Why Bash The W?

[seren]

Have to say that the OW didn't bash me at all, acted crazy after a while and still does now and again, but after H told me about the A and her contacting me for help to get away from her H's abuse, I viewed her more as a woman who had been hurt than an OW. if that makes any sense, same as a lot of the posts on LS, if you (general) come simply to hurl abuse or trash other people, it says far more about you (again general) than the person being attacked. I am sure that for those who were told one thing, only to have it turned on its head on D Day, the reaction may very well be to believe that the BS holds the sword of Damolces over the WS head, if not, how can it make any sense after being told the marriage was crap, the BS not interested in sex, intimacy, is threatening who knows what. The OW/OM has been fed all this, believes it, believes the ILY's in much the same way BS are still told they are loved, have sex, make plans etc, only difference is that the BS is not aware there is anything going on, other than their marriage.

 

It would take a saint to not harbour ill feelings to the other, however, this usually passess once the dust settles and more rational thought takes place. Although I think for the person who sees themselves as used and/or abandoned there is a deal more animosity to the one who is seen to have 'won', although as an XBS, I rather felt that my H was the winner and not me, after all I was just being who I had always been and wasn't aware I was in some sort of competition with anyone, still don't.

 

As for the slating Spark has had, not necessary, not warranted and way off the mark. There is no 'I got him' rather that he managed to hang on to her and should think himself dammed lucky he has.

 

Many BS open the door on D Day and say on you go, the stereotype of BS crying, pleading and whatever is, IME, rarely the case. Anger fuels D Day, there are far more doors flung open than nailed shut. I can see how, that someone who has been told that a marriage is one way, that have been promised the moon on a stick and that the BS is a raddled old boot wonder WTF is going on and, as the WS has fed them this can only think it is the fault of the raddled old boot BS that they are not leaving - I rather think that the WTF should be directed toward the MM who has fed them this and would wonder if the BS was so bad why they didn't take D day as the opportunity to leave. Thing is, BS and OW/OM have far more in common than they think, both have sucked up the lies about the other from the MM all for keeping the status quo. I am no raddled old sexless, money grabbing old boot, no more than the OW is a predatory tart. I blame my H for the A, have had a go at him and others for degenerating her. I hope she affords me the same courtesy.

Edited December 14, 2011 by seren

[MyApology]

Wow, all the different viewpoints are interesting. I have never harbored any, not even a tiny amount of jealousy toward BS. (May come from the fact that we are complete opposite in every way)

I actually feel sympathy for her. I was curious about her from the information he shared, but that was it. I feel bad for her because here is a man who is using everyone around him. He uses her for the comfort of having a woman wash his clothes, keep up a household, and raise the children. He is using OW for candy. I am now empathizing with her in that I would feel betrayed and horrible if my husband was taking advantage of me, my going through all the motions of the hard labor it takes to keep a household, and here comes a husband grinning and watching me do all this, while he is infatuated with another woman for completely different reasons. Also looking into the face of OW while standing next to wife, actually planning this on many occassions, is one that I will never gain an understanding of.

Yes, I can see why the BS would feel immense anger.

[RecordProducer]

The point is if all women worldwide decided in union to never have an affair

Would that make you happy? If your husband approached a woman and wanted to cheat on you with her... but she said NO to him... would everything be alright then?

 

I know things are not black and white and women can be b*tches. All OW here will tell you about their innocence but I've seen with my own eyes how women consciously tried to break me and my ex apart when we were married. E.g., a woman from the other side of the country, whom he hadn't seen in 15 years, who was sending him lovey-dovey cards and gifts, told me "Go on with your life!" when I told her "He's MY husband, he's living with me and sleeping with me!"

 

Indeed, we were separated at the time, but for a few weeks we were spending time together and we were still officially married and sleeping in the same bed (albeit I had my own apartment). But, what difference does it make to her? She should have apologized, felt ashamed, and backed off when I told her this on the phone. She was just a friend, not the OW in any sense. He didn't even like her as a woman. The thing is her husband had died of cancer and she reappeared after 15 years of no-contact, telling my ex, just out of the blue, what a wonderful person he'd always been. Sure enough, after a few weeks of talking on the phone every day, he ends up lending her $50,000! She is a physician, btw.

 

Another woman invited my ex to trips and also gave him presents right after he told her he was trying to make our marriage work.

 

To summarize my point, even though I know women can be garbage like these two, I would only be happy knowing that my partner would not cheat on me because he doesn't want to and because he loves me. In fact, I would consider an unsuccessful (conscious) attempt to cheat as identical to infidelity.

