Concubines - Serious Question

[TheSingleGuy]

More of a comment, really. I'm honestly starting to believe that all women are instinctively, or genetically, programmed to be members of concubines.

 

---And before we go any further, NO, I do not expect a single female to come on here and agree with me and my little theory---

 

But seriously, there is a LOT of EVIDENCE to support this. I'm going to give a few examples, but I could go on and on with more. These are just a few:

 

Number one: Myself. I have been divorced for almost 5 full years now. At the time of my divorce, I was horrible with women. If there was one mistake I could point to, it was probably that I over pursed women too early and then when I was around them, they'd sense that their approval of me was of high importance to me. I've since figured out that both of those mistakes are unattractive to women. Now days, the real reason I don't over pursue women is because I'm too busy with other women. A guy who is seeing another woman (or more) is the guy who is naturally going to pursue women the way they want it. A guy who has no women is naturally going to "over pursue". After 5 years of dating, I'm much, much better with women. Why would women be more attracted to a guy with lots of "experience" if they're not really, at least on some level, attracted to the idea of a concubine? The guy with a harem has way more experience with women than the single, desperate guy who can't get a girlfriend.

 

Number two: My best friend was trapped several years ago by the baby's momma. At the time that she trapped him, she was the "Tuesday Girl". He called her that. She complied with that. She only came over to see him on Tuesdays. Who knows what she "thought" he was doing the other six days of the week, but I know that during that time, he had off and on Wednesday girls and Monday girls, etc. Seriously, if your label is "Tuesday Girl" what do you think he's doing the other six nights? Now, if you were to ask that very same woman today "Would you ever subject yourself to such an arrangement?" I GUARANTEE she would say "hell no". No self respecting woman would ever agree to such an arrangement, but you see it all the time. It's very common for single women to find themselves sleeping with and in love with married men. Why is that?

 

Number three: The out of town guy. Why is it that the out of town guy gets laid but the guy who lives in the same town doesn't? I can tell you right now, well over half of the women I've successfully seduced since the divorce were women I met while I was out of town. Many of these women I've remained in contact with and these women will all still see me and sleep with me if I pursue them. Essentially, these women are members of my own little concubine (although I'd never mention that term around them).

 

Number four: My ex-girlfriend told me several times about her experience with a dot com dating site. She went on three dates. The first guy was local, he lied about his height and she ditched him immediately. The other two were both from other cities, far away, and she slept with both of them on the first date. She actually remained in contact with one of the men while were dating (which is one of the primary reasons I dumped her). Again, what are the women expecting when they put out for the out of town guy? Seriously? Do women who sleep with the out of town guy honestly expect anything more than concubine membership?

 

Number five: Another ex-girlfriend. She's a really sweet girl, brought up in church, went to christian school. But she had a "friend" she was seeing before she met me. This guy would have her come over to his apartment and go in his bedroom with him and have sex him... while his live-in girlfriend was in the next room. Both girls knew he was sleeping with the other girl. I'd say that's concrete evidence that women are ok with being members of concubines.

 

Number six: Even in the Bible, there are stories of men who had enormous concubines. I've heard that one guy had 1,000 women in his concubine. How could that happen if women weren't instinctively programmed to be members of concubines in the first place?

 

Like I say, I could go on and on with more examples. But you get the picture.

Edited December 16, 2011 by TheSingleGuy

[dasein]

Your OP is definitely true IME. They hate being characterized that way, will rationalize around it, won't admit it, and that explains the out of town phenomenon. You see they don't mind being in a harem with one sheik/rooster, but they also don't like having it put in their face, because of the way (completely warranted) that it makes them feel about themselves and their sexual choices/behavior. So they will leap at the chance to get with a guy whose harem isn't going to be in plain view in her social circle.

 

It explains the etymology of the term "friend with benefits," much preferable to "guy I can never get who sleeps with lots of other women, but who is willing to include me in his sex rotation." "FWB" is a much more forgiving rationalization than "MOH" (member of harem).

