Is it just sex?

[MyApology]

Hi, I have been OW, for a few months, and am trying to figure out the relationship dynamics of different types of affairs, their similarities and differences.

I question what MM are trully looking for. My MM is always complaining about his wife, who keeps him on a short tight leash. I do not believe in forcing a man to behave in ways you wish him too, by force, nagging, and using tight control. She also controls all the money even though he is the huge breadwinner. I feel if a man trully loves you then he will behave with integrity, regardless of extent of his freedom.

We are complete opposite in looks, she is extremely average, not a head turner to any extent, possible she may have once been pretty. I do turn heads and MM and I have great chemistry in ALL ways. Sounds lame, but we trully laugh with one another, naturally comfortable toward one another when together.

What is confusing me, is if they fight all the time, (trust me in that I have overheard her chalk board grating voice on phone), and he is also physically betraying her, mentally and physically, why does he stay? I know he says the same as other MM in which I have read in many posts, for the children. I sense non verbally as well as verbally that he is scared of her.

Does it seem men and women are completely different than men when it comes to relationships, more than likely if a woman had an unattractive, beer gutted man at home, who bitched and complained all the time, and held them on a short leash, and they met a handsome, sweet, and caring man in which there was highly mutual chemistry, most woman would leave quite easily.

I do not wish to put down the wife, I am confused at the situation. Plus, MM did lure me in with, that they were far from done with the marriage, nothing was left to work out, his foot was out the door, and this does not seem the case.

To me my answer is that he is a cake eater, his wife keeps the homefront, they are settled, and he is comfortable or lazy with that fact, and he wants me as sugar coated candy on the side.

I am no pushover, however, and him obliging to my concerns with great understanding and concern also confuses me.

I know I will get alot of grief from writing this, but this is what I am seeing at this point.

I would also like to know from the OW whose MM ended up leaving their wives, how was your relationship, when you were in the affair.

Thanks!

[MissBee]

Your post reminds me of something I've always wondered:

 

How is a man who seems scared of his wife, who is controlled by his wife, who seems crippled to stand up against her attractive to someone?

 

I have never understood that dynamic. The one where the MM is being abused allegedly or his wife controls him supposedly, but he stays, tail between legs and cheats behind his slave driver's back. For me, that is a turn off. I like my men assertive and aggressive. I don't fancy men who I feel I can walk all over and certainly if the picture they are painting is that other people walk all over them....I am not interested. I don't like men who whine and complain....I don't like people like that period, and even less so, men. While in the A he never complained about her, never made it seem like she controlled his life....I suppose for me, being sorry for a man is not an aphrodisiac...but maybe for some it is.

 

I do realize every person's taste is different....but I suppose that is something I never got and would pose the question to you: how does that situation not turn you off? I can probably try to answer why he stays but more so...with all that being said...why do YOU stay?

[LoveTKO]

Your post reminds me of something I've always wondered:

 

How is a man who seems scared of his wife, who is controlled by his wife, who seems crippled to stand up against her attractive to someone?

 

I have never understood that dynamic. The one where the MM is being abused allegedly or his wife controls him supposedly, but he stays, tail between legs and cheats behind his slave driver's back. For me, that is a turn off. I like my men assertive and aggressive. I don't fancy men who I feel I can walk all over and certainly if the picture they are painting is that other people walk all over them....I am not interested. I don't like men who whine and complain....I don't like people like that period, and even less so, men. While in the A he never complained about her, never made it seem like she controlled his life....I suppose for me, being sorry for a man is not an aphrodisiac...but maybe for some it is.

 

I do realize every person's taste is different....but I suppose that is something I never got and would pose the question to you: how does that situation not turn you off? I can probably try to answer why he stays but more so...with all that being said...why do YOU stay?

 

 

You can wonder all you want, but it is something that can't be rationalized, feelings and attracion. You can't talk yourself out of liking someone, right? It's all about chemistry - some people have it with each other and some people don't people don't. Simple as that.

[Jinxx]

Its's been quite a few years since I have visited this site but no grief given here. You've answered alot of your questions.

 

Unless MM is willing and wants to leave the marriage you are in a no win situation and it's best to find another man you do not have to share.

