GoodOnPaper Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 *In fact, it's a big reason why I've started avoiding "nice guys".... Nice guys are so convinced hot girls won't ever go for them, that they date the first woman who is nice to them (and MIGHT, ya know, actually like them) even if HE doesn't like HER. So if he dates her while still drooling/dreaming of the hot girls he's missing out on, while at the same time making the girlfriend prove she's not dating HIM out of desperation. Nice Guys are, frankly, a romantic black hole. Interesting . . . players date and sleep with hundreds of women that they don't necessarily like that much, yet there isn't this kind of contempt for them. I agree that it's highly rude to be dating someone while giving the impression that you'd rather be with someone "hotter", but in general, what's wrong with "nice guys" trying to gain some dating experience?
verhrzn Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Interesting . . . players date and sleep with hundreds of women that they don't necessarily like that much, yet there isn't this kind of contempt for them. I agree that it's highly rude to be dating someone while giving the impression that you'd rather be with someone "hotter", but in general, what's wrong with "nice guys" trying to gain some dating experience? Who says there isn't contempt for players? I wouldn't go for those guys either. The only difference is that a lot of women are naive, and don't recognize players... Players put on a good game, they excel at attraction manipulation, so they get girls. But if the girls were AWARE of the manipulation (AKA, if a player told a girl flat out," Yeah I'm just using you for sex, I think you have an awful personality and I'll get sick of you after the fourth hookup") women wouldn't be so eager to roll in the hay with them. In other words, there's the same contempt for players and "nice guys," "nice guys" are just more obvious about their attitudes ("I'm desperate") and so the contempt is more obvious. What's wrong with "nice guys trying to earn dating experience" is I don't really feel like being a lab rat. Even casual dating can be an emotionally exhausting and self-esteem pummeling experience... I do not, under any terms, want to put myself through that for a guy who isn't worth it, and a guy "using" me for get experience even though he doesn't really like me is no better than a player "using" me for sexual experience.
ThaWholigan Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 If I were he, I would've used the endless hours of whining to become good at music or at sports to gain the necessary cash to bang the thin females. (Agreed) Beggars can't be picky. (I suppose not, but then again, I don't beg no matter the situation so I wouldn't know) Self-defeating is fun to behold. (I dunno, It's actually quite painful to watch, but that's just what I'm like, I like to help people if I can rather than laugh at their pain, even if it's self-inflicted to a large degree) It'd be realistic. (Realistic is subjective. You're basically saying that his reality should be to end up with an unattractive woman who he would be unsatisfied with and thus would manifest into a terrible relationship where neither party is happy and he is stuck. I would rather not encourage that for him. He has to take the necessary steps to make himself attractive to the kind of woman he wants. He does strike me as a very self-defeatist person though, so likely he won't. Maybe you are right, maybe that is his reality.......)
GoodOnPaper Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 and a guy "using" me for get experience even though he doesn't really like me is no better than a player "using" me for sexual experience. I don't think nice-guy "using" is nearly as intentional as it seems to be perceived -- although maybe my experience isn't typical. When you are really bad at attracting women, it's easy to stop focusing on what you want and simply start looking for any sign of reciprocated interest. If and when I saw that, I'd try to make a go with the woman -- if lightning struck and she actually went out with me, I was always willing and prepared to proceed down the relationship path if things progressed. When things didn't work out, I could look back and see that I may not have liked the woman as much as I thought I did, but there was never intentional "using".
Elysian Powder Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 (Realistic is subjective. You're basically saying that his reality should be to end up with an unattractive woman who he would be unsatisfied with and thus would manifest into a terrible relationship where neither party is happy and he is stuck. I would rather not encourage that for him. He has to take the necessary steps to make himself attractive to the kind of woman he wants. He does strike me as a very self-defeatist person though, so likely he won't. Maybe you are right, maybe that is his reality.......) He's an unattractive male; a fat woman is his proper match. what he wants doesn't matter.