 

The given reality is that women have sex more than they will ever let on. Multiply any "numbers" they give you by a multiple of 3-10 to get the true number. Guys today need to get real comfortable with this or join monasteries, the exceptions, the non impulsive non SATC harlots are a vanishing breed, like going out in the backyard and expecting to see a bald eagle.

 

How does the average guy elevate himself to be the POH (possessor of harem)? The most surefire way is pure volume of approach to build many options and watch the snowball happen as he starts to exude the POH aura that makes most women wet and easy, but this is also the most time-consuming for truly average men. Alternatively he can cultivate female "wingwomen," in a mutual backscratching arrangement, get good at seduction (what I chose), become a perfect physical specimen, etc. Lots of ways to skin a cat or a p-ssy as the case may be.

[FitChick]

The OP doesn't know the difference between a harem and a concubine. Not surprising since he has such an intelligent theory about women.

 

The reason some women and men will sleep with someone out of town is because it is no strings sex. The other person won't be bugging them or dropping by unexpectedly.

[dasein]

Regardless of the correctness of his usage, his anecdotal experience matches mine and my friends' to a "t." So save the rolleyes unless you have some substative counter to what he says. Many women seek out and chase top % men to the exclusion of others more on their level, and are completely willing to share those men so long as the sharing isn't put right in their face. It is the origin of the term "FWB." As much as women howl about men only wanting skinny supermodels, women are actually the primary starf-ckers of the world.

 

Or rather, how many male groupies do you see running around throwing their sex at female celebrities and the rich and powerful the way women do? How many men do you see passing out and screaming in phantasmic ecstasy at music shows or wherever they see their favorite female sex icons? How many adult men do you see lining up wet and dripping to see Angelina Jolie movies the way adult women line up for Twilight? Who is the target of all those celeb mags at the grocery, men or women?

Edited December 18, 2011 by dasein

[Nexus One]

The OP doesn't know the difference between a harem and a concubine. Not surprising since he has such an intelligent theory about women.

 

A concubine can be part of a harem.

 

Anyways I don't think it's true that women are meant to be concubines, as there is a shortage of women on the planet. For every 105 men 100 women are born, the scale only tips at old age. Personally I think it would be unfair to let a woman share a man. I wouldn't want to share a woman with another man, similarly I think most women don't want that either.

Edited December 18, 2011 by Nexus One

[TheSingleGuy]

Ok, let me focus more on the latest ex-girlfriend (of mine), the one who would go over and have sex with a guy while his live-in girlfriend was in the next room.

 

This girl is really cute, she's a waitress at the restaurant where we met.

 

There is a guy who comes in there all the time...a "regular". He's the nicest guy on the planet. Any woman who meets this guy can immediately spot that this guy is a lonely man with no women in his life. It's just obvious, and not because he's bad looking. It's just something you'd pick up on within meeting this guy initially, something that most men might pick up on, but certainly all women definitely will.

 

Now this guy isn't the only guy my ex-girlfriend would come across in her life who is single and lonely. Guys like that are EVERYWHERE.

 

This girl maintained her virginity until she was 22. It's not like she's out sleeping with a different man every week.

 

But one of the few men that she does sleep with in her 4 years of sexual activity is this creepy, sleazy guy who f***'s her with his live-in girlfriend in the next room.

 

My ex-girlfriend could have gotten this nice guy, regular customer into the sack if she had wanted to. And, as I said earlier, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of other guys who she could have done this with as well. But, of the very few number of men she's been sexually involved with, she chooses to give it up to this creepy, sleazy douche-bag of a man.

 

How many women would say, yes, I'd sleep with a guy while his girlfriend was in the next room? How many would say that?

 

I've read it repeatedly on the seductions sights and forums, what women say they want and what they respond to are totally different. I think this absolutely proves them correct.

 

Last night, I read the book of Genesis from beginning to end. There's a story in there about a man named Abram, who has a wife named Sarai. Sarai was unable to have a baby, so she told Abram to sleep with her female servant. So he did. Later in the story, it goes on to mention at least one concubine that Abram had as well. There may have been others, but at least one was mentioned. And God blessed Abram. So it's not like the Bible was telling this story to say "see what happens when you sin"? God blessed this guy. And then, the Book of Genesis goes on to tell stories of Abram's son and grandson, Isaac and Jacob, who both had multiple wives and concubines, and these men were also blessed by God.

