Can Men and Women be JUST friends?

[phineas]

We need to have a drink sometime. My bet is you have a wide-ranging skillset too. Hoovers glom onto that like stink on shyte.

 

I even see those Hoover'esque propensities pop up in otherwise seemingly generous wives when their H's aren't paying them enough attention or doing enough 'honey-do's' for them. I see it every day. Boundaries man, that's all I can say. Otherwise, they'll just grind you up like beef through a meat grinder.

 

I hate having to get 'mean' with women but sometimes that's the only way. Set 'em back on their ass and you get respect, or they leave. Either is fine with me.

 

Jack of most trades.

Like my close friends, each with one or two strong strengths the others don't have so we mesh good.

 

Never had one of their wives cross a boundary. Not even their ex-wives. LOL!

 

But i've had other married women looking for some free work done & that just wasn't going to happen. The single one's? yeah I figured them out also eventually. Then had a relapse after divorce but i'm back on the wagon.

[carhill]

Unless one of you is in a relationship.

Which one?

 

IME, no woman who is happily married or otherwise in a relationship would ever, and has never, progressed a platonic friendship in a healthy manner with myself if she was attracted. Sure, I've had plenty of MW's, but those were unhealthy dynamics, not healthy platonic friendships.

 

If she's in a relationship, or you are, how would you know if she is attracted to you or not? Why would it even be discussed? It is irrelevant.

You'd be surprised what I've discussed with married women

 

I've got a data point from my journals which I'll query and update in January. She demonstrated substantial 'attraction' while I was M and she was M. My read, and those of LS ladies who commented, was 'circumstantial ego feed' but my mind is open to healthier potentials. We'll see

[phineas]

I notice that there are few threads on LS about women becoming frustrated with and/or ambivalent about remaining friends with good men they are attracted to but where the man isn't attracted to them. I think that is instructive. Think about it. In fact, in real life, I've never met or befriended such a woman. Is that a coincidence?

 

The conclusion to accept is that, generally, no woman will ever progress a platonic friendship with a man whom she is attracted to. Ergo, looking around, men, any woman who is or considers you a friend is not attracted to you. Good rule of thumb. 100% success rate rule of thumb in my 52.

 

I've met a few women with many orbiters whom she chooses to date.

however, these guys basically get their sex then leave after a few months as soon as someone worthy of a real relationship comes around.

[phineas]

I completely agree.

 

That sucks.

We women can sometimes be great friends, especially when we've grown up around brothers and had male friends from a young age.

 

I thought they were good friends for a while until they pulled their crap.

 

And for the record I found them VERY attractive.

But, after bending over backward to try & please a cheating wife I loose interest in women emotionally very quickly if I don't feel like their into me.

 

It doesn't matter how hot they are I won't develop feelings for a woman who doesn't care for me that way back. But man, their still easy on the eyes. LOL!

[cerridwen]

Blardy blar blar blar! BLAR BLAR BLAR! :mad:

 

No female friends?

Imagine that!

[Wolf18]

No female friends?

Imagine that!

 

Chicken or the egg?

 

Did his attitude (And almost all the other males in this thread) fall down from the sky?

 

You won't admit there's atleast something to what we're saying?

[cerridwen]

I thought they were good friends for a while until they pulled their crap.

 

And for the record I found them VERY attractive.

But, after bending over backward to try & please a cheating wife I loose interest in women emotionally very quickly if I don't feel like their into me.

 

It doesn't matter how hot they are I won't develop feelings for a woman who doesn't care for me that way back. But man, their still easy on the eyes. LOL!

 

I get that given your history.

Not every guy has to have female friends if it's not comfortable for him after being burned.

[xxoo]

Which one?

 

IME, no woman who is happily married or otherwise in a relationship would ever, and has never, progressed a platonic friendship in a healthy manner with myself if she was attracted. Sure, I've had plenty of MW's, but those were unhealthy dynamics, not healthy platonic friendships.

 

Hmm. My life has been different. I've been in one relationship my entire adult life, and I've made friends along the way--in college and at jobs, in particular. They have always enjoyed meeting my H. I've had a female coworker of my H come to dinner at our house, and I've gone out to eat with my male coworker and my H.

 

Are we that weird?

