jobaba Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 (edited) For Record Producer... http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/ng.shtml ''Nice guys". It is the most overused term in the romance world. Everybody has a different definition of it. What Verzhn was trying to describe is a guy who 'pretends to be nice' in order to get into your pants and gain experience only to dump you for the next best thing to come along. I wouldn't really call that a nice guy situation. That's more dating inequality. Verzhn is upset because she's really into this guy and he's not but leading her on. Yea, that's wrong of him, but she also needs to toughen up and be less vulnerable. Another definition is a sexually inexperienced man who may be timid and outwardly courteous. He might not try and make a move on you even though he was attracted to you from the start. So he seems nice. Basically, a guy who is too afraid to make a move so he becomes your friend in a endless guise while his only M.O. is really to f@ck you. That is what a lot of women consider a wolf in 'nice guys' clothing. 'Nice guy' can also mean doormat. Which I used to be. The biggest. Overly courteous. Always trying to give you stuff and buy you stuff and ask if you're OK. A wuss. Will hang around you after you've rejected him in the divine hope that you'll change your mind. My own definition of 'nice guy' is taken outside the context of dating. You just know certain guys from your life who are nice guys. They'll offer to go halfsies on a bill that you insisted on paying full. They're nice and cordial to other men and older women. They listen to other people when they are talking and are interested in what you have to say. Etc... Edited December 17, 2011 by jobaba
verhrzn Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 There are nice guys, and there are "nice guys." Here are some links that describe the phenomenon I was referring to in full: http://divalion.livejournal.com/163615.html http://mightygodking.com/index.php/2007/12/16/the-internet-nice-guy-rears-his-ugly-head-once-more/ http://www.doctornerdlove.com/2011/08/mr-nice-guy/
Cracker Jack Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Ha, I remember reading the various stories from that site some time ago. I think most people (especially here) see the self proclaimed "nice guys" as doormats, and see the nice guys as good people. I used to constantly call myself a "nice guy" and believe that was why I sucked with women...till I realized how lame that was. There are many different definitions to nice guy, as you mentioned, but I'd rather be looked at as a good man instead. I just hate the nice guy term.
GoodOnPaper Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Another definition is a sexually inexperienced man who may be timid and outwardly courteous. This is a good catch-all definition that can lead to any number of "nice guy" tendencies, some of which you specified, and many that I'm familiar with from personal experience. The doormat thing is pretty ugly, but it just took a couple of mini-relationship experiences to knock some sense into me about that. The "being friends" thing really threw me for a loop. In high school, I was friendzoned all the time -- in many cases, I would do the right thing and ask a girl out at an appropriately early stage and she would immediately counter with "I just want to be friends". This really confused me because we didn't know each other well enough to be true friends. If I wanted to invest the time and energy to get to know her with friendship as the goal, I wouldn't have asked her out to begin with. However, I didn't want to seem like a douchebag so I would go along with it for awhile but the "friendship" would inevitably fade. Had I figured out that "wanting to be friends" probably meant "wanting to be friendly", I would have saved myself a lot grief and anxiety. What's really frustrating is when certain qualities enable you to excel in some important areas of life but seem to work against you when it comes to attraction and dating. I don't know if I will ever reconcile that . . .
Dust Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 I always think of the self apointed nice guy. You know the guy who may be a low life degenerate but labels any guy who gets girls an a-hole and labels himself a nice guy and claims thats the reason he can't get girls when he in fact doesn't even ask out girls...
ChessPieceFace Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 You're right that it's an incorrect term, at least. I don't think you grasp what's actually going on though. Which is weird to me, since it's really such a simple thing. There are guys who act like animals, and guys who set a higher standard of behavior. The higher standard guys are the "nice guys." Women go for the worst qualities in men because it's in their genome to do so, that's why the animal-men succeed and the evolved men fail. Being evolved is not directly related to the selfless things you mention. "Evolved" might be a more accurate term, but really, who !%@$ing cares.