 

Wow, all the different viewpoints are interesting.

The viewpoints are not different - it's the positions that are different. What's sad to me is that the OW never thinks that she could be the BS. Edited December 14, 2011 by RecordProducer

[LadyGrey]

Wow, all the different viewpoints are interesting. I have never harbored any, not even a tiny amount of jealousy toward BS. (May come from the fact that we are complete opposite in every way)

 

 

Are you sure about that? Your prior posts certainly illustrated a lot of "something" you were harboring toward the BS? There was a lot of put downs, I think to make yourself feel superior.

 

I actually feel sympathy for her. I was curious about her from the information he shared, but that was it. I feel bad for her because here is a man who is using everyone around him. He uses her for the comfort of having a woman wash his clothes, keep up a household, and raise the children. He is using OW for candy. I am now empathizing with her in that I would feel betrayed and horrible if my husband was taking advantage of me, my going through all the motions of the hard labor it takes to keep a household, and here comes a husband grinning and watching me do all this, while he is infatuated with another woman for completely different reasons. Also looking into the face of OW while standing next to wife, actually planning this on many occassions, is one that I will never gain an understanding of.

Yes, I can see why the BS would feel immense anger.

 

I think you are empathizing to a degree but I still get the feeling you are feeling superior in some ways or at least that is what your words convey imo.

 

I have learned that competition between women over a man, is such a waste of time and a waste of head space. Men who set this up, have fragile little egos and probably tiny little d*^$s. :D They need to feed themselves or else they can't survive.

[RecordProducer]

I would have loved to be cheated on by my ex-husband: it would've allowed me to express all the anger I had for him on him (and the OW) - and I would've been applauded for that by everyone. I mean, he was an as$hole who pissed the shyt out of me and humiliated me on a daily basis anyway. But when I wanted to work on our marital issues, I was considered a nagging bytch.

 

Being cheated on would have given me the chance to chew his head off AND feel good about it.

[Brokenlady]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyApology

The point is if all women worldwide decided in union to never have an affair

[\QUOTE]

 

Isn't thus tantamount to raising the white flag and just declaring boys will be boys? I agree with recordproducer that intent matters. I think however this is just as important to ow's as bs's- the ow wants the mm to decide to be with her, not have the ow by default bc the bs kicks him out.

 

RP- I was the OW, now the W, and I acknowledge he could turn me into a bs. But, so could any other man. It's not something I particularly worry about, much as I don't set out every morning thinking about wrecking my car. I do think he would have a harder time putting one over on me, only bc I know what track-covering methods he used before. Not impossible. Just harder. The whole idea though is that unlike people who are still in an undiscovered A, we have dealt with the consequences and come out the other side. There's no mystery, we know what's behind that door of either if us decided to stray. I like to think we've grown and learned enough to make that posiibity extremely unlikely.

[MyApology]

I think you are empathizing to a degree but I still get the feeling you are feeling superior in some ways or at least that is what your words convey imo.

 

I have learned that competition between women over a man, is such a waste of time and a waste of head space. Men who set this up, have fragile little egos and probably tiny little d*^$s. :D They need to feed themselves or else they can't survive.

 

 

There is no competition. I do not wish for him to be or become anything other than what he has been for me. He brings his unhappiness to the table, even when he knows it is not necessary.

It is up to him to make the choice to stop the craziness and figure it out for himself.

[ladydesigner]

I think you are empathizing to a degree but I still get the feeling you are feeling superior in some ways or at least that is what your words convey imo.

 

I have learned that competition between women over a man, is such a waste of time and a waste of head space. Men who set this up, have fragile little egos and probably tiny little d*^$s. :D They need to feed themselves or else they can't survive.

 

 

Hahaha. You said it better than I could. It was the bolded that I was trying to get across in my post. This is exactly how I think LadyGrey. I think women need to team up and knock those little fragile egos off the pedestal we put them on:laugh: They don't deserve the OW or the BS.

[ladydesigner]

There is no competition. I do not wish for him to be or become anything other than what he has been for me. He brings his unhappiness to the table, even when he knows it is not necessary.

It is up to him to make the choice to stop the craziness and figure it out for himself.

 

Yes but what will you think if he does not become what he has been to you? What if he does go back and choose his BS?

[MyApology]

Yes but what will you think if he does not become what he has been to you? What if he does go back and choose his BS?

 

He is with BS. What they have I would not wish on any enemy! Who wants that. The only man for me in this type of situation would be a strong man, who could have the balls and take action to put his life forward toward health choices and happiness, instead of using other women to replace what is missing from his marriage. He lies to both.

