For women who want to attract more men...

[Els]

Ok. So you're an Asian woman in New Zealand. First, NZ isn't halfway across the Earth from the U.S. Greece is way further than NZ from the U.S. You're right. You shouldn't be teaching geography lessons. You should be getting them.

 

Oh, you. I know you have a crush on me, but weeding through my posts? No, if you notice, I said the 'country I come from'. I haven't lived in NZ long enough to comment on the culture, and my classes here are too male-dominated for me to observe other women my age much. Nice try, though.

 

As a guy who has lived in and visited in parts of the U.S. and Canada with high Asian populations (sometimes the majority) I can say you're lying when you say Asian women spend so much time on their make-up it stops them from having hobbies.

 

Oh. So now women aren't all 'just interested in makeup and shopping'? Which is it?

 

Wait a minute. From past posts, you've admitted to spending little time on your body and dress shabbily. Are you telling me you spend 2-3 hours a day on appearance but still dress shabbily and look average-looking?

You, my friend, need to work on comprehension. Go and read my posts from the first one I made in this thread. Go on. It isn't that difficult, seeing as you have apparently read the posts I made in other threads. If you're going to be creepy and stalk, you might as well at least glean something from it.

 

Here's a hint:

1) It's difficult for a woman with a full-time job/studentship to balance spending time on her appearance and immersing herself in a hobby passionately.

2) I used to study full-time and game competitively so I did not have time to spend on my appearance then.

3) I am on holidays now so I can afford to do both.

4) Never have I mentioned that I spend 2-3 hours a day on appearance, not now and not before. Is it so difficult for you to draw a correlation from that to your post about your gf spending 18 hrs/week on hers, which I quoted right above what I said?

 

Sorry, no more hints. You'll need to work on those given, I'm afraid.

 

I admire your mathematics. But it's ridiculous to say women spend too much time on other activities that she doesn't have enough time to immerse herself in a hobby. You're basically saying women have little to no time to entertain themselves. That is false. Women have lots of time to entertain themselves. They have lots of time to immerse themselves in a hobby. They just choose to use their freetime on shallow pursuits like shopping, television, and gossiping.

 

I must be a man or a figment of your imagination, then. Hopefully the latter. You evaded my question before. What do you do with your free time, that you are so passionate about and is superior to shopping and TV? Can you play guitar like the girl in the video? Can you win several video and board games tournaments as I did? Can you publish a book as cerridwen did, or cook like RubySlippers does?

Edited December 16, 2011 by Elswyth

[Oxy Moronovich]

Oh. So now women aren't all 'just interested in makeup and shopping'? Which is it?

Women are interested in quick entertainment: shopping, makeup, television, and gossip. Those are all women are pretty much interested in. It's rare to find women with more interests.

 

You, my friend, need to work on comprehension. Go and read my posts from the first one I made in this thread. Go on. It isn't that difficult, seeing as you have apparently read the posts I made in other threads. If you're going to be creepy and stalk, you might as well at least glean something from it.

 

Here's a hint:

1) It's difficult for a woman with a full-time job/studentship to balance spending time on her appearance and immersing herself in a hobby passionately.

2) I used to study full-time and game competitively so I did not have time to spend on my appearance then.

3) I am on holidays now so I can afford to do both.

4) Never have I mentioned that I spend 2-3 hours a day on appearance, not now and not before. Is it so difficult for you to draw a correlation from that to your post about your gf spending 18 hrs/week on hers, which I quoted right above what I said?

 

You, young lady, need to learn how to formulate arguments thoughtfully. Since you're in college, perhaps you can take a debate class.

 

Did you not make this quote on pg. 3?

 

Also, the majority of 'average-looking' women do spend several hours a week on their appearance, FYI. 'Average' is relative - if 80% of females in your age group and demographic wear makeup, work out, and style their hair, doing so will not necessarily propel you above 'average'. 'Below average' would usually mean that the woman is overweight and such. Models generally go the extra mile and do stuff like plastic surgery and professional makeup artists.

Judging from your posts, you say you're average-looking (at best). Do you spend several hours of your time on appearances like the majority of average-looking women you speak of? Or do you spend less than several hours a week on appearance, which would mean you look below average? If you spend several hours a week then you're average-looking, yet you admit to still looking shabby.

 

 

 

I must be a man or a figment of your imagination, then. Hopefully the latter. You evaded my question before. What do you do with your free time, that you are so passionate about and is superior to shopping and TV? Can you play guitar like the girl in the video? Can you win several video and board games tournaments as I did? Can you publish a book as cerridwen did, or cook like RubySlippers does?

