2sunny Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 As much as you didn't have his truth - you know he lied to get you into a position that would suit his needs. He lies. As much as he told you about his W - it is designed to fit his needs. He lies. As much as he tells you what you need to hear - it suits his needs. He lies. She is what she is. Looks - good or not - she remains his wife... She must suit his needs on some level... Maybe it is her ability to stay with a man who cheats that is appealing to him... Who knows? But it does work for HIM or he would have ended the M long ago. It's theirs... Broken or not - it remains because it works for them.
MissBee Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 I would never call and out someone with intention to hurt either party. Not my thing. I simply wish to end it and him leave me alone. leaving me alone in not contacting or when in contact attempting to place hurt onto me. They have lived in this dysfunction for so long, it seems to be their habit. Obviously, after all these years she fails to place the blame on her husband and it is these bad other women HE CHASES, and claims THEIR marriage is over, actually used the word YUCK, done, have nothing in common, fights all the time, not on same page, and BOTH are completely through with one another and she is done with the marriage just the same as he. This is deceptive in making the other woman comfortable that while he is separated it is a mutual separation. But the truth is he is married and they are not on the same page, then he starts with the truth of the matter, later once in the relationship. I am not the party who needs therapy in this situation, I am the only one in the mess with their eyes wide open. I choose happiness andI believe making the right decision. Um wow....are you serious?! This is one of the most delusional things I've read on LS ever... Seriously..... I have read a lot of ridiculous things and things I just took as trolling and jokes, as they were too absurd to believe....but you're serious about this, you talk about these people in every post you make and list out their problems and say their marriage is your business, you plan his vacations with his wife, you do all this other stuff and then truly believe that he and his wife are the only ones who need therapy. It's unreal to me! But again....I think you are soo far into this fog that you truly can't see how crazy you seem too....anyway, I don't mean to be harsh. I do think you'll eventually get your head right...I would suggest therapy for you as well. If you're perfectly fine then the therapist will let you know and you can go on about your way BUT somehow I think if you told the therapist all you've told us, he or she would have the very same opinions some of us have. And honestly MyApology, saying you deserve better and saying over and over that they have a problem and then listing all the horrible things he has done and pointing out her choice to stay is not fooling anyone...the more you say they have a problem and you don't and you're moving on.....100 times...the more it is not believable and the more fixated you seem on them, as if it were true, you'd not have to say it so much...and frankly it is very delusional that you talk about her CHOICE yet your CHOICE is to be with him too. Do you not see how hypocritical it is??? If you're so much smarter and emotionally healthy than them...how on earth did you end up with him and on LS discussing them? Think again.... I do wish you luck in getting out of this fog and I do hope you will come back and read and laugh at how crazy this all is, once it is in your past.
LadyGrey Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 I do have confidence. Cannot help what I see. This is the last time I will defend myself, I thought she would look exactly opposite of what she did. Does that matter, no not at all. It just perplexed me that is all. What is wrong with having that opinion? I am sure everyone reading has had a similar reaction or opinion of someone like that regardless who it is. I have never used offensive words to describe her, such as fat, ugly, or nasty. But I have sure read both sides OW and MW expressing themselves in that manner. And I have not read them getting as much flack as I am. I do not look at people that way. I only speak from my opinion and was being honest in what I wrote. And again this whole mess began and continued because he presented the situation opposite of which it is. They were both done with the marriage.I did not go into this knowing I was to be the OW. I know it seems harsh, what has been said to you, every poster has had good intent. Some of us have walked in your shoes and given time and a lot of pain have learned hard lessons. Hindsight does make you see things clearly. Some of the posters have walked in the BS shoes, some of the posters are just kind and caring enough to post. We all like to think that people are sincere when they tell us something, you want to think that what your mm told you was true, but chances are he flat out lied or he slanted it in order to get what he wanted from you. Sex, attention, devotion, ego filled, it doesn't matter which it was because it worked. Something inside of you is broken are you would have not given him a moments attention. Emotionally healthy women who have good boundaries do not pay any attention to a mm advances. They shut him down because they know it's too risky and it's an invitation to pain and also they do not want to inflict that pain on another woman. Look within yourself, figure out why you allowed yourself to go there. You can not put it off on him or his wife or his ****ty marriage, the answers are within you. Believe it or not but some of us do care about you, even if you are a stranger.
