appletini Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 I've been seeing the same guy for a couple months now, and we're starting to get more serious. While he's been pushing for an exclusive relationship more than I have, I've been open to the idea. He's a genuinely nice person, attractive, funny, accomplished, and cares a lot about me (maybe too much?). The catch: when he's drunk, he's seriously weird. As background, we're both in our early 20's, a year out of college, and our friends are all part of that work hard/play hard mentality. By no means do I think he has an alcohol problem, nor do I think it's impacting his life in any other way - like I said, he's very accomplished, he has lots of goals and a bright future. But I can't stand the way he behaves when he's had one too many. We've all had boyfriends, especially in college, who get rowdy or sloppy or goofy when drunk. Maybe we get that way ourselves. But this guy gets extremely touchy, with me and other people (guys, girls, whatever), and, oddly, very silent. So not only is he unable to communicate at all, but he starts groping me nonstop. It's not super-sexual, but it's irritating. I'm okay with a hand on the back, a light kiss, or a touch now and then when out, but this level of touching & grabbing is uncomfortable. The problem is that that when I tell him this, he pouts for a second, backs off, and then starts right back up again. I told him no at least 3 times and he continued, to the point where I had to leave and go home. This sounds weird, but it would almost be better if he was flirty and chatty while doing this - at least then we could have some banter and I could drive home the point that he needs to keep his hands to himself. But instead he's just dead silent - hands going everywhere. Honestly? I find it creepy. I told him this when we were both sober & he was extremely apologetic, but I'm concerned that this isn't going to change. Am I being unreasonable, or is this a problem?
Standard-Fare Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 Obviously, it's a problem, but maybe not dealbreaker level just yet. You've addressed it and now you need to see if it continues. I think if it does keep up, you have the right to be like, "This bothers me enough that I'm not sure I can continue here" so he gets that true wake-up call.
oldguy Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 I've been seeing the same guy for a couple months now, and we're starting to get more serious. While he's been pushing for an exclusive relationship more than I have, I've been open to the idea. He's a genuinely nice person, attractive, funny, accomplished, and cares a lot about me (maybe too much?). The catch: when he's drunk, he's seriously weird. As background, we're both in our early 20's, a year out of college, and our friends are all part of that work hard/play hard mentality. By no means do I think he has an alcohol problem, nor do I think it's impacting his life in any other way - like I said, he's very accomplished, he has lots of goals and a bright future. But I can't stand the way he behaves when he's had one too many. We've all had boyfriends, especially in college, who get rowdy or sloppy or goofy when drunk. Maybe we get that way ourselves. But this guy gets extremely touchy, with me and other people (guys, girls, whatever), and, oddly, very silent. So not only is he unable to communicate at all, but he starts groping me nonstop. It's not super-sexual, but it's irritating. I'm okay with a hand on the back, a light kiss, or a touch now and then when out, but this level of touching & grabbing is uncomfortable. The problem is that that when I tell him this, he pouts for a second, backs off, and then starts right back up again. I told him no at least 3 times and he continued, to the point where I had to leave and go home. This sounds weird, but it would almost be better if he was flirty and chatty while doing this - at least then we could have some banter and I could drive home the point that he needs to keep his hands to himself. But instead he's just dead silent - hands going everywhere. Honestly? I find it creepy. I told him this when we were both sober & he was extremely apologetic, but I'm concerned that this isn't going to change. Am I being unreasonable, or is this a problem? Alcoholic or not, it doesn't sound like drinking suits him. This is actually one of many signs of alcoholism. We all have this vision of what an alcoholic is but whether he is or not I would suggest he doesn't drink anymore. I know a lot of alcoholics who don't drink & have more fun then they ever did when they where wasted. And if he can't do that than he probably likes his booze more than he likes you anyway.
Author appletini Posted December 12, 2011 Author Posted December 12, 2011 Thanks. Yeah, because I've had some other boundary issues with him, I'm deciding if it's worth giving him another chance... but yes you're right, it has been addressed and maybe out of fairness I should see if it does continue before I make a decision. As far as alcoholism, I'm not ruling it out completely I guess - I have a number of friends & relatives with it and it manifested itself in very different ways, like you said - but I don't feel at this stage I can suggest that he stop completely. As much as I need him to respect my boundaries, I don't want to be controlling. He works 90-hour weeks and has a lot of friends who like to go out, so it's unlikely that he would stop completely. It's not a matter of liking booze more than me, it's a matter of lifestyle, friends' lifestyles, etc. If he asked me to stop going out with my friends (or to stop drinking completely), that would be a deal breaker for me, and I don't even like to drink that much.
oldguy Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 I realize it is a lifestyle issue particularly more in some areas than others. The reason I mentioned alcoholics that no longer drink but still go out & enjoy themselves, almost always places that serve alcohol, is because that too is a lifestyle they enjoy. I'm one of those people & I'm a blast
Jynxx Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 Alcoholic or not, it doesn't sound like drinking suits him. This is actually one of many signs of alcoholism. We all have this vision of what an alcoholic is but whether he is or not I would suggest he doesn't drink anymore. I know a lot of alcoholics who don't drink & have more fun then they ever did when they where wasted. And if he can't do that than he probably likes his booze more than he likes you anyway. Wow, you think someone should stop drinking just because some people around him see "one of the many signs of alcoholism" in him? Then I guess 90% of the people shouldn't ever drink.
