Men "lowering their standards".....

[kaylan]

^Lets not start this going abroad crap.

 

Thats for the losers who give up and need to get 2nd and 3rd world lower class women just to get some tail. Success abroad generally has nothing to do with the man himself, and only to do with that hes an American. Any old bum would do for these women in that case.

 

Guys need to realize that the women arent always the problem. A lot of times it the men themselves.

 

I havent had a glamorous dating life myself, but a rather average one, and have not had all the problems dudes here have. Seems a lot of the complaints from men on this forum come from lack of sex, rather than a lack of a decent woman.

 

Id rather have the nice girlfriend than a bunch of FWBs. That being said, Im 25, been with 7 women, and havent had as much sex as id like in my lifetime because:

 

a) Im more inclined to have relationships and am very picky. I could have had steady sex partners in the past or now but doing that outside of a relationship is usually not healthy because of STDs.

 

b) I refuse to sleep with women who like me more than I like them as I do not lead people on and choose not to hurt anyone. If I really only cared about sex or just having a girlfriend just to have one, Id prolly have almost thrice the sex partners and have had more than 2 serious girlfriends in my life.

 

And before anyone says anything...I am an average bloke....not Rob Pattinson or LL Cool J

Edited December 16, 2011 by kaylan

[Wolf18]

^Lets not start this going abroad crap.

 

Thats for the losers who give up and need to get 2nd and 3rd world lower class women just to get some tail. Success abroad generally has nothing to do with the man himself, and only to do with that hes an American. Any old bum would do for these women in that case.

[/Quote]

 

 

Success at home has nothing to do with the man either. If you don't want women to objectify you...don't date. How is a woman willing to get with you because you're from America (although this is true in many cases, its not in all) any different than a woman who wants you because you're tall or in a band? Very few relationships actually start off where two people are good friends and inner traits become the object of attraction, its usually two people want to **** eachothers bodies or status, then after a while a connection forms after spending enough time together (although even then, a lot of times it doesn't).

 

It also doesn't explain how in countries like Serbia, Portugal, Argentina, etc guys from there who would be invisible in America and Britain have women all over them.

 

Guys need to realize that the women arent always the problem. A lot of times it the men themselves.

 

I havent had a glamorous dating life myself, but a rather average one, and have not had all the problems dudes here have.

[/Quote]

 

Didn't you say you were in a band that was popular enough that it travelled?

 

The problem in our countries is the women around, half of them are fat, and the other half who arent think they're models on that merit alone. So in other words, a woman who would otherwise be in my league in a sane society, has got the pick of the litter here, and trust me she's not picking based on "inner beauty"

Edited December 16, 2011 by Wolf18

[jobaba]

^Lets not start this going abroad crap.

 

Thats for the losers who give up and need to get 2nd and 3rd world lower class women just to get some tail. Success abroad generally has nothing to do with the man himself, and only to do with that hes an American. Any old bum would do for these women in that case.

 

Guys need to realize that the women arent always the problem. A lot of times it the men themselves.

 

Dude,

 

That's a little condescending. You're 25 and have had a successful dating life with little to no hitches if you've slept with 7 women and had a few relationships.

 

You should know that for other guys it's not so easy from hanging out on this message board alone. You do what you have to do to get a woman who fits you best. Everybody wants the path of least resistance.

 

If I could speak the language well enough, I'd have moved back to my parents' native country (1st world East Asian) years ago and tried my luck there.

[kaylan]

Success at home has nothing to do with the man either. If you don't want women to objectify you...don't date. How is a woman willing to get with you because you're from America (although this is true in many cases, its not in all) any different than a woman who wants you because you're tall or in a band? Very few relationships actually start off where two people are good friends and inner traits become the object of attraction, its usually two people want to **** eachothers bodies or status, then after a while a connection forms after spending enough time together (although even then, a lot of times it doesn't).