El Brujo Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 There are nice guys---or more accurately, NiceGuys ---who are just clingy, spineless, wimps-at-heart who try to be as manipulative as some of the evil types of women, but they aren't very good at it and it shows. I consider myself a decent guy, but not a nice guy---even though when my late mother was still alive, she floored me by telling me I was a "pretty nice guy" when I was about 35 or so (how many guys ever hear THAT from dear old Mom?). Some other guy once told me I'm "nobody's bitch" because I'm not afraid of spilling my guts to tell the truth... yeah, sometimes it ain't easy, but I've been keeping my s. together since I ended up alone, and with the house. My take on http://www.heartless-bitches.com/ran...eguys/ng.shtml is that these women either have unrealistic expectations, have been abused, or are probably just closet lesbians in denial; OTOH my take on http://www.the-niceguy.com/forum/index.php is that they're mostly frustrated wimps who have no ambition.
somedude81 Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Another definition is a sexually inexperienced man who may be timid and outwardly courteous. He might not try and make a move on you even though he was attracted to you from the start. So he seems nice. Basically, a guy who is too afraid to make a move so he becomes your friend in a endless guise while his only M.O. is really to f@ck you. That is what a lot of women consider a wolf in 'nice guys' clothing. That's very similar to what I am. Though in almost all cases, I like the girl and do consider her a friend. But being able to date her is worth more than any friendship. The main reason why I have problems making moves is because I'm inexperienced and I am very afraid of getting rejected. Also, trying to make moves on a friend usually ends the friendship. If I feel that I have almost no chance then I try to put it off till I can't help it anymore. Regardless, I'm simply done with trying to be friends with girls I'm interested in. It's nothing but prolonged pain for me. I need to make my intentions known quickly and get the hell out of there when I'm rejected. It's going to suck not having any female friends but it's better than spending time with somebody who is not interested.
grkBoy Posted December 18, 2011 Posted December 18, 2011 I think any guy who seriously wants to be a gentleman and "good guy" should not give up their dignity or integrity to get a girl. There are some "nice guys" who are just good men that women look down on because those women think masculinity means meaning a jerk. Then there are some "nice guys" who seriously can't walk up to or talk to a woman. They also might have no sense of style and not much confidence...thus they think their being "nice" is why they get rejected...but fail to look at their social shortcomings. Likewise, there are women who simply don't want to be with a "loser" or "doormat". They want a man who has a backbone, does things, has a life, etc. This has NOTHING to do with being "nice" or being a "jerk". It has to do with being able to hold a conversation, make decisions without asking if it's ok with her, and looking/carrying yourself like a man and not a "momma's boy". THEN there are women who seriously think being a jerk means you're a "real man". You guys need to be able to recognize these women and leave them be. They are "damaged goods", and no good man should waste their time with these crazy girls. These are the women who friendzone good men and keep sleeping with jerks...until they get knocked up.
Elysian Powder Posted December 18, 2011 Posted December 18, 2011 (edited) Want sex? Become a man; 10 Reasons Women (who aren't Heartless Bitches!) Date Jerks Instead of Nice Guys It's more fun to complain about them to her friends. Guys who actually like her just aren't challenging or exciting. When she does date nice guys, they turn into jerks anyway, so why not save time and go for the jerk in the first place? She won't get as emotionally attached to a jerk, so she'll be more in control. All the other women want them, so they must be worth having. Affection means more when it comes from a guy who doesn't normally give it. Guaranteed to cheat on her so someone else can endure his lack of lovemaking skills most of the time. No need to feel guilty for abusing or deceiving them. Jerks will actually tell her when they don't like what she's doing instead of getting mad about it six months later. She was looking for someone she can't trust, and won't care about too much, who will abuse her mentally and financially, but she didn't know any lawyers. homogeneous for jerk, homogeneous for interesting 6.25% These are the REAL MEN. Most attractive to women, highly successful in life. Frequently have careers they can't talk about, and incidents they won't admit to. Always one steps ahead of the law and past lovers. Rarely marry, unless in politics, but frequently leave children behind to be raised by lesser males. Edited December 18, 2011 by Elysian Powder
Wolf18 Posted December 18, 2011 Posted December 18, 2011 I wonder if there is something to that, affection means more to women when it's coming from someone who never gives it? I come from a family of high achievers. My cousin's going to Harvard to study law, my other cousin is going to be a practicing pediatrician next year (all on a a half scholarship) , and me...well I've always been the black sheep. Throughout high school I would drink beer with my friends, get into trouble, experiment with drugs, got mediocre grades, chase skirt, etc. So when I took the state Math test all my professors were whining that I would fail because I was always cutting class and instead got a B on it, my mom and dad were acting like I had cured cancer, gave me a welcome home like I had just served my country! Meanwhile my cousins all took the same math test and got A's, nobody gave a ****. It's awesome. When you set the bar low, when people exceed that low bar it has a profound psychological affect. When a person is consistently successful, you expect it and don't care. I think women set the bar low for a lot of men, while ignoring or being underwhelmed by the consistent and reliable ones who may not be as "hot" or wealthy.
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