For women who want to attract more men...

[Els]

If I want to look the level of attractiveness that a lot of guys demand, I HAVE to make make-up and clothing (and shopping, because clothes shopping is actually freaking difficult) a full time hobby. It SUCKS. I hate it. That's WHY I wear simple jeans and a nice blouse.

 

But then I'm not impressive enough looking.

 

Seriously. You claim women are shallow, but then you demand that women be shallow in order to be attractive. You demand that women have "interesting" hobbies and not be posers, but then you chase them off if they don't meet your insanely high expectations. Guys with this attitude CAN NEVER BE SATISFIED.

 

I think you hit the nail on the head pretty much here. Many men don't seem to understand that beauty is a huge time and money investment all in itself. Nor do they realize that on average, most women put in a lot more time to achieve societal standards of beauty than men do. Both need to work out to achieve the sort of body shape the opposite sex wants - men perhaps a little more if they want to build a bit of muscle (I'm not talking The Rock muscle, just the usual good-looking-guy muscle). But in terms of hair care, skin care, hair removal, finding flattering clothes and shoes, makeup, etc, being an attractive woman takes a lot more time. No contest. No guy who has ever lived with a stereotypically attractive woman will ever deny this.

 

So where does all that extra time come from, assuming she works or studies full-time? From the time that men otherwise spend on their hobbies, most likely. That is why women who do all of the above and work full-time rarely are able to 'immerse themselves' in a hobby. Something has to give to make room for that time.

 

I'm on summer hols now, so I am fortunate enough to have the leisure to enjoy the hobbies that I am passionate about (coding, reading, gaming), as well as do the whole shopping and beauty thing. I am enjoying both. But I know that when I begin full-time university again, I will likely need to tone one of them down. I will naturally choose to sacrifice on the beauty part in order to pursue my hobbies. A few years back, I was studying full-time in a fairly challenging pure science course and training for competitive gaming. I barely had time to do both of that and maintain a social life, nevermind beauty stuff. I am lucky that I have a man who loves me for this. But others are not so lucky, because finding a man who appreciates a woman for this is far less common than finding a man who appreciates the sort of girl that is the result of hundreds of cumulative hours of shopping and beauty routines.

[Wolf18]

Meh, I don't think anyone should pick up a hobby 'just' to attract the opposite sex. Your lack of passion will show through, and the more observant and intelligent guys will notice it.

 

As a female coder and semi-competitive gamer, I have noticed that it draws attention, yes. But really, if I did not enjoy it and was just doing it for the attention, I would have quit long ago. Why would you spend tens of hours a week doing something that you don't enjoy just because it attracts the opposite sex? If you're a girl and attracting the opposite sex is your ONLY motive, those hours would be far better invested in beauty care, shopping for flattering clothes and the gym - that will still bring you more male attention than the small niche you hope to attract by faking a hobby.

 

 

I will tell you that this is wrong.

 

If you want to be a typical woman who just shops for clothes and meets guys at the gym, while you will always have the advantage you will have way more compettition than if you become a female video game player or female whose into metal music, or any other scenes where men outnumber women 10 to 1 and those 10 men probably haven't seen a real life girl naked in years .

 

Looking very hot will get you lots of attention, but IMO appealing to a male niche will have a bunch of guys fighting eachother to marry you, no matter what you look like.

[verhrzn]

I think you hit the nail on the head pretty much here. Many men don't seem to understand that beauty is a huge time and money investment all in itself. Nor do they realize that on average, most women put in a lot more time to achieve societal standards of beauty than men do. Both need to work out to achieve the sort of body shape the opposite sex wants - men perhaps a little more if they want to build a bit of muscle (I'm not talking The Rock muscle, just the usual good-looking-guy muscle). But in terms of hair care, skin care, hair removal, finding flattering clothes and shoes, makeup, etc, being an attractive woman takes a lot more time. No contest. No guy who has ever lived with a stereotypically attractive woman will ever deny this.

 

And don't forget what a money sink "beauty" actually is.