 

It also doesn't explain how in countries like Serbia, Portugal, Argentina, etc guys from there who would be invisible in America and Britain have women all over them.

 

Didn't you say you were in a band that was popular enough that it travelled?

Yes success has to do with the man. I guess the cry babies on this forum need to actually select better women. Consider this...I am a broke recent graduate whos still figuring out life and I dont have women problems. Girls either like me because of my personality or because they think Im sexy. Sometimes both. That has to do with the man I am. My personality defines me, and I stay in shape and that helps attract women as well.

 

Someone wanting to get with you because of your nationality and because they are prolly seeking a gravy train life, is far different from them being attracted to you for being a certain height(which is an instinctual thing)

 

I am only 5'9 myself....so I am of average height. And I havent played out consistently with a band in a few years. My last band from the spring did play at the end of the semester concert that my housemates and I threw on our property back in April...but I havent done regular shows in a while. So me being a bit of a musician isnt whats going for me either.

 

And about the foreign thing. Rarity makes someone attractive. Thats why Americans can go abroad and be a novelty to men and women. My old french classmates had girls all over them even though theyd be run of the mill lads back in Paris. It is what it is.

 

 

The problem in our countries is the women around, half of them are fat, and the other half who arent think they're models on that merit alone. So in other words, a woman who would otherwise be in my league in a sane society, has got the pick of the litter here, and trust me she's not picking based on "inner beauty"

Dude, tbh...I have a big head myself. I know my value. As a young guy who is smart, educated, in good shape, and musically gifted...I think on those merits I am better than a lot of your run of the mill guys in bars and clubs when I go out.

 

I cant blame attractive women for having big egos when guys are the reason they have big egos. They flock to these women and shun everyone else and then blame the attractive women for having standards they dont fit into. Anyone would be that way if they had many options.

 

I have a few options myself and refuse to lower my standards, even though I have guy friends who tell me to just "get it in" because "sometimes puzzy is puzzy" Sorry not for me it isnt. Id rather beat off than to lower my standards for someone Im not attracted to just to get laid. I know I am better looking than a portion of the males in america since most Americans(male or female) are out of shape and dont take care of themselves. And I will use that to my advantage.

 

And trust me, not everyone is picking on exterior qualities. Dont automatically assume that because some girl denied you a chance to get with her, that she did it because of your looks. Thats not always the case. Sometimes for me, if im in the club or bar, I can get turned off by a chick whos boring or someone I have no chemistry with. The problem is that most guys dont care about a damn thing as long as she looks marginally attractive...in which case theyed sleep with her right then and there.

 

Thats the fvking problem....not women. Lastly, during the summer I an art elective to finish my degree...and one of the hottest girls in the class ended up friending me on face book and asking me to hang out in the mountains through fb chat even before I ever said Hi to her in class.

 

We ended up hooking up that first day and night we hung out...And I didnt stare her down a lot or chase or anything. It just so happened that the one girl I told myself Id wanna talk to in the class came after me after I made myself noticeable. I just did little things in and out of class to make sure she saw me...and I always dressed nice too even though it was an early class.

 

Sometimes guys have to know how to pull a girl in. Sometimes by not showing them attention, thats how you get the girl you want. Role reversal aint so bad, but you have to imagine how women feel to be constantly barraged by dudes coming on to them. Be subtle...because lord knows whenever a chick has put me on the spot, I have wanted her to slow down because I did not feel in control of the flow. However if I was the one rushing things and pushing for a number or a hang out I prolly wouldnt be bothered by what was going on.

Edited December 16, 2011 by kaylan

[Wolf18]

Dude,

 

That's a little condescending. You're 25 and have had a successful dating life with little to no hitches if you've slept with 7 women and had a few relationships.

 

You should know that for other guys it's not so easy from hanging out on this message board alone. You do what you have to do to get a woman who fits you best. Everybody wants the path of least resistance.

 

If I could speak the language well enough, I'd have moved back to my parents' native country (1st world East Asian) years ago and tried my luck there.