 

You'd be surprised what I've discussed with married women

 

That crosses my personal boundaries.

 

If nothing else, when I care for a person, I don't tease them. I want the best for them. So, in the case of the male friends I've been attracted to, I'm careful about being deliberately "sisterly".

[cerridwen]

I get that given your history.

Not every guy has to have female friends if it's not comfortable for him after being burned.

 

Tried to add:

 

What I disagree with is when it's expressed as a universal truth that platonic relationships between sexes can not exist.

[joystickd]

No female friends?

Imagine that!

 

Ok funny! But when you been burned enough it becomes either you like me or not. No friendship that grey area I hate.

[Cypress25]

Just give him a shot and be 100% sure that nothing is there.

 

A shot at what? Dating? Kissing? Sex? How far does a woman need to go before she's allowed to make up her own mind? How much does she need to try before she can be 100% sure that nothing is there? If you're not attracted to someone, usually you can tell right away.

 

If the guy is a good friend, not bad looking and the friendship is something you want to save, why not try? Honestly, if the guy isn't good enough to date, why be his friend at all?

 

I require a lot more from a romantic partner than I do from a friend. I don't need to be totally compatible with my friends, it's OK if we're different in some major ways. We can still be good friends, but we could never be in a successful relationship. And I don't need to be sexually attracted to my friends. But I do need to feel some attraction to a man in order to date him.

 

If me and a girl both like each other, I treat her with respect and make her laugh, what else does she need?

 

She needs a lot more, I'm sorry to say.

 

Of course it's the whole chemistry and attraction aspect that has doomed me to life of loneliness.

 

You answered your own question right there. If she doesn't feel any chemistry or attraction, she won't be interested in dating you. That's reasonable, isn't it?

 

Assume some responsibility? Why is it all on me? She's a grown woman.

 

Because she's not actually doing anything wrong. She's trying to be your friend because she thinks you're OK with that. Since you're the one who knows your true feelings, you need to take care of yourself and remove yourself from the situation if it's making you unhappy. It's not her fault that you're clinging to false hope.

 

And yet a woman would date a man she has nothing in common with, fights all the time, just because he's exciting...

 

Most women don't do that on purpose. By the time they start fighting and she realizes they have nothing in common, they've already been dating for awhile and she's already invested a great deal of effort in the relationship. And then it ends, because there's no way to make it work. But relationships don't usually start out that way.

 

What I disagree with is when it's expressed as a universal truth that platonic relationships between sexes can not exist.

 

This. Some men don't want to be friends with women because they've had bad experiences with it. I get that. But that doesn't mean that no one can be friends with the opposite sex. You can't make sweeping generalizations based on your personal experiences.

[carhill]

What I disagree with is when it's expressed as a universal truth that platonic relationships between sexes can not exist.

That's fair, IMO. As life is an individual journey, few if any universal truths apply.

 

Are we that weird?

You may have missed my qualifier, which was 'if she was attracted', regarding platonic friendships. IME, women just don't do that. IMO, that's smart

 

That crosses my personal boundaries.

I'm a good listener. Think of me as a therapist. I'm used as one a lot here on LS, privately.

 

When I say 'discussed', I mean facilitate. I've heard everything, the good, the bad and the horribly ugly not normally discussed with anyone. If you were to ask those women what they knew of my past M, few if any would have a clue. That's partly because they didn't/don't care, and care is what forms emotional memories, and part is because I don't generally talk about such matters with outsiders, preferring to keep the M within the M.

 

As I noted in a prior post, there are many paths in life. All are valid. The differences between them make for interesting discussion.

[irc333]

You know what irritates me, when a woman gets ticked off at a guy that doesn't want to be her friend, after she's just told him she doesn't see him in that way, and he looses touch. Then she says, "All he wanted to do was get in my pants"

 

Talk about audacity.

[somedude81]

A shot at what? Dating? Kissing? Sex? How far does a woman need to go before she's allowed to make up her own mind? How much does she need to try before she can be 100% sure that nothing is there? If you're not attracted to someone, usually you can tell right away.

From what I've read, posted by women on this forum, many can't tell that they were into a guy until after they've kissed him or had sex. Then she realizes how much she liked him and all that jazz.

 

So yes, it would be wonderful if a close woman friend would agree to sex to see if anything is there. Of course I know how unlikely that is.