[ladydesigner]

He is with BS. What they have I would not wish on any enemy! Who wants that. The only man for me in this type of situation would be a strong man, who could have the balls and take action to put his life forward toward health choices and happiness, instead of using other women to replace what is missing from his marriage. He lies to both.

 

Well girl go find him! You deserve better;)

[MissBee]

Would that make you happy? If your husband approached a woman and wanted to cheat on you with her... but she said NO to him... would everything be alright then?

 

I know things are not black and white and women can be b*tches. All OW here will tell you about their innocence but I've seen with my own eyes how women consciously tried to break me and my ex apart when we were married. E.g., a woman from the other side of the country, whom he hadn't seen in 15 years, who was sending him lovey-dovey cards and gifts, told me "Go on with your life!" when I told her "He's MY husband, he's living with me and sleeping with me!"

 

Indeed, we were separated at the time, but for a few weeks we were spending time together and we were still officially married and sleeping in the same bed (albeit I had my own apartment). But, what difference does it make to her? She should have apologized, felt ashamed, and backed off when I told her this on the phone. She was just a friend, not the OW in any sense. He didn't even like her as a woman. The thing is her husband had died of cancer and she reappeared after 15 years of no-contact, telling my ex, just out of the blue, what a wonderful person he'd always been. Sure enough, after a few weeks of talking on the phone every day, he ends up lending her $50,000! She is a physician, btw.

 

Another woman invited my ex to trips and also gave him presents right after he told her he was trying to make our marriage work.

To summarize my point, even though I know women can be garbage like these two, I would only be happy knowing that my partner would not cheat on me because he doesn't want to and because he loves me. In fact, I would consider an unsuccessful (conscious) attempt to cheat as identical to infidelity.

 

The viewpoints are not different - it's the positions that are different. What's sad to me is that the OW never thinks that she could be the BS.

 

The bolded is totally how I feel!

 

My husband trying to cheat but no one wanting to cheat with him is not only pathetic but no less insulting to me and our relationship.

 

But I do get what MyApology is saying...it's really a two way street. Her point that if women for example decided they weren't going to cheat. Say it was possible that all women worldwide decided they would not....then maybe those men who should be divorcing, who truly are cowards who want to have their cake and eat it too will be more pressured to decide to divorce or work on their relationship as they won't have that cozy in-between place of an extramarital relationship to help them avoid their problems. They would have to sit with that desire and come to terms with it in some other way as they won't have that outlet. It's not gonna happen though...but I get the point she is making. Each person at the end of the day has to be responsible for their own actions and choices. A wife can't be blamed for the husband's cheating and vice-versa and a OW can't blame the wife for trapping him and the wife can't blame the OW for seducing him...each INDIVIDUAL has to be the one who is choosing not to go down that path for themselves.

[RecordProducer]

Say it was possible that all women worldwide decided they would not....then maybe those men who should be divorcing, who truly are cowards who want to have their cake and eat it too will be more pressured to decide to divorce or work on their relationship as they won't have that cozy in-between place of an extramarital relationship to help them avoid their problems. They would have to sit with that desire and come to terms with it in some other way as they won't have that outlet.

Oh, I absolutely agree with you. The OW offers understanding after being treated like a queen - unlike the wife who offers nagging after being treated like a piece of furniture. And the OW offers hot sex because she hasn't spent years with the same man, watching him in all sorts of unromantic situations.

 

Both sexes have unrealistic and selfish expectations of what they should get from a marriage - and girlfriends and boyfriends on the side fuel those expectations by providing an illusion that the cheater can have it all: a cozy two-parent household for their kids, untouched marital assets, a great family picture on their work desks - AND passion and romance on the side. OW + BS= perfect woman. And in reality, OW support unofficial bigamy.

[beenburned]

The solution is for the wife to send H to the OW to live out their little fantasy!

[skywriter]

I'm very level headed:) I'm also very pro-woman, wanting all women to demand the very best for themselves. I would give the same advice if it was MW having an affair.

 

It doesn't matter if you're being betrayed, or in an affair- there is always the comment element of THE GUY in the middle. I often find in these forums that HE gets off, while the rest of us fight...

 

We are all accountable for our own actions. My ex-H included. I wasn't a perfect wife, he wasn't a perfect H... The OW wasn't perfect either.

 

It just seems more often than not that in this forum that us women want to combat one another while our guy sits back and enjoys the perks.

