myself (I'm a professional student in a prestigious program), and I'm not bad looking (a number of women have called me "cute"), but lately I've seemed to have real trouble just getting a date. When I've had them lately, I haven't even been able to get a second one.

 

The two dates I've been on this semester have been frustrating. I've had a good time with the women I've been out with. In the back of my head, I kept an eye on my behavior - making sure I wasn't supplicative, overeager, or doing something that would otherwise be unattractive. I definitely showed at least some physical interest on my dates (I made out for a few seconds at the end of the date with the second girl) but somehow, I'm just doing it wrong. I should say that those two were from online dating; I've asked a few girls out in real life this semester too, but have always been turned down.

 

I always wonder if my problem is what I've read in other threads - about how many women, regardless of what they say, want you to be clear about your sexual intentions from the get go and try to bed them on the first couple of dates. I have a high libido and would gladly sleep with a girl on the first date if given the chance (though I am looking to forge a relationship).

 

I've been reading things such as:

• Girls who do online dating skim of the top 5% of guys who message them and readily bang them, while being prudish with the rest
  
• You have to be outwardly sexual on the first couple of dates or the girl will lose interest
  
• Be as detached as possible/play to a woman's insecurities
  

 

etc, etc.

 

My problem is that all of these things run counter to my personality. I obviously have a very high interest in sex but I'm not one to go and overtly try to bed a woman on the first date. I don't know how, and even if I did I have a suspicion that I'd come off actually looking like a complete tool than the sexual creature that women seem to want (I'm not super-awkward, but I'm not an alpha male). I haven't gotten laid since this summer yet I feel like everyone else is, and there's just some secret I'm not in on.

 

I feel like, based on what I've heard, I need to utterly change my personality to get anywhere with women. I had a great LTR with a girl a few years ago, but once that ended I haven't found anything that's come remotely close. I'm not looking for just sex (though at this point I'll gladly take it seeing as how long it's been), I'm looking for an actual relationship, too, but are aggression and mind games really the only way to keep women interested? It feels so forced; I don't want to have to change who I am just to get a date or keep a girl around, and I don't even think I could change if I wanted to. I feel like I have varied interests, decent looks, and some personality, but I wonder if there's just not enough mystery, intrigue, etc., in me to be appealing to women.

 

I'm not judging guys who are successful with these tactics. But it's just not me.

 

Hey there

 

Girls are naturally attracted to guys that show confidence and good social value. Being able to socially interact efficiently with both males and females add to your social value. Other things, such as knowing how to play a guitar or starting conversations that really keep the girl engaged help add to the image you project upon her, which should ideally be one of good social value.

 

Good looks will help, but not as much as your ability to keep girls entertained.

Here's a helpful article with some tips on building sexual attraction in a girl's mind:

 

http://www.scribd.com/doc/4654457/Attract-Women-With-4-Routines-From-Black-Belt-Seduction

 

Max

[fortyninethousand322]

I'm going to give this to you the only way I know how: some men have it from birth to attract women and get laid without having to do much, while others will always struggle and never have what it takes.

 

Of course you'll eventually land an average girl every now and again with a heap of effort put in (meaning that you'll have to put in 100 attempts to yield back 1-2 positive results) but you'll never become popular with these women. Just like some will become wealthy while others will only survive.

 

Either you have it or you don't. No man-made book is going to really teach you how to become that "special man" to appease these women. You can always improve on certain things, like being less clingy and increase your physical attributes, but to suddenly get the "pick of the lot" as far as the women are concerned will never happen if it hasn't happened already.

 

You can't really change who you are deep-down. Women on a larger scale gravitate to outgoing cocky men with a attitude. If you're more subdued it will not help your chances. You'll attract a few. Everyone manages to get a little play from someone, but more likely than not it won't be who you're really pining for.

 

I've never been a hit with women. I've come to accept it. I don't enjoy it to be that way. I wish things were different but they aren't. I am who I am and I can't change completely from the inside out to suddenly become a lady-magnet.