 

I'm 22 and have slept with around the same amount of women as Kaylan. All that means is that if i lived in the Balkans I would've slept with about 50 women by now.

 

Dating women in the USA and Britain is kind of like boxing Tyson, only if you win the prize ain't all that great and you're going to be challenged for it every day .

 

Btw, plenty of women in China speak English, China has more English speakers than the USA

[Wolf18]

Yes success has to do with the man. I guess the cry babies on this forum need to actually select better women. Consider this...I am a broke recent graduate whos still figuring out life and I dont have women problems. Girls either like me because of my personality or because they think Im sexy. Sometimes both. That has to do with the man I am. My personality defines me, and I stay in shape and that helps attract women as well.[/Quote]

 

 

Judging from what you type here your personality sounds pretty boring. That's not what's getting you girls, if you even are.

 

Someone wanting to get with you because of your nationality and because they are prolly seeking a gravy train life, is far different from them being attracted to you for being a certain height(which is an instinctual thing)[/Quote]

 

No , it's the same thing. Being attracted to men who appear financially stable is just as instinctual as liking a guy just because he's tall, in fact I would argue the former is far more instinctual for women .

 

I am only 5'9 myself....so I am of average height. And I havent played out consistently with a band in a few years. My last band from the spring did play at the end of the semester concert that my housemates and I threw on our property back in April...but I havent done regular shows in a while. So me being a bit of a musician isnt whats going for me either.

 

[/Quote]

 

I bet you play douchy effete coldplay songs

 

 

And about the foreign thing. Rarity makes someone attractive. Thats why Americans can go abroad and be a novelty to men and women. My old french classmates had girls all over them even though theyd be run of the mill lads back in Paris. It is what it is.

 

[/Quote]

 

Again, why is this any worse than a girl liking you for being tall or being in a band? It's not.

 

Dude, tbh...I have a big head myself. I know my value. As a young guy who is smart, educated, in good shape, and musically gifted...I think on those merits I am better than a lot of your run of the mill guys in bars and clubs when I go out.

 

I cant blame attractive women for having big egos when guys are the reason they have big egos. They flock to these women and shun everyone else and then blame the attractive women for having standards they dont fit into. Anyone would be that way if they had many options.

[/Quote]

 

 

The only thing of what you list that matters to women is that you play guitar. Women don't care about how smart or educated you are, and only care about what shape your in if youre a body builder (good) or obese/rail thin (bad). If you play the guitar, that alone will get you poon, especially if you play the sappy romantic crap, which I have a feeling you do.

 

I have a few options myself and refuse to lower my standards, even though I have guy friends who tell me to just "get it in" because "sometimes puzzy is puzzy" Sorry not for me it isnt. Id rather beat off than to lower my standards for someone Im not attracted to just to get laid. I know I am better looking than a portion of the males in america since most Americans(male or female) are out of shape and dont take care of themselves. And I will use that to my advantage.

[/Quote]

 

So in other words, you're in the same exact situation as me and yet pontificating like you inherited Bin Laden's harem.

 

Thats the fvking problem....not women. Lastly, during the summer I an art elective to finish my degree...and one of the hottest girls in the class ended up friending me on face book and asking me to hang out in the mountains through fb chat even before I ever said Hi to her in class.

 

We ended up hooking up that first day and night we hung out...And I didnt stare her down a lot or chase or anything. It just so happened that the one girl I told myself Id wanna talk to in the class came after me after I made myself noticeable. I just did little things in and out of class to make sure she saw me...and I always dressed nice too even though it was an early class.

 

Sometimes guys have to know how to pull a girl in. Sometimes by not showing them attention, thats how you get the girl you want. Role reversal aint so bad, but you have to imagine how women feel to be constantly barraged by dudes coming on to them. Be subtle...because lord knows whenever a chick has put me on the spot, I have wanted her to slow down because I did not feel in control of the flow. However if I was the one rushing things and pushing for a number or a hang out I prolly wouldnt be bothered by what was going on. [/Quote]

 

 

Sorry, I'm going to say its because you are in a band/play guitar, which means they're objectifying you just like a guy who goes to another country would be objectified.