2sunny Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 I know it seems harsh, what has been said to you, every poster has had good intent. Some of us have walked in your shoes and given time and a lot of pain have learned hard lessons. Hindsight does make you see things clearly. Some of the posters have walked in the BS shoes, some of the posters are just kind and caring enough to post. We all like to think that people are sincere when they tell us something, you want to think that what your mm told you was true, but chances are he flat out lied or he slanted it in order to get what he wanted from you. Sex, attention, devotion, ego filled, it doesn't matter which it was because it worked. Something inside of you is broken are you would have not given him a moments attention. Emotionally healthy women who have good boundaries do not pay any attention to a mm advances. They shut him down because they know it's too risky and it's an invitation to pain and also they do not want to inflict that pain on another woman. Look within yourself, figure out why you allowed yourself to go there. You can not put it off on him or his wife or his ****ty marriage, the answers are within you. Believe it or not but some of us do care about you, even if you are a stranger. This is good! You allowed it. You CAN shut it down - but are you going to? You gonna do it right now... From this moment forward? As long as you keep any time, attention or focus on him or his M... You are allowing him enough power to hold you hostage. How free do you want to be?
Gentlegirl Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 I have to disagree when you say that nobody else gets bashed for what they write. I think all of us here has copped some criticism at one time or another. YOu don't know what it is to get bashed.. the people here have been lovely to you so far. I agree with Hockeyfan that what you wrote about gang rape was at best crazy and tasteless. At its worst, it has offended somebody who actually has been affected by gang rape. It is just ludicrous to use gang rape as a comparison. I am done with giving you anymore advice or supporting you. You don't seem to be reading what people are really saying to you. GROW UP , get some dignity and a bit of class. gg
MissBee Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 I have to disagree when you say that nobody else gets bashed for what they write. I think all of us here has copped some criticism at one time or another. YOu don't know what it is to get bashed.. the people here have been lovely to you so far. I agree with Hockeyfan that what you wrote about gang rape was at best crazy and tasteless. At its worst, it has offended somebody who actually has been affected by gang rape. It is just ludicrous to use gang rape as a comparison. I am done with giving you anymore advice or supporting you. You don't seem to be reading what people are really saying to you. GROW UP , get some dignity and a bit of class. gg Ditto.... In fact if MyAPology has this situation all under control and all everyone is doing is bashing her...I don't see why she came here to begin with. Good luck to you MyApology, as you've succeeded at making a bunch of different people decide to not respond to your thread anymore.
bentnotbroken Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Very true. This is exactly what I am working on. It is easy to be a cheerleader on the outside looking in and say do this and dont do this. It is much more difficult as many know working through it from the inside. I hope nothing else to find myself in the place you mentioned= Zen. I do not wish for demise of their marriage and in all honesty from my heart, I wish nothing but happiness for them. I hope he has the same consideration for me, and does not flaunt his sh*t in my face. I have thought it out and if this is to occur, I need to remove myself from the situation, take a few deep breaths, and pratice avoidance and place him in a folder marked, 'he no longer exists.' Thanks:) Maybe he will have as much consideration for you as he had for her. And flaunt as little shy*t in your face as he did in hers(and her children with you). Sometimes when you help make the mud pies and help throw them, you have to duck because they tend to return to sender.
MissBee Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 Maybe he will have as much consideration for you as he had for her. And flaunt as little shy*t in your face as he did in hers(and her children with you). Sometimes when you help make the mud pies and help throw them, you have to duck because they tend to return to sender. Yea I think MyApology is being outlandish about her request....if he can ask her to plan his vacation with his wife....then I am pretty sure he has no qualms AT ALL flaunting other women in her face and for her to even expect him to have some decency as far as that goes....doesn't make sense.