 

Meanwhile, my older brother needs a bat to beat women off him wherever he goes. He's been given that gift. He doesn't even try hard. He just has that knack to attract them just by being who he is. Of course he's a good looking guy so that helps his cause. But it's more of his personality. These women have the sixth sense to sniff out that kind of man. It's innate.

 

It's not really about being nice or being a criminal. Others on here will tell you such nonsense. It's totally untrue. My brother is a cool, laidback guy, and does fantastic with women. I don't. Even back in my nice-guy days none of it mattered. It just wasn't in the cards for me. The same applies to you and many others, unfortunately.

 

My best advice is to just live your life to the best of your ability without her romantic presence. Don't go looking for her because you won't find her but you will find rejection and aggravation in its place. If it's meant to be, you'll stumble upon her when you're not expecting it. She might look good to you or she won't, but you will find some when you're not looking. It's up to you to act on it when the chance arises, that is if you're attracted to her. Just keep an open mind about it and try not to let it get you down.

 

I know it's difficult because of the need of wanting to love and to receive it in return but you can't force it where it doesn't apply. You can only give it to the person who deserves it and wants to return it just the same.

 

Finally someone actually comes out and says it. As Rod Stewart said: "some guys have all the luck, some guys have all the pain".

 

It's a well known fact that some men will have to jump through hoops over and over again to land only girl who "might" be interested. The women who criticize men who settle are the same women who will gladly chase an outgoing guy. This is what I wish my father would have told me when I was growing up.

[thatone]

yeah well men don't grow up with fathers anymore, they grow up with their mothers as single parents.

 

if their fathers were around they would be there to tell them "everything your mother just repeated to you from oprah and women's magazines is bullsh*t".

 

and speaking of, women who criticize men that settle are nothing more than jealous of the women those men do have. their 'perfect man is out there for me' fantasy is threatened every time a single man gets some woman that isn't her.

 

so there's your first bit of advice, stop worrying about what xyz woman thinks of you, because she thinks about herself about 10x as much as she does you or any other man, that much is guaranteed.

[fortyninethousand322]

yeah well men don't grow up with fathers anymore, they grow up with their mothers as single parents.

 

if their fathers were around they would be there to tell them "everything your mother just repeated to you from oprah and women's magazines is bullsh*t".

 

and speaking of, women who criticize men that settle are nothing more than jealous of the women those men do have. their 'perfect man is out there for me' fantasy is threatened every time a single man gets some woman that isn't her.

 

so there's your first bit of advice, stop worrying about what xyz woman thinks of you, because she thinks about herself about 10x as much as she does you or any other man, that much is guaranteed.

 

Eh, my parents are still together (although they really shouldn't be, they hate each other's guts). I think the problem is that my father has a very passive personality so a) he had a hard time getting dates when he was single (which explains why he never gave me any advice about women...he just doesn't have any) and b) he tends to avoid a lot of advice/confrontational stuff.

[monkey00]

yeah well men don't grow up with fathers anymore, they grow up with their mothers as single parents.

 

if their fathers were around they would be there to tell them "everything your mother just repeated to you from oprah and women's magazines is bullsh*t".

 

and speaking of, women who criticize men that settle are nothing more than jealous of the women those men do have. their 'perfect man is out there for me' fantasy is threatened every time a single man gets some woman that isn't her.

 

so there's your first bit of advice, stop worrying about what xyz woman thinks of you, because she thinks about herself about 10x as much as she does you or any other man, that much is guaranteed.

 

That's the way it is these days, I have two friends that grew up as an only child without fathers. One of them does ok with women, the other is horrible about it and only attracts women as friends.

 

But anyway I think the chase or dating is a lot easier than maintaining a relationship and keeping it interesting over the years - that's where the true challenge lies.

[jobaba]

I'm going to give this to you the only way I know how: some men have it from birth to attract women and get laid without having to do much, while others will always struggle and never have what it takes.