 

For example, this month I bought some average perfume, a decent pair of pants that actually look good on me, and two nice shirts from Express. (Good quality, nice fit.) Total: about $225 ($30 perfume, $120 jeans, $75ish for shirts.) And that's only the beauty stuff I remember off the top of my head.

 

Now, if PS3 games are $60 a pop, how many PS3 games could I have bought? And how much time would I have had to play those games if I wasn't looking for just the right fit to make my butt look like it existed? (Driving to the mall, walking to the stores, and trying things on is probably about 3-4 hours all told.)

 

So if men want women who obsess over hobbies like they do... then they're going to have to let the standards slide somewhere else.

[verhrzn]

Looking very hot will get you lots of attention, but IMO appealing to a male niche will have a bunch of guys fighting eachother to marry you, no matter what you look like.

 

That's only if you can prove to them that you belong to their niche. I've had guys at cons quiz me for over an hour on Batman trivia, WoW stats, and DnD rules because they were convinced I was a poser.

 

Furthermore, nerd niches aren't actually as male-dense as you make them out to be. With the introduction of anime and cosplaying to "nerdy" circles, a lot more girls have started trickling in. At the cons I've been to, I see a maybe 2-to-1 ratio... Still in the girls' favor, but not as drastically as you think. There actually ARE a lot of gamers and nerds who are girls in our generation... it's no longer the advantage it once was.

[Els]

And don't forget what a money sink "beauty" actually is.

 

For example, this month I bought some average perfume, a decent pair of pants that actually look good on me, and two nice shirts from Express. (Good quality, nice fit.) Total: about $225 ($30 perfume, $120 jeans, $75ish for shirts.) And that's only the beauty stuff I remember off the top of my head.

 

Now, if PS3 games are $60 a pop, how many PS3 games could I have bought? And how much time would I have had to play those games if I wasn't looking for just the right fit to make my butt look like it existed? (Driving to the mall, walking to the stores, and trying things on is probably about 3-4 hours all told.)

 

So if men want women who obsess over hobbies like they do... then they're going to have to let the standards slide somewhere else.

 

 

Haha, yeah. I buy my clothes in thrift stores, even, but I realized that with the $200 that I'd spent on them (dress, skirt, heels, stockings, and some random stuff like conditioner, body scrub, wrinkle prevention cream, etc), I could have likely gotten a better graphics card. So there's a sacrifice made. Also, if you want to save money and not buy clothes that you end up never wearing, it takes a long time to browse. Women's clothing departments are usually twice as big as men's.. or more.

[jobaba]

And don't forget what a money sink "beauty" actually is.

 

For example, this month I bought some average perfume, a decent pair of pants that actually look good on me, and two nice shirts from Express. (Good quality, nice fit.) Total: about $225 ($30 perfume, $120 jeans, $75ish for shirts.) And that's only the beauty stuff I remember off the top of my head.

 

Now, if PS3 games are $60 a pop, how many PS3 games could I have bought? And how much time would I have had to play those games if I wasn't looking for just the right fit to make my butt look like it existed? (Driving to the mall, walking to the stores, and trying things on is probably about 3-4 hours all told.)

 

So if men want women who obsess over hobbies like they do... then they're going to have to let the standards slide somewhere else.

 

Haha.

 

I spent ~ $500 on 'accessories' this week alone. $70 on cologne, and $400 on clothes (two jackets, and two sweaters). I recently spent around $150 on skin care products (exfoliating creams and gels and Proactiv refills), not even counting regular cleansers. I also bought two new suits this summer for three weddings I had to go to.

 

I haven't bought a video game since 1998 probably.

 

I love shopping. I'll be honest, I started it to impress women. But I just got into it. I like buying nice clothes with style. As they say, "The clothes make the man."

 

Perhaps we should switch places.

[verhrzn]

Haha.

 

I spent ~ $500 on 'accessories' this week alone. $70 on cologne, and $400 on clothes (two jackets, and two sweaters). I recently spent around $150 on skin care products (exfoliating creams and gels and Proactiv refills), not even counting regular cleansers. I also bought two new suits this summer for three weddings I had to go to.

 

I haven't bought a video game since 1998 probably.

 

I love shopping. I'll be honest, I started it to impress women. But I just got into it. I like buying nice clothes with style. As they say, "The clothes make the man."