 

It would be like me harping about all my conquests when I had a sculpted body that I spent hours working on every day, and saying that the girls I ****ed in those days wanted me for my confident personality

[kaylan]

Dude,

 

That's a little condescending. You're 25 and have had a successful dating life with little to no hitches if you've slept with 7 women and had a few relationships.

 

You should know that for other guys it's not so easy from hanging out on this message board alone. You do what you have to do to get a woman who fits you best. Everybody wants the path of least resistance.

 

If I could speak the language well enough, I'd have moved back to my parents' native country (1st world East Asian) years ago and tried my luck there.

I have had some hitches. As I have said, I havent been with many women...and the other opportunities I have had are from women who just wanted to use me for sex, or from girls who i would have been leading on had I done anything. Being used for sex kinda sucks since its happened to me before with girls Ive actually liked, so it hurts a bit. And vice versa, I also dont have it in me to emotionally hurt a girl by leading her on if I only want sex.

 

I just avoid the drama so my dating life is a little behind imo for a 25 year old. I am sorry for being condescending, its just that as I have gotten older and more comfortable in the dating scene I have realized its not as hard as people make it. And I wish people would buck up, drop the "woe is me" act and just get experience and make things happen.

 

Considering the fact that you are Asian, I can say I know you have an uphill battle as a male of your descent in a Western nation. This is entirely to do with stereotypes and what not, ones that continue to be perpetuated by the media. All I can say is that your outer image and personality can overcome this.

 

I am an Afro-American myself who dates everyone. And trust me when I say that black men tend to be on the bottom of most womens dating totem pole. If not just for the stereotypes we face, but also the cultural differences. I just make the most of what I have and of who I am. Some girls like me, some dont...it is what it is. If you can smash stereotypes the way I have, youll do fine.

 

I'm 22 and have slept with around the same amount of women as Kaylan. All that means is that if i lived in the Balkans I would've slept with about 50 women by now.

 

Dating women in the USA and Britain is kind of like boxing Tyson, only if you win the prize ain't all that great and you're going to be challenged for it every day .

 

Btw, plenty of women in China speak English, China has more English speakers than the USA

See, but why does sleeping with 50 women matter? Sure I sometimes feel like I want to be a lady killer and sleep around. But its too risky and wont fill the void in me...because I really am looking for awesome friends and maybe one cool lady to do many fun things with.

 

And I dunno about being challenged everyday after you win the prize. With the right woman, you wont feel like your always fighting to keep her.

[jobaba]

I'm 22 and have slept with around the same amount of women as Kaylan. All that means is that if i lived in the Balkans I would've slept with about 50 women by now.

 

Dating women in the USA and Britain is kind of like boxing Tyson, only if you win the prize ain't all that great and you're going to be challenged for it every day .

 

Btw, plenty of women in China speak English, China has more English speakers than the USA

 

Then, I'm not sure what you really have to be bitter about. I mean some of my friends from college hadn't slept with that many women by 22. And I knew some good looking dudes. They really were. I was MUCH less successful at your age. As in, as close to zero as you can get without being zero. Hope that makes you feel better. You're not really doing bad at all.

 

I'm not Chinese, but English is not as prevalent there as you think.

[kaylan]

Judging from what you type here your personality sounds pretty boring. That's not what's getting you girls, if you even are.

Yes because you can tell my exact personality from internet postings. Trust me dude...no one is that one dimensional. You have no idea what I am like. People tend to like me and flock to me. I guess i have different experiences than some dudes here because I am outgoing.

 

No , it's the same thing. Being attracted to men who appear financially stable is just as instinctual as liking a guy just because he's tall, in fact I would argue the former is far more instinctual for women .