 

While the bolded is true, and I will certainly never be close to that, I disagree that it's so cut and dry into two categories of winners and losers.

 

You can maximize your potential and you will get as many women as the effort you put in and the amount of numbers you play.

 

I can say without reservation that if I sat on my a@@, being passive with women, just being myself and waiting for the right woman to enter my life so we could fall into a relationship mutually and naturally, I'd be a mid-30s virgin who has never been in a relationship. I can say that unequivocally...

 

Instead, I try to be as social as possible, workout as often as I can, am always looking for ways to change and improve myself and am always trying to be more aggressive when it comes to approaching women.

 

As a result, I've gotten some sex and have had a few relationships. All of which I have had to work for in different ways. Yea, the world is tough for some. You gotta be tougher or go crawl in a corner and die. Either way...

[thatone]

That's the way it is these days, I have two friends that grew up as an only child without fathers. One of them does ok with women, the other is horrible about it and only attracts women as friends.

 

But anyway I think the chase or dating is a lot easier than maintaining a relationship and keeping it interesting over the years - that's where the true challenge lies.

 

indeed it is. so why not just stick with the chase? how many women have you gotten that looking back on it, were worthy of 'maintaining a relationship' with? how many of them put the same amount of effort into doing so as you did? i'm betting none or very few.

 

when i didn't care about women in my younger years i had more women interested in me. when i got closer to 30 and had the idea of 'settling down' and 'finding relationships' i got nothing but grief for it. now that i'm 35 the lightbulb has gone off. 90% of the women you meet either don't know what they want or if they do, will lie about it (even to themselves). so why care?

[jobaba]

1. My last two dates I've met online. My profile picture is very accurate (I hate it when other people lie in their pictures so I don't do it in mine). I exchanged about 4 messages with the first one before we met plus we instant messaged a bit. There was a little less pre-communication with the second girl, but she actually contacted me first.

 

2. The only thing I think I'm holding back is just what I said - making sure I don't appear supplicative or overeager (and I'm not really a supplicative person anyway, so that's not much of an issue). Other than that I think I'm pretty much myself. I don't really say or do anything too out of the ordinary.

 

3. Probably about 50/50 on an average date.

 

4. The conversations were flowing pretty well and we shared some laughs. There were only a couple of moments where one of us had to ask a question to "restart" the conversation.

 

5. Honestly, I'm not sure. I tend to date women who are well-educated and aren't "woo girls." Other than that, I don't think they really follow a pattern. I think both of my last two dates were both ex-hard-partiers (which I never really was), so there you are.

 

See, that's the thing. I don't know if I'm doing anything to turn them off - I think it's more that I'm doing nothing to turn them on. Know what I mean?

 

It's impossible to tell without hearing the nitty gritty dirty details of the date. I've been on a decent amount of dates, a lot of which have been one and done.

 

Some of them are from over 10 years ago when my game was much weaker. If I could on those same dates today, I'd say I could be successful on about 25 to 33% of them (defined as physical action or more additional dates).

 

I remember for one of the dates, I was smoking a cigarette in the car with the woman as we drove to find a place and she was a prude non smoker who barely drank. Automatic loss.

 

I suggest you find an older friend who has done some dating (someone in his 30s) and run down the details of your date. He may be able to tell you where you went wrong if at all...

[thatone]

Eh, my parents are still together (although they really shouldn't be, they hate each other's guts). I think the problem is that my father has a very passive personality so a) he had a hard time getting dates when he was single (which explains why he never gave me any advice about women...he just doesn't have any) and b) he tends to avoid a lot of advice/confrontational stuff.

 

that's your choices, welcome to real life.

 

settle for the first person who'll settle for you if you hate the chase. end up with a boring resentful marriage that stays together for the kid you've made with a woman you don't even like.

 

or learn to like the chase to avoid the marriage. if you run across better than the run of the mill self absorbed crazy type, adjust the game accordingly to give a relationship a shot, but don't get your hopes up.

 

or become a priest.