 

Perhaps we should switch places.

 

Heck no, I love my games!!

 

I was merely pointing out that it's difficult to be obsessive about BOTH... you gotta either choose one or the other, or go partially into both. I enjoy video games, but I'm not obsessive. I (uh... tolerate) shopping, but I'm not obsessive.

 

It means that I'm not as physically attractive as I could (maybe?) be, and I'm not as nerdy as I could be. Such are the decisions of life.

[Els]

Haha.

 

I spent ~ $500 on 'accessories' this week alone. $70 on cologne, and $400 on clothes (two jackets, and two sweaters). I recently spent around $150 on skin care products (exfoliating creams and gels and Proactiv refills), not even counting regular cleansers. I also bought two new suits this summer for three weddings I had to go to.

 

I haven't bought a video game since 1998 probably.

 

I love shopping. I'll be honest, I started it to impress women. But I just got into it. I like buying nice clothes with style. As they say, "The clothes make the man."

 

Perhaps we should switch places.

 

Whooaa. That probably is on par with what most women spend.

 

I don't think most guys bother, though. 90% of my male friends would probably go 'exfoliwhat??' if I mentioned exfoliating creams to them.

[Oxy Moronovich]

Guys, on the other hand, will obsessively focus on very few particular things and inflict their hobbies on everyone around them.

How does a guy "inflict his hobby on everyone around him"? Do you mean he flicks his hobby? If you're talking about a guy who picks his nose and flicks it on people then that makes sense. Otherwise, that doesn't make any sense.

 

I mean, girls learn guitar/sports, even if fleetingly, to be attractive to guys.... why don't guys ever try learning the things that seem to be attractive to women (according to you)?

Because women generally have shallow interests like shopping, gossiping, and TV. What's there to learn from that?

 

Ya know, I run into this attitude all the freaking time in nerd cycles. Somedude claims that all you need to be is female and like "male" things.... Except whenever I offer up that I like stereotypically male hobbies (like video games, martial arts, comic books) then all of a sudden I must prove it. I must show that my knowledge and my passion is equal to every male nerd around me, or else I'm "not a real nerd."

The vast majority of women who say they like guy stuff are attention whores and cockteases. Guys demand women prove themselves in order to weed out those annoying women.

 

If I want to look the level of attractiveness that a lot of guys demand, I HAVE to make make-up and clothing (and shopping, because clothes shopping is actually freaking difficult) a full time hobby. It SUCKS. I hate it. That's WHY I wear simple jeans and a nice blouse.

Shopping wiith women is boring. More boring than watching paint dry. Women will try 6 sizes of shoes in 7 colors before deciding they don't want the shoes. Or they'll spend hours trying on clothes they don't like merely becuz the clothes are on sale. Then they'll return most of them within a week. Or hardly ever wear the clothes.

 

To women, shopping seems "freaking difficult". But it's just because women are extremely picky. The spendthrift way women shop is mindless.

 

Seriously. You claim women are shallow, but then you demand that women be shallow in order to be attractive. You demand that women have "interesting" hobbies and not be posers, but then you chase them off if they don't meet your insanely high expectations. Guys with this attitude CAN NEVER BE SATISFIED.

A man would rather have a shallow airhead than an attention whore, cocktease, or feminist. I will never be satisfied with an airhead. But I'll like her way more than the other types.

I think you hit the nail on the head pretty much here.

Wrong. She didn't hit anything on the head. She swung and missed by a mile.

So where does all that extra time come from, assuming she works or studies full-time? From the time that men otherwise spend on their hobbies, most likely. That is why women who do all of the above and work full-time rarely are able to 'immerse themselves' in a hobby. Something has to give to make room for that time.

This is a poor excuse for why women have no hobbies. For one thing, the vast majority of women aren't beauty queens. The majority of women are average-looking at best. Those average women who wear little to no make-up and are out of shape spend little to no time on their beauty. Yet they still don't have any real passion for hobbies like men.

 

Plus, you exaggerate how much time women spend the hot women keep themselves looking hot. How can a woman spend so much time on her looks she doesn't have time for hobbies? So women have time to spend hours watching TV and gossiping on the phone but little time for hobbies? Total B.S.