Lostinlife4now Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 WOW!!!!!! Hold on LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!!!!!!!!! Giving up so easy as not to post anymore to try to help MyApology? No No No, let's not back off so quickly! She needs help and understanding. She just isn't getting it yet. and if we are the people WE ALL CLAIM TO BE, caring and thoughtful and wanting to help then why the hell would we not try and help her again and again until she gets it? ****, if my girlfriends and the great people in my life had given up on me with all the nasty crap I have been through in my life, I WOULD HAVE NO ONE..... Stop everyone, IT IS CHRISTMAS, THE HOLIDAY SEASON, A REASON TO PAY IT FORWARD AND GIVE BACK..... Re-read some of your postings, you all sound like the friggen GRINCH.....EWWWW!!! And I haven't added anything to the post (before anybody gets up in my face for not giving advice, calm down...) it's because you have done a marvelous job my trying to help this poor girl. God Bless......
weedsandposies Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 OP, how are you doing? you haven't updated. although i agree with what seems to be unanimous advice on here, that you need to implement NC, i'll offer you ab alternative. in my own situation i managed an exit from OM. You may need to do the same because it doesn't sound like you have hit the breaking point yet. Date other men casually, while seeing MM less and less. you do need to back off the W. remember you stepped into her life, she doesn't know about you, and can't defend herself. also, looks are the least of what makes a man choose a women to be their wife. this i have learned when seeing gorgeous male friends "settle" for less attractive woman than they're used to. men choose women who make them feel comfort, a place to call home, whatever that may be for them. interesting i was just reading this thread: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t310475/ not saying you need to stop turning heads or anything but just to answer your question of why he is choosing to stay. it could be myriad reasons or just that she is his home it's all a game. from a married person's point of view (myself and other people i know personally who cheat/cheated) we will never leave our spouses. and as many times as i told OM this, he still tried until i had to cut him out of my life.
whichwayisup Posted December 17, 2011 Posted December 17, 2011 That is like comparing cheering a football game to a slaughter fest. But, that is not my concern anymore. I am out and going to leave all of it alone. I am also going to wait on accepting dinner invitations. I want all of this behind me and not have these occasions marked with any touch of a rebound. You truly are fooling yourself and in a total fog. You're so not ready to hear and take in the great advice given to you.. Hopefully soon you'll come back and re read everything, let it sink in, do some thinking and realize that what we're saying DOES make sense and can help you. Until you wake up and let reality smack you in the face - You're stuck in this closed mindset. You really could use therapy to help you sort this out. Saying that MM and his wife need counseling but you don't - sorry - Just shows how unclear you're thinking and processing everything. it's all a game. from a married person's point of view (myself and other people i know personally who cheat/cheated) we will never leave our spouses. and as many times as i told OM this, he still tried until i had to cut him out of my life. Listen to Weeds and apply that logic to your MM.
despicableME Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 All I can say is... WOW! Just... WOW! Something is broken here... and I don't mean a marriage... I mean a certain individual. WOW!
whichwayisup Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 All I can say is... WOW! Just... WOW! Something is broken here... and I don't mean a marriage... I mean a certain individual. WOW! I agree with you. And not malciously, but sadly because the OP really has no idea how unhealthy her choices, thinking process, handling and coping skills truly are, she's even said she isn't the one who needs therapy it's her MM and his wife who needs it. It's total denial and my worry for her is when reality hits her smack in the face one day (and it will) she is going to need TONS of support, online and from her friends, family and yes, even counselling.