GivenUp0083 Posted December 12, 2011 Posted December 12, 2011 You've addressed it, you communicated to him about it, now give him a chance to fix it. Why would you bring it up to him as a problem if you're going to dump him because of it anyway? It's like bringing a car to an auto shop for a tune up right before you junk it.
Author appletini Posted December 12, 2011 Author Posted December 12, 2011 Because the last conversation wasn't so much "we need to discuss some issues and how to fix them" but rather: Him: Why did you leave upset last night? Me: Bla bla bla. Him: Sorry. Is everything fine now? Me: I'm not sure, let's chat later. Ominous? Maybe. But it gives me the option to end it now rather than string him along until I get annoyed again.
oldguy Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Wow, you think someone should stop drinking just because some people around him see "one of the many signs of alcoholism" in him? Then I guess 90% of the people shouldn't ever drink. People with addiction problems will rarely admit it even if they are aware of it. One sign is if you put booze before more relevant things, like relationships. Even if he isn't an alcoholic, if his booze is more important than her, she needs to know it. I don't know, or particularly care if he's an alcoholic but if he's an ars when he drinks, especially to his gf, then that's one more reason to ask him to quit. I guess I could have been more hard core & told her what I would do, at that is dump the looser.
oldguy Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Wow, you think someone should stop drinking just because some people around him see "one of the many signs of alcoholism" in him? Then I guess 90% of the people shouldn't ever drink. People with addiction problems will rarely admit it even if they are aware of it. One sign is if you put booze before more relevant things, like relationships. Even if he isn't an alcoholic, if his booze is more important than her, she needs to know it. I don't know, or particularly care if he's an alcoholic but if he's an ars when he drinks, especially to his gf, then that's one more reason to ask him to quit. I guess I could have been more hard core & told her what I would do, and that is dump the looser.
Ninjainpajamas Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 Maybe he just doesn't see how big of an issue it is, or he thinks he can handle his liquor but in the moment he over does it. I would tape record him while he is drunk, and then show it to him later after his is sober. If that doesn't make him want to change then nothing likely will since you communicated it. He's still young and should enjoy partying, but unless you don't want to be around him in these moments (which I may consider If i was you and refuse to) then I think this is a guy who can get progressively worse. This might be "cool" in your 20's but If he doesn't recognize this problem he's probably going to get into trouble...like accidentally touch another guys girlfriend the wrong way or even worse the wrong place and someone like me knocks his teeth out as I don't take kindly to drunkin gropers.
dasein Posted December 15, 2011 Posted December 15, 2011 It's a fact of our culture that people use alcohol to let off steam after the type of overwork most corporate entry level jobs entail. This is a dynamic that many outgrow, but not usually as early as your age. That overwork is the primary engine that funds our magnificently overlarge bureaucracy. IMO, if "work hard play hard" weren't available to citizens, the bureaucracy wouldn't exist to the extent it does, nor would it intrude in our lives to the extent it does. In the U.S., we have one of the most stressful, overworked societies in the world that condones all manner of legal substances to dull and self-medicate stress. Then on the other hand we have a bureaucratic monster of a government-"health"-law enforcement industrial complex that needs a constant stream of new clients in its odious system to justify its existence and continuing burgeoning growth. That "industry," for which we all overypay, is all too happy to tell us that we are alcoholics "if you have ever passed out in your life from using alcohol," "if you get drunk more than twice a year," and other blatantly self-serving definitions of alcoholism. This massive industry is one of the most damaging and costly in society, simultaneously one of the least effective in achieving its goals, and of course it's a wink wink nudge nudge type of thievery, as the "industry" certainly doesn't complain about the excess tax revenues it sucks up from all the overwork of the self-medicated. That industry has also leveled a hypocritical standard of driving impairment and absurd penalties for drug possession that costs the country billions every year while accomplishing little other than more revenue for the industry's machinery. The hypocrisy continues because people are cowed into silence. Who after all wants to be branded as a supporter of "drunk driving" or drug abuse? But we all learned that prohibition doesn't work, or did we really? The purpose of the above rant and windup is to warn you about certain sources and opinions you may get about alcoholism and alcohol use "out there." Would suggest steering clear of any advice sources that are even tangentially involved with the above identified industry, as they will most certainly portray your BF's behavior in a slanted, ridiculous way and could unduly influence your opinion of him based on their self-serving defintions and standards. To the topic and advice, no you aren't overreacting. No one likes to be groped and handled by people drinking and partying. I don't like it when women do it myself. However, you have to weigh your own actions here. You are drinking with him, right? You are enjoying certain aspects of the partying lifestyle or not? You are appreciative of a man who works hard enough and is driven enough to need to let off steam and "play hard?" Do you yourself need to let off steam? If the answer to these is "no" then you need to reevaluate your relationship and whether the relationship has the staying power through compatibility to continue it. If the answer to these is "yes," perhaps judging him, though not necessarily overreaction, is not the right course. If his actions while drinking were violent, disruptive or unduly risk-taking, that would be a dealbreaker for me in your shoes, but only you have seen the actual behavior to know whether it qualifies. Do others complain about him? How does his behavior stack up versus the partying behavior of your social group? To reiterate, the "industry" is waiting to tell you that your BF is a wreck waiting to happen, it wants that actually, just more fresh meat for the system. Don't listen to that. Decide your own preferences, but know that if it is a dealbreaker for you, you may need to adjust your own social behaviors to find a more compatible BF. Good luck.