I will tell you that this is wrong.

 

If you want to be a typical woman who just shops for clothes and meets guys at the gym, while you will always have the advantage you will have way more compettition than if you become a female video game player or female whose into metal music, or any other scenes where men outnumber women 10 to 1 and those 10 men probably haven't seen a real life girl naked in years .

 

Looking very hot will get you lots of attention, but IMO appealing to a male niche will have a bunch of guys fighting eachother to marry you, no matter what you look like.

This dude is spot on. How come women aren't listening to him?

Edited December 16, 2011 by Oxy Moronovich

[Els]

This is a poor excuse for why women have no hobbies. For one thing, the vast majority of women aren't beauty queens. The majority of women are average-looking at best. Those average women who wear little to no make-up and are out of shape spend little to no time on their beauty. Yet they still don't have any real passion for hobbies like men.

 

*shrug* Most of the women my age do seem to wear makeup and such, and appear to be at least reasonably in shape. Perhaps it's different in America.

 

Plus, you exaggerate how much time women spend the hot women keep themselves looking hot. How can a woman spend so much time on her looks she doesn't have time for hobbies?

 

I repeat, have you ever lived with a stereotypically 'hot' woman before?

 

This dude is spot on. How come women aren't listening to him?

 

Uhmmm.. because he isn't. I'm a female semi-competitive gamer who weighs 120 lbs (to still the hordes of men who will surely post to claim that I'm overweight). I haven't actually had 'hundreds of men fighting to marry me'. I probably have had more men interested in me than the fellow average non-overweight woman does, but still far less in terms of quantity than the model-looking women do. Perhaps it may benefit you to assume less and talk to real women more.

[Wolf18]

That's only if you can prove to them that you belong to their niche. I've had guys at cons quiz me for over an hour on Batman trivia, WoW stats, and DnD rules because they were convinced I was a poser. [/Quote]

 

 

ROFL!

 

Believe me when I say this, these nerd-o's were taking an article of clothing off you in their heads for every Batman question you got right

 

Furthermore, nerd niches aren't actually as male-dense as you make them out to be. With the introduction of anime and cosplaying to "nerdy" circles, a lot more girls have started trickling in. At the cons I've been to, I see a maybe 2-to-1 ratio... Still in the girls' favor, but not as drastically as you think. There actually ARE a lot of gamers and nerds who are girls in our generation... it's no longer the advantage it once was. [/Quote]

 

I don't know about things like Anime as I've never been interested in it, but from my experience in somewhat "nerdy" endeavors like the History club at my college, Philosophy club, or chess club in HS, there is a dramatic dearth in females, the ones who do show up and are actually interested in things like History automatically get their pick if they're looking to date.

 

The history club, which I was in maybe 2 years ago, had about 25 male members and...3 females, 2 of them were extremely physically unattractive and even they had a couple of the weenies there desperate for their phone #'s. The 1 girl who was actually kind of cute (but had a boyfriend who played on the Football team of course), I actually left the club because all the losers in it would just agree with whatever she said when me and her debated, despite the fact that she would just get emotional when she began to lose .

[Els]

Heck no, I love my games!!

 

I was merely pointing out that it's difficult to be obsessive about BOTH... you gotta either choose one or the other, or go partially into both. I enjoy video games, but I'm not obsessive. I (uh... tolerate) shopping, but I'm not obsessive.

 

It means that I'm not as physically attractive as I could (maybe?) be, and I'm not as nerdy as I could be. Such are the decisions of life.

 

Again, I think this is key. It's certainly possible to look reasonably decent and have some hobbies. But sacrifices need to be made either way. Time spent shopping will be less time spent 'immersed' in a hobby. Bottom line, I believe everyone should do with their leisure time what THEY enjoy, not use it solely to try and get a mate.