Then tell me why women are attracted to a broke recent graduate. Its because I click with them. Sometimes its just the body too, but most of the time its def not.

 

 

I bet you play douchy effete coldplay songs

Actually I dont. Though guys who play that brand of rock still get a lot of women. I play alternative rock...along the lines of older MCR mixed with the Used and Smashing Pumpkins. I have a lot of influences really.

 

Again, why is this any worse than a girl liking you for being tall or being in a band? It's not.

I say its lame whenever someone likes you for something that has little to do with your personality.

 

The only thing of what you list that matters to women is that you play guitar. Women don't care about how smart or educated you are, and only care about what shape your in if youre a body builder (good) or obese/rail thin (bad). If you play the guitar, that alone will get you poon, especially if you play the sappy romantic crap, which I have a feeling you do.

Actually I play bass. And if you read with any comprehension youd see that I said I havent played out regularly in years. I have played ONE live show in 3 or 4 years. Outside of that, I write in my bedroom or jam with friends here or there.

 

Sure girls might say "oh thats cool that you play music" but thats all thats said about it. Its not a big deal in my life at the moment...though I may start playing live seriously in the near future.

 

And btw, read the lyrics to most pop culture songs...75% or more of them are romantic in some way. Most musicians write about the opposite sex. Love and lust is a strong motivator.

 

 

So in other words, you're in the same exact situation as me and yet pontificating like you inherited Bin Laden's harem.

? Again learn to read. I can get laid if I want without dropping my standards, but one of my previous posts said I dont like just hooking up. Its too risky.

 

I could have even more sex than that if I lower my standards as well, which I will not do.

 

 

 

Sorry, I'm going to say its because you are in a band/play guitar, which means they're objectifying you just like a guy who goes to another country would be objectified.

 

It would be like me harping about all my conquests when I had a sculpted body that I spent hours working on every day, and saying that the girls I ****ed in those days wanted me for my confident personality

Dude I have hooked up with girls are parties and stuff without ever mentioning my musical abilities. I have gotten girls to fall for me and it have NOTHING to do with me playing bass or guitar. It usually has to do with the fact that I am a good guy whos empathetic and fun, and attractive to boot.

 

The thing is I dont have conquests to yak on about dum dum. I have been with only slept with 7 women. Sure aesthetics plays a big role in attraction, but so does personality. Difference is that a lot of guys will overlook personality more so than women just because they want to get it in. A couple of girls who have conquered me havent been super hot but had challenging and fun personalities. They were still attractive though, but what pushed me over the edge was how we clicked.

[kaylan]

Oh please. How about people that had the experience of being hit by trains or falling off cliffs, they needed to be dead? Stuff just !^@# happens.

Dude dont take what I said so literally. I am talking about romantic relationships...not life or death situations. Grow the hell up.

[jobaba]

 

I just avoid the drama so my dating life is a little behind imo for a 25 year old. I am sorry for being condescending, its just that as I have gotten older and more comfortable in the dating scene I have realized its not as hard as people make it. And I wish people would buck up, drop the "woe is me" act and just get experience and make things happen.

 

It's all relative. Like I told Wolf, a lot of my friends hadn't slept with 7 women by 22 or 25. One was this guy I knew who was half white/half black, tall, and looked like a model. He turned down lots of girls though.

 

As for my life, if I really documented in detail my struggles with women through the years on here, I think some of the people here would be like, "Wow. That's rough man. I can really understand why you are bitter."

 

But, we all have to play the cards we're dealt. In the end, I just want to find someone that fits my pretty flexible criteria in a woman. I guess it only matters where we end up, not the journey.

[Wolf18]

Then, I'm not sure what you really have to be bitter about. I mean some of my friends from college hadn't slept with that many women by 22. And I knew some good looking dudes. They really were. I was MUCH less successful at your age. As in, as close to zero as you can get without being zero. Hope that makes you feel better. You're not really doing bad at all.