 

Realistically the best thing would be to go on a date and just let the guy get a kiss if the date didn't go bad. If she still doesn't feel anything, then there is the answer.

 

You answered your own question right there. If she doesn't feel any chemistry or attraction, she won't be interested in dating you. That's reasonable, isn't it?

Honestly, it's not reasonable for me anymore.

 

I've accepted that I'm not the kind of guy who can wow anybody with my looks. Women are never going to be physically attracted to me.

 

I believe that I have a lot of great qualities and can be a good boyfriend, but because of what I look like, I feel that women simple refuse to give me a chance. And I'm not even that bad looking or fat.

 

I'm also lacking that player personality, so there is nothing that exciting about me.

 

So is it fair that because I'm short and not a player that I have to be single for the rest of my life?

 

I don't require girls to be super hot or have very exciting personalities, so why do they require those things?

 

Seems too many women are stuck in fantasyland.

 

Because she's not actually doing anything wrong. She's trying to be your friend because she thinks you're OK with that. Since you're the one who knows your true feelings, you need to take care of yourself and remove yourself from the situation if it's making you unhappy. It's not her fault that you're clinging to false hope.

She's still enabling.

 

BTW, I haven't spoken to the girl in a month. But our thing was going on for nearly two years. She also knew from the very beginning that I was into her.

 

Most women don't do that on purpose. By the time they start fighting and she realizes they have nothing in common, they've already been dating for awhile and she's already invested a great deal of effort in the relationship. And then it ends, because there's no way to make it work. But relationships don't usually start out that way.

Oh give me a break.

 

How long does it take to figure out that you don't have anything in common with somebody?

 

Why even invest effort into a relationship when you don't know if you have anything in common or if you two don't along?

 

Are women that blinded by chemistry and excitement?

[thatone]

We need to have a drink sometime. My bet is you have a wide-ranging skillset too. Hoovers glom onto that like stink on shyte.

 

I even see those Hoover'esque propensities pop up in otherwise seemingly generous wives when their H's aren't paying them enough attention or doing enough 'honey-do's' for them. I see it every day. Boundaries man, that's all I can say. Otherwise, they'll just grind you up like beef through a meat grinder.

 

I hate having to get 'mean' with women but sometimes that's the only way. Set 'em back on their ass and you get respect, or they leave. Either is fine with me.

 

stop by my place on the way.

 

resume:

 

radio DJ

accounting

network admin

windows/doors/cabinets/wood floors

stock trader albeit with only my own money

real estate development

and after a few months, pilot, starting the flight training this week

 

imagine how bad it can be when you can fix their locks AND clean up their computer virii AND give them 401k advice AND help them shop for houses. i'm a veritable one stop shop for everything the dumbass from the bar with the tattoos can't do.

 

i've put a few in their place as well, and i've never heard from them after the fact. you would think at least one would've had a twinge of guilt after i said "sorry, i'm not moving your furniture for you for free" but nope.

 

the woman i bought my antique piano from had an entire crew working on her house for free when i went to pick it up. the contractor she was leading on had about 12 guys working there. new floors, new counter tops, new landscaping, the whole 9 yards.

 

and i keep 18 year scotch for every day drink, i'll get a 25 every now and then!

[xxoo]

You may have missed my qualifier, which was 'if she was attracted', regarding platonic friendships. IME, women just don't do that. IMO, that's smart

 

I didn't miss it. I'm saying that is not the case for me. Whether or not I feel an attraction is inconsequential.

 

But that doesn't mean I'm telling this guy all my personal stuff, or asking him to help me move. I'll take advantage of an opportunity for him to meet my H, and then the friendship will develop (or not) from there.

 

Also--I would wager a guess that the MAN never knew I had any attraction.

 

About moving stuff, my H has helped females coworker move a couch, or similar. He's done that kind of thing for male coworkers just as often, though.

[ThaWholigan]

Honestly, from what I have observed, most women seem to have a better understanding of attraction than men do in general. I wonder why?

[Cypress25]

From what I've read, posted by women on this forum, many can't tell that they were into a guy until after they've kissed him or had sex. Then she realizes how much she liked him and all that jazz.