 

Now, it only stands to reason that these men, who were blessed by God, either first married and then took on the concubines or the concubines were in place when they met their wives. Either way, these guy were running "game" on other women, and the women who were already sleeping with them were ok with it.

 

So, yeah, I am extremely confused because mom and grandma and every other woman on this entire planet would say that definitely, a guy with two or more wives or girlfriends is a sleazy douche bag. But the evidence does not support that this is, in fact, how women really feel and respond.

[KathyM]

You can't make generalizations about all women like that. There is a wide range of attitudes among women when it comes to sex. Some women believe sex is more than a physical act, and would never want to engage in it with someone they weren't in love with or at least exclusive with. Some women think it's just a physical act and give it away freely to anyone they are attracted to. Some don't even have to be attracted, but give it away for other reasons. Then there is a whole range in between. Women are not programmed to be concubines. Some women just are willing to accept scraps from men, and seem to think that any amount of attention is better than no attention. There are a lot of women who don't hold men to a higher standard, and that is why men are able to use these women as concubines. But not all women will allow themselves to be used in that way. Many women expect to be monogamous while in a relationship--probably a greater percentage than those that don't.

[dasein]

You can't make generalizations about all women like that.

 

No one did, in fact, once women make the switch from "have my fun" to "sell my wares to provider man" they make an about face and don't want to share "provider man" with other women. Like many other thoroughly inconsistent female modes of being, whether they are in "share the stud" mode or "polish the golden egg provider" mode shifts like the sands. A large portion of them will continue with "fun types" behind provider man's back depending on what they think they can get away with.

 

It's almost impossible to "generalize" creatures that, unlike every other member of the animal kingdom, are so thoroughly inconsistent in their behavior from one moment to the next, other than generalizing the tendency towards inconsistency.

Edited December 19, 2011 by dasein

[PlumPrincess]

Ok, let me focus more on the latest ex-girlfriend (of mine), the one who would go over and have sex with a guy while his live-in girlfriend was in the next room.

 

This girl is really cute, she's a waitress at the restaurant where we met.

 

There is a guy who comes in there all the time...a "regular". He's the nicest guy on the planet. Any woman who meets this guy can immediately spot that this guy is a lonely man with no women in his life. It's just obvious, and not because he's bad looking. It's just something you'd pick up on within meeting this guy initially, something that most men might pick up on, but certainly all women definitely will.

 

Now this guy isn't the only guy my ex-girlfriend would come across in her life who is single and lonely. Guys like that are EVERYWHERE.

 

This girl maintained her virginity until she was 22. It's not like she's out sleeping with a different man every week.

 

But one of the few men that she does sleep with in her 4 years of sexual activity is this creepy, sleazy guy who f***'s her with his live-in girlfriend in the next room.

 

My ex-girlfriend could have gotten this nice guy, regular customer into the sack if she had wanted to. And, as I said earlier, there are dozens, if not hundreds, of other guys who she could have done this with as well. But, of the very few number of men she's been sexually involved with, she chooses to give it up to this creepy, sleazy douche-bag of a man.

 

How many women would say, yes, I'd sleep with a guy while his girlfriend was in the next room? How many would say that?

 

I've read it repeatedly on the seductions sights and forums, what women say they want and what they respond to are totally different. I think this absolutely proves them correct.

 

Last night, I read the book of Genesis from beginning to end. There's a story in there about a man named Abram, who has a wife named Sarai. Sarai was unable to have a baby, so she told Abram to sleep with her female servant. So he did. Later in the story, it goes on to mention at least one concubine that Abram had as well. There may have been others, but at least one was mentioned. And God blessed Abram. So it's not like the Bible was telling this story to say "see what happens when you sin"? God blessed this guy. And then, the Book of Genesis goes on to tell stories of Abram's son and grandson, Isaac and Jacob, who both had multiple wives and concubines, and these men were also blessed by God.