Feanor Posted December 16, 2011 Posted December 16, 2011 Maybe just do some sober activities until you get to know him better?
norajane Posted December 16, 2011 Posted December 16, 2011 Maybe he just doesn't see how big of an issue it is, or he thinks he can handle his liquor but in the moment he over does it. I would tape record him while he is drunk, and then show it to him later after his is sober. If that doesn't make him want to change then nothing likely will since you communicated it. I agree - use your cell phone and get video of him during a drinking night and show him when he's sober. He can learn to stop after x number of drinks so he doesn't get that grabby.
oldguy Posted December 16, 2011 Posted December 16, 2011 I have something interesting to add to this discussion, unfortunately after multiple attempts it's clear that I can't write it without it being taken down Umm, Jynxx? you only made one post in this thread & I simply responded with my opinion. Or are you talking about something else???
dispatch3d Posted December 16, 2011 Posted December 16, 2011 (edited) You really quit relationships the first time an issue comes up? Kinda scary. Anyhow, I used to have this issue embarassingly enough. It kinda stemmed from a lack of confidence/knowledge of girls and how to properly flirt or interact. My drunken brain told me I was suave, the girls had given me the yes signals, etc. etc. My sober friends constant mockery of my behaviour told me something different however - that everyone hated me and I should probably stop doing it. It definitely wasn't intentional, because when I was told multiple times how the girls felt I felt terrible every time and definitely immediately started doing things to make sure I was never that way. To this day I refuse to grind any girl drunk regardless of whether she "likes" me or doesn't. I just hate the risk involved. Wouldn't do it! I was 19 then and I'm 26 now. If you accused me of acting like this I think you would get an argument more than anything else. It's a changable behaviour, not anything to do with an alochol problem. Edited December 16, 2011 by dispatch3d
ditzchic Posted December 16, 2011 Posted December 16, 2011 My last ex would do this. Always grabbing my chest in front of groups of people and his friends when drunk. It was creepy and I found it extremely disrespectful. Especially because he wasn't into any kind of kissing PDAs. Anything more than a peck on the lips from me and he would get self-conscious and weird. I think it stems from low self-esteem and him trying to seem "smooth". But essentially, it's objectifying! He could grab me like a piece of meat but I couldn' give him a for real kiss? Screw that! I don't know if you should just walk away from the guy. I would talk about it with him again. Let him know that you feel disrespected and you really mean it that he has to work on this. If he doesn't, then it's time to walk.
oldguy Posted December 18, 2011 Posted December 18, 2011 You really quit relationships the first time an issue comes up? Kinda scary. I would think it is scarier to enter further into a relationship where the other person IS doing something extremely objectionable to you. It sounds like she talked to him about it and it hasn't helped. You can not change someone who doesn't want to change. It's not like they've been married for 10 years & have several children & dog & he suddenly began picking his nose in public. POF.
Author appletini Posted December 27, 2011 Author Posted December 27, 2011 Wow, completely spaced out on this thread and missed the awesome replies until now - thank you, everyone! Long story short, we talked it out and it really was a unusual occurrence and one that has not (and will not) be repeated... He's given me full permission to bolt if he gets that weird again. So no, I did not quit at the first sign of an issue, but I did make sure to address it early on (something I failed to do in a past relationship). And I agree with you dasein, that there are two competing cultural values at play here and that makes it all that much murkier.
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