Author MyApology Posted December 19, 2011 Author Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) Thanks to all those who gave their advice without placing words or meaning into which I said that did not even register close to which i was implying. No offense to rape victims was meant. I can mention it another way in hopes it does not offend. I was attempting an understanding of not connecting feeling sorry for the OP as I would if it was to just fall in someone's lap. Another way to explain it is if someone marries a man who ended up robbing multiple banks over and over again and doing hardtime, and then the woman after years and years of this decides to have children with the same man, and then continues to play victim, and say oh my can you believe it my husband robbed a bank and i have children, a family now, and he is in jail. Hard to continue to feel for someone who plays a victim without helping themselves for years on end. It makes you question their motives. Although we all have our hang ups and problems, and handle them differently which makes us all unique. Someone asked the question and I answered how I felt with the paragraph above. But again none of this has to do with what is going on with myself and my own feelings and the reasons I got myself in this mess. This is the last post I am even mentioning anything about BS. My questions and perplexities about all aspects of the affair including the BS were fair because this is all very new to me and I was trying to find understanding in it all. Yes, I am still in this fog in which you mention. We survived our first big hump and he did not anger at my emails or texts to him. He made sure to cool down before we spoke to make sure all was okay and I was not going to just run from it all. He was actually extremely understanding and wanted to make sure as we duked it out, that it was in fact not a fight, very important to him that we are not fighting with one another. I was extremely fiesty and strong with my convictions and we hashed them out as 2 individuals should with understanding and mutual respect. Sometimes these type of situations actually make 2 people closer especially when there is great chemistry. He wishes to talk more later to make sure all is okay. Edited December 19, 2011 by MyApology
Owl Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 It sounds to me as though he's a skilled....persuader. He talked you down when you were upset. Very effectively from the sounds of it. That might go a long way to help figuing out why his wife has stayed with him through all of his.....struggles....as well. He knows what to say to get what he wants. Pretty much sums up the whole situation. At this point...you're in it until something changes the situation. What further advice or support can we truly offer you?
Author MyApology Posted December 19, 2011 Author Posted December 19, 2011 (edited) It sounds to me as though he's a skilled....persuader. He talked you down when you were upset. Very effectively from the sounds of it. That might go a long way to help figuing out why his wife has stayed with him through all of his.....struggles....as well. He knows what to say to get what he wants. Pretty much sums up the whole situation. At this point...you're in it until something changes the situation. What further advice or support can we truly offer you? Hi, he never persuades, this I do like about him, he is very upfront about everything as I am. There is no smoozing and oozing BS. He is married and has children and that is one separate chapter and I am another. We are very clear on this. He does not lie and make any promises of anything future wise except planning the year out together, we are in the moment, but a very good moment. It was mostly me being vividly clear on my expectations and him on what he can provide, extremely truthful, no BS promises. I have a hard time explaining the dynamic correctly, but he must care, because I have given him alot of food for thought for a married man, and he did not just hide and desert the situation which would have been a good time to cop out. Without TMI, i almost accidently caused a D-day and it did not even flicker as a concern of his and he did not even mention it or end the r/t because of it, but seemed more worried about us, and I just have to be more careful in the future. I know all this is terrible and no one has an understanding of how incredibly guilty I feel, but the dynamic is too fluid and strong right now. Edited December 19, 2011 by MyApology
whichwayisup Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Be more careful in the future...... Which means? That you are NOT ending the affair at all, in fact, unless I'm misreading it seems you'll just be more careful as to not get caught and have a D-Day. You get what you get, what choices you make, the path you're on, you helped create. NO MORE blaming him and his wife for how you feel and why. You have more power and control than you realize here, but your heart and body are ruling out the mind. He may not be lying to you but you better know that he IS omitted truths from you which is still just as bad. You are letting him manipulate you (selfishly not malciously) though you can't see this, or won't see this.
Author MyApology Posted December 19, 2011 Author Posted December 19, 2011 You have more power and control than you realize here, but your heart and body are ruling out the mind. He may not be lying to you but you better know that he IS omitted truths from you which is still just as bad. This is EXTREMELY insightful and very true. I have control, I know I do!!!! But, where the hell is it?????? It is a, "what the hell am I doing?"