 

Now, it only stands to reason that these men, who were blessed by God, either first married and then took on the concubines or the concubines were in place when they met their wives. Either way, these guy were running "game" on other women, and the women who were already sleeping with them were ok with it.

 

So, yeah, I am extremely confused because mom and grandma and every other woman on this entire planet would say that definitely, a guy with two or more wives or girlfriends is a sleazy douche bag. But the evidence does not support that this is, in fact, how women really feel and respond.

So, with how many men are your mother and your grandmother sleeping with at the moment?

[KathyM]

No one did, in fact, once women make the switch from "have my fun" to "sell my wares to provider man" they make an about face and don't want to share "provider man" with other women. Like many other thoroughly inconsistent female modes of being, whether they are in "share the stud" mode or "polish the golden egg provider" mode shifts like the sands. A large portion of them will continue with "fun types" behind provider man's back depending on what they think they can get away with.

 

It's almost impossible to "generalize" creatures that, unlike every other member of the animal kingdom, are so thoroughly inconsistent in their behavior from one moment to the next, other than generalizing the tendency towards inconsistency.

The generalization was that all women are programmed to be concubines. Plenty of women out there that won't accept that type of arrangement--sharing a man with someone else. Plenty of women out there who are monogamous with their SO, and expect their SO to be the same. Some women are inconsistent in their attitude towards monogamy. Some, if not most, are not.

[TheSingleGuy]

KathyM,

 

I had drinks with a male friend of mine the other night. He met this really hot woman at the grocery story, hit it off with her and asked for her number. He said it was a Friday, he didn't have anything going on that night, so about three hours after meeting her and getting her number, he figured "what the heck?" He called, it went to voice mail and he left a message, asking her to call him back. Then, he immediately sent a polite text message to her to say it was really nice meeting you today.

 

She never responded to him. She blew him off.

 

(You already knew that was coming after reading the first paragraph, didn't you?)

 

I've been there and done that many times myself.

 

Most women will read that story and easily see that he made a mistake by calling too early. Truth is, he had nothing going on that night and wanted some company. He was, in fact, a lonely, single guy who hadn't been on a date in some time.

 

So...let's assume he did have a date that night with someone, and a date the following day with another woman. Would he have initiated contact with her just 3 hours after getting her number if he had been that busy with other women? I would say, and I speak from experience, almost no chance.

 

Women are inclined to read very much into the slightest bit of detail. The detail of him calling just a few hours after he got her phone number was a major clue that he is single and lonely.

 

But somehow, for whatever reason, women are repulsed by the lonely, single guy. It makes no sense. They'll sleep with men who already have girlfriends, the out of town guy who has but a very minute chance of turning into an exclusive relationship, and the married man, but they won't sleep with men who are lonely and single and actually interested in having a girlfriend.

 

That is just how the attraction switch in a woman's brain is wired. There is so much evidence for this, it's actually amazing. And this is concrete evidence that the seduction forums are right...what women say they want and what they respond to are two very different things.

 

So, yes, of course, you're going to say that not all women are this way. (At least you, being female, will admit that some are this way.) Truth is, you are probably this way too, and that is why you are writing, to inform us that "not all women are this way" because somehow, you've convinced yourself that you not this way either. You won't admit that you, yourself, are more attracted to men who already have women and are unavailable for an exclusive relationship. I'm convinced that all women are, for a fact, wired this way.

[ThaWholigan]

Lot of talk about "The Lonely Single Guy". We all know how well this character goes down .......

 

I get the frustration. I am basically the character from your story sitting in the coffee shop. Except that I broke out of this loop of being lonely and feeling sorry for myself. I realized that I actually had a massive network of people I could be around, skills to develop and a whole host of self-improvement to get through.

 

I do believe that women are repulsed by these kinds of guys in terms of attraction, but we have it in us to stop being that guy. As much as I feel sympathy, we need to stop allowing ourselves to be cynical all the time.

[PlumPrincess]

Since when are single, lonely women attractive?

[Woggle]

I never got hit on as much as when I used to hang out with a lesbian friend who was also attractive. One time we were out eating together and while she got up to go to the bathroom the waitress slipped me her phone number. This never happened to me while I was out alone or with other guys.