Would you like me to post the number of books in my bedroom alone? I am a bibliophile with over 500 books in my possession. I may not play guitar as well as the woman in the video, but I play guitar, ukulele, cycle, swim, and write. Those are my passions. If I wish to publish a book, there is always self-publishing with lulu. If I wish to play video and board games, there are many on the internet. And yes, I cook my own food.

 

You're assuming I said women generally don't do anything beside shallow pursuits. You forgot about my post on pg 2:

 

Thing is, women don't have any passion for anything aside from clothes, shopping, and make-up. Like I've said before, many women will start a hobby only to meet guys. Or they'll start a hobby only because it's the latest fad. Or they'll start it with genuine interest in learning it, but they'll lose interest quickly then drop it and move onto some new interest. Women never seem to immerse themselves in anything.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Oxy Moronovich

[somedude81]

And if a girl claims she likes a man's hobbies, then she better PROVE IT or else she's a poser, how dare she even TRY to be non-shallow.

 

Ya know, I run into this attitude all the freaking time in nerd cycles. Somedude claims that all you need to be is female and like "male" things.... Except whenever I offer up that I like stereotypically male hobbies (like video games, martial arts, comic books) then all of a sudden I must prove it. I must show that my knowledge and my passion is equal to every male nerd around me, or else I'm "not a real nerd."

 

The result? I get tired of defending myself and trying to prove myself, over and over, and I walk away. Because ya know what, I DON'T know off the top of my head what issue of the Batman comics Dick Grayson first appeared in, or what was Lord Fay's oldest son's name, or that I don't have a Platinum achievement in Skyrim yet. These things are my hobbies, but I'm not OBSESSIVE about them. So eventually, I just have to admit defeat.

 

And then those very same guys complain about how women are so very rarely interested in "male" hobbies.

Sounds like the guys you've talked to have zero social skills. It's retarded trying to make hobbies and interests into a competition.

 

I love it when I hear a girl is into something that I am, it makes for real easy conversation. I don't try to prove that I'm better at it/know more than she does. I'm just happy to hear what she thinks about the game/show etc. I still remember being really surprised when I found out that D was playing Dragon Age back when it was new. It just made me feel closer to her because it meant we had similar interests. We talked about character builds, the story and our first experiences with the Broodmother:love:, it wasn't about trying to one up each other.

 

The guys you know are like that? And they still manged to get wives/girlfriends? I think I'm living in the wrong part of the country.

And don't forget what a money sink "beauty" actually is.

 

For example, this month I bought some average perfume, a decent pair of pants that actually look good on me, and two nice shirts from Express. (Good quality, nice fit.) Total: about $225 ($30 perfume, $120 jeans, $75ish for shirts.) And that's only the beauty stuff I remember off the top of my head.

 

Now, if PS3 games are $60 a pop, how many PS3 games could I have bought? And how much time would I have had to play those games if I wasn't looking for just the right fit to make my butt look like it existed? (Driving to the mall, walking to the stores, and trying things on is probably about 3-4 hours all told.)

 

So if men want women who obsess over hobbies like they do... then they're going to have to let the standards slide somewhere else.

Damn, $225 on a couple items of clothes!?

 

First of all I don't like perfume. Dead flowers isn't a scent that men are drawn to. Try something like bacon or cookies if you want to make an impression. I'm only halfway joking.

 

Why spend $75 on a shirt? What's wrong with stuff from Macy's or Penny's? A decent looking shirt shouldn't cost that much.

 

Though jeans for women does matter and a good fit is important. Men are going to be looking at your ass every chance they can get and jeans quality does make a difference. Still $120 seems awfully expensive.

 

I really wish I could have gone jeans shopping with D. She had amazing breasts and looked good in any shirt she wore, even basic printed T's but she had the basic flatish white girl ass and her jeans were always ill-fitted.

[jobaba]

Damn, $225 on a couple items of clothes!?

 

Why spend $75 on a shirt? What's wrong with stuff from Macy's or Penny's? A decent looking shirt shouldn't cost that much.

 

Though jeans for women does matter and a good fit is important. Men are going to be looking at your ass every chance they can get and jeans quality does make a difference. Still $120 seems awfully expensive.

 

I really wish I could have gone jeans shopping with D. She had amazing breasts and looked good in any shirt she wore, even basic printed T's but she had the basic flatish white girl ass and her jeans were always ill-fitted.