MissBee Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Thanks to all those who gave their advice without placing words or meaning into which I said that did not even register close to which i was implying. No offense to rape victims was meant. I can mention it another way in hopes it does not offend. I was attempting an understanding of not connecting feeling sorry for the OP as I would if it was to just fall in someone's lap. Another way to explain it is if someone marries a man who ended up robbing multiple banks over and over again and doing hardtime, and then the woman after years and years of this decides to have children with the same man, and then continues to play victim, and say oh my can you believe it my husband robbed a bank and i have children, a family now, and he is in jail. Hard to continue to feel for someone who plays a victim without helping themselves for years on end. It makes you question their motives. Although we all have our hang ups and problems, and handle them differently which makes us all unique. Someone asked the question and I answered how I felt with the paragraph above. But again none of this has to do with what is going on with myself and my own feelings and the reasons I got myself in this mess. This is the last post I am even mentioning anything about BS. My questions and perplexities about all aspects of the affair including the BS were fair because this is all very new to me and I was trying to find understanding in it all. Yes, I am still in this fog in which you mention. We survived our first big hump and he did not anger at my emails or texts to him. He made sure to cool down before we spoke to make sure all was okay and I was not going to just run from it all. He was actually extremely understanding and wanted to make sure as we duked it out, that it was in fact not a fight, very important to him that we are not fighting with one another. I was extremely fiesty and strong with my convictions and we hashed them out as 2 individuals should with understanding and mutual respect. Sometimes these type of situations actually make 2 people closer especially when there is great chemistry. He wishes to talk more later to make sure all is okay. What does all being okay mean to you? What does mutual respect mean? So you guys have been brought closer? To what end? What do you want from him? To continue being his other woman indefinitely? What were your convictions if you don't mind sharing? Also....do you realize that for the last few pages you have pointed out that you are going to leave the situation and leave him and his wife to THEIR dysfunction and THEY need therapy and you don't. Which sounded quite like you meant to leave it alone...now it sounds like you're srticking around. What exactly for? Also.....do you realize he is STILL dysfunctional, him, and the wife...and you CANNOT be a part of that triangle and consider yourself non-dysfunctional. Cannot. No way. No matter what feisty things you have said or done...they mean nothing as in the end you're still dating a married man who YOU think needs therapy and who has a dysfunctional relationship with his wife. What does that make you? You're not as strong as you think you are MyApology....as all that you've said and done are contradictory and the entire time in your post you've seemed so happy that he was not upset with you. Survived a hump? Survived it to what end? What is your goal for this relationship? To continue on to have a strong affair? What is it?
Author MyApology Posted December 19, 2011 Author Posted December 19, 2011 What does all being okay mean to you? What does mutual respect mean? So you guys have been brought closer? To what end? What do you want from him? To continue being his other woman indefinitely? What were your convictions if you don't mind sharing? Also....do you realize that for the last few pages you have pointed out that you are going to leave the situation and leave him and his wife to THEIR dysfunction and THEY need therapy and you don't. Which sounded quite like you meant to leave it alone...now it sounds like you're srticking around. What exactly for? Also.....do you realize he is STILL dysfunctional, him, and the wife...and you CANNOT be a part of that triangle and consider yourself non-dysfunctional. Cannot. No way. No matter what feisty things you have said or done...they mean nothing as in the end you're still dating a married man who YOU think needs therapy and who has a dysfunctional relationship with his wife. What does that make you? You're not as strong as you think you are MyApology....as all that you've said and done are contradictory and the entire time in your post you've seemed so happy that he was not upset with you. Survived a hump? Survived it to what end? What is your goal for this relationship? To continue on to have a strong affair? What is it? Too be completely honest, I have no idea what I am doing and why:( None.
