Can Men and Women be JUST friends?

[joystickd]

Yes, she slapped you in the face. Shame on her.

 

When a guy I know is single, I'm on his case regarding the dating scene. "Any new women in your life? Any hot dates recently?" If he needed some help, I'd do what I can to help (introduce him to friend, invite him to events with women, etc).

 

The ones I dealt with never did that. They more or less wanted me as one of the many men interested in them. A sort of stroke to their ego.

[xxoo]

The ones I dealt with never did that. They more or less wanted me as one of the many men interested in them. A sort of stroke to their ego.

 

No doubt.

 

I know that happens. Women use men, and men use women...just differently.

 

But that doesn't mean that ALL male/female relationships are like that.

 

I remember, when I was younger, feeling pangs of jealousy when a guy friend would fall hard for a single woman. But even then, I recognized that as MY PROBLEM and dealt with it, supporting him. Because that is what friends do.

 

I don't get those pangs anymore. I've grown up

[joystickd]

No doubt.

 

I know that happens. Women use men, and men use women...just differently.

 

But that doesn't mean that ALL male/female relationships are like that.

 

I remember, when I was younger, feeling pangs of jealousy when a guy friend would fall hard for a single woman. But even then, I recognized that as MY PROBLEM and dealt with it, supporting him. Because that is what friends do.

 

I don't get those pangs anymore. I've grown up

 

It wasn't jealousy I just met some f**ked up women. They really did a number on me so to prevent that again I have that stance against platonic friendship. It has to be either you want me or don't no grey areas.

[kaylan]

Men and Women can only be REAL friends if no physical attraction exists on either side.

 

If either side has a physical or romantic attraction, then the friendship is usually doomed to fail or wasnt too much of a real friendship to being with. People through around the word friend too much when they really mean buddy or acquaintance a lot of the time.

 

For more insight simply look at the "men and women cant be friends" clip from the movie "When Harry Met Sally". If an attraction exists, itll eventually grow stronger and threaten the friendship.

 

Women sit and pretend they have all these guy friends who are just friends, but a lot of those dudes are just swallowing what they feel. For a fairly attractive woman, she could get naked and proposition her guy friends for sex and the majority would say yes.

 

The difference between the friend-zones and romantic potential is how attractive both people find each other. People know right away if they are attracted to someone, and generally men are only friends with women they find attractive. Not always, as I do have a few platonic female friends that i have no interest in whatsoever, but men are not proactive in seeking out these friendship.

 

Basically, people generally do not try to make friends with those they dont find attractive...they dont go out of their way to do it. Thats just how our minds work a lot of the time. Its the reason friend groups usually contain folks along the same attractiveness level. Many platonic friendships that occur where people dont find the other attractive usually occur through mutual friends and what not.

 

And note that there is a difference between an acquaintance (or buddy)and a REAL friend. A real friend is someone you share things with and spend a good bit of time with. You know, you actually go out of your way to proactively make plans with them and stuff.

 

In ending, Youd be hard pressed to find a REAL friendship between two people where one person is not attracted to the other. I say two people instead of just man and woman because I went to a fairly liberal school with a sizeable LGBT population, and the lesbians, gay men, and bisexuals tended to act the same way as heteros. The real friends who they spent a lot of time with and shared things with tended to be one of those friendships with a good amount of sexual tension on one or both sides.

Edited December 11, 2011 by kaylan

[lululucy]

It wasn't jealousy I just met some f**ked up women. They really did a number on me so to prevent that again I have that stance against platonic friendship. It has to be either you want me or don't no grey areas.

 

I think this is the big underlying issue here. The way you and wolf in particular describe some of the girls you've been "friends" with is unbelievable to me. I just have never met girls who are that horrible or use men in that way. I guarantee you if you met quality women who weren't looking for an ego boost or someone to help them with their laundry but a real true friend, then you would understand what everyone else is talking about. It's no fault of your own; everyone has different coping mechanisms to deal with situations. But painting all similar relationships with the same brush just isn't fair.

[phineas]

Ponder this...