 

I'm not Chinese, but English is not as prevalent there as you think.

 

 

HEhehe, and I've slept with 7-8 women only if you use the bill clinton definition of sex , but 90% of these experiences were when I was in high school or in the couple of years after. I've had sexual interactions with maybe 3 women in the last 3 years, and had full sex with 1 woman that's pretty bad. I haven't even touched a girl in the last 6 months, and it doesn't look like it's going to get any better even though I'm making an effort.

 

In high school (which was huge by the way, around 2,000 students) I had a reputation for being a "bad boy" with a muscular body. I had 0 respect for women , and was a pretty vile guy all in all to the point where I kind of feel guilty today haha (probably getting my karmic punishment for it today), and while women around the school would say I was a jerk and a cad to eachother, a few cheated on their boyfriends in the locker room with me

 

I used to believe like Kaylan , that it was my personality that got me girls, but it wasn't. I actually found out that I'm not good at picking up chicks at all, and I'm not sure if personality or "game" even matters, I do know it doesn't matter nearly as much as how you look.

[kaylan]

excuse my last response to chesspieceface...wrong thread

[kaylan]

HEhehe, and I've slept with 7-8 women only if you use the bill clinton definition of sex , but 90% of these experiences were when I was in high school or in the couple of years after. I've had sexual interactions with maybe 3 women in the last 3 years, and had full sex with 1 woman that's pretty bad. I haven't even touched a girl in the last 6 months, and it doesn't look like it's going to get any better even though I'm making an effort.

 

In high school (which was huge by the way, around 2,000 students) I had a reputation for being a "bad boy" with a muscular body. I had 0 respect for women , and was a pretty vile guy all in all to the point where I kind of feel guilty today haha (probably getting my karmic punishment for it today), and while women around the school would say I was a jerk and a cad to eachother, a few cheated on their boyfriends in the locker room with me

 

I used to believe like Kaylan , that it was my personality that got me girls, but it wasn't. I actually found out that I'm not good at picking up chicks at all, and I'm not sure if personality or "game" even matters, I do know it doesn't matter nearly as much as how you look.

So youve only had intercourse with one woman ever?

 

Meh I dont think its a big deal. It all depends on what you want out of your dating life though.

[Wolf18]

So youve only had intercourse with one woman ever?

 

Meh I dont think its a big deal. It all depends on what you want out of your dating life though.

 

That's not what I said.

 

I don't consider women who I have digitally penetrated or performed fellatio on me as having sex with them was what I meant. I only had actual sex with 1 woman in the last 3 years, but with somewhere around 8 (don't quite remember lol) in my life .

 

This is what makes me the most cynical mofo on this forum. A guy whose alwyas had steady success with women, or never had any succcess, can convince himself that it's his personaltiy and attitude that gets him or doesn't get him girls, but a guy whose gone from 1 extreme to the other without any notable changes in areas that matter (unless they are changes for the better, like now I'm open and willing to treating a girl well and respectfully) except that I don't have the pseudo-steroids ripped look anymore (although I'm still in good shape), well it checkers your opinion of womankind rather dramatically.

[kaylan]

People changed...and maybe you did...

 

The easiest answers are usually right in front of your face. I find it hard to believe that a decent looking guy who has success in high school and right after high school, all of a sudden becomes a noob with women unless he changed something about himself.

 

I was a noob until I was 18. I then changed my style, grew as a person, and starting working out more. Once I really came into my own and knew who I was....things turned around. I still carry my goofy attitude from highschool. I just grew up, learned how to dress, and learned how to relate to women.

 

Simple.

[Wolf18]

People changed...and maybe you did...

 

The easiest answers are usually right in front of your face. I find it hard to believe that a decent looking guy who has success in high school and right after high school, all of a sudden becomes a noob with women unless he changed something about himself.