whichwayisup Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Too be completely honest, I have no idea what I am doing and why:( None. Thank you for being honest. This is the stuff we've been looking for. No more excuses, no more justifcations, comparisons, put downs to his wife, why's how's of their marriage. What will help you? Counselling. Don't be afraid of it, embrace it. Don't be afraid of feeling pain, of letting go of MM, allowing yourself to grieve the loss so you can let go and heal. I honestly think you let yourself get way too caught up, became addicted to him, the drama an affair can create, intense feelings, the up's and down's.. Now is the time to either let go, get help so you can live life again on a more honest and open path way, or you hang on and accept your role as the OW in his life and be okay with it all. Though I do think that you're getting closer to really ending it but just don't know how and you're letting fears (fear of it really ending, fear of letting go, fear of feeling pain that is FINAL, fear of closure etc) get in the way and that's why you are where you are now. Please consider therapy. EVERYBODY at some point in life seeks counselling, whether it because of an affair, a death in the family, or some other kind of loss.. People go through stuff all throughout their life and it's OK to ask for help, to get help and let a professional guide you back..Someone who can listen open minded and help fix oneself.
truthbetold Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Well it seems many of us here have just wasted our time, as you clearly don't want help and wish to remain in the dysfunction. Just remember as he can so skillfully manipulate you, he most likely does the EXACT SAME thing to his BS regardless what you want to believe to make this whole thing easier to swallow, and no...I'm not a BS I'm stunned really stunned that your update consists of him being able to schmooze you. I hope you do wake up soon, for your sake. It may seem like it's all great in the heat of the moment, but the lows will most likely keep getting lower.
whichwayisup Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Well it seems many of us here have just wasted our time, as you clearly don't want help and wish to remain in the dysfunction. Just remember as he can so skillfully manipulate you, he most likely does the EXACT SAME thing to his BS regardless what you want to believe to make this whole thing easier to swallow, and no...I'm not a BS I'm stunned really stunned that your update consists of him being able to schmooze you. I hope you do wake up soon, for your sake. It may seem like it's all great in the heat of the moment, but the lows will most likely keep getting lower. Read the last few posts from her. She does needs help - She realizes this but is at a stand still, doesn't know what or how to do.. I wouldn't say our words have been wasted.. In time, maybe in a week, maybe tomorrow, she'll leaf through her whole thread again and re-read it all, letting the good advice and thoughts sink in. She wasn't ready to "hear" what's been said. One can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it! She has to be ready to face this, deal with it one way or another. Right now what she's been doing has NOT worked and I think she's finalized realized this.
truthbetold Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 Read the last few posts from her. She does needs help - She realizes this but is at a stand still, doesn't know what or how to do.. I wouldn't say our words have been wasted.. In time, maybe in a week, maybe tomorrow, she'll leaf through her whole thread again and re-read it all, letting the good advice and thoughts sink in. She wasn't ready to "hear" what's been said. One can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink it! She has to be ready to face this, deal with it one way or another. Right now what she's been doing has NOT worked and I think she's finalized realized this. Okay, I see what you mean and I hope you're right. But I thought she was ready to end this from the previous posts, that she was above it and all. I just fear that she feels like he has her under a spell when in his presence and all her fortitude goes out the window. She mentions how hard it is to dismiss the chemistry, so she may not have reached her rock bottom yet. OP, you do sound all over the map, I hope your thoughts become clearer for you.
norajane Posted December 19, 2011 Posted December 19, 2011 He wishes to talk more later to make sure all is okay. OK for him, he means. OK meaning he gets to keep cheating while staying married. OK meaning you aren't going to tell his wife. OK meaning you aren't going to expect anything more of him than you're getting - a hidden relationship that will never lead to anything other than some kind of bitter end when you finally get fed up. I'm sure it's exciting and drama-filled for you to put yourself in the line of fire, but you will eventually get hurt. And I'm sure it's less exciting, even dull, for you to try to date other people in an effort to find one who can and will love you and commit. But a guy who is single CAN be there for you whenever you want, and can make you feel special and loved, and you will be his primary focus instead of some other woman. Train yourself to appreciate that kind of guy instead of hungering for crumbs from some MM.
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