 

Macys is not that cheap. Although they have more sales than the independent designer stores.

 

I believe the clothes make the man. So, if you aren't willing to spend a certain amount of $, at least dress yourself in the style, personality and aura you want to exhibit. For me, it would be contemporary urban style though toned down...

[Els]

You, young lady, need to learn how to formulate arguments thoughtfully. Since you're in college, perhaps you can take a debate class.

 

My arguments are just fine. It is you who refuses to believe that 'your experience with women' does not qualify as 'proof' that 'women are this way or that'. I did indeed participate in debates in HS (school level, no biggies), and even at such a level, making such baseless generalizations as you are would be pretty much opening yourself up to easy rebuttal.

 

Did you not make this quote on pg. 3?

 

 

Judging from your posts, you say you're average-looking (at best). Do you spend several hours of your time on appearances like the majority of average-looking women you speak of? Or do you spend less than several hours a week on appearance, which would mean you look below average? If you spend several hours a week then you're average-looking, yet you admit to still looking shabby.

 

Would you like to go over my hints again? Perhaps the 'timeline' part of it seems to have escaped you.

 

 

Would you like me to post the number of books in my bedroom alone? I am a bibliophile with over 500 books in my possession. I may not play guitar as well as the woman in the video, but I play guitar, ukulele, cycle, swim, and write. Those are my passions. If I wish to publish a book, there is always self-publishing with lulu. If I wish to play video and board games, there are many on the internet. And yes, I cook my own food.

 

You're assuming I said women generally don't do anything beside shallow pursuits. You forgot about my post on pg 2:

 

Mmhmm. So I made top 10 placing in several national level board game tournaments, and my teams won several intercollege computer game tournaments, because 'women don't have passion for anything other than makeup etc'. Right. Thanks for backpedaling to add 'generally' and 'rare' in your latest post - it doesn't help your case, but it's nice to see you admit that your initial post was wrong.

[O'Malley]

Why is it such a big deal when a woman does anything outside of a stereotypical notion of what a female should/could do? Are women supposed to only be into clothes, make-up, shopping and themselves?

 

I don't get this either, but then I was into certain hobbies well before I was interested in dating. Apparently being into history and mythology instead of dolls at a young age is some unfeminine trait.

 

It's hardly surprising that a woman whose interests tend to be more populated by males will get attention, it doesn't always mean it's a good kind of attention. I've been luckier than most women posters here in that I've only become involved with good men that I met via these avenues.

[Cypress25]

Thing is, women don't have any passion for anything aside from clothes, shopping, and make-up.

 

That's totally 100% wrong. Of course women are passionate about other things! Most of us went to school to study subjects we cared about, most of us have jobs that revolve around our interests, and many of us do volunteer work to support causes that matter to us. Real women are not Stepford wives. I don't actually know any women who are passionate about clothes, shopping, or make-up.

 

It's difficult to meet a woman with a passionate interest. Women only seem to like quick entertainment: gossiping, shopping, watching TV, etc. I really don't think women discuss things amongst themselves. They just seem to gab from one subject to the next.

 

I get the feeling you've never actually interacted with a real woman, because everything you say is based on outdated stereotypes. Women don't have passionate interests? Women only like gossiping, shopping, and watching TV? Women never have intelligent discussions about anything serious? You can't possibly believe any of that. Go out and interact with some real women, and you'll prove yourself wrong.

 

Women are interested in quick entertainment: shopping, makeup, television, and gossip. Those are all women are pretty much interested in. It's rare to find women with more interests.

 

So basically, you're sexist and ignorant. It's not rare to find a woman with more interests. In fact, I challenge you to find one real woman who is only interested in shopping, make-up, TV, and gossip. You won't be able to find one, because that is what's rare. How do you think so many women graduate from college and grad school, and have successful careers, and do meaningful volunteer work, and participate in political campaigns and rallies, and play sports, and take an avid interest in literature, art, music, and film, if all they care about is shopping, make-up, TV, and gossip? Do you really believe that women don't do any of those things?

 

Get out into the real world with the 3-dimensional women, and you will easily find intelligent, diverse women with a wide range of passionate interests and fascinating hobbies. Then maybe you'll be able to let go of the dumbass stereotype of women that you've been holding onto.