 

I was a noob until I was 18. I then changed my style, grew as a person, and starting working out more. Once I really came into my own and knew who I was....things turned around. I still carry my goofy attitude from highschool. I just grew up, learned how to dress, and learned how to relate to women.

 

Simple.

 

Only things that changed is now I have a somewhat defined 4 pack , instead of a chiseled 6 pack and my shoulders are more narrow.

 

Oh yeah, and now I don't have the flagrant disregard for women and their feelings I once did and am actually open to let women into my heart. All in vain of course, women would rather **** a guy with some stupid cosmetic gimmick that hates them over dating an alright looking guy who is open to loving them, no matter what they say.

 

When you're in your 20's , there's also way more compettition for women. In high school , most guys in their 20's and 30's aren't going after 15-16 year old girls like say, a guy in junior year would. But once women turn 18, or worse, 21, they become mini-celebrities every friday night.

[TheBigQuestion]

Proof that Wolf is out of touch:

 

He honestly thinks that being in a band that isn't rich or famous can get you chicks, or at least a greater amount of them than if you didn't. As a guitarist/bass player for the past 14 years, all I can do is chuckle.

[RecordProducer]

The problem is too many think "coming down to reality" means "lowering your standards".

 

This goes for men and women. In my past, I'd be overlooking average looking girls and only checking out very hot women. The problem with me though was that I didn't think deeply enough on IF those hot women really wanted my bland average self.

 

So I ended up getting friendzoned a lot, rejected a lot, etc. I had a couple of hippos in my past look my way, but I wasn't attracted to them...but I can't say I had no options.

 

I also would not bother with single moms, and even would want a woman who had a college degree and career. Again, if those women are not into someone like me, then obviously I'm chasing impossible standards.

 

"Coming down to reality" means that I OPENED UP MY HORIZONS. I stopped seeing single moms as "no way" and instead looked to each one of them on a case by case basis. I stopped thinking I could snag some 9 or 10 in a tight mini-dress dancing at the clubs...and went for average women...even finding them more genuine and cooler than the shallow hotties.

 

The problem is some would claim I settled...even a few think I settled on my fiance...but it's amazing how those few people are alone, and can't find anyone. Mainly because their standard would never look their way.

 

The only thing I ever tell Average Joes and "nice guys" is to make sure you didn't set the bar too high. Yes, a hot girl with a size 2 body and big boobs is always appealing...but pointless if women like that will never be into you. What about the size 6 or 8 body who doesn't look like a "before" photo for Jenny Craig? How about the girl who doesn't have a flawless face and hair? She might have a big nose.

 

 

Now...I'm sure you'll then say "what about the women? why can't they lower their standards?"

 

My answer is they should "come down to reality" if their standards aren't gaining them options. Look at the ones who are constantly single and/or getting into flings with jerks they hope to tame into husbands. This is the price they pay for keeping the bar too high. I've seen guys who bang the hot cocktail waitress and toy with her until they meet the hot-looking educated woman with the brains and body...and then the cocktail waitress wonders why she's not "marriage worthy" in the eyes of these guys.

 

The answer is she set the bar too high.

 

Same thing with the nice guys.

One of the best posts in the history of Loveshack!

 

The sad thing is that people lower their standards in the areas that are easier for them to find. E.g. a smart, educated guy could easily find another smart, educated woman. But he also wants her to be a 9 or 10 - and let's say he's a 4 or 5. So, finding a hot woman now becomes an obsession, a challenge.

 

So, they lower their criteria - instead of in the looks department - in the brains department. But that's not enough for a hot woman, so they'll lower the criteria even more: now the girl is complete trash and gold digger. But she's hot. And he appears as the ladies' man who has lots of success with women because he presents himself as the generous, sweet Prince Charming who's luckier than the rest of the guys.

 

You want a hot woman? There's plenty of escort services out there. Plenty of gold diggers. And if you don't have money, you still have your US passport, right? You can order yourself a barely legal hottie from any country. And she won't nag at you cuz she doesn't speak English. And you can get a replacement every three years.