 

The MM is just as accountable as the rest of us. The wife for knowing what is going on and choosing to stay, the OW for choosing to to stay when he won't leave his wife, and HIM mostly for being a prick and cheating.

 

 

OMG!!!! This post is brilliant!

[skywriter]

And you honestly think that 90% of people who are cheating don't love their spouse? I disagree. And just because the guy said he doesn't love his wife and the M is over you believed him? A cheater? You believed words coming out of THAT mouth?

 

 

Depends how you define love. I say, the MM "loves", himself, first and foremost. If he has anything else left after that to share with a W or an OW, you can label that however it suits you.

[donnamaybe]

Depends how you define love. I say, the MM "loves", himself, first and foremost. If he has anything else left after that to share with a W or an OW, you can label that however it suits you.

Yes, in the moments during an A, the WS is placing him/herself above all else. However, are you trying to tell every BS who has reconciled with their spouse that their spouse doesn't love them or didn't love them during the A?

[skywriter]

Yes, in the moments during an A, the WS is placing him/herself above all else. However, are you trying to tell every BS who has reconciled with their spouse that their spouse doesn't love them or didn't love them during the A?

 

 

That would be impossible for me to do that. It would be presumptious of me . What I am saying is that a selfish person loves in the way that they are capable of loving.

[TigerCub]

Yes, in the moments during an A, the WS is placing him/herself above all else. However, are you trying to tell every BS who has reconciled with their spouse that their spouse doesn't love them or didn't love them during the A?

 

Personally, I agree. I think that the cheater still must have feelings towards the spouse they are cheating on, or else why would they still be there?

 

 

The interesting thing is though...on the infidelity forum if a cheater goes on about how they love two people and how they really do love the spouse they are cheating on, most people rip into them saying things such as

 

"You don't treat someone you love that way"

"You only love yourself"

"You don't love your spouse, you only love your selfish desires"

 

etc...

and no, I don't have links to these specifics, but I'm sure we all have seen them.

 

So maybe it is reasonable to see it as - the cheater loves their spouse, but they only love them so much, because if they loved them fully, they would never want to mistreat them so badly.

 

I dunno, but honestly that kind of "love" isn't full and honest, and I'm not saying that to be hurtful to anyone.

 

They may love them, hence, the not leaving

but its certainly not an honest and selfless kind of love.

[skywriter]

Personally, I agree. I think that the cheater still must have feelings towards the spouse they are cheating on, or else why would they still be there?

 

 

The interesting thing is though...on the infidelity forum if a cheater goes on about how they love two people and how they really do love the spouse they are cheating on, most people rip into them saying things such as

 

"You don't treat someone you love that way"

"You only love yourself"

"You don't love your spouse, you only love your selfish desires"

 

etc...

and no, I don't have links to these specifics, but I'm sure we all have seen them.

 

So maybe it is reasonable to see it as - the cheater loves their spouse, but they only love them so much, because if they loved them fully, they would never want to mistreat them so badly.

 

I dunno, but honestly that kind of "love" isn't full and honest, and I'm not saying that to be hurtful to anyone.

 

They may love them, hence, the not leaving

but its certainly not an honest and selfless kind of love.

 

 

 

Yes Tigercub,

 

This is what I was trying to express!

[donnamaybe]

Personally, I agree. I think that the cheater still must have feelings towards the spouse they are cheating on, or else why would they still be there?

 

 

The interesting thing is though...on the infidelity forum if a cheater goes on about how they love two people and how they really do love the spouse they are cheating on, most people rip into them saying things such as

 

"You don't treat someone you love that way"

"You only love yourself"

"You don't love your spouse, you only love your selfish desires"

 

etc...

and no, I don't have links to these specifics, but I'm sure we all have seen them.

 

So maybe it is reasonable to see it as - the cheater loves their spouse, but they only love them so much, because if they loved them fully, they would never want to mistreat them so badly.

 

I dunno, but honestly that kind of "love" isn't full and honest, and I'm not saying that to be hurtful to anyone.

 

They may love them, hence, the not leaving

but its certainly not an honest and selfless kind of love.

And if the cheater repents and takes steps to "fix" their broken inside and stays with their spouse? Are you saying, for example, that the many BS's who have reconciled have spouses that don't love them properly? If I were one of the many folks on here who have reconciled after an A I would be pretty upset to read declarations that my spouse is incapable of changing his ways.

 

Sometimes it isn't "selfishness" that causes a person to go off and do something like that. Sometimes it's just plain old "screwedupedness" which can be rectified via therapy.

[MissBee]

Personally, I agree. I think that the cheater still must have feelings towards the spouse they are cheating on, or else why would they still be there?

 

 

The interesting thing is though...on the infidelity forum if a cheater goes on about how they love two people and how they really do love the spouse they are cheating on, most people rip into them saying things such as

 

"You don't treat someone you love that way"

"You only love yourself"

"You don't love your spouse, you only love your selfish desires"

 

etc...

and no, I don't have links to these specifics, but I'm sure we all have seen them.

 

So maybe it is reasonable to see it as - the cheater loves their spouse, but they only love them so much, because if they loved them fully, they would never want to mistreat them so badly.

 

I dunno, but honestly that kind of "love" isn't full and honest, and I'm not saying that to be hurtful to anyone.

They may love them, hence, the not leaving

but its certainly not an honest and selfless kind of love.

 

This is true.

 

My dad got two women pregnant before he was with my mom...and it came to light he got one women pregnant WHILE with her smh. However, he is married to her and not these other people. He "chose" her. He has had countless OW....but has never chosen to leave to be with them and always comes back begging and crying (witnessed this one myself) when he is found out. They "reconcile"......and the shenanigans continue.

 

I am sure he he "loves her" and has claimed the best years of his life are with her and us and blah blah but that type of love is certainly not honest and selfless and certainly not the type of "love" I want.

 

Rightfully, my dad has never actually fixed anything. So I do think it is possible to have a genuine reconciliation in which things do change and you grow as a person and therefore grow in love....but for some, that doesn't happen.They just remain together with the appearance that things have changed....or with it being obvious nothing has changed.

[nofool4u]

The solution is for the wife to send H to the OW to live out their little fantasy!

 

I agree. I told my xW that I'd pack her bags and run her over to OM's house. Told her if he is gonna screw her, he can be the one to take care of her.

 

Funny how OM didn't want that though.

[donnamaybe]

This is true.

 

My dad got two women pregnant before he was with my mom...and it came to light he got one women pregnant WHILE with her smh. However, he is married to her and not these other people. He "chose" her. He has had countless OW....but has never chosen to leave to be with them and always comes back begging and crying (witnessed this one myself) when he is found out. They "reconcile"......and the shenanigans continue.

 

I am sure he he "loves her" and has claimed the best years of his life are with her and us and blah blah but that type of love is certainly not honest and selfless and certainly not the type of "love" I want.

 

Rightfully, my dad has never actually fixed anything. So I do think it is possible to have a genuine reconciliation in which things do change and you grow as a person and therefore grow in love....but for some, that doesn't happen.They just remain together with the appearance that things have changed....or with it being obvious nothing has changed.

Right. And you have differentiated between the two types of cheaters: The cake eater and the truly repentant who seeks to change.

 

When I encounter situations here where there is someone waiting for FAR too long for an MM/MW to make a choice, my advice is to end the A. Why? It will quickly become apparent whether the AP is truly that important to the cheater. If they can't live without you, they will choose you. If not, they will simply find another OW/OM.

 

IDK about anyone else, but if I were in that situation I would want to know if I were disposable or truly important.

[MissBee]

Right. And you have differentiated between the two types of cheaters: The cake eater and the truly repentant who seeks to change.

 

When I encounter situations here where there is someone waiting for FAR too long for an MM/MW to make a choice, my advice is to end the A. Why? It will quickly become apparent whether the AP is truly that important to the cheater. If they can't live without you, they will choose you. If not, they will simply find another OW/OM.

 

IDK about anyone else, but if I were in that situation I would want to know if I were disposable or truly important.

 

Yea...and the flip side of the scenario is that for my mom and BSs like her, it can be argued that you're not disposable, as years have passed and this person keeps getting different OW but you're still there and they don't leave you and will cry, apologize and do whatever (for a certain time anyway) so that you don't leave. But really....what does this mean? I do believe some women take it as love and I do think some can turn a blind eye feeling comfort in the fact that OW come and go...but they are still the "reigning queen". For me though, that is not enough and the same scrutiny has to be applied to BSs in this scenario as it should be to OW in ongoing As, waiting.

 

Everyone deserves someone who will love, honor, respect and not hurt them, especially continuously. All women and men should look at their relationship: marriage, A, dating and really see with their eyes open if they are being loved, honored and respected. That's really the hallmark of a good relationship. Just because someone marries you or stays with you etc does not mean they are capable of loving, honoring and respecting you and if they can't do that (like my dad can't) is their kind of "love" or the fact that they don't see you as disposable really important?