 

My situation -- I am still in a long-term relationship *sigh* with a MM that's complicated in that our families are connected and know each other. I have tried to stay away with NC and he has done the same and we always end up back together. For how long this time? I don't know. But the day will come when I meet someone incredible to share my life with and he will be kicked to the curb for good.

 

Bottom line who really wins in this? Not the OW/OM. And really not the cheater either. In most cases, they're lacking something vital to their realtionship at home but would rather stay and be miserable.

[MyApology]

Oh believe me, it is a turn off completely. I feel the same way you do. I have internally been wrestling this fact in my mind. This is not a tale made up by him, it is trully how things are. It appears as if it is a type of mental/mind control. He is scared of ANY scent being present on him....even SOAP! I have mentioned to him that this is crazy and I am not really keen on it, asked him if she was a hound dog and sniffed him up and down everytime he came home, and he said, Yes! Maybe he likes this dominent behavoir?

[MyApology]

He pursued me to a great extent, I thought he was single because of that fact. I learned he was married on first date, and when I mentioned I have never dated a married man, and could not see myself dating a married man, is when he spoke of her first, and said the relationship was completely over, which was not the truth at all. He seems to be under her thumb, and tightly. It is a turn off.

Our chemistry minus this fact is what keeps me with him. When he is not stressed with the control, we are giddy like teenagers, laugh, joke, have intense chemistry. We have this magnetic draw to one another, I cannot figure it out or explain it. I dumped him after the first date and we could not stay away from one another mutually. I know this sounds crazy, but us how it is. I am not sure if it is because I am laid back with some issues without being a pushover, letting him breathe a little. Not sure.

[Heart On]

What I found contradictory was that if she was SO horrible and SO bad in bed and SUCH a bore and SO controlling and SO mean to him why did he stay, but more amazingly why did he RISK cheating on a woman he knew held his balls in her back pocket?

 

Because she was none of those things.No more than when he inevitably dumps you to go home to her, leaving you wondering WTF happened to your life,that you somehow deserved to be thrown under the bus because you were just some lowly OW he used for sex.

 

Would you get involved with a MM who said he loved his wife,had great sex with her,was alot of fun,let him be himself,forgave his limitations,trusted him implicitly and who he loved and felt guilty for betraying but needed a way to justify his selfish,deceptive, manipulative behavior in both situations?

 

I don't think so.

 

The wives are RARELY the real problem.

 

But they most certainly know that traingulating women is the best way to have thier cake and eat it too!~

 

Why would you think a man who lies thru his teeth to his wife to see you,wouldn't do the same thing to keep you strung along?

[whichwayisup]

Why does he stay? Because he doesn't want to divorce. He likes having you on the side and the benefits of that. He has his wife, his home, his status, his family, friends, in laws around him. He stays because nobody has forced him to do otherwise. He stays because he wants an affair on the side and doesn't want to start over with someone else (you).. This is his choice and he's happy.

 

Question is, are you? Are you okay being second fiddle in his life? Never have him when you want him, holidays, birthdays, vacations.. Times you're ill or just want someone home for cuddle up and watch a good movie on TV. He has it made in the shade, why on earth would he want to give up one woman (you and his wife) when he has two to fulfill all his selfish needs?

 

I'm sure he cares for you, has feelings for you, sexual and emotional..But, it's not enough to make him give up all that he has and knows, to start over again.

 

Think about why you're doing this and if it makes you happy. Maybe right now you're okay with this, but in a year or two when you want more, things will change and you'll want him to leave and divorce his wife, to be with you. Which rolls back to the top, this guy isn't looking to start over.. SO where does that leave you?

[SBC]

She also controls all the money even though he is the huge breadwinner. !

 

Bogus Alert! Bogus Alert!

[whichwayisup]

Our chemistry minus this fact is what keeps me with him.

 

Then chances are, it's the same reason why you're with him. The sex and chemistry is good. Though, you do realize that it doesn't equal or equate love..

Just like you, he has reasons why he decides to hang onto you and keep you as the OW in his life. If you are okay with this, settling for so little, for good sex, then continue on, accept things as they are and enjoy it until it ends.. And, one day it WILL end, if not by a D-Day (discover day of affair by his wife) then he'll end it because down the road you'll want more from him and what you have now won't be enough.