[counterman]

The thing is I don't want a 'hot' girl, I want a girl who I am attracted to and who is attracted to me. Whether she it hot or not to others does not matter to me. I realise that all the girls that have shown interest in me over the last few years, I was never attracted to. When I showed disinterest, they tried even harder. The girls I were attracted to were only slightly or never interested in me. Whatever I do, I can't bring myself to date a girl I don't find physically attractive. I've thought about it and I just can't bring myself to do it. So, I don't think I have to lower anything... it's just about consistently asking girls out and dating, rather than doing here and there.

[LZ2000]

My ex girlfriend doesn't have the looks of a beautiful model, but I loved her for who she is.

 

Turned out that I loved her for who she pretended to be.

[YaOldBuckaroo]

One of my friends had an old book called "How To Be The Jerk Women Love". And one of the lines in that book struck a chord with me:

 

 

 

 

Now, I don't want to dip too deep into the "nice guy" rhetoric, but this phenomenon is all too clear for me. As always, I keep it unbiased and try not to apply this to myself as there are clear differences between what I am and how I do things compared to other men. When I thought about men lowering their standards, I didn't interpret this as solely dating a woman that they were unattracted to, even though a lot of these guys do this.

 

But in fact, I began to think of all the things that some of these guys put up with from women (I know men are bad to women too, but thats for another thread), and I really thought to myself, could I really put up with that, no matter how desperate I was?? No way, I thought. But why would other men, men I thought had even more character than me.

 

So, I know that people do downplay this stuff, but what is your take? Should these men really lower their standards? Should they date women they are not attracted to? I wouldn't personally, but your thoughts??

 

Also what about alternatives? Why shouldn't they watch porn? What about escorts? Sex therapy/surrogacy?? Why are they so looked down upon as options?

 

In regards to gaining confidence, where do you turn? I use my own personal analysis, I lift some tips from dating/seduction people such as Carlos Xuma, and every now and then some PUA stuff is useful. What would you suggest are their options???

 

Try not to be inflammatory people

 

Hey buddy

 

Dating women you aren't attracted to serves as great practice for refining your skills, which you can use for dating attractive women. It's like having practice sessions - you don't care if you win or lose, so long as your game is improved.

 

As for confidence, I did a lot of things to boost that, such as accepting my flaws, and confronting whatever it is that makes me shy.

 

Here's a helpful article with tips on how to beat shyness:

 

http://www.blackbeltseduction.com/blog/archives/471

 

Max

[mammamia1]

in America the men are always better looking than women in couples (unless the man has a lot of money), men seem to put in as much effort as women into their appearance, and quite a bit more effort into building their status/money. Yet if you look at couples from places like Serbia or Bulgaria ( a quick facebook search, trust me) you'll see these gorgeous and intelligent women who cook and clean dating some guy who drinks all his money away, is missing teeth and wears those tacky striped Adidas sweatpants everywhere, a lot of times the men even cheat

 

I disagree. I always think European guys have much better sense of fashion and take better care of themselves, compared with American. Maybe in US, there're way too many overweight, sloppy people, both men and women?

Anyone from Europe can comment on this?

[ThaWholigan]

I disagree. I always think European guys have much better sense of fashion and take better care of themselves, compared with American. Maybe in US, there're way too many overweight, sloppy people, both men and women?

Anyone from Europe can comment on this?

 

Black man from London here. There's an obesity epidemic here too. I can't speak for other nations in Europe but there's a lot of fat people in England now. There's a lot of overweight people full stop.

 

I can't wait till I have enough money to get onto a proper fitness/nutrition regime

[RecordProducer]

Anyone from Europe can comment on this?

No, it's not true. But sounded funny.

 

The point is partially true though in that in Europe you will rarely see a guy who looks normal and a woman who looks like a school bus (no offense to school buses though, they're cute).