ThaWholigan Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Interesting . . . players date and sleep with hundreds of women that they don't necessarily like that much, yet there isn't this kind of contempt for them. I agree that it's highly rude to be dating someone while giving the impression that you'd rather be with someone "hotter", but in general, what's wrong with "nice guys" trying to gain some dating experience? She's not wrong though. I suspect this may be Somedude's problem. It's obvious he wants intimacy and is likely to become attached to a woman who gives him any kind of time, which is why (as he posted) he nearly ended up with a woman he had actually had no attraction for because he just wanted intimacy. Nice guys never learn to find peace with themselves and their desires, that's why their desperation consumes them. There are many things that they can do to work themselves into a place where they are confident men with ambitions, personal authority and the ability to attract the kind of quality women that they wish to be with. And this is the same for women too. A lot of women who aren't conventionally beautiful still attract all kinds of men, not always just because they are women, but because their attitude towards life and the character traits that compliment their physicality and femininity make them appear really beautiful. It's not beyond anyone, I'd rather people have this mindset than wallowing and calling themselves ugly and complaining about stuff. Raise the point, talk about it, but leave it at that, try and uplift yourself.
ThaWholigan Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 (edited) He's an unattractive male; a fat woman is his proper match. what he wants doesn't matter. Actually it does. Otherwise he will always be unhappy. If he lives his life surrounding himself with things and people he isn't satisfied with, he will continue to be unhappy. I would rather not be so, I would rather improve myself so I can be happy. Admittedly, he doesn't seem to think that this will help him, so he doesn't improve himself at all, and stays the way he is. I suppose the way you have chastised him is deserved, as much as it pains me to say it. Well, I've met (somewhat) fat women I thought were hot so how fat they were would be my first concern. If they were super obese, thats a problem. If they were thick, chubby etc, no biggy. Like Italia Blue (google) She wasn't fat, but she was bigger than the usual conventional standard, and I still thought she was hot. The reason he [somedude81] is unattractive is because he thinks he is. Obviously people like you don't help , but the truth is, what you say about him actually matters much less than what he wants; and the problem with that is that he is the one telling himself that he is unattractive, and won't even do anything to improve himself. You are an interesting guy, you remind me of one of my old friends. What are your views on the idea of self-improvement? I'm gonna level with you, you appeal to the cynic in me so I will say without BS, it is understandable that you think low of relationships, sometimes I ask myself if that is what I really want, but at the same time, I like the idea of family and would like to have children, especially to have a son who will outshine me one day. Are you at all open to a relationship with a woman? I doubt that all women are unworthy of such in your eyes, or am I wrong?? Edited December 15, 2011 by ThaWholigan
GoodOnPaper Posted December 16, 2011 Posted December 16, 2011 Nice guys never learn to find peace with themselves and their desires, that's why their desperation consumes them. Isn't that the truth . . . I suspect this may be Somedude's problem. It's obvious he wants intimacy and is likely to become attached to a woman who gives him any kind of time, which is why (as he posted) he nearly ended up with a woman he had actually had no attraction for because he just wanted intimacy. Of course. Intimacy = acceptance and the more uninhibited the intimacy is, the greater the acceptance. On the other side, being viewed as non-sexual is the greatest insult ever. And it seems that the messages women send to men are completely on one side or the other. If there was some sort of middle-ground message, like I'm-not-into-you-but-I-can-see-how-some-women-would-be, we "nice guys" would find it easier to relax.
ThaWholigan Posted December 16, 2011 Posted December 16, 2011 Isn't that the truth . . . Of course. Intimacy = acceptance and the more uninhibited the intimacy is, the greater the acceptance. On the other side, being viewed as non-sexual is the greatest insult ever. And it seems that the messages women send to men are completely on one side or the other. If there was some sort of middle-ground message, like I'm-not-into-you-but-I-can-see-how-some-women-would-be, we "nice guys" would find it easier to relax. Before we can relax, we have to step out of our own heads and actually pay attention to the world around us. Understand things, especially how attraction works, and it will all make sense.
Els Posted December 16, 2011 Posted December 16, 2011 ...Then men should probably start shaving their legs and wearing heels. In all seriousness, I have actually witnessed happy couples who admit that the woman made the first move. It works for some people, so why not? A word of caution is that the pursuer, IMO, tends to be the one who is naturally more aggressive and takes the lead in the R. That suits some men fine, and works out great for them. However, my observation is that the majority of men enjoy feminine, soft-spoken and gentle women, and also wish to take the lead in their R. In that case, that preference would be at odds with a woman who asks men out.
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