 

I really don't understand why you even bothered going out with him after finding out he was married after your first date.

 

Remember, you chose this so when/if it ends, don't put all the blame on him. You knowingly got involved with a man who was married.. Yes, he's fed you some pretty good whopping lies to keep you on your toes and interested in him, but actions show you that he is still at home.

[spice4life]

MyApology, you said it all right here:

 

I do not wish to put down the wife, I am confused at the situation. Plus, MM did lure me in with, that they were far from done with the marriage, nothing was left to work out, his foot was out the door, and this does not seem the case.*

To me my answer is that he is a cake eater, his wife keeps the homefront, they are settled, and he is comfortable or lazy with that fact, and he wants me as sugar coated candy on the side.

I am no pushover, however, and him obliging to my concerns with great understanding and concern also confuses me.

 

To be honest, the last person you should question is his wife. It's quite possible that their problems stem from the invisible person involved in their relationship - which is you. Of course a relationship is going to be bad if one person is dealing with the issues by going outside of the marriage.

 

Moreover, if she is as controlling as you say, then he is dealing with it passive aggressively by having you. What he should be doing is plunking his a$$ into therapy to find out why he puts up with that treatment - if what he says is true of course. Or, more importantly, maybe he likes it. If he doesn't , it's quite possible that things would change if stood up for himself, but that's for him to figure out. It's not your job to fix him - he needs to sort it out if he is unhappy.

 

I don't care what anyone says, EVERYONE has the ability to change the dynamic of their circumstances if they really want to. It could be a simple case of he just doesn't want to or he doesn't recognize where he is going wrong.

 

In short, if you want to see where this takes you, your focus should be on who he is as a person.

Edited December 11, 2011 by spice4life

[MissBee]

You can wonder all you want, but it is something that can't be rationalized, feelings and attracion. You can't talk yourself out of liking someone, right? It's all about chemistry - some people have it with each other and some people don't people don't. Simple as that.

 

I'm not sure what chemistry has to do with this....

 

Feelings and attractions can be rationalized....they are all the time, look around the board, even this post is a rationalization for what I'm supposing you're claiming are irrational feelings. Your rationale is that feelings aren't rational.

 

In any case that was not my question....my question was to MyApology about how come she doesn't find a man who complains all the time about his wife and is scared of her unattractive? And then generally to those in As where the man is scared of the wife and complains about her but never leaves, how do they find this dynamic not a turn off or what rationale do they use to deal with it...as my A did not have that kind of dynamic...and if it did I probably wouldn't have been involved as that sounds very annoying.

 

By saying what you've said, "Feelings can't be understood"...you close yourself off from ANY critical thinking about yourself and your situation. It's a cop out IMO. The purpose of therapy, for example, is to get you to evaluate your feelings and realize they aren't random and you can in fact critically consider them and make choices based on using your brain and feelings and not just feelings alone. Living a life where you're carried off on the wind of feelings and you simply accept that as how it is and don't try to apply a critical lens to it...isn't a good look. Those who simply say "You feel how you feel", "The heart wants what the heart wants" and other uncritical stances are doing themselves a disservice IMO.

[MissBee]

Oh believe me, it is a turn off completely. I feel the same way you do. I have internally been wrestling this fact in my mind. This is not a tale made up by him, it is trully how things are. It appears as if it is a type of mental/mind control. He is scared of ANY scent being present on him....even SOAP! I have mentioned to him that this is crazy and I am not really keen on it, asked him if she was a hound dog and sniffed him up and down everytime he came home, and he said, Yes! Maybe he likes this dominent behavoir?

 

 

Wow...well you may be right, he may very well like that sort of thing. Has she always been like this? He married her for some reason, good or bad, and that's his issue...operative word HIS.

 

I have come to realize (through a break up that took me almost 2 years to get over) that people can and will do what they want to do....their issues are their own....I can't control for it...and even after I understand why they do as they do (which is what I spent all my time doing, diagnosing my ex and his issues )...how does it help ME? It's better I figure out that wow...this man is __________________ (fill in the blank with whatever type of problem he has) and I am still around....still trying to be with him, still trying to diagnose him, being annoyed with him but nonetheless....still there. WHY?! Once you change that focus to yourself and why you stay in light of all the facts...then you see a very different (and sometimes scary picture that you'd rather not see about yourself).

 

It's a process though. I do realize that it usually starts with you externalizing and being concerned about the other person and what's wrong with them....then you eventually graduate to saying, okayyyy that's nice that this that and the third are wrong with him...but here I am, dating him, with all that mess going on...so what's up with me???

[MyApology]

What I found contradictory was that if she was SO horrible and SO bad in bed and SUCH a bore and SO controlling and SO mean to him why did he stay, but more amazingly why did he RISK cheating on a woman he knew held his balls in her back pocket?

 

Because she was none of those things.No more than when he inevitably dumps you to go home to her, leaving you wondering WTF happened to your life,that you somehow deserved to be thrown under the bus because you were just some lowly OW he used for sex.

 

Would you get involved with a MM who said he loved his wife,had great sex with her,was alot of fun,let him be himself,forgave his limitations,trusted him implicitly and who he loved and felt guilty for betraying but needed a way to justify his selfish,deceptive, manipulative behavior in both situations?

 

I don't think so.

 

The wives are RARELY the real problem.

 

But they most certainly know that traingulating women is the best way to have thier cake and eat it too!~

 

Why would you think a man who lies thru his teeth to his wife to see you,wouldn't do the same thing to keep you strung along?

 

 

He might be lying, although her constant ringing and voice says otherwise, his nervous breakdown type behavoir does not register a man happy with his marriage. I do wonder why she stays, and why she decided to have children with a man who was not content in the marriage and betrayed his marriage vows. No one forced her to stay or him to stray.

No one is saying the wife is the problem, but to assume that the man is happy in a marriage in which he cheats is a far stretch. Men in loving, healthy, satisfying marriages do not look outside their marriage, if all as you say is so great. There are cases of men/women who stray once, a mistake and learn from it.

That is why I am posting on the OM/OW board, to hear and learn from others. In my case, yes there is undeniable chemistry. I have broken it off and he starts this hot pursuit again. At this point, I believe there is a level of obsession/magnetic chemistry mutually, but I will not hang around long if I do see that the marriage is indeed not broken, and he is not contemplating more for himself not me to leave an unhappy situation, not using children and in laws as an excuse.

Pity parties are a turn off.

[MyApology]

Wow...well you may be right, he may very well like that sort of thing. Has she always been like this? He married her for some reason, good or bad, and that's his issue...operative word HIS.

 

I have come to realize (through a break up that took me almost 2 years to get over) that people can and will do what they want to do....their issues are their own....I can't control for it...and even after I understand why they do as they do (which is what I spent all my time doing, diagnosing my ex and his issues )...how does it help ME? It's better I figure out that wow...this man is __________________ (fill in the blank with whatever type of problem he has) and I am still around....still trying to be with him, still trying to diagnose him, being annoyed with him but nonetheless....still there. WHY?! Once you change that focus to yourself and why you stay in light of all the facts...then you see a very different (and sometimes scary picture that you'd rather not see about yourself).

 

It's a process though. I do realize that it usually starts with you externalizing and being concerned about the other person and what's wrong with them....then you eventually graduate to saying, okayyyy that's nice that this that and the third are wrong with him...but here I am, dating him, with all that mess going on...so what's up with me???

 

I completely understand, the but here I am, dating him, with all that mess going on, what's up with me? This is the reason I keep breaking it off. I thought that alone would stop his pursuit. But, he comes back, and there is this, extremely hard to put in words....but a huge magnetic overlaod of ALL senses physical....on both sides. And at other times he would just look at me, say my name, and it was just that, together again and another so what is up with me.

Am I wrong in that there are some men who like being controlled and dominated by a woman? This is what I am trying to decipher.

[bentnotbroken]

He might be lying, although her constant ringing and voice says otherwise, his nervous breakdown type behavoir does not register a man happy with his marriage. I do wonder why she stays, and why she decided to have children with a man who was not content in the marriage and betrayed his marriage vows. No one forced her to stay or him to stray.

No one is saying the wife is the problem, but to assume that the man is happy in a marriage in which he cheats is a far stretch. Men in loving, healthy, satisfying marriages do not look outside their marriage, if all as you say is so great. There are cases of men/women who stray once, a mistake and learn from it.

That is why I am posting on the OM/OW board, to hear and learn from others. In my case, yes there is undeniable chemistry. I have broken it off and he starts this hot pursuit again. At this point, I believe there is a level of obsession/magnetic chemistry mutually, but I will not hang around long if I do see that the marriage is indeed not broken, and he is not contemplating more for himself not me to leave an unhappy situation, not using children and in laws as an excuse.

Pity parties are a turn off.

 

 

I believe that the spouse (male or female) more than likely contribute to marital problems. But to sit on the outside looking in and to assume that what he says is somewhere near the "real" truth of his life...is like looking in a broken mirror and seeing a distorted image. Shards, splinters and cracks are characteristics of real marriages, yet most of the outside rarely if ever see the true dynamics of their marriage.

 

The way you characterize your involvement with him seems to be one of lack of control and inability to have firm boundaries...with the magnetism and all. Most people run from obsessive people.

[MissBee]

I completely understand, the but here I am, dating him, with all that mess going on, what's up with me? This is the reason I keep breaking it off. I thought that alone would stop his pursuit. But, he comes back, and there is this, extremely hard to put in words....but a huge magnetic overlaod of ALL senses physical....on both sides. And at other times he would just look at me, say my name, and it was just that, together again and another so what is up with me.

Am I wrong in that there are some men who like being controlled and dominated by a woman? This is what I am trying to decipher.

 

Some of the strongest pull and synergy comes from toxic relationships....

 

That make up break up drama, that anxiety, that drama, somehow gets our juices flowing. When you realize this....it can be very upsetting. One of my best sexual partners and one I had great chemistry with was an assshole whom I could not get along with for a long time, but we had this tension and drama between us that lead to amazing sex, then I'd hate him and not speak to him and then we spoke and fought and ended up in bed...smh. I grew to realize chemistry is not magical or pure...it's purely chemical and even psychological and toxic situations can make for the largest magnetic pull. You should check out this site called Baggage Reclaim that discusses OW and other unavailable relationships....search the site for chemistry, toxic relationships and read the articles...it's enlightening!

 

Yes, along with that, some men do like that sort of thing. My friend's mom is a tyrant and a semi nutcase and his dead is passive and panders to her and I would feel so bad for him but my friend made a comment one day that caught me off guard....he said that he thinks his dad loves her behavior as he is not like that, so all that she is, is what his dad wishes he could be so it turns him on. It's possible. The people we attract and are attracted to say A LOT about us. Good, bad or indifferent...

[MyApology]

I believe that the spouse (male or female) more than likely contribute to marital problems. But to sit on the outside looking in and to assume that what he says is somewhere near the "real" truth of his life...is like looking in a broken mirror and seeing a distorted image. Shards, splinters and cracks are characteristics of real marriages, yet most of the outside rarely if ever see the true dynamics of their marriage.

 

The way you characterize your involvement with him seems to be one of lack of control and inability to have firm boundaries...with the magnetism and all. Most people run from obsessive people.

 

I have placed a few firm boundaries in which I was sure would make him consider not being in the relationship, but he obliges, and softens.

[bentnotbroken]

I have placed a few firm boundaries in which I was sure would make him consider not being in the relationship, but he obliges, and softens.

Yes, you have posted about your boundaries.

[MissBee]

I have placed a few firm boundaries in which I was sure would make him consider not being in the relationship, but he obliges, and softens.

 

I think you have it confused MyApology

 

Boundaries are for yourself....as in, what YOU will and won't do and what you will and won't allow. You can't make boundaries for others.

 

Anyway, question:

 

So let's say we find out his wife likes being controlling and he likes it too and they both get their rocks off from this dynamic....then what? What is the next step for you in that case?

 

Do you have any goals in mind for this relationship? As in, are you looking for him to leave? Are you looking for the strength to leave? What do you want ultimately?