[Wolf18]

Uhmmm.. because he isn't. I'm a female semi-competitive gamer who weighs 120 lbs (to still the hordes of men who will surely post to claim that I'm overweight). I haven't actually had 'hundreds of men fighting to marry me'. I probably have had more men interested in me than the fellow average non-overweight woman does, but still far less in terms of quantity than the model-looking women do. Perhaps it may benefit you to assume less and talk to real women more. [/Quote]

 

 

Hmm, riddle me this, what's the longest time you've been without a mate?

[Oxy Moronovich]

*shrug* Most of the women my age do seem to wear makeup and such, and appear to be at least reasonably in shape. Perhaps it's different in America.

Name what country you're from and I'll tell you why you're lying.

 

I repeat, have you ever lived with a stereotypically 'hot' woman before?

Yes. How about you answer my question: how can a woman spend so much time gossiping and watching TV then complain she doesn't have enough time for hobbies?

 

 

Uhmmm.. because he isn't. I'm a female semi-competitive gamer who weighs 120 lbs (to still the hordes of men who will surely post to claim that I'm overweight). I haven't actually had 'hundreds of men fighting to marry me'. I probably have had more men interested in me than the fellow average non-overweight woman does, but still far less in terms of quantity than the model-looking women do. Perhaps it may benefit you to assume less and talk to real women more.

Wait a minute. You just said you spend hours of your time on your looks, implying that you look hot. But then you said you have less interest than "model-looking" women. You also said "the fellow average non-overweight woman". That would mean you're not hot and you don't spend a lot of time keeping in shape. Why are you lying?

[Els]

Name what country you're from and I'll tell you why you're lying.

 

 

Yes. How about you answer my question: how can a woman spend so much time gossiping and watching TV then complain she doesn't have enough time for hobbies?

 

 

 

Wait a minute. You just said you spend hours of your time on your looks, implying that you look hot. But then you said you have less interest than "model-looking" women. You also said "the fellow average non-overweight woman". That would mean you're not hot and you don't spend a lot of time keeping in shape. Why are you lying?

 

Evidently you can't seem to keep a discussion civil. Or read my posts, even. I am certainly not telling someone as creepy as yourself what country I come from, but let's just say it's halfway around the world from the USA.

 

Also, the majority of 'average-looking' women do spend several hours a week on their appearance, FYI. 'Average' is relative - if 80% of females in your age group and demographic wear makeup, work out, and style their hair, doing so will not necessarily propel you above 'average'. 'Below average' would usually mean that the woman is overweight and such. Models generally go the extra mile and do stuff like plastic surgery and professional makeup artists.

 

So, about this 'woman' you 'lived with'. What do you know about her beauty routine? Surely you must have shared a bathroom.

Edited December 16, 2011 by Elswyth

[jobaba]

Heck no, I love my games!!

 

I was merely pointing out that it's difficult to be obsessive about BOTH... you gotta either choose one or the other, or go partially into both. I enjoy video games, but I'm not obsessive. I (uh... tolerate) shopping, but I'm not obsessive.

 

It means that I'm not as physically attractive as I could (maybe?) be, and I'm not as nerdy as I could be. Such are the decisions of life.

 

Yea, the clothes haven't helped much. For the women I've managed to be in relationships with, one was before I started dressing well, and the others I could have probably gotten while wearing clothes from Target. Kind of disappointing it hasn't helped. But it's more for me now than anything.

 

Whooaa. That probably is on par with what most women spend.

 

I don't think most guys bother, though. 90% of my male friends would probably go 'exfoliwhat??' if I mentioned exfoliating creams to them.

 

Yea. That is probably not something I would do on my own if I had no trouble getting women. But as they say, I'm trying to maximize the piece of clay they gave me. And my skin ain't great...

[verhrzn]

The history club, which I was in maybe 2 years ago, had about 25 male members and...3 females, 2 of them were extremely physically unattractive and even they had a couple of the weenies there desperate for their phone #'s. The 1 girl who was actually kind of cute (but had a boyfriend who played on the Football team of course), I actually left the club because all the losers in it would just agree with whatever she said when me and her debated, despite the fact that she would just get emotional when she began to lose .

 

Maybe we just live in different dimensions. I majored in history, and my upper level history courses were either split evenly down the middle in terms of gender, or contained slightly more females than males. Our history fraternity had nearly all female officers.