 

In general women are better at certain things than men are, for example sewing. One of my female friends have literally saved me hundreds of dollars over the years, because she has fixed seems that have pulled apart in shirts etc. If you want to get all don juan about it, most women have single female friends they might introduce you to if they know you're a good guy.

 

seriously? You can't sew?

It's a fricken needle and thread.

You line up the the old seems & put the needle in the hole.

 

It aint that hard to do.

 

Next your going to tell me you can't iron or cook.

I'll bet you can match colors though & shop for your own clothes?

 

Women friends don't want me dating their friends. Period.

If I'm dating their friend I can't keep giving attention to them now can i?

Edited December 11, 2011 by phineas

[joystickd]

I think this is the big underlying issue here. The way you and wolf in particular describe some of the girls you've been "friends" with is unbelievable to me. I just have never met girls who are that horrible or use men in that way. I guarantee you if you met quality women who weren't looking for an ego boost or someone to help them with their laundry but a real true friend, then you would understand what everyone else is talking about. It's no fault of your own; everyone has different coping mechanisms to deal with situations. But painting all similar relationships with the same brush just isn't fair.

 

Being treated bad isn't fair. I do what I have to do to prevent it from happening again.

[cerridwen]

 

This explains why I can't understand guys on LS saying this -- men and women have such a different view on the topic.

 

That old chestnut?

The answer is "yes".

[phineas]

That old chestnut?

The answer is "yes".

 

Yeah, yes we can. But like all relationships it takes both people being on the same page.

I personally have yet to meet a woman who truly wants to be friends.

 

What they want is a man to be their lap-dog / emotional tampon / do manly tasks for them.

 

I also knew a guy who was very good looking who had A LOT of "woman" friends.

 

They were basically his harem because they were all willing to drop what plans they had to be his booty-call.

[xxoo]

Yeah, yes we can. But like all relationships it takes both people being on the same page.

I personally have yet to meet a woman who truly wants to be friends.

 

What they want is a man to be their lap-dog / emotional tampon / do manly tasks for them.

 

You never met a woman who already had a man for that stuff--a happy, confident woman--who you just "clicked" with at work or at school?

 

Or woman you click with when YOU are very happy in a relationship?

 

In every job, my H has had a handful of coworkers that he considered friends, and usually one or two of them are women. One of them even threw me an "office baby shower" when I was pregnant! (sweet)

 

Maybe it is because he genuinely likes women, and I genuinely like men. In our real life, there is no battle of the sexes going down.

[PlumPrincess]

IMO, spending time with somebody that you know likes you, is leading them on.

I remember this discussion I had with a friend years ago. I said I wasn't sure if men and women can really be friends. He then called me narrow-minded and that of course men and women can be friends. A couple of years later, he accused me of playing games with him, because I should have known that he had feelings for me.

 

That really taught me a lesson.

 

I recommend that you assume some responsibility for yourself and leave the girl alone.

[grkBoy]

Men and women can be friends if...

 

1) Both sides have no attraction to one another...so one side isn't just doing the "friend" thing hoping the other person will "come around".

 

2) Women aren't seeking the guy friends as a boyfriend substitute...so she'll literally treat the guy friend as a boyfriend, but she won't be intimate with him.

 

Trust me guys...if you feel like you're dating the girl but she won't let you kiss her, bang her, or even use any term remotely close to "dating", but you're both out on what looks and feels like dates...then she's using you.

 

Chances are you're the guy she can talk to and hold a conversation with, while some other guy is the one she wishes had your personality, but she still sleeps with him

 

I've seen some women even bring their "guy friends" home for the holidays because the parents would give her hell if they saw who her actual boyfriend was.

[phineas]

You never met a woman who already had a man for that stuff--a happy, confident woman--who you just "clicked" with at work or at school?

 

Or woman you click with when YOU are very happy in a relationship?

 

In every job, my H has had a handful of coworkers that he considered friends, and usually one or two of them are women. One of them even threw me an "office baby shower" when I was pregnant! (sweet)

 

Maybe it is because he genuinely likes women, and I genuinely like men. In our real life, there is no battle of the sexes going down.