[MyApology]

Some of the strongest pull and synergy comes from toxic relationships....

 

That make up break up drama, that anxiety, that drama, somehow gets our juices flowing. When you realize this....it can be very upsetting. One of my best sexual partners and one I had great chemistry with was an assshole whom I could not get along with for a long time, but we had this tension and drama between us that lead to amazing sex, then I'd hate him and not speak to him and then we spoke and fought and ended up in bed...smh. I grew to realize chemistry is not magical or pure...it's purely chemical and even psychological and toxic situations can make for the largest magnetic pull. You should check out this site called Baggage Reclaim that discusses OW and other unavailable relationships....search the site for chemistry, toxic relationships and read the articles...it's enlightening!

 

Yes, along with that, some men do like that sort of thing. My friend's mom is a tyrant and a semi nutcase and his dead is passive and panders to her and I would feel so bad for him but my friend made a comment one day that caught me off guard....he said that he thinks his dad loves her behavior as he is not like that, so all that she is, is what his dad wishes he could be so it turns him on. It's possible. The people we attract and are attracted to say A LOT about us. Good, bad or indifferent...

 

I have been firm to what and what I will not put up with. We have not had a fight yet. I am interested in what you recommended, the article on chemistry and toxic relationships. I hope it will enlighten what the heck is going on here.

He acts like the dominance bothers him, but it must not to an extent of leaving. I have always been with men that if anyone attempted to control them, they would be in a scurry to get away.

Miss Bee, is it the dynamics of the affair that makes this up and down different then a non affair relationship in most times not always this leads to a break up that is not salvagable.

[MyApology]

I think you have it confused MyApology

 

Boundaries are for yourself....as in, what YOU will and won't do and what you will and won't allow. You can't make boundaries for others.

 

Anyway, question:

 

 

So let's say we find out his wife likes being controlling and he likes it too and they both get their rocks off from this dynamic....then what? What is the next step for you in that case?

 

Do you have any goals in mind for this relationship? As in, are you looking for him to leave? Are you looking for the strength to leave? What do you want ultimately?

 

Not quite sure yet. I am taking it easy, and trying to see how it goes naturally. But, I am not sure I want to do that or just leave the whole deal. I wanted to learn if he is a snake that is only out for himself or if he is trully confused. I know stupid.

[MissBee]

I have been firm to what and what I will not put up with. We have not had a fight yet. I am interested in what you recommended, the article on chemistry and toxic relationships. I hope it will enlighten what the heck is going on here.

He acts like the dominance bothers him, but it must not to an extent of leaving. I have always been with men that if anyone attempted to control them, they would be in a scurry to get away.

Miss Bee, is it the dynamics of the affair that makes this up and down different then a non affair relationship in most times not always this leads to a break up that is not salvagable.

 

 

Yea you should read around on the site...she has MANY articles and many women with stories you can relate to that will open your mind and shed light on what may be going on with you.

 

I'm not exactly sure what you're asking but usually affairs aren't healthy relationships and in their very nature promote behaviors and obstacles that stifle healthy patterns....in that way, just like some single relationships are also unhealthy, unproductive, ill-suited etc...so too are many affairs. The difference is that with affairs, often that is built into it and it is doomed from the start to take an unhealthy turn, whereas in regular relationships it is not necessarily that way.

 

Your pull to this man and this situation in light of everything are what stuck out to me, which is why I encouraged you to read the site and check out the articles on chemistry, as it explains a lot about chemistry and magnetism and what underlies that.

[MyApology]

Bogus Alert! Bogus Alert!

 

Why is this bogus. She pays all the bills, monitors how much cash he withdraws, credit cards. He pays for everything with us, but is worried about the trail it leaves. If a relationship has absolutely zero trust, it does not seem healthy for those involved.

[bentnotbroken]

Why is this bogus. She pays all the bills, monitors how much cash he withdraws, credit cards. He pays for everything with us, but is worried about the trail it leaves. If a relationship has absolutely zero trust, it does not seem healthy for those involved.

 

Tell us again exactly why should she trust a man who is taking another woman to dinner and trying not to leave a paper trail? What is trustworthy about his behavior?