[ThaWholigan]

Since when are single, lonely women attractive?

 

^^^^^^^^

Someone always does this

 

Jokes aside, there are women who are in positions similar to men, I've met those women too. The problem with these women is usually the same problem with men in their position. A lot of the time, they are fixable problems. Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder IMO, I've met girls that nobody else thought were hot except me. I'm known for taking a liking to some fat girls even .

 

Single lonely women can usually get a man if they open up a little and relax, much in the same way single lonely men can get a woman if they do the same. Both need to cultivate more attractive attributes, they can be done, I've known women who weren't pretty a long time ago then suddenly became super-beautiful, in terms of personality and looks. Some girls who were already good looking became even more beautiful when they opened up and relaxed, better personality, better aura, more interests, everything.

 

I never got hit on as much as when I used to hang out with a lesbian friend who was also attractive. One time we were out eating together and while she got up to go to the bathroom the waitress slipped me her phone number. This never happened to me while I was out alone or with other guys.

 

Whenever I am out with my girl-cousins, women always shoot me looks ALL THE TIME. The worst is when I am with my mum and people give her the evil eye, thinking I'm her toyboy. It's annoying

[Ruby Slippers]

I never got hit on as much as when I used to hang out with a lesbian friend who was also attractive. One time we were out eating together and while she got up to go to the bathroom the waitress slipped me her phone number. This never happened to me while I was out alone or with other guys.

Yeah, and when I have a boyfriend, I get way more come-ons from men than when I'm single -- especially when I'm out with my man. Does this mean all these men want to be in my man harem?

[Woggle]

Yeah, and when I have a boyfriend, I get way more come-ons from men than when I'm single -- especially when I'm out with my man. Does this mean all these men want to be in my man harem?

 

Some men do like to compete with other men but I don't think single women are treated as completely unattractive the way single men are.

[BetheButterfly]

Anyways I don't think it's true that women are meant to be concubines, as there is a shortage of women on the planet. For every 105 men 100 women are born, the scale only tips at old age. Personally I think it would be unfair to let a woman share a man. I wouldn't want to share a woman with another man, similarly I think most women don't want that either.

 

Agreed.

 

I love my husband very much and am grateful that he does not share me nor do I share him!

 

Intimate and exclusive relationships are meant to be that... intimate and exclusive!

[BetheButterfly]

 

Last night, I read the book of Genesis from beginning to end. There's a story in there about a man named Abram, who has a wife named Sarai. Sarai was unable to have a baby, so she told Abram to sleep with her female servant. So he did. Later in the story, it goes on to mention at least one concubine that Abram had as well. There may have been others, but at least one was mentioned. And God blessed Abram. So it's not like the Bible was telling this story to say "see what happens when you sin"? God blessed this guy. And then, the Book of Genesis goes on to tell stories of Abram's son and grandson, Isaac and Jacob, who both had multiple wives and concubines, and these men were also blessed by God.

 

Now, it only stands to reason that these men, who were blessed by God, either first married and then took on the concubines or the concubines were in place when they met their wives. Either way, these guy were running "game" on other women, and the women who were already sleeping with them were ok with it.

 

 

Just curious about what you think about the account in Genesis where God made Eve (one lady) for Adam? God didn't make a harem for Adam. Rather, He made one woman for one man. That means something to many people who believe that the Tanakh or Bible is true.

 

Concerning Abraham, Sarah repented of her decision after she gave birth to Isaac, and sad to say, treated Hagar and Ishmael in a not very nice manner. This is very typical of homes where there are multiple women... they don't tend to get along all that well and jealousy and hurt feelings are extremely common.

 

Is that the ideal you think God wants for people? I don't think so. Peace and kindness and goodness and love and faithfulness are what God wants from people, and a husband and wife raising a family without cowives (or cohusbands) makes a more peaceful home in most cases than households with multiple moms/dads.

 

For other cases where you see hurt feelings in polygamous cases, see Rachel and Leah's story and Hannah (Samuel's Mom)'s story.