 

I get along great with women at work. we work together VERY well because I give credit when credit is due & have no issues with a woman being able to do something better than me on the job.

 

I work with a lot of other guys who can't handle that. As if they have to prove no woman can do his job as good as him. LOL!

 

Waste of energy. I'd rather work with a woman to get something done in a few hrs than spend all day hammering away at it by myself. Plus working with women is fun.

 

However, the few times I did hang out with them after work it was at their request under the guise of friendship however, they expected to become a priority over my other friends & they started pulling the crap I mentioned I mentioned above. EVERY TIME.

 

So in my world, women only want to be friends with guys who want them.

Once they figure out they can't dangle the sex carrot to get me to do stuff for them they fade away.

 

And believe me, these women own houses & looking for a free handyman when I haven't even met their family. It's messed up. Seriously messed up.

 

But, this was when I was over-weight. Once I got my fat-ass in shape not a single woman has tried to be "friends" with me. Go figure.

 

I haven't changed the way I interact with women at work at all.

I'm still respectful & still joke around with them the same way.

 

I don't believe it's coincidence at all.

[phineas]

Men and women can be friends if...

 

1) Both sides have no attraction to one another...so one side isn't just doing the "friend" thing hoping the other person will "come around".

 

2) Women aren't seeking the guy friends as a boyfriend substitute...so she'll literally treat the guy friend as a boyfriend, but she won't be intimate with him.

 

Trust me guys...if you feel like you're dating the girl but she won't let you kiss her, bang her, or even use any term remotely close to "dating", but you're both out on what looks and feels like dates...then she's using you.

 

Chances are you're the guy she can talk to and hold a conversation with, while some other guy is the one she wishes had your personality, but she still sleeps with him

 

I've seen some women even bring their "guy friends" home for the holidays because the parents would give her hell if they saw who her actual boyfriend was.

 

Yep. And when I was fatter I was also #2 both figuratively & literally. LOL!

 

I believe it kept happening because at my age there are either divorced women or the above women who never married & that is the reason why their pushing 40 & never married.

[carhill]

Once they figure out they can't dangle the sex carrot to get me to do stuff for them they fade away.

 

And believe me, these women own houses & looking for a free handyman when I haven't even met their family. It's messed up. Seriously messed up.

 

But, this was when I was over-weight. Once I got my fat-ass in shape not a single woman has tried to be "friends" with me. Go figure.

 

I haven't changed the way I interact with women at work at all.

I'm still respectful & still joke around with them the same way.

 

I don't believe it's coincidence at all.

 

We need to have a drink sometime. My bet is you have a wide-ranging skillset too. Hoovers glom onto that like stink on shyte.

 

I even see those Hoover'esque propensities pop up in otherwise seemingly generous wives when their H's aren't paying them enough attention or doing enough 'honey-do's' for them. I see it every day. Boundaries man, that's all I can say. Otherwise, they'll just grind you up like beef through a meat grinder.

 

I hate having to get 'mean' with women but sometimes that's the only way. Set 'em back on their ass and you get respect, or they leave. Either is fine with me.

[Ross MwcFan]

Me and this girl was platonic friends for 9 years and talked on the phone all the time.

 

Keep in mind that a platonic friendship is a little different.

 

1. If you see each other it's only in public

2. You don't talk on the phone after midnight

3. There is no hitting on one another

 

 

 

So that's why our friendship lasted 9 years. It ended after I was laid off and she complained about not getting a BONUS and I felt since i was jobless that her BONUS rant was a little inconsiderate

 

You ended the friendship just because you thought her complaining about not getting a bonus was a little inconsiderate?

[somedude81]

I think that's just one of the things men should be able to do. Exercise emotional control when they need to. I don't fall for my female friends. I might want to **** them, I might even think about them romantically from time to time, but I never let it cloud my better judgement.

 

But like you say, that could just be me, and other guys find that difficult. I'm conscious of my lack of confidence when it comes to dating girls, so I don't start holding out hope that they will see the real me at some point if I keep continuing to display low confidence. That was how I developed the ability to not fall for the girls. Yeah, I think about them sexually, but that's that. No messy feelings, nothing like that.