 

Of course, it's also important to specify WHAT type of history, or what niche you're selecting in. If I did a formal poll, I think I could accurately guess that the people who love World War 2 history are mostly males, and the people who love Victorian or Medieval history have more females than males. So, if you're only going to be interested in woman who love World War 2 history.... yeah, your options are more numbered. But if you expand to "women who love history," and don't focus so much on the specifics, I think you'd find a lot more females with that hobby than you'd expect.

 

Wait a minute. You just said you spend hours of your time on your looks, implying that you look hot. But then you said you have less interest than "model-looking" women. You also said "the fellow average non-overweight woman". That would mean you're not hot and you don't spend a lot of time keeping in shape. Why are you lying?

 

The logic is not hard to break down here.

 

You claim most women only like make-up and clothes shopping. So, the average woman is spending a great deal of time on her appearance, let's say $100 a week and 10 hours of prep time. So, if a woman wants to be MORE attractive than the average woman, she's going to need to spend $200 a week, and 20 hours of prep time.

 

What this means is that even a woman who spends time and money on her appearance is still not going to stand out, because she's spending the same amount of time and money on her appearance as other girls.

[Oxy Moronovich]

Evidently you can't seem to keep a discussion civil. Or read my posts, even. I am certainly not telling someone as creepy as yourself what country I come from, but let's just say it's halfway around the world from the USA.

 

Also, the majority of 'average-looking' women do spend several hours a week on their appearance, FYI. 'Average' is relative - if 80% of females in your age group and demographic wear makeup, work out, and style their hair, doing so will not necessarily propel you above 'average'. 'Below average' would usually mean that the woman is overweight and such. Models generally go the extra mile and do stuff like plastic surgery and professional makeup artists.

 

So, about this 'woman' you 'lived with'. What do you know about her beauty routine? Surely you must have shared a bathroom.

You sound Greek, Russian, or Indian. The average woman in those countries do not spend so much time on their beauty it stops them from having hobbies. By the way, why are you still dodging the question? How can a woman spend a lot of time on television and gossiping but little on hobbies?

 

The woman I lived with was 19 at the time. Cuter than Scarlett Johansson with naturally orange-blonde hair. Since she was naturally cute, she didn't spend a lot of time on make-up. She only spent 30 minutes on makeup at most and hair. She spent about 30 minutes in the shower, but she didn't need to spend that much. She worked out less than 2 hours each week. She probably spent around 18 hours on herself, considering that she showered twice a day. Even with her job and school she definitely had enough time for hobbies.

 

Your whole premise is that a woman spends too much time trying to look good to develop a hobby. That is ridiculous. So women have enough time to entertain themselves with TV, gossiping, shopping, and going to clubs and parties but not enough time for hobbies? Silly.

[Wolf18]

Maybe we just live in different dimensions. I majored in history, and my upper level history courses were either split evenly down the middle in terms of gender, or contained slightly more females than males. Our history fraternity had nearly all female officers. [/Quote]

 

Classes don't mean anything. I'm taking an upper level sociology class that I have 0 interest in, because it is a requirement for one of the minors I want to get .

 

I would even argue that majoring in something doesn't really denote interest in it. I'm majoring in history, with a concentration on American history. I think American history is pretty boring and would not pursue it outside of school, but I think it could help me get a job easier.

 

Most people are in college because they want a degree to get a job, not because they are interested in knowledge.

 

I don't know what a "history fraternity" is, but I don't understand how a fraternity would have women in it.

 

Of course, it's also important to specify WHAT type of history, or what niche you're selecting in. If I did a formal poll, I think I could accurately guess that the people who love World War 2 history are mostly males, and the people who love Victorian or Medieval history have more females than males. So, if you're only going to be interested in woman who love World War 2 history.... yeah, your options are more numbered. But if you expand to "women who love history," and don't focus so much on the specifics, I think you'd find a lot more females with that hobby than you'd expect. [/Quote]

 

LOL women like Medieval history ? Sorry I have never met or heard of a woman I could have a conversation about Charlemagne with (cue: woman copying and pasting Charlemagnes wikipedia article to "prove me wrong"), and I have gone to many historical events. Not only is Medieval history something heavily male dominated, but a plurality are elderly as well.