 

And a million women have told you that you're wrong about that, but you keep believing it anyway. A woman wouldn't kiss a guy or have sex with him if she wasn't attracted to him. She has to feel the attraction before any of that stuff happens, otherwise it won't happen.

 

So yes, it would be wonderful if a close woman friend would agree to sex to see if anything is there. Of course I know how unlikely that is.

 

Do you know what it feels like to be intimate with someone you're not attracted to? It's horrible. I've never gone so far as to have sex with a guy I'm not attracted to, but once I did make out with a guy I wasn't attracted to because he was a good friend and I liked his personality, so I thought maybe I could create attraction by letting him kiss me. Well, it didn't work and it just made me uncomfortable. In fact, I cried about it later because the whole thing made me feel so disgusting. I imagine that feeling would have been much worse if we'd actually had sex.

 

So for a woman to have sex with a man she's not attracted to, just as an experiment, she wouldn't just be like "I'm still not attracted to him, oh well, it was worth a shot." She wouldn't be able to just shrug it off like that. The whole experience would be horrible for her and she would probably feel very uncomfortable and upset about it later.

 

So is it fair that because I'm short and not a player that I have to be single for the rest of my life?

 

You don't have to be tall or a player to get women interested in you.

 

She's still enabling.

 

Are you addicted to her? If so, you need to cut contact. As the addict, it's your responsibility to seek recovery for your addiction. You can't blame it on the enablers, especially when they have no idea that you're holding out hope for a relationship.

 

Oh give me a break.

 

How long does it take to figure out that you don't have anything in common with somebody?

 

It can take awhile, especially if people change over the course of a relationship. Besides, the problem is not that they don't have anything in common. The problem is that they don't have enough in common. They may be compatible, but not compatible enough to stay together long-term.

 

Why even invest effort into a relationship when you don't know if you have anything in common or if you two don't along?

 

I'm sure they get along in the beginning, lol. Relationships don't usually start out with two people fighting.

 

The problem is, you're still blaming women for your frustration. But you need to understand, women don't owe you anything. Some things in life aren't fair, but it's not the woman's job to make life more fair for you.

[carhill]

I would wager a guess that the MAN never knew I had any attraction.

 

Sure, that's possible.

 

Some men are oblivious; some are not. It depends on how sensitive he is to outside stimulus.

 

I'd like to add specifics, regarding the other issues, but that would identify too many people close to me whom I'd rather not identify. Suffice to say some friendships have ended because of such issues. The data point I'll clarify next month is one of them.

 

Also, an important distinction to remember is I was single longer than you've been married, so not continuously in a relationship and focused on one person, and hence had the freedom and propensity to explore and experience a wide range of potentials, both healthy and unhealthy, over a very long period of time. I can see the dynamic clearly when envisioning how things went when I was 'off the market' while M. It was like the world changed; a phenomenon I've heard from others on LS who have come out of M's back into the single world. It's just different.

 

I would opine that, if you can consciously and continuously ignore an attraction to someone close to you, someone who considers you to be a friend, to the extent that you feel they would never be aware, that's pretty extraordinary and outside of my experience in life. It would be interesting to learn how that conundrum is resolved at the psycho-emotional level; specifically how the emotions of the moment are processed into a continuum of behavior that is consistent and healthy. TBH, I can't compartmentalize that well. Good on ya for that.

[joystickd]

And a million women have told you that you're wrong about that, but you keep believing it anyway. A woman wouldn't kiss a guy or have sex with him if she wasn't attracted to him. She has to feel the attraction before any of that stuff happens, otherwise it won't happen.

 

 

 

Do you know what it feels like to be intimate with someone you're not attracted to? It's horrible. I've never gone so far as to have sex with a guy I'm not attracted to, but once I did make out with a guy I wasn't attracted to because he was a good friend and I liked his personality, so I thought maybe I could create attraction by letting him kiss me. Well, it didn't work and it just made me uncomfortable. In fact, I cried about it later because the whole thing made me feel so disgusting. I imagine that feeling would have been much worse if we'd actually had sex.

 

So for a woman to have sex with a man she's not attracted to, just as an experiment, she wouldn't just be like "I'm still not attracted to him, oh well, it was worth a shot." She wouldn't be able to just shrug it off like that. The whole experience would be horrible for her and she would probably feel very uncomfortable and upset about it later.