Being able to exercise emotional control is a completely different thing from not letting myself fall for a woman.

 

I've basically fallen for every girl I spent a significant amount of time with, some more deeply than others.

This is because you don't have another focus for your romantic interests. You are romantically frustrated, so of course you would find it incredibly frustrating to be friends with a woman who does not share your romantic interests.

 

It wouldn't be like that if you had a girlfriend of your own.

That's 100% correct.

 

But I've never had a girlfriend, am completely desperate for one, and can't understand why my female friends never want to become my girlfriend.

 

I just keep feeling like a failure/loser because the girls I like never like me back.

 

So yeah, if I had a GF, I would most likely not have problems falling for my friends. Sadly, it's much easier for me to make a friend than a GF.

He shouldn't have hope. If the girl has made it clear that she has no romantic feelings for him and she only sees him as a friend, he needs to accept the fact that there is no hope for a romantic relationship. Clinging to false hope is just being in denial.

 

There are guys who can accept that they will never be more than friends with a girl. If you are not one of those guys, then you can't be friends with a girl you have a crush on. It's up to you to know what kind of guy you are. Either accept her as a friend or cut contact.

Love isn't that logical.

 

I know I didn't have a chance with her, but I felt the end result would be worth it, so I kept trying and trying. And there is more to it than that.

 

Frankly, it's just really hard for me to give up on something that I really like.

 

 

But she doesn't want to date him! Why is that so hard to understand? She likes him as a friend but she's not sexually attracted to him. Are you saying she should date him anyway, just to make him happy?

Just give him a shot and be 100% sure that nothing is there.

 

I've learned a lot about women from reading these boards. IMO women seem to have a very weird notion of what they want and are looking for. This thread is a good example.

 

If the guy is a good friend, not bad looking and the friendship is something you want to save, why not try? Honestly, if the guy isn't good enough to date, why be his friend at all?

I'm only friends with people I like, who also like me. If they don't treat me with respect, then of course we wouldn't be friends.

This is what I'm talking about.

 

If me and a girl both like each other, I treat her with respect and make her laugh, what else does she need?

 

Of course it's the whole chemistry and attraction aspect that has doomed me to life of loneliness.

I remember this discussion I had with a friend years ago. I said I wasn't sure if men and women can really be friends. He then called me narrow-minded and that of course men and women can be friends. A couple of years later, he accused me of playing games with him, because I should have known that he had feelings for me.

 

That really taught me a lesson.

Yeah, he wasn't being honest. Though there is also a chance that he fell for you in the years that passed.

 

Men can fall for their female friends, you know?

I recommend that you assume some responsibility for yourself and leave the girl alone.

Assume some responsibility? Why is it all on me? She's a grown woman.

[verhrzn]

I'm late to the party, but I can say with 100% certainty men and women can be friends. I also agree with other posters that say it can only happen if there isn't physical attraction on either side, and both of the people have good boundaries.

 

For examples, I have lots of male friends, but I'd never ask them to come over and do "manly" chores around my apartment without offering a free meal/a free drink/a buddy favor in return. That's how I view friendship working-a two way street built on respect and mutual help.

 

I've had tons of guy friends over the years, and not a single one of them have ever confessed they have feelings for me. I personally think that it's because I'm unattractive (huzzah, finally a place where being unattractive is actually a benefit!) but it's also possible that it's because I'd never DREAM of treating my guy friends as anything but how I feel about them.

 

I don't flirt with my guy friends, I don't treat them as a "boyfriend substitute", I encourage and try to help them with women... I treat them exactly as I do my female friends, while keeping in mind they are male. And I think it's worked out splendidly for all of us.

 

Frankly, if a guy remains friends with a girl in hopes of sleeping with her eventually, or if a girl is friends with a guy but is consistently crossing the friend boundaries.... then I don't think that's an actual "friendship." I think it's manipulation (on both sides) by people with unhealthy boundaries. So framing the "Can women and men by friends?" from the angle of those kind of people creates a false question. They were never friends in the first place.