[Oxy Moronovich]

Wow Elswyth, you won so many tournaments. However, you made this quote:

 

You mentioned 'immersion in a hobby', not simply 'having a hobby'. Watching TV qualifies as a hobby - but not so much as a passion to immerse in. Given that the woman spends 18 hours a week on her appearance, that is about 2-3 hours a day. The average adult spends 10 hours a day on work including commute and pre-work stuff like breakfast. 8 hours a day is the recommended sleep time. That leaves a person with 3 hours free. What about friends/family/partner time, cooking, eating, errands, chores?

 

You said women spend 2-3 hours a day on appearances. How are you able to juggle school, commuting to work, eating, cooking, family, errands, etc. and still have a hobby? Oh wait, you said you don't spend 2-3 hours a day on appearances. Only average-looking women do that. That means you're below average-looking. So instead of spending 2-3 hours on appearance, you spend it on games and tournaments. Good job, young lady.

[Oxy Moronovich]

Cypress, my line of thinking may be sexist, but it's a common belief amongst men. Talk to many guys and they'll say the same thing as me. That's why the chick in jobaba's video had so many comments from adoring men. That's why average-looking women at gaming conventions get so much attention. Guys know it's rare to find a woman with diverse interests. Attention whores and cockteases know this. That's why they pretend to be interested in guy stuff because they wouldn't get attention otherwise.

 

Basically, when you've met one woman, you've met them all.

[Els]

Wow Elswyth, you won so many tournaments. However, you made this quote:

 

 

 

You said women spend 2-3 hours a day on appearances. How are you able to juggle school, commuting to work, eating, cooking, family, errands, etc. and still have a hobby? Oh wait, you said you don't spend 2-3 hours a day on appearances. Only average-looking women do that. That means you're below average-looking. So instead of spending 2-3 hours on appearance, you spend it on games and tournaments. Good job, young lady.

 

Oh, jeez, of all the pathetic comebacks you could have come up with. Were strawman insults considered elegant riposte in the 500 books you've read?

 

Interesting that you would try to shame me for kicking ass in male-dominated hobbies (that you, despite being male and probably spending as much time on your appearance as the old me did, do not appear to be succeeding at as much), while at the same time claiming that no women ever were passionate about them, except to 'impress men or as a fleeting attempt'. On the other hand, if I had said that I used those 5 hours a day on improving my appearance and thus looked like Megan Fox, you would have said that it is proof that all women are shallow and not interested in anything else. Apparently striking a balance between the two, ie sacrificing some of one for the other, as verhzhn is trying to do, is wrong as well. I have a little niggly feeling that simply being a woman is wrong in your eyes.

 

You could probably try being with men instead, but.. please, don't. You'd be a shame to other sensible members of the homosexual community.

 

Seeing as your sole response when proved wrong via a logical argument is to attempt to insult to person you are debating with in as lame a fashion as you can manage, I don't see the point in continuing to waste precious time on you. You're evidently the same broken record that a few other 'male' posters of your ilk are, and nothing can change that.

 

Ignored. Good luck with life, dude. You'll need it.

[Els]

Sounds like the guys you've talked to have zero social skills. It's retarded trying to make hobbies and interests into a competition.

 

I love it when I hear a girl is into something that I am, it makes for real easy conversation. I don't try to prove that I'm better at it/know more than she does. I'm just happy to hear what she thinks about the game/show etc. I still remember being really surprised when I found out that D was playing Dragon Age back when it was new. It just made me feel closer to her because it meant we had similar interests. We talked about character builds, the story and our first experiences with the Broodmother:love:, it wasn't about trying to one up each other.

 

Hey SD,

 

I see the point in what both you and V are saying. I think it is a mix between the two - most geeky guys and musicians genuinely enjoy talking to a girl about the stuff they enjoy, I think, no contest. However, there also appears to be some sort of 'male ego' in some of them, that consciously or subconsciously believes that it's great for a girl to be into games... as long as she isn't better than he is.

 

I was the female drummer of a small band (we didn't have any external gigs, it was just a casual sort of thing), and I received more ribbing than any of the other (all male) members. That could probably be because I was the newest and most inexperienced, granted. However, the clearest indication of this male-ego behaviour was when I played competitive team games with guys. Some guys (not all, but a significant proportion of them) seem to need to put down a woman to reinforce their own belief that they are better than her. This is often done jokingly, but is done often enough by those select offenders that it gets Really. Irritating. Bf claims they do it because they feel threatened. I agree with him. That's one of the things I like about him, he doesn't do that kind of crap.

 

Regardless, it was a large motivator for my decision to leave team gaming. The other reason is that, unfortunately, the popularity of female gamers is still based much less on their skills than their appearance. Have you ever seen comments on an all-female DotA team or female SC players' pages? Pages after pages of 'Oh, girl #1 is totally hot, I would bang her', 'Player #2 is cute, but not as hot as #1', 'Why does player #3 have a face like that!?!?', 'OH HAY U GURLZZ R HOTTT'. It's like being in a modelling competition - not my aim at all.

 

I agree that if a girl is really good, like Daigo Umehara or IMNesTea or Vigoss good, she would probably be treated with the same respect they are. Hopefully. But if she is just on par with the hordes of other male gamers who are 'decent but not that good', no one would bother commenting on her skills and everyone would simply treat it like a modelling contest.

 

The guys you know are like that? And they still manged to get wives/girlfriends? I think I'm living in the wrong part of the country.

Damn, $225 on a couple items of clothes!?

 

First of all I don't like perfume. Dead flowers isn't a scent that men are drawn to. Try something like bacon or cookies if you want to make an impression. I'm only halfway joking.

 

Why spend $75 on a shirt? What's wrong with stuff from Macy's or Penny's? A decent looking shirt shouldn't cost that much.

 

Well, we're agreed on the perfume. I hate perfume and I'm glad my guy doesn't wear cologne. Plenty of men do like perfume on a woman though, if it is subtle.

 

The issue with clothes, and especially shoes, is that you often, but not always, get what you paid for. Better clothes are usually better-cut, made of better material, and, if you choose one that fits your body type, often most flattering. You can probably get some good ones thrift-shop hunting, but it isn't nearly as easy and takes a helluva lot more time.

 

Though jeans for women does matter and a good fit is important. Men are going to be looking at your ass every chance they can get and jeans quality does make a difference. Still $120 seems awfully expensive.

 

$120 seems fairly normal for a good pair of jeans. Which is why I don't have one that good.

[Wolf18]

Hey Elswyth I know you're too cool for school and have too much CLASS to answer my mean icky posts, but why don't you answer the question about how long you've ever been single against your will?

[Els]

Lol, sorry, I missed your post. Probably about 2 years.

 

I won't deny that I get more attention than other women who look the same as I do, possibly even more than women who look a little better. Definitely more than many other male geeks.

 

But not as much as the very good-looking women, no.

[Cypress25]

Cypress, my line of thinking may be sexist, but it's a common belief amongst men. Talk to many guys and they'll say the same thing as me.

 

Actually, I've never heard a guy say that in real life. That's why I was so shocked to read it from you. My first thought was "Who thinks like that?!" I think you may be the only one.

 

Guys know it's rare to find a woman with diverse interests.

 

They know it's rare, or they think it's rare? Because it's not rare at all. Any guy who thinks so is flat out wrong. There are too many women in the world devoting themselves to all sorts of activities for anyone to think women don't have diverse interests and passions. Look around.

 

Attention whores and cockteases know this. That's why they pretend to be interested in guy stuff because they wouldn't get attention otherwise.

 

Are you defining "guy stuff" as anything other than clothes, make-up, and shopping? If so, your definition is bullsh*t because men don't have a monopoly on every other hobby in the world. What about gender-neutral stuff like literature, music, politics, art, film, traveling, religion, philosophy, sports (yes, there are many female athletes in the world; sports are no longer "guy stuff"), journalism, photography, animals, charity organizations, etc? The list is endless. You think women aren't passionate about that stuff? Or does that stuff not count because it's not "guy stuff" (like beer, football, and video games)?

 

Just because a woman is not interested in beer, football, or video games doesn't mean she has no passions or interests. It just means you need to expand your horizons beyond beer, football, and video games. And you need to stop pretending that those are not shallow interests, just like clothes, make-up, and shopping.

 

And there are women who are genuinely interested in "guy stuff" too. They're not pretending for your benefit.

 

Basically, when you've met one woman, you've met them all.

 

I can't think of a better way to validate your point than making blanket generalizations and propagating ignorant stereotypes. Claiming that all women are the same really gives credibility to your argument. With logic like that, who could argue with you?

 

I smell a troll.

[Cypress25]

$120 seems fairly normal for a good pair of jeans.

 

Nah, $60 at Gap, $80 at Express. Unless you're short like me, in which case you'd have to spend an extra $20 on every pair of jeans to have them hemmed.

[verhrzn]

Hey SD,

 

I see the point in what both you and V are saying. I think it is a mix between the two - most geeky guys and musicians genuinely enjoy talking to a girl about the stuff they enjoy, I think, no contest. However, there also appears to be some sort of 'male ego' in some of them, that consciously or subconsciously believes that it's great for a girl to be into games... as long as she isn't better than he is.

 

 

Regardless, it was a large motivator for my decision to leave team gaming. The other reason is that, unfortunately, the popularity of female gamers is still based much less on their skills than their appearance. Have you ever seen comments on an all-female DotA team or female SC players' pages? Pages after pages of 'Oh, girl #1 is totally hot, I would bang her', 'Player #2 is cute, but not as hot as #1', 'Why does player #3 have a face like that!?!?', 'OH HAY U GURLZZ R HOTTT'. It's like being in a modelling competition - not my aim at all.

 

YES. Exactly! This is the experience I have had, that's been so difficult to articulate. Oh man, I just want to hug you. In fact I will *VIRTUAL SQUEE*

 

I remember once on another forum I was lamenting a situation in which I got into arguments with no less than 4 geeky guys at one party... The people on the forum were convinced it was because I was being "argumentative." But the fact is, nerdy male egos are very prickly things. Even the otherwise-social-functioning ones start feeling a little threatened when you, a female, start to make THEM look like a poser.

 

The irony, really. I think I would have had much better luck with those guys if I HAD only picked up nerdy stuff as an attempt to impress them. Then they could pat me on the head and think," Aw, look at the little girl geek." But when I demonstrated I was an individual with opinions and view points on these same hobbies... that I was, perhaps, even, their EQUAL.... No, no. The majority was vastly uncomfortable with this.

 

And then there's the high double standard applies to girls who are into geeky things. Yes, you're a geek, but you're seen as a GIRL first. And you better be a hot girl.... OR a serious nerd. You are allowed such narrow options: either you're the ugly hardcore girl, the hot hardcore girl, or the hot Booth Bunny.

[Oxy Moronovich]

Hey Elswyth I know you're too cool for school and have too much CLASS to answer my mean icky posts, but why don't you answer the question about how long you've ever been single against your will?

Here's your answer, dude. This is from a thread she made just a few days ago:

 

I've always been of the geek tomboy variety. I met my current bf at a video game tournament (or 'cybersports', as they like to call it ) several years ago. From what he's said, I gather a large part of the attraction he had for me was due to the passion I had for the geek-hobbies we shared, and my intellect. I dressed very simply and often quite shabbily back then when he fell for me, and although I improved a little over the years we were together, I still am at heart the tee-and-jeans sort of girl.

 

Recently, though, I realized something - I'd always eschewed pursuit of external improvement over improvement of the mind, believing that development of the mind was more important and that any available resource (time, money, etc), should be devoted to it instead. But it occurred to me that I would have my intellect for a long time to come, hopefully, most people don't experience degeneration of the mind until well into their 70s or at least 60s. On the other hand, I'm in my mid-twenties. If I ever want to look good, well, now's the time. It wouldn't be impossible to do so in my thirties or above, but it would probably be more difficult. Weird reason, I know, but I'd never had the desire to look good before this. I know most girls get it at like 11. Yeah, yeah.

 

I know my bf loved me for my geek tomboy self, but hey, that wouldn't necessarily mean that he would not enjoy me looking feminine, I thought.

I'd still be the same geeky gamer underneath - just in a nicer wrapper.

 

So, I did some sort of makeover thing - at the thrift stores, since we pool household funds and I know he has had a bad experience with having to bail his ex out previously because she spent all the money she had on hair, makeup and clothes despite barely having enough to eat. Anyhow. For the first time in my life, I cleansed, exfoliated, shaved completely, used semi-professional conditioner, got a semi-professional haircut, bought a dress, skirt, and blouse, and a pair of heels.

 

I wore the skirt and heels out for the first time ever with him, one night (okay, I'd done it before, but that was for the HS prom aaaages ago and he was not there to see it). He did all the right things - brought the car around for me so I wouldn't need to tread over soil with the heels, helped me down steps... But other than the initial, "Mmm" and some making out when he first saw me, nothing else changed at all!

 

I'm not sure what I expected... some sort of compliment, I guess, since it was the first time he'd ever seen me like that, and it took quite a bit of work to get there! I received none at all. He was not any more affectionate than usual during dinner. When we got back, he did jump me for, uh, good times, but I'm not sure whether it was the clothes or the fact that I was turned on and 'subtly' let him know. In fact, I'd guess more of the latter.

 

Here's the clincher: As we were snuggling down for the night, I did a rather bad thing (I know, I know). I fished. I asked him if I had looked alright tonight. He initially tried to evade the question with a few jokes. I scowled playfully at him. He fell silent for probably one whole minute before saying, "You looked gorgeeouuss" and breaking off into some love song. C'mon, dude...

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t309884/

 

She's a tomboy whose never shaved before; she's never worn a dress; she admits to dressing shabby in only tees and jeans; never used conditioner in her hair or exfoliated; she admits her boyfriend was interested in her more for her hobby than for her looks; when she finally dressed feminine it barely aroused a response from her boyfriend; and when she asked her boyfriend if she looked all right at best he did his best to evade the question.

 

And yet, somehow, she wants us to believe she gets more attention than the average woman.

 

If you read her threads, you would have figured out she's lying. But then she'd accuse you of stalking like she does me.

[Wolf18]

I won't deny that I get more attention than other women who look the same as I do, possibly even more than women who look a little better. Definitely more than many other male geeks.[/Quote]

 

Then the debate is over.

 

 

But not as much as the very good-looking women, no.

 

 

What do you expect the lives of "very good looking women" are like?

 

I've known a few, and not that different from yours. When I personally see a "very good looking" woman , I just write her off as high maintenance.

 

I may make a half-assed or sleazy attempt with an amusing pick up line, just to make my friends I'm with laugh, but I'm not going to even entertain the idea of a very good looking girlfriend. A woman who puts all that effort into her appearance, is going to expect a guy who does the same , and I'm not going to start waxing my eyebrows or buying 300 dollar jeans. If I manage to get her, it's going to be a headache to date her with every guy looking to get his way (and eventually one succeeding). Believe it or not, most guys feel this way.

 

 

By looking attainable, even if you are just as unattainable as a woman who spends all her effort on her physical looks, you will get far more serious male attention. I'm always on the lookout for girls like you, only to scratch the surface and find out they have more male orbiters than all the extremely hot girls I know.

[Els]

Nah, $60 at Gap, $80 at Express. Unless you're short like me, in which case you'd have to spend an extra $20 on every pair of jeans to have them hemmed.

 

I am very short indeed.

 

I have a lot of trouble finding good jeans - I am very picky about comfort, so a pair that looks good but isn't comfy just won't do. I have only ever seen one pair that I loved, a Levi's, that costed $150!! But it wasn't in the USA. Perhaps they're cheaper there.

 

YES. Exactly! This is the experience I have had, that's been so difficult to articulate. Oh man, I just want to hug you. In fact I will *VIRTUAL SQUEE*

 

Awww.

 

I remember once on another forum I was lamenting a situation in which I got into arguments with no less than 4 geeky guys at one party... The people on the forum were convinced it was because I was being "argumentative." But the fact is, nerdy male egos are very prickly things. Even the otherwise-social-functioning ones start feeling a little threatened when you, a female, start to make THEM look like a poser.

 

The irony, really. I think I would have had much better luck with those guys if I HAD only picked up nerdy stuff as an attempt to impress them. Then they could pat me on the head and think," Aw, look at the little girl geek." But when I demonstrated I was an individual with opinions and view points on these same hobbies... that I was, perhaps, even, their EQUAL.... No, no. The majority was vastly uncomfortable with this.

 

And then there's the high double standard applies to girls who are into geeky things. Yes, you're a geek, but you're seen as a GIRL first. And you better be a hot girl.... OR a serious nerd. You are allowed such narrow options: either you're the ugly hardcore girl, the hot hardcore girl, or the hot Booth Bunny.

 

That does seem to be the case, doesn't it? Fortunately, I don't think it applies to all guys, though definitely there are many of them who fit this to the core. I have met several genuinely great male geeks.

 

Also, it just appears to be gaming that gets their egos all riled up. I have had much better experience with discussing coding stuff, and working with guys to get computers and networks assembled. Perhaps there's just something about games that brings the competitive beast out.

[Els]

 

What do you expect the lives of "very good looking women" are like?

 

I've known a few, and not that different from yours. When I personally see a "very good looking" woman , I just write her off as high maintenance.

 

I do know a few, and I do see guys slathering over them all the time. I am considered part of the 'guy crowd' when I game with them and I hear their conversations about them all the time.

 

 

I may make a half-assed or sleazy attempt with an amusing pick up line, just to make my friends I'm with laugh, but I'm not going to even entertain the idea of a very good looking girlfriend. A woman who puts all that effort into her appearance, is going to expect a guy who does the same , and I'm not going to start waxing my eyebrows or buying 300 dollar jeans. If I manage to get her, it's going to be a headache to date her with every guy looking to get his way (and eventually one succeeding). Believe it or not, most guys feel this way.