 

 

Most women I find , if they are even interested in history, tend towards contemporary history, like the history of the 1960's I had to take that class as a history colloqium and the women in it seemed really excited about the material (drugs, sex, crappy hippy music) , but in other history classes I've had the women play with their sidekicks or take meticulous notes and forget it the day after the test.

[Oxy Moronovich]

 

The logic is not hard to break down here.

 

You claim most women only like make-up and clothes shopping.

I said shopping in general. That could mean grocery and furniture shopping as well.

So, the average woman is spending a great deal of time on her appearance, let's say $100 a week and 10 hours of prep time. So, if a woman wants to be MORE attractive than the average woman, she's going to need to spend $200 a week, and 20 hours of prep time.

 

What this means is that even a woman who spends time and money on her appearance is still not going to stand out, because she's spending the same amount of time and money on her appearance as other girls.

There's no way to mathematically calculate physical attractiveness. I don't know where you got the idea that was possible. You seem to overlook what jobaba's original post was about as well as Wolf's post. They are saying that women should get a hobby that men are interested in. However, make sure you're genuinely interested in it and not pretending to be interested in that hobby for male attention. That way you won't need to spend so much time and money on physical appearance.

[Els]

You sound Greek, Russian, or Indian. The average woman in those countries do not spend so much time on their beauty it stops them from having hobbies.

 

What!??! Greece is halfway around the world from the USA?!?!? :lmao::lmao: I'm really not interested in teaching an unpaid geography lesson here, dude. Sorry.

 

By the way, why are you still dodging the question? How can a woman spend a lot of time on television and gossiping but little on hobbies?

 

I'm not answering you because it beats me why some women choose to do that. Personally, I spend most of my free time coding, gaming, and reading. What do you do with yours?

 

The woman I lived with was 19 at the time. Cuter than Scarlett Johansson with naturally orange-blonde hair. Since she was naturally cute, she didn't spend a lot of time on make-up. She only spent 30 minutes on makeup at most and hair. She spent about 30 minutes in the shower, but she didn't need to spend that much. She worked out less than 2 hours each week. She probably spent around 18 hours on herself, considering that she showered twice a day. Even with her job and school she definitely had enough time for hobbies.

 

You mentioned 'immersion in a hobby', not simply 'having a hobby'. Watching TV qualifies as a hobby - but not so much as a passion to immerse in. Given that the woman spends 18 hours a week on her appearance, that is about 2-3 hours a day. The average adult spends 10 hours a day on work including commute and pre-work stuff like breakfast. 8 hours a day is the recommended sleep time. That leaves a person with 3 hours free. What about friends/family/partner time, cooking, eating, errands, chores?

 

Also, a 18 year old may be able to maintain an amazing body without any work, but most women in their late 20s and above need diet, exercise, or both.

 

Your whole premise is that a woman spends too much time trying to look good to develop a hobby.

 

False. Re-read what I said.

 

That is ridiculous. So women have enough time to entertain themselves with TV, gossiping, shopping, and going to clubs and parties but not enough time for hobbies? Silly.

 

TV, shopping, parties, etc are 'casual' stuff that does not require much investment or 'immersion'. It is the difference between a casual gamer and a competitive one.

[Els]

However, make sure you're genuinely interested in it and not pretending to be interested in that hobby for male attention.

 

Wow. Thanks for finally getting the point of my first post.

[Els]

Yea, the clothes haven't helped much. For the women I've managed to be in relationships with, one was before I started dressing well, and the others I could have probably gotten while wearing clothes from Target. Kind of disappointing it hasn't helped. But it's more for me now than anything.

 

 

 

Yea. That is probably not something I would do on my own if I had no trouble getting women. But as they say, I'm trying to maximize the piece of clay they gave me. And my skin ain't great...

 

It's great that you're doing it for you. I don't think anyone should do anything solely to attract the opposite sex, be it hobbies or looking good.

 

I have an inherited skin condition as well, which makes it exceedingly difficult for a woman trying to look good. Perhaps that increases the maintenance that I must do. If it makes you feel better though, I think many women like a man with rough or less-carefully-tended skin.

 

 

The logic is not hard to break down here.

 

You claim most women only like make-up and clothes shopping. So, the average woman is spending a great deal of time on her appearance, let's say $100 a week and 10 hours of prep time. So, if a woman wants to be MORE attractive than the average woman, she's going to need to spend $200 a week, and 20 hours of prep time.

 

What this means is that even a woman who spends time and money on her appearance is still not going to stand out, because she's spending the same amount of time and money on her appearance as other girls.

 

I notice many women in history classes too.

 

Thanks for getting my point. I am sure there are very lucky women who are born beautiful and do not need to treat, blowdry and style their hair, born hairless and do not need to shave, born with amazing skin and do not need to cleanse, tone, exfoliate, moisturise, etc. But I think most women do perform the above.

 

Personally I have noticed that the more deeply engrossed I am in the hobbies I am passionate about, the more I let my appearance slide. I think it's a natural part of balancing one's free time. Men are perhaps luckier in that the average bar for personal beauty maintenance is low enough that they do not necessarily need to juggle the two. However, I daresay that they have their own issues to worry about in the dating department, such as working on their confidence and fear of rejection, and such. Also, many women see beauty routines (shopping etc) as something that they 'get to do', not 'have to do'. Those indeed tend to be the women who look the prettiest and are dressed the best, but also lack 'passion' for other hobbies. I don't think either one is necessarily better than the other - after all, how does a love of gaming truly benefit oneself?

[YaOldBuckaroo]

...learn to play the guitar and play in a band. It won't take you long. If you are just decent looking and a decent player, you'll have guys thinking you're hot.

 

 

I happened across this video and I noticed like 1000+ guys have already commented on how hot this woman is. She's cute but wouldn't have 1000+ guys posting how hot she is if she didn't have a guitar in her hands. And to be honest, she's not even that good of a player. But I think she's HOT too.

 

See ... men, unlike women, think it's really attractive when women can do something that they like to do. For a guy like me who plays guitar, it can elevate a woman who plays from OK to smokin' hot.

 

For women who want to attract more men, it's something I would seriously consider...

 

True. Girl in the video is pretty hot. I find girls playing guitars and other instruments attractive.

[Oxy Moronovich]

What!??! Greece is halfway around the world from the USA?!?!? :lmao::lmao: I'm really not interested in teaching an unpaid geography lesson here, dude. Sorry.

Ok. So you're an Asian woman in New Zealand. First, NZ isn't halfway across the Earth from the U.S. Greece is way further than NZ from the U.S. You're right. You shouldn't be teaching geography lessons. You should be getting them.

 

 

I'm not answering you because it beats me why some women choose to do that. Personally, I spend most of my free time coding, gaming, and reading. What do you do with yours?

As a guy who has lived in and visited in parts of the U.S. and Canada with high Asian populations (sometimes the majority) I can say you're lying when you say Asian women spend so much time on their make-up it stops them from having hobbies.

 

 

You mentioned 'immersion in a hobby', not simply 'having a hobby'. Watching TV qualifies as a hobby - but not so much as a passion to immerse in. Given that the woman spends 18 hours a week on her appearance, that is about 2-3 hours a day. The average adult spends 10 hours a day on work including commute and pre-work stuff like breakfast. 8 hours a day is the recommended sleep time. That leaves a person with 3 hours free. What about friends/family/partner time, cooking, eating, errands, chores?

 

Also, a 18 year old may be able to maintain an amazing body without any work, but most women in their late 20s and above need diet, exercise, or both.

Wait a minute. From past posts, you've admitted to spending little time on your body and dress shabbily. Are you telling me you spend 2-3 hours a day on appearance but still dress shabbily and look average-looking?

 

I admire your mathematics. But it's ridiculous to say women spend too much time on other activities that she doesn't have enough time to immerse herself in a hobby. You're basically saying women have little to no time to entertain themselves. That is false. Women have lots of time to entertain themselves. They have lots of time to immerse themselves in a hobby. They just choose to use their freetime on shallow pursuits like shopping, television, and gossiping.