[Ilovewater]

If the guy is a good friend, not bad looking and the friendship is something you want to save, why not try?

 

Because that's manipulation and selfishness on the guy's part.... Why does the woman have date a friend she's not romantically interested in just to make him happy? If this man actually respects her, then he'll respect her boundaries and not push himself onto her.

 

Honestly, if the guy isn't good enough to date, why be his friend at all? This is what I'm talking about.

 

I don't make friends with men because I want to date them. I wouldn't date most of my guy friends even though we're close, get a long really well, and have things in common. That's not enough to make me want to date them. They have certain traits and characteristics that I can overlook as a friend but not as a partner. For instance, one guy is very nice, sweet, and intelligent. However, he wants a more traditional relationship in that he wants to be the breadwinner, and he wants his wife to be a housewife. Our fundamental values are different, and we'll never make good partners. However, we've been great friends for years.

 

If a woman doesn't want to date you, respect her wish. It's not her fault that you fell for her. She didn't ask you to. It is YOUR responsibility to keep your emotions under control. You shouldn't expect her to date you just because you think you'll make a great partner for her.

[carhill]

I notice that there are few threads on LS about women becoming frustrated with and/or ambivalent about remaining friends with good men they are attracted to but where the man isn't attracted to them. I think that is instructive. Think about it. In fact, in real life, I've never met or befriended such a woman. Is that a coincidence?

 

The conclusion to accept is that, generally, no woman will ever progress a platonic friendship with a man whom she is attracted to. Ergo, looking around, men, any woman who is or considers you a friend is not attracted to you. Good rule of thumb. 100% success rate rule of thumb in my 52.

[Anela]

EXACTLY. I have a ton of friends who are typical athlete jerks, treat the girls they date like crap and so I would never in a million years date them. But they'll still come by the bar to watch hockey with me if I'm bored, or be there at 3am to give me a ride home if I'm too drunk to drive or whatever. We are just -friends-.

 

Right. A friend of mine had her heart broken horribly, after getting involved with someone who was a best friend to her for thirteen + years. He's a great friend, and at the time, thought he was the best man she knew. He's a terrible boyfriend, though. He changed once they were romantically involved.

[somedude81]

I don't make friends with men because I want to date them. I wouldn't date most of my guy friends even though we're close, get a long really well, and have things in common. That's not enough to make me want to date them. They have certain traits and characteristics that I can overlook as a friend but not as a partner. For instance, one guy is very nice, sweet, and intelligent. However, he wants a more traditional relationship in that he wants to be the breadwinner, and he wants his wife to be a housewife. Our fundamental values are different, and we'll never make good partners. However, we've been great friends for years.

And yet a woman would date a man she has nothing in common with, fights all the time, just because he's exciting...

 

If a woman doesn't want to date you, respect her wish. It's not her fault that you fell for her. She didn't ask you to. It is YOUR responsibility to keep your emotions under control. You shouldn't expect her to date you just because you think you'll make a great partner for her.

And it's not my fault either. I don't choose who I fall for.

 

My biggest problem is that I want to date the women I'm "close, get a long really well, and have things in common." Guess I should be looking elsewhere.

[xxoo]

The conclusion to accept is that, generally, no woman will ever progress a platonic friendship with a man whom she is attracted to. Ergo, looking around, men, any woman who is or considers you a friend is not attracted to you.

 

Unless one of you is in a relationship.

 

If she's in a relationship, or you are, how would you know if she is attracted to you or not? Why would it even be discussed? It is irrelevant.

 

Unrequited love is a different story, and always painful.

[cerridwen]

Yeah, yes we can. But like all relationships it takes both people being on the same page.

 

I completely agree.

 

I personally have yet to meet a woman who truly wants to be friends.

...

That sucks.

We women can sometimes be great friends, especially when we've grown up around brothers and had male friends from a young age.

[joystickd]

We women can sometimes be great friends, especially when we've grown up around brothers and had male friends from a young age.

 

Lol! That's is untrue. Women still selling that bulls**t.