 

 

By looking attainable, even if you are just as unattainable as a woman who spends all her effort on her physical looks, you will get far more serious male attention. I'm always on the lookout for girls like you, only to scratch the surface and find out they have more male orbiters than all the extremely hot girls I know.

 

I did make a point of stating that I was speaking purely in terms of quantity. The OP's premise was that having a male-dominated hobby will make one have 'lots of guys falling over themselves to get to you'. I wished to state that this was untrue - that if a girl's sole goal was to have 'lots of guys falling over themselves to get to her', she would get quantitatively more attention by spending that time on her appearance.

 

Otherwise, I see nothing wrong with the rest of your post. I merely wished to stress that picking up a hobby solely to attract men is really not a very good idea.

[Wolf18]

I do know a few, and I do see guys slathering over them all the time. I am considered part of the 'guy crowd' when I game with them and I hear their conversations about them all the time. [/Quote]

 

You must be very brave to live in the Angry Frustrated Male world of internet games. When I used to play counter strike and Left 4 Dead and someone with a female voice or name would join, all the guys would get together to harrass and troll her

 

I did make a point of stating that I was speaking purely in terms of quantity. The OP's premise was that having a male-dominated hobby will make one have 'lots of guys falling over themselves to get to you'. I wished to state that this was untrue - that if a girl's sole goal was to have 'lots of guys falling over themselves to get to her', she would get quantitatively more attention by spending that time on her appearance.

 

Otherwise, I see nothing wrong with the rest of your post. I merely wished to stress that picking up a hobby solely to attract men is really not a very good idea. [/Quote]

 

 

I'll bet you've had more fulfilling relationships with men than most very hot women. If only women knew that having some kind of interests was more important than living your life to ...look hot and get attention, then they wouldn't be objectified as much as they are. A person that only works on their exterior is, for all intents and purposes, an object.

[Oxy Moronovich]

Cypress, my line of thinking may be sexist, but it's a common belief amongst men. Talk to many guys and they'll say the same thing as me.

 

Actually, I've never heard a guy say that in real life. That's why I was so shocked to read it from you. My first thought was "Who thinks like that?!" I think you may be the only one.

 

Guys generally talk about how women don't have any hobbies amongst other men. Either that or on the internet. If we did it in public it would cause a lot of hissyfits.

 

I did a google search for, "Do women have hobbies?" and I came up with 10 threads where men ask/discuss how women don't have hobbies. This explains why an average-looking woman who has a hobby is hot to many guys. She actually seems to enjoy things more than typical women stuff.

 

Here are a few of the sites I found:

 

What hobbies do women have? Like what do they do ALL day?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080102134507AAwkR4S

Why don't most women have cool hobbies like men do?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110411033802AAUuT3C

Edited December 17, 2011 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[OnyxSnowfall]

LoL

 

This is just ludicrous =P

[Oxy Moronovich]

LoL

 

This is just ludicrous =P

I always liked your screen name. I wanna use it as a story title or a title for a song I'm writing.

 

How'd you come up with it, by the way?

[Els]

You must be very brave to live in the Angry Frustrated Male world of internet games. When I used to play counter strike and Left 4 Dead and someone with a female voice or name would join, all the guys would get together to harrass and troll her

 

Geez, really? >_> That hasn't been my experience in general, no. Besides, if I joined a L4D server in which the guys were trolling me, I'd just leave and find another. I think I've encountered more AFM trolls here than in games.

 

I'll bet you've had more fulfilling relationships with men than most very hot women. If only women knew that having some kind of interests was more important than living your life to ...look hot and get attention, then they wouldn't be objectified as much as they are. A person that only works on their exterior is, for all intents and purposes, an object.

 

I don't dare to compare and quantify to that extent - no one really knows how a person's relationship is behind the scenes. I do know some very hot women who appear to have good Rs, and some who don't. But yes, I have generally had very fulfilling Rs with men who generally connected with me in very special and complete ways. That may be a function of the fact that I don't 'date around', though - I don't play the numbers game, I grow to like a guy via friendship and we just grow close that way.

 

I fully support people, both men and women, trying new hobbies. But if a girl is doing it for male attention, well, how is she any different from the girl who looks hot for male attention, underneath? Intelligent men can sense lack of passion, I believe. And passion won't be there if you're not genuinely interested.