 

Most Jewish men do not marry more than one woman because they understand that it does not help the peace in the home. Also, many people who believe in God believe that both men and women are equal yet different and both are to be faithful to each other in a committed relationship where they are responsible before God for their promise. Though no marriage is perfect, most people who believe in God do see marriage as the ideal that God created (though marriage does not need to be a marriage certificate/paper given by the government!)

 

The practice of concubines/harems has long been recognized as a derogatory unequal status many women have suffered, and most women who can think rationally would prefer to be in a relationship with a wonderful man who loved her than be one in a million of sexual objects to be used whenever so and so desires.

 

So, if you read Genesis again, please pay careful attention to Genesis 2, as well as later on in the historic accounts, the suffering women endured as a result of men marrying or taking many wives/concubines.

 

Genesis 2 (NIV)

But for Adam[f] no suitable helper was found. 21 So the LORD God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs[g] and then closed up the place with flesh. 22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib[h] he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. 23 The man said,

“This is now bone of my bones

and flesh of my flesh;

she shall be called ‘woman,’

for she was taken out of man.”

24 That is why a man leaves his father and mother and is united to his wife, and they become one flesh.

25 Adam and his wife were both naked, and they felt no shame:"

[Negative Nancy]

Or rather, how many male groupies do you see running around throwing their sex at female celebrities and the rich and powerful the way women do? How many men do you see passing out and screaming in phantasmic ecstasy at music shows or wherever they see their favorite female sex icons? How many adult men do you see lining up wet and dripping to see Angelina Jolie movies the way adult women line up for Twilight? Who is the target of all those celeb mags at the grocery, men or women?

 

how many female groupies do you see running around drooling over male porn stars and the pretty and sexy the way men do? How many women do you see growling and cheering in phantasmic ecstasy at strip shows or wherever they see their favorite male porn star? How many adult women do you see lining up hard and horny to see Rocco Siffredi movies the way adult men line up for a Jenna Jameson movie at an AVN show? Who is the target of all those stuff, fhm and playboy mags at the grocery store, men or women?

 

Edited December 20, 2011 by Negative Nancy

[Woggle]

I take it nobody here has seen what happens at a male strip show. The women sometimes get rowdier than the men.

[dasein]

how many

 

Sorry, fail porn comparison is fail. Not even in the same galaxy as the way women throw themselves at top % wealthy men and celebrities.

[Stung]

Woggle, for one thing, there are not anywhere near as many strip clubs for women as there are for men. There's probably reason for that...if they were as popular and profitable, they'd be just as ubiquitous.

 

I for one have been to male strip clubs, yes. More often than you have, I'd wager, and in more than one country. It's been a few years, but in my personal experience, the clientele was generally at least 50% gay male, sometimes less or more--of course this varied somewhat by location. Also the female clientele were drunk and rowdy, but not in the highly-charged sexual way that strip clubs for men often are--these were women letting off steam, shrieking girlishly when the manparts got close, sometimes aroused but always at least half-embarrassed and usually treating it like a joke more than anything else. I did see some women touch the men, but they were usually being egged on by their friends--I was put very much in mind of children daring each other to do something gross and then shrieking in laughter when somebody desperate enough for attention or sheeplike enough to do as told actually DID the gross thing. In my experience, it was more silly, less sexy.

 

Then of course there's that new genre of web porn where they take porn shoots of male dancers getting BJs from the female audience and claim it's all real, but I hope that you're not falling for that. At least the one site I've seen that specializes in that was so heavily produced that trying to sell it as real was pretty laughable.

 

Anyway, as for the concubine theory--as usual it makes me a bit sad to see people who have such a hard time imagining that the female experience is really not all that far off from that of the male. Most of us women have encountered men who are in love with married women, or men who hit on women wearing wedding rings, or men who accept an FWB situation even though they're not sure it's the ideal situation for them. I'm well-acquainted with men who are into a cuckolding fetish, and men who like to share. We're all of us just part of the human condition. But, whatever. I for one am married and monogamous and would NOT be amused by the appearance of any concubines in my husband's life, but since the OP already said he doesn't expect women to agree with him, and he has already discounted the testimony of his own female family, I don't expect him to give my experience or opinion any weight.