 

 

 

You don't have to be tall or a player to get women interested in you.

 

 

 

Are you addicted to her? If so, you need to cut contact. As the addict, it's your responsibility to seek recovery for your addiction. You can't blame it on the enablers, especially when they have no idea that you're holding out hope for a relationship.

 

 

 

It can take awhile, especially if people change over the course of a relationship. Besides, the problem is not that they don't have anything in common. The problem is that they don't have enough in common. They may be compatible, but not compatible enough to stay together long-term.

 

 

 

I'm sure they get along in the beginning, lol. Relationships don't usually start out with two people fighting.

 

The problem is, you're still blaming women for your frustration. But you need to understand, women don't owe you anything. Some things in life aren't fair, but it's not the woman's job to make life more fair for you.

 

 

Here is the problem you have guys that don't understand man-woman interaction. So and attempt at a platonic friendship can be disastrous. I know women hate to do this but at some point the woman needs to detach from the situation and accept some accountability in the situation. Women know the man has feeling for her so why doesn't she distance herself.

 

I go even further to say if a man and woman are friends why have sex with the man then go back to being friends then suggesting there could be more only when he acts upon it he gets shot down and then has to deal with her talking in vivid detail her sexual encounters with other men and some women. Then when he mans up and says something and distances himself she does everything short of actually having sex to get back in his life and ruins a relationship he has with someone he was in love with and thinking about marrying. He gets angry about what she done but then he psycho because he got mad. After all the back and forth he finally says she is dead to her. Then woman goes around talking bad about him even goes as far to talk to women he currently trying to talk to.

 

That happened to me. so no woman can sell me that line of crap about platonic friends. That taught me well. I leave with this song

 

[xxoo]

I would opine that, if you can consciously and continuously ignore an attraction to someone close to you, someone who considers you to be a friend, to the extent that you feel they would never be aware, that's pretty extraordinary and outside of my experience in life. It would be interesting to learn how that conundrum is resolved at the psycho-emotional level; specifically how the emotions of the moment are processed into a continuum of behavior that is consistent and healthy. TBH, I can't compartmentalize that well. Good on ya for that.

 

Attraction is not a big deal to me. Maybe because I have a healthy outlet for that energy (active sex life at home). Maybe because I have a relationship where I can divulge those attractions, if they become hard to deal with. (he tells me his, too)

 

But my life provides lots of opportunity to rub elbows with attractive people. At work, it is not only coworkers, but maybe the clientele. I still have to be professional. Maybe one day I'll feel attracted to a young man one of my children brings home . I still have to be appropriate. No worries--I'm well practiced

[ThaWholigan]

Attraction is not a big deal to me. Maybe because I have a healthy outlet for that energy (active sex life at home). Maybe because I have a relationship where I can divulge those attractions, if they become hard to deal with. (he tells me his, too)

 

But my life provides lots of opportunity to rub elbows with attractive people. At work, it is not only coworkers, but maybe the clientele. I still have to be professional. Maybe one day I'll feel attracted to a young man one of my children brings home . I still have to be appropriate. No worries--I'm well practiced

 

As I said earlier, women seem to have a better understanding of attraction and the like. Men seem to fall behind, and have to learn by trial and error, if we learn at all. I think we need to be more attentive to attraction as a subject.

[joystickd]

As I said earlier, women seem to have a better understanding of attraction and the like. Men seem to fall behind, and have to learn by trial and error, if we learn at all. I think we need to be more attentive to attraction as a subject.

 

also women need to quit abusing that knowledge. Ahhh I feel better now having let all of that out on this thread

[ThaWholigan]

also women need to quit abusing that knowledge. Ahhh I feel better now having let all of that out on this thread

 

We need to quit ALLOWING some women to abuse that knowledge by acquiring that knowledge ourselves. We would do ourselves and them a favor if we did

[joystickd]

We need to quit ALLOWING some women to abuse that knowledge by acquiring that knowledge ourselves. We would do ourselves and them a favor if we did

I saw this thread and had a long overdue need to vent. I have acquired the knowledge and I use it for dark purposes lol. Its fun to be the bad guy for once in my life instead of being the doormat or the person that only heard all